[MediaWiki-l] Reunification of Wikisources

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[MediaWiki-l] Reunification of Wikisources

David Cuenca Tudela
Hi Jane, hi Alex,

Yes, I agree with you that a centralized Wikisource would be quite
meaningful, specially now that projects like Wikidata have shown that it is
possible to have both localization and centralization living in harmony.
I know that Doug (cc'ed) did some experiments with this goal in mind, but I
have no idea how far he is now.
Apart from the technical challenge, it also worries me the social aspect.
Wikisourcerors from each Wikisource and have lived in isolation from each
other for a long time. How would be a reunification perceived by the
different communities? Would it be something wanted?

Andrea and me have the pending task of contacting the communities, so this
is something that we should bring up among other important topics (like the
creation of a Wikisource User Group:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_User_Groups)

The OPW is a grant program for students similar to Google Summer of Code
focused on helping bring more female contributors to open source projects.
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Outreach_Program_for_Women
So yes, it is a gendergap project, but we can offer wikisource-related
projects as we did with GsoC.

David --Micru

PS: Some of those plates are quite scary... I love them :)


On Sat, Jun 1, 2013 at 4:12 AM, Jane Darnell <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi David and Alex,
> I am also starting to think that one project would be a whole lot
> simpler, especially given the lack of cross-referencing between
> projects, which would be nice to have in the wikisource of many
> popular wikipedia languages - especially for translated texts.
>
> Years ago, while researching an urban legend, I took some photographs
> of the engravings and the table of contents of a Latin book and its
> Dutch translation a century later. At the time I was toying with the
> idea of cross referencing the stories but realized quickly there was
> no way to do this on Wikisource. I put my scans here:
>
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Observationes_Medicae_by_Nicolaes_Tulp
>
> Wouldn't it be easier to have just one Wikisource and have all
> language-related information reside in interface layers and for the
> language of texts, the category structure? This would make the Lua
> interface easier to achieve and work on.
>
> David, do you mean by "Outreach Program for Women" to refer to a
> specific wikisource project other than the general ones we have for
> the gendergap project?
>
> Jane
>
> 2013/5/31, Alex Brollo <[hidden email]>:
> > I agree fully Micru.
> > Obviously, my dream is something much simpler and clear-cut: a unique
> > wikisource for all languages, since an unique project for any textual
> media
> > is needed IMHO just as a common project for any non-textual media is
> > running: Commons; and a common project for data now exists: Wikidata.
> >
> > And now, let's go to explore Lua a little bit more.... I presume, that
> > mw.loaderData() can  read a table of Lua functions too, if I understand
> Lua
> > table features. So, shared modules could perhaps be hosted into one data
> > module only. Let's try ....
> >
> > Alex
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 2013/5/31 David Cuenca <[hidden email]>
> >
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> After a talk with Brad Jorsch during the Hackathon (thanks again Brad
> for
> >> your patience), it became clear to me that Lua modules can be localized
> >> either by using system messages or by getting the project language code
> >> (mw.getContentLanguage().getCode()) and then switching the message. This
> >> second option is less integrated with the translation system, but can
> >> serve
> >> as intermediate step to get things running.
> >>
> >> For Wikisource it would be nice to have a central repository (sitting on
> >> wikisource.org) of localized Lua modules and associated templates. The
> >> documentation could be translated using Extension:Translate. These
> >> modules,
> >> templates and associated documentation would be then synchronized with
> >> all
> >> the language wikisources that subscribe to an opt-in list. Users would
> be
> >> then advised to modify the central module, thus all language versions
> >> would
> >> benefit of the improvements. This could be the first experiment of
> having
> >> a
> >> centralized repository of modules.
> >>
> >> What do you think of this? Would be anyone available to mentor an
> >> Outreach
> >> Program for Women project?
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> David Cuenca --Micru
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Wikisource-l mailing list
> >> [hidden email]
> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikisource-l
> >>
> >>
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikisource-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikisource-l
>



--
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Re: [Wikisource-l] Reunification of Wikisources

Billinghurst
This seems more like "a solution in search of a problem".

What is the problem?
How is the current situation not working?
What are you trying to solve?
Where is the review of why the split to language communities?
What are the benefits?

If this is about shared tools, or better integration of specific
components, then let us isolate the problems, then work to the solution.
Pushing harder on WMF to get components that strengthen our community,
provide a better product, and more resource productve, and are part of
their ultimate plan is worthwhile. Starting with a solution isn't going to
get the best result.

Regards, Billinghurst



On Sat, 1 Jun 2013 20:22:38 -0400, David Cuenca <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi Jane, hi Alex,
>
> Yes, I agree with you that a centralized Wikisource would be quite
> meaningful, specially now that projects like Wikidata have shown that it
is
> possible to have both localization and centralization living in harmony.
> I know that Doug (cc'ed) did some experiments with this goal in mind,
but I
> have no idea how far he is now.
> Apart from the technical challenge, it also worries me the social
aspect.
> Wikisourcerors from each Wikisource and have lived in isolation from
each
> other for a long time. How would be a reunification perceived by the
> different communities? Would it be something wanted?
>
> Andrea and me have the pending task of contacting the communities, so
this
> is something that we should bring up among other important topics (like
the
> creation of a Wikisource User Group:
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_User_Groups)
>
> The OPW is a grant program for students similar to Google Summer of Code
> focused on helping bring more female contributors to open source
projects.

> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Outreach_Program_for_Women
> So yes, it is a gendergap project, but we can offer wikisource-related
> projects as we did with GsoC.
>
> David --Micru
>
> PS: Some of those plates are quite scary... I love them :)
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 1, 2013 at 4:12 AM, Jane Darnell <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Hi David and Alex,
>> I am also starting to think that one project would be a whole lot
>> simpler, especially given the lack of cross-referencing between
>> projects, which would be nice to have in the wikisource of many
>> popular wikipedia languages - especially for translated texts.
>>
>> Years ago, while researching an urban legend, I took some photographs
>> of the engravings and the table of contents of a Latin book and its
>> Dutch translation a century later. At the time I was toying with the
>> idea of cross referencing the stories but realized quickly there was
>> no way to do this on Wikisource. I put my scans here:
>>
>>
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Observationes_Medicae_by_Nicolaes_Tulp

>>
>> Wouldn't it be easier to have just one Wikisource and have all
>> language-related information reside in interface layers and for the
>> language of texts, the category structure? This would make the Lua
>> interface easier to achieve and work on.
>>
>> David, do you mean by "Outreach Program for Women" to refer to a
>> specific wikisource project other than the general ones we have for
>> the gendergap project?
>>
>> Jane
>>
>> 2013/5/31, Alex Brollo <[hidden email]>:
>> > I agree fully Micru.
>> > Obviously, my dream is something much simpler and clear-cut: a unique
>> > wikisource for all languages, since an unique project for any textual
>> media
>> > is needed IMHO just as a common project for any non-textual media is
>> > running: Commons; and a common project for data now exists: Wikidata.
>> >
>> > And now, let's go to explore Lua a little bit more.... I presume,
that
>> > mw.loaderData() can  read a table of Lua functions too, if I
understand

>> Lua
>> > table features. So, shared modules could perhaps be hosted into one
>> > data
>> > module only. Let's try ....
>> >
>> > Alex
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > 2013/5/31 David Cuenca <[hidden email]>
>> >
>> >> Hi all,
>> >>
>> >> After a talk with Brad Jorsch during the Hackathon (thanks again
Brad
>> for
>> >> your patience), it became clear to me that Lua modules can be
>> >> localized
>> >> either by using system messages or by getting the project language
>> >> code
>> >> (mw.getContentLanguage().getCode()) and then switching the message.
>> >> This
>> >> second option is less integrated with the translation system, but
can
>> >> serve
>> >> as intermediate step to get things running.
>> >>
>> >> For Wikisource it would be nice to have a central repository
(sitting
>> >> on
>> >> wikisource.org) of localized Lua modules and associated templates.
The
>> >> documentation could be translated using Extension:Translate. These
>> >> modules,
>> >> templates and associated documentation would be then synchronized
with
>> >> all
>> >> the language wikisources that subscribe to an opt-in list. Users
would
>> be
>> >> then advised to modify the central module, thus all language
versions

>> >> would
>> >> benefit of the improvements. This could be the first experiment of
>> having
>> >> a
>> >> centralized repository of modules.
>> >>
>> >> What do you think of this? Would be anyone available to mentor an
>> >> Outreach
>> >> Program for Women project?
>> >>
>> >> Thanks,
>> >> David Cuenca --Micru
>> >>


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Re: [Wikisource-l] Reunification of Wikisources

David Cuenca Tudela
Hi Billinghurst,

Thanks for your sharing your concerns and sorry if I didn't outline the
problems in my email. I thought the main ones were already well-known,
namely:
- Redundancy of templates/modules, everything has to be done again for each
language Wikisource and it is not easy to benefit from the advances from
other communities
- Having small disperse communities makes harder to keep their tools
up-to-date and to share know-how
- Hard to have cross-language projects (like multi-lingual books)

While on the Amsterdam Hackathon I asked several people about why the
project was split, but I didn't get a clear answer. I can imagine that it
was because back in the day there were no easy ways of localizing
templates, documentation, etc. but if you find any conversation or decision
in the archives, please do share it.

If we, as Wikisource users, should "push harder to get components to
strengthen our community", then it is a good thing to start this debate to
know what is wanted.
The proposed centralization of modules (see below), it is only one way of
approaching it, however I think it is important to consider all options to
make sure it is the best way.

Cheers,
David --Micru

On Sat, Jun 1, 2013 at 9:40 PM, billinghurst <[hidden email]> wrote:

> This seems more like "a solution in search of a problem".
>
> What is the problem?
> How is the current situation not working?
> What are you trying to solve?
> Where is the review of why the split to language communities?
> What are the benefits?
>
> If this is about shared tools, or better integration of specific
> components, then let us isolate the problems, then work to the solution.
> Pushing harder on WMF to get components that strengthen our community,
> provide a better product, and more resource productve, and are part of
> their ultimate plan is worthwhile. Starting with a solution isn't going to
> get the best result.
>
> Regards, Billinghurst
>
>
>
> On Sat, 1 Jun 2013 20:22:38 -0400, David Cuenca <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Hi Jane, hi Alex,
> >
> > Yes, I agree with you that a centralized Wikisource would be quite
> > meaningful, specially now that projects like Wikidata have shown that it
> is
> > possible to have both localization and centralization living in harmony.
> > I know that Doug (cc'ed) did some experiments with this goal in mind,
> but I
> > have no idea how far he is now.
> > Apart from the technical challenge, it also worries me the social
> aspect.
> > Wikisourcerors from each Wikisource and have lived in isolation from
> each
> > other for a long time. How would be a reunification perceived by the
> > different communities? Would it be something wanted?
> >
> > Andrea and me have the pending task of contacting the communities, so
> this
> > is something that we should bring up among other important topics (like
> the
> > creation of a Wikisource User Group:
> > http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_User_Groups)
> >
> > The OPW is a grant program for students similar to Google Summer of Code
> > focused on helping bring more female contributors to open source
> projects.
> > https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Outreach_Program_for_Women
> > So yes, it is a gendergap project, but we can offer wikisource-related
> > projects as we did with GsoC.
> >
> > David --Micru
> >
> > PS: Some of those plates are quite scary... I love them :)
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Jun 1, 2013 at 4:12 AM, Jane Darnell <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi David and Alex,
> >> I am also starting to think that one project would be a whole lot
> >> simpler, especially given the lack of cross-referencing between
> >> projects, which would be nice to have in the wikisource of many
> >> popular wikipedia languages - especially for translated texts.
> >>
> >> Years ago, while researching an urban legend, I took some photographs
> >> of the engravings and the table of contents of a Latin book and its
> >> Dutch translation a century later. At the time I was toying with the
> >> idea of cross referencing the stories but realized quickly there was
> >> no way to do this on Wikisource. I put my scans here:
> >>
> >>
>
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Observationes_Medicae_by_Nicolaes_Tulp
> >>
> >> Wouldn't it be easier to have just one Wikisource and have all
> >> language-related information reside in interface layers and for the
> >> language of texts, the category structure? This would make the Lua
> >> interface easier to achieve and work on.
> >>
> >> David, do you mean by "Outreach Program for Women" to refer to a
> >> specific wikisource project other than the general ones we have for
> >> the gendergap project?
> >>
> >> Jane
> >>
> >> 2013/5/31, Alex Brollo <[hidden email]>:
> >> > I agree fully Micru.
> >> > Obviously, my dream is something much simpler and clear-cut: a unique
> >> > wikisource for all languages, since an unique project for any textual
> >> media
> >> > is needed IMHO just as a common project for any non-textual media is
> >> > running: Commons; and a common project for data now exists: Wikidata.
> >> >
> >> > And now, let's go to explore Lua a little bit more.... I presume,
> that
> >> > mw.loaderData() can  read a table of Lua functions too, if I
> understand
> >> Lua
> >> > table features. So, shared modules could perhaps be hosted into one
> >> > data
> >> > module only. Let's try ....
> >> >
> >> > Alex
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > 2013/5/31 David Cuenca <[hidden email]>
> >> >
> >> >> Hi all,
> >> >>
> >> >> After a talk with Brad Jorsch during the Hackathon (thanks again
> Brad
> >> for
> >> >> your patience), it became clear to me that Lua modules can be
> >> >> localized
> >> >> either by using system messages or by getting the project language
> >> >> code
> >> >> (mw.getContentLanguage().getCode()) and then switching the message.
> >> >> This
> >> >> second option is less integrated with the translation system, but
> can
> >> >> serve
> >> >> as intermediate step to get things running.
> >> >>
> >> >> For Wikisource it would be nice to have a central repository
> (sitting
> >> >> on
> >> >> wikisource.org) of localized Lua modules and associated templates.
> The
> >> >> documentation could be translated using Extension:Translate. These
> >> >> modules,
> >> >> templates and associated documentation would be then synchronized
> with
> >> >> all
> >> >> the language wikisources that subscribe to an opt-in list. Users
> would
> >> be
> >> >> then advised to modify the central module, thus all language
> versions
> >> >> would
> >> >> benefit of the improvements. This could be the first experiment of
> >> having
> >> >> a
> >> >> centralized repository of modules.
> >> >>
> >> >> What do you think of this? Would be anyone available to mentor an
> >> >> Outreach
> >> >> Program for Women project?
> >> >>
> >> >> Thanks,
> >> >> David Cuenca --Micru
> >> >>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikisource-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikisource-l
>



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Re: [Wikisource-l] Reunification of Wikisources

Federico Leva (Nemo)
In reply to this post by David Cuenca Tudela
David Cuenca, 02/06/2013 02:22:
> [...]  specially now that projects like Wikidata have shown that it
> is possible to have both localization and centralization living in harmony.

We're VERY far from such a harmony, or maybe I'm misunderstandind what
you mean here. We don't have a true solution for the problem of a
multilingual wiki, Commons' pains show it well.
<https://wikimania2013.wikimedia.org/wiki/Submissions/Multilingual_Wikimedia_Commons_-_What_can_we_do_about_it>

 From what I recall, localisation was definitely not the reason for
splitting. It's also wrong to assume that bringing people on the same
wiki will give you a single community: you may well just lose the
(senses of) communities and end up with a dispersed array of editors.

Nemo

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Re: [Wikisource-l] Reunification of Wikisources

Derk-Jan Hartman
In reply to this post by David Cuenca Tudela

On 2 jun. 2013, at 06:06, David Cuenca <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi Billinghurst,
> While on the Amsterdam Hackathon I asked several people about why the
> project was split, but I didn't get a clear answer. I can imagine that it
> was because back in the day there were no easy ways of localizing
> templates, documentation, etc. but if you find any conversation or decision
> in the archives, please do share it.

I doubt that was the reason. The primary reason was probably simply to mirror the *.wikipedia infrastructure approach and the default interface language.

> If we, as Wikisource users, should "push harder to get components to
> strengthen our community", then it is a good thing to start this debate to
> know what is wanted.
> The proposed centralization of modules (see below), it is only one way of
> approaching it, however I think it is important to consider all options to
> make sure it is the best way.

I think that if you look at it from the 'materials', mission and maintenance of community points of view, that wikisource would truly benefit from a 'Commons' approach. It would make it a much stronger, and active community I think, with a larger degree of inter language materials sharing. The community is much more focused on preservation, transliteration, annotation etc. which are all much more language independent than wikipedia or wikivoyage will ever be (and might even benefit from 'stacking' languages).

Also increasing and strengthening the size of the community is probably much more beneficial to it than having the localized sub-communities have their own website and subcultures. Actually, it would probably work better than Commons, since most of the Commons problems actually have to do with the communication between it and the different wikipedia languages, rather then with the communication between the internal language groups. This part of the problem is a lot less likely to occur on wikisource, which is much less interwoven with the sister communities than Commons.

Though I agree that the localization problem still isn't fully solved, perhaps the challenge is to get them solved in order to be able to make such a unification happen.
The big challenges I still see, mostly have to do with Categories, per page content language and of course some caching problems. We are a lot closer however compared to 5 years or so ago.

DJ

> Cheers,
> David --Micru
>
> On Sat, Jun 1, 2013 at 9:40 PM, billinghurst <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> This seems more like "a solution in search of a problem".
>>
>> What is the problem?
>> How is the current situation not working?
>> What are you trying to solve?
>> Where is the review of why the split to language communities?
>> What are the benefits?
>>
>> If this is about shared tools, or better integration of specific
>> components, then let us isolate the problems, then work to the solution.
>> Pushing harder on WMF to get components that strengthen our community,
>> provide a better product, and more resource productve, and are part of
>> their ultimate plan is worthwhile. Starting with a solution isn't going to
>> get the best result.
>>
>> Regards, Billinghurst
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, 1 Jun 2013 20:22:38 -0400, David Cuenca <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Hi Jane, hi Alex,
>>>
>>> Yes, I agree with you that a centralized Wikisource would be quite
>>> meaningful, specially now that projects like Wikidata have shown that it
>> is
>>> possible to have both localization and centralization living in harmony.
>>> I know that Doug (cc'ed) did some experiments with this goal in mind,
>> but I
>>> have no idea how far he is now.
>>> Apart from the technical challenge, it also worries me the social
>> aspect.
>>> Wikisourcerors from each Wikisource and have lived in isolation from
>> each
>>> other for a long time. How would be a reunification perceived by the
>>> different communities? Would it be something wanted?
>>>
>>> Andrea and me have the pending task of contacting the communities, so
>> this
>>> is something that we should bring up among other important topics (like
>> the
>>> creation of a Wikisource User Group:
>>> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_User_Groups)
>>>
>>> The OPW is a grant program for students similar to Google Summer of Code
>>> focused on helping bring more female contributors to open source
>> projects.
>>> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Outreach_Program_for_Women
>>> So yes, it is a gendergap project, but we can offer wikisource-related
>>> projects as we did with GsoC.
>>>
>>> David --Micru
>>>
>>> PS: Some of those plates are quite scary... I love them :)
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jun 1, 2013 at 4:12 AM, Jane Darnell <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi David and Alex,
>>>> I am also starting to think that one project would be a whole lot
>>>> simpler, especially given the lack of cross-referencing between
>>>> projects, which would be nice to have in the wikisource of many
>>>> popular wikipedia languages - especially for translated texts.
>>>>
>>>> Years ago, while researching an urban legend, I took some photographs
>>>> of the engravings and the table of contents of a Latin book and its
>>>> Dutch translation a century later. At the time I was toying with the
>>>> idea of cross referencing the stories but realized quickly there was
>>>> no way to do this on Wikisource. I put my scans here:
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Observationes_Medicae_by_Nicolaes_Tulp
>>>>
>>>> Wouldn't it be easier to have just one Wikisource and have all
>>>> language-related information reside in interface layers and for the
>>>> language of texts, the category structure? This would make the Lua
>>>> interface easier to achieve and work on.
>>>>
>>>> David, do you mean by "Outreach Program for Women" to refer to a
>>>> specific wikisource project other than the general ones we have for
>>>> the gendergap project?
>>>>
>>>> Jane
>>>>
>>>> 2013/5/31, Alex Brollo <[hidden email]>:
>>>>> I agree fully Micru.
>>>>> Obviously, my dream is something much simpler and clear-cut: a unique
>>>>> wikisource for all languages, since an unique project for any textual
>>>> media
>>>>> is needed IMHO just as a common project for any non-textual media is
>>>>> running: Commons; and a common project for data now exists: Wikidata.
>>>>>
>>>>> And now, let's go to explore Lua a little bit more.... I presume,
>> that
>>>>> mw.loaderData() can  read a table of Lua functions too, if I
>> understand
>>>> Lua
>>>>> table features. So, shared modules could perhaps be hosted into one
>>>>> data
>>>>> module only. Let's try ....
>>>>>
>>>>> Alex
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2013/5/31 David Cuenca <[hidden email]>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> After a talk with Brad Jorsch during the Hackathon (thanks again
>> Brad
>>>> for
>>>>>> your patience), it became clear to me that Lua modules can be
>>>>>> localized
>>>>>> either by using system messages or by getting the project language
>>>>>> code
>>>>>> (mw.getContentLanguage().getCode()) and then switching the message.
>>>>>> This
>>>>>> second option is less integrated with the translation system, but
>> can
>>>>>> serve
>>>>>> as intermediate step to get things running.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For Wikisource it would be nice to have a central repository
>> (sitting
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> wikisource.org) of localized Lua modules and associated templates.
>> The
>>>>>> documentation could be translated using Extension:Translate. These
>>>>>> modules,
>>>>>> templates and associated documentation would be then synchronized
>> with
>>>>>> all
>>>>>> the language wikisources that subscribe to an opt-in list. Users
>> would
>>>> be
>>>>>> then advised to modify the central module, thus all language
>> versions
>>>>>> would
>>>>>> benefit of the improvements. This could be the first experiment of
>>>> having
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> centralized repository of modules.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What do you think of this? Would be anyone available to mentor an
>>>>>> Outreach
>>>>>> Program for Women project?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> David Cuenca --Micru
>>>>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikisource-l mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikisource-l
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Etiamsi omnes, ego non
> _______________________________________________
> MediaWiki-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l


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Re: [Wikisource-l] Reunification of Wikisources

David Cuenca Tudela
In reply to this post by Federico Leva (Nemo)
On Sun, Jun 2, 2013 at 3:33 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) <[hidden email]>wrote:

> [...]
> From what I recall, localisation was definitely not the reason for
> splitting. It's also wrong to assume that bringing people on the same wiki
> will give you a single community: you may well just lose the (senses of)
> communities and end up with a dispersed array of editors.


Ideally we should aim to keep that sense of communities and at the same
time share tools and certain pages across Wikisources.
I wonder if some day it would be technically feasible to have a way of
marking certain pages as "global" so they can exist simultaneously in all
language versions. That would be a boon for script/template sharing.

Micru
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