[MediaWiki-l] Mediawiki virtual file system. Call for feedback.

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[MediaWiki-l] Mediawiki virtual file system. Call for feedback.

Alexey Klimovich
This post was updated on .
Hi, everyone!
I want to call for community feedback about my idea:

Problem
=======
When gearing up site based on Mediawiki, especially, with Semantic
Mediawiki and Semantic Forms extensions installed, we encounter with
need of Mediawiki customization for project-specified requirements. This
includes two main steps:

1). Create wiki structure with pages, categories, templates, forms, etc.
2). Install & configure mediawiki extensions and possibly write new ones
for site customization.

There is a problem. Crating process of Mediawiki based site is inconsistent!
One things we should do in IDE, another things - on site. Jumping from
one window to another.

Idea
=======
Now, lets imagine: what if we can work with Mediawiki pages as if they
be normal text files in our system? We gain advantages:

- Edit wiki pages in favorite text editor (like SublimeText, Vim, etc.)
- Edit wiki pages right in your favorite IDE, near Mediawiki php files.

And even more in future:

- Zip or copy wiki pages to computer. Edit offline. Upload changes later.
- Use any native program to work with pages like files: search&replace,
syntax highlight, auto-complete in IDE, etc.


Solution
========
My offer is to create tool which will mount Mediawiki pages as files in
local virtual drive. Virtual file system. MediawikiFS.

Summary
========
I have already coded very early working prototype (only for Windows yet).
You can test it here: http://mediawikifs.com

You can read more information and support my idea and proposal at:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/MediawikiFS

Feel free to ask questions and features if interested!




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Re: Mediawiki virtual file system. Call for feedback.

Tim Starling-2
On 21/09/13 05:53, Alexey Klimovich wrote:
> Now, lets imagine: what if we can work with Mediawiki pages as if they
> be normal text files in our system? We gain advantages:
>
> - Edit wiki pages in favorite text editor (like SublimeText, Vim, etc.)
> - Edit wiki pages right in your favorite IDE, near Mediawiki php files.
>

We already have http://wikipediafs.sourceforge.net/ for that.
Presumably if a lot of people wanted this feature, there would be more
downloads from SourceForge:

<http://sourceforge.net/projects/wikipediafs/files/stats/timeline?dates=2013-01-01+to+2013-09-23>

-- Tim Starling


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Re: Mediawiki virtual file system. Call for feedback.

Dmitrii Kouznetsov
Automatic saveng of all pages as text files looks attractive:
the the text remain available even if MySQL falls down.
Do you think it is better that mediawiki software?

On Mon, 23 Sep 2013, Tim Starling wrote:

> On 21/09/13 05:53, Alexey Klimovich wrote:
>> Now, lets imagine: what if we can work with Mediawiki pages as if they
>> be normal text files in our system? We gain advantages:
>>
>> - Edit wiki pages in favorite text editor (like SublimeText, Vim, etc.)
>> - Edit wiki pages right in your favorite IDE, near Mediawiki php files.
>>
>
> We already have http://wikipediafs.sourceforge.net/ for that.
> Presumably if a lot of people wanted this feature, there would be more
> downloads from SourceForge:
>
> <http://sourceforge.net/projects/wikipediafs/files/stats/timeline?dates=2013-01-01+to+2013-09-23>
>
> -- Tim Starling
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> MediaWiki-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l

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Re: Mediawiki virtual file system. Call for feedback.

Camponez
In reply to this post by Tim Starling-2
On Sep 22, 2013 11:34 PM, "Tim Starling" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 21/09/13 05:53, Alexey Klimovich wrote:
> > Now, lets imagine: what if we can work with Mediawiki pages as if they
> > be normal text files in our system? We gain advantages:
> >
> > - Edit wiki pages in favorite text editor (like SublimeText, Vim, etc.)
> > - Edit wiki pages right in your favorite IDE, near Mediawiki php files.
> >

I use a Firefox addon (it's all text) to edit wiki pages on an external
editor
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Re: Mediawiki virtual file system. Call for feedback.

gale
In reply to this post by Tim Starling-2

| From Tim Starling <[hidden email]>
| Mon, 23 Sep 2013 12:33:34 +1000
| Subject: [MediaWiki-l] Mediawiki virtual file system. Call for feedback.

> On 21/09/13 05:53, Alexey Klimovich wrote:
> > Now, lets imagine: what if we can work with Mediawiki pages as if they
> > be normal text files in our system? We gain advantages:
> >
> > - Edit wiki pages in favorite text editor (like SublimeText, Vim, etc.)
> > - Edit wiki pages right in your favorite IDE, near Mediawiki php files.
> >
>
> We already have http://wikipediafs.sourceforge.net/ for that.
> Presumably if a lot of people wanted this feature, there would be more
> downloads from SourceForge:
>
> <http://sourceforge.net/projects/wikipediafs/files/stats/timeline?dates=2013-01-01+to+2013-09-23>
>
> -- Tim Starling

Perhaps the fact there is no Windows support has something to
do with the low number of downloads?





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Re: Mediawiki virtual file system. Call for feedback.

WJhonson
In reply to this post by Camponez
What is the advantage of that?
 

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Camponez <[hidden email]>
To: MediaWiki announcements and site admin list <[hidden email]>
Sent: Mon, Sep 23, 2013 7:08 am
Subject: Re: [MediaWiki-l] Mediawiki virtual file system. Call for feedback.


On Sep 22, 2013 11:34 PM, "Tim Starling" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 21/09/13 05:53, Alexey Klimovich wrote:
> > Now, lets imagine: what if we can work with Mediawiki pages as if they
> > be normal text files in our system? We gain advantages:
> >
> > - Edit wiki pages in favorite text editor (like SublimeText, Vim, etc.)
> > - Edit wiki pages right in your favorite IDE, near Mediawiki php files.
> >

I use a Firefox addon (it's all text) to edit wiki pages on an external
editor
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Re: Mediawiki virtual file system. Call for feedback.

Boris Steipe
Find/replace would be one. Working in a fixed-width font another ...
B.



On 2013-09-23, at 11:13 AM, Wjhonson wrote:

> What is the advantage of that?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Camponez <[hidden email]>
> To: MediaWiki announcements and site admin list <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Mon, Sep 23, 2013 7:08 am
> Subject: Re: [MediaWiki-l] Mediawiki virtual file system. Call for feedback.
>
>
> On Sep 22, 2013 11:34 PM, "Tim Starling" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On 21/09/13 05:53, Alexey Klimovich wrote:
>>> Now, lets imagine: what if we can work with Mediawiki pages as if they
>>> be normal text files in our system? We gain advantages:
>>>
>>> - Edit wiki pages in favorite text editor (like SublimeText, Vim, etc.)
>>> - Edit wiki pages right in your favorite IDE, near Mediawiki php files.
>>>
>
> I use a Firefox addon (it's all text) to edit wiki pages on an external
> editor
> _______________________________________________
> MediaWiki-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> MediaWiki-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l


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Re: Mediawiki virtual file system. Call for feedback.

Mark A. Hershberger-2
In reply to this post by Alexey Klimovich
On 09/20/2013 03:53 PM, Alexey Klimovich wrote:
> - Edit wiki pages in favorite text editor (like SublimeText, Vim, etc.)
> - Edit wiki pages right in your favorite IDE, near Mediawiki php files.

Editors and IDEs can be extended to use the API to edit files as well.
I maintain the Emacs extension to do this
(https://launchpad.net/mediawiki-el) and it works fairly well.

Keep in mind I do have to add support for other things (history, search,
etc), but this is a good start.

The filesystem approach has some advantages, but it doesn't support
versioning and everything else.  The content of the article is only one
piece of the picture.

--
http://hexmode.com/

Love alone reveals the true shape of the universe.
     -- "Everywhere Present", Stephen Freeman


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Re: Mediawiki virtual file system. Call for feedback.

Antoine Musso-3
In reply to this post by WJhonson
Le 23/09/13 17:13, Wjhonson a écrit :
> Camponez wrote:
> > I use a Firefox addon (it's all text) to edit wiki pages on
> > an external editor
>
> What is the advantage of that?

Instead of the black'n white textarea, you are now using your favorite
editor with syntax highlightning :-)

--
Antoine "hashar" Musso


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Re: Mediawiki virtual file system. Call for feedback.

K. Peachey-2
In reply to this post by Boris Steipe
On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 1:23 AM, Boris Steipe <[hidden email]>wrote:

> Find/replace would be one. Working in a fixed-width font another ...
> B.
>
>
You should already have a fixed width font by default in our edit
windows... (unless you are using a language setting that ULS currently
breaks)
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Re: Mediawiki virtual file system. Call for feedback.

Boris Steipe
No I do't. It's some sans-serif.
(in Chrome 29.0.1547.76 same as Safari 5.1.10. Firefox ... Good Lord! you are right.
 MacOS 10.6.8)

a third advantage that comes to mind is using alt-drag for block text selections (as in MSW or TextEdit).
B.



On 2013-09-23, at 5:27 PM, K. Peachey wrote:

> On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 1:23 AM, Boris Steipe <[hidden email]>wrote:
>
>> Find/replace would be one. Working in a fixed-width font another ...
>> B.
>>
>>
> You should already have a fixed width font by default in our edit
> windows... (unless you are using a language setting that ULS currently
> breaks)
> _______________________________________________
> MediaWiki-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l


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Re: Mediawiki virtual file system. Call for feedback.

K. Peachey-2
On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 7:56 AM, Boris Steipe <[hidden email]>wrote:

> No I do't. It's some sans-serif.
> (in Chrome 29.0.1547.76 same as Safari 5.1.10. Firefox ... Good Lord! you
> are right.
>  MacOS 10.6.8)
>
> a third advantage that comes to mind is using alt-drag for block text
> selections (as in MSW or TextEdit).
> B.
>
>
The relevant bug for those interested is: Bug 53734 - Setting language to
anything other than "en" changes default edit-window font from monospaced
to sans-serif <https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=53734>
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Re: Mediawiki virtual file system. Call for feedback.

Yury Katkov
In reply to this post by Alexey Klimovich
I like MediaWiki IDE part in your proposal but I think that you have
to rather concentrate on different features:

* Improving the existing syntax highlighting schemas for MediaWiki
markup. I saw that several editors have highlighting but it's
incomplete
* Indentation. This is probably insolvable problem but without
indentation the templates look horrible
* Autocompletion
   * Autocompletion of parser function parameters,
   * Autocompletion of template parameters,
   * Autocompletion of page names, template names, category names,
{{MAGIC WORDS}}, __OTHER MAGIC WORDS__ : there is a lot of stuff to
autocomplete!
* Renaming and replacing. Presently I use MassEditRegex extension but
it's a minimum! It can't even undo its changes!
* Brace detection. Something to ease this nightmare with single and
double brackets, double braces and triple braces.
-----
Yury Katkov, WikiVote



On Fri, Sep 20, 2013 at 11:53 PM, Alexey Klimovich
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi, everyone!
> I want to call for community feedback about my idea:
>
> Problem
> =======
> When gearing up site based on Mediawiki, especially, with Semantic Mediawiki
> and Semantic Forms extensions installed, we encounter with need of Mediawiki
> customization for project-specified requirements. This includes two main
> steps:
>
> 1). Create wiki structure with pages, categories, templates, forms, etc.
> 2). Install & configure mediawiki extensions and possibly write new ones for
> site customization.
>
> There is a problem. Crating process of Mediawiki based site is inconsistent!
> One things we should do in IDE, another things - on site. Jumping from one
> window to another.
>
> Idea
> =======
> Now, lets imagine: what if we can work with Mediawiki pages as if they be
> normal text files in our system? We gain advantages:
>
> - Edit wiki pages in favorite text editor (like SublimeText, Vim, etc.)
> - Edit wiki pages right in your favorite IDE, near Mediawiki php files.
>
> And even more in future:
>
> - Zip or copy wiki pages to computer. Edit offline. Upload changes later.
> - Use any native program to work with pages like files: search&replace,
> syntax highlight, auto-complete in IDE, etc.
>
>
> Solution
> ========
> My offer is to create tool which will mount Mediawiki pages as files in
> local virtual drive. Virtual file system. MediawikiFS.
>
> Summary
> ========
> I have already coded very early working prototype (only for Windows yet).
> You can test it here: http://mediawikifs.com
>
> You can read more information and support my idea and proposal at:
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/MediawikiFS
>
> Feel free to ask questions and features if interested!
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> MediaWiki-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l

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Re: Mediawiki virtual file system. Call for feedback.

Alexey Klimovich
In reply to this post by Tim Starling-2
Thanks everyone for comments!

I must tell that development of this idea will be regardless of proposal
results, possibly with less functions however.

So feel free to post your suggestions on project discussion page:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/MediawikiFS

This not only about MediawikiFS but more about your vision of Mediawiki
IDE? How you think it should looks like? Which features should be
implemented?

Especially, i am interested in feedback of people working close with
Semantic Mediawiki extension and writing a lot of html inside wiki
templates.

My other answers are inline:

23.09.2013 6:33, Tim Starling пишет:

>>
>
> We already have http://wikipediafs.sourceforge.net/ for that.
> Presumably if a lot of people wanted this feature, there would be more
> downloads from SourceForge:
>
> <http://sourceforge.net/projects/wikipediafs/files/stats/timeline?dates=2013-01-01+to+2013-09-23>
>
> -- Tim Starling
>

Its great that another idea realization exists! T:) ( by the way its
hard to find it in google :D ). However, i found that WikipediaFS have
no Mediawiki API utilization, and based on get/post.
Unfortunately on my Ubuntu it not working properly, maybe i do something
wrong, but can not examine it more than looking at sources.
Another big point - it is only for linux.

23.09.2013 18:47, Gale Andrews пишет:>
 >
 > Perhaps the fact there is no Windows support has something to
 > do with the low number of downloads?
 >

Sure, i think we can not ignore statistics:
http://stats.wikimedia.org/wikimedia/squids/SquidReportOperatingSystems.htm
I am sure there is both a lot of Windows and Linux users who maintain
Mediawiki sites.


23.09.2013 20:20, Mark A. Hershberger пишет:
 >
 > Editors and IDEs can be extended to use the API to edit files as well.
 > I maintain the Emacs extension to do this
 > (https://launchpad.net/mediawiki-el) and it works fairly well.
 > ...
 > The filesystem approach has some advantages, but it doesn't support
 > versioning and everything else.  The content of the article is only one
 > piece of the picture.
 >

I agree that editor support is good thing, but i believe file-system
approach have more advantages than can be seen at first sight.
Сoncretely, with versioning, why virtual fs can not support it? I think
it can very well.

24.09.2013 20:06, Yury Katkov пишет:
 > I like MediaWiki IDE part in your proposal but I think that you have
 > to rather concentrate on different features:
 >
 > * Improving the existing syntax highlighting schemas for MediaWiki
 > markup. I saw that several editors have highlighting but it's
 > incomplete
 > * Indentation. This is probably insolvable problem but without
 > indentation the templates look horrible
 > * Autocompletion
 >     * Autocompletion of parser function parameters,
 >     * Autocompletion of template parameters,
 >     * Autocompletion of page names, template names, category names,
 > {{MAGIC WORDS}}, __OTHER MAGIC WORDS__ : there is a lot of stuff to
 > autocomplete!
 > * Renaming and replacing. Presently I use MassEditRegex extension but
 > it's a minimum! It can't even undo its changes!
 > * Brace detection. Something to ease this nightmare with single and
 > double brackets, double braces and triple braces.
 > -----
 > Yury Katkov, WikiVote
 >

I agree that friendly markup editing and especially code-editing (SMW,
html in templates) is very important for Mediawiki. This case should be
try to solve via Mediawiki IDE idea, integrated with MediawikiFS.

24.09.2013 22:51, Nico Frieling пишет:
 > Hi Alexey,
 > can see some potential in it, but am still not sure, what to think
about it.
 >
 > Anyway, the late SMW+ had an extension called RichMedia ->
 >
<a href="http://sourceforge.net/projects/halo-extension/files/SMWHalo%201.7.0/SMW%2B%">http://sourceforge.net/projects/halo-extension/files/SMWHalo%201.7.0/SMW%2B%
 > 20Extension%20Suite/ which implemented - amongst other features -WebDAV
 > access. Maybe it can serve as inspiration to you?
 >
 > Kind regards
 > Argi

Thank you, i got some inspiration from SMW+ code :D



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