Names of Wikimedia languages and other matrix

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Names of Wikimedia languages and other matrix

Milos Rancic-2
Cross-list posting, as it's relevant to Wiktionary and Wikimedia as a whole.

First of all, please go to Meta page "Names of Wikimedia languages"
[1] and do the best to proofread or translate items. That's
strategically important set of lists for the movement. We have to know
the names of Wikimedia languages in Wikimedia languages.

This is the first mobilization for this kind of simple translations:
few hundred terms, of which this list is the most complex, as it
requires additional column "in <this> language".

The next one will be about lexicographical and grammatical terms and
abbreviations. That one is of strategic importance for Wiktionary, as
it allows anyone to generate sane dictionary entries.

After those two lists we'll be able to start working on the
Ornithological dictionary, with something less than 400 species.

And now about the number of tanks...

Let's say that there are 250 Wikimedia languages and that we have
three matrix sets: names of languages, 100 lexicographical and
grammatical abbreviations and terms and 400 species from
ornithological dictionary. And that we have those lists translated in
all (250) Wikimedia languages. The numbers are...

* The names of 250 languages *times* in 250 languages (=62,500 entries
per project) *times* on 250 projects (=15,625,000 entries on all
projects).
* 100 lexicographical and grammatical terms and abbreviations *times*
250 languages (=25,000 entries per project) *times* on 250 projects
(=6,250,000 entries on all projects).
* 400 bird species * 250 languages (=100,000 entries per project)
*times* on 250 projects (=25,000,000 entries on all projects).

OK. That calculation is too optimistic. I would be happy if we get
translations in 50 languages. The numbers would be then 125,000
entries for languages, 250,000 entries for lexicographical and
grammatical terms and abbreviations and 1,000,000 for birds.

Besides obvious fact that traditional lexicography isn't that
optimized (note that it's about traditional lexicography, not about
Wiktionary itself, thus not that fixable) and that we need a bit
better method (OmegaWiki, Wikidata, we are developing the proof of
concept, as well), there are two other consequences:

1) If we have a set of 400 words and we translate them in 50
languages, we are getting one million of entries. We should be doing
that on monthly basis. It's not hard at all!

2) In a bit more complex form, which requires more work per matrix set
and smaller output ("just" multiplication of the first and third
number), this could be used for Wikipedia articles, as well. (You need
much more information in encyclopedic article for German language than
in a dictionary entry. But it's quite possible to do it. And it's
especially important for languages with small number of speakers.)

Please go to [1] and help this translation! Having the names of
Wikimedia languages in Wikimedia languages *is* important no matter if
it's about Wiktionary or generating the content. We should know the
names of our languages in our languages.

[1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Names_of_Wikimedia_languages

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Re: Names of Wikimedia languages and other matrix

Federico Leva (Nemo)
Milos Rancic, 23/04/2015 23:19:
> Cross-list posting, as it's relevant to Wiktionary and Wikimedia as a whole.
>
> First of all, please go to Meta page "Names of Wikimedia languages"
> [1] and do the best to proofread or translate items. That's
> strategically important set of lists for the movement. We have to know
> the names of Wikimedia languages in Wikimedia languages.

Please don't. This is not the way we do it.
https://translatewiki.net/wiki/CLDR

Nemo

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Re: Names of Wikimedia languages and other matrix

Gerard Meijssen-3
Hoi,
In addition to this, Wikidata knows about all the languages in CLDR and the
ISO-693-3 and it is seeking as well for the names in any and all language.
Thanks,
     GerardM

On 23 April 2015 at 23:36, Federico Leva (Nemo) <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Milos Rancic, 23/04/2015 23:19:
>
>> Cross-list posting, as it's relevant to Wiktionary and Wikimedia as a
>> whole.
>>
>> First of all, please go to Meta page "Names of Wikimedia languages"
>> [1] and do the best to proofread or translate items. That's
>> strategically important set of lists for the movement. We have to know
>> the names of Wikimedia languages in Wikimedia languages.
>>
>
> Please don't. This is not the way we do it.
> https://translatewiki.net/wiki/CLDR
>
> Nemo
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wiktionary-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l
>
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Re: Names of Wikimedia languages and other matrix

Milos Rancic-2
CLDR is not the right place for that. There are no translations of
languages inside of it.

Wikidata would be (and CC0 is exactly because incorporation of the
translations into Wikidata; language name guesses are based on Wikidata
guesses based on Wikipedia pages) if we don't need grammatical categories
and one extra message.
On Apr 24, 2015 13:19, "Gerard Meijssen" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hoi,
> In addition to this, Wikidata knows about all the languages in CLDR and the
> ISO-693-3 and it is seeking as well for the names in any and all language.
> Thanks,
>      GerardM
>
> On 23 April 2015 at 23:36, Federico Leva (Nemo) <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Milos Rancic, 23/04/2015 23:19:
> >
> >> Cross-list posting, as it's relevant to Wiktionary and Wikimedia as a
> >> whole.
> >>
> >> First of all, please go to Meta page "Names of Wikimedia languages"
> >> [1] and do the best to proofread or translate items. That's
> >> strategically important set of lists for the movement. We have to know
> >> the names of Wikimedia languages in Wikimedia languages.
> >>
> >
> > Please don't. This is not the way we do it.
> > https://translatewiki.net/wiki/CLDR
> >
> > Nemo
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wiktionary-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Wiktionary-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l
>
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Re: Names of Wikimedia languages and other matrix

Minh Nguyen-6
On 2015-04-24 08:37, Milos Rancic wrote:
> CLDR is not the right place for that. There are no translations of
> languages inside of it.

There certainly are:

http://www.unicode.org/cldr/charts/27/by_type/locale_display_names.languages__a-d_.html

--
Minh Nguyen <[hidden email]>
Jabber: [hidden email]; Blog: http://notes.1ec5.org/


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Re: Names of Wikimedia languages and other matrix

Gerard Meijssen-3
Hoi,
Thank you Minh
Gerard

On 26 April 2015 at 20:17, Minh Nguyen <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 2015-04-24 08:37, Milos Rancic wrote:
>
>> CLDR is not the right place for that. There are no translations of
>> languages inside of it.
>>
>
> There certainly are:
>
>
> http://www.unicode.org/cldr/charts/27/by_type/locale_display_names.languages__a-d_.html
>
> --
> Minh Nguyen <[hidden email]>
> Jabber: [hidden email]; Blog: http://notes.1ec5.org/
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wiktionary-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l
>
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Re: Names of Wikimedia languages and other matrix

Milos Rancic-2
May somebody clarify that Unicode data is free? PD or CC-BY-SA
compatible. Or they are not and you are promoting contribution to the
proprietary data?

I could see that every file has link to this copyright:
http://www.unicode.org/copyright.html

(BTW, I spent significant time of work to incorporate Unicode data
into this project, assuming that I am getting here valid information.
Which is not the case, obviously.)



On Sun, Apr 26, 2015 at 10:21 PM, Gerard Meijssen
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hoi,
> Thank you Minh
> Gerard
>
> On 26 April 2015 at 20:17, Minh Nguyen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On 2015-04-24 08:37, Milos Rancic wrote:
>>
>>> CLDR is not the right place for that. There are no translations of
>>> languages inside of it.
>>>
>>
>> There certainly are:
>>
>>
>> http://www.unicode.org/cldr/charts/27/by_type/locale_display_names.languages__a-d_.html
>>
>> --
>> Minh Nguyen <[hidden email]>
>> Jabber: [hidden email]; Blog: http://notes.1ec5.org/
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wiktionary-l mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Wiktionary-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l

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Re: Names of Wikimedia languages and other matrix

Gerard Meijssen-3
Hoi,
I do not understand your question. The use of the standard is free. It is
so by definition. The only thing that might be proprietary is the text of
the standard itself. There is no problem in using the code. You know it and
it has always been this way.

As important, there is no credible alternative.
Thanks,
       GerardM

On 20 May 2015 at 10:36, Milos Rancic <[hidden email]> wrote:

> May somebody clarify that Unicode data is free? PD or CC-BY-SA
> compatible. Or they are not and you are promoting contribution to the
> proprietary data?
>
> I could see that every file has link to this copyright:
> http://www.unicode.org/copyright.html
>
> (BTW, I spent significant time of work to incorporate Unicode data
> into this project, assuming that I am getting here valid information.
> Which is not the case, obviously.)
>
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 26, 2015 at 10:21 PM, Gerard Meijssen
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Hoi,
> > Thank you Minh
> > Gerard
> >
> > On 26 April 2015 at 20:17, Minh Nguyen <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >> On 2015-04-24 08:37, Milos Rancic wrote:
> >>
> >>> CLDR is not the right place for that. There are no translations of
> >>> languages inside of it.
> >>>
> >>
> >> There certainly are:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> http://www.unicode.org/cldr/charts/27/by_type/locale_display_names.languages__a-d_.html
> >>
> >> --
> >> Minh Nguyen <[hidden email]>
> >> Jabber: [hidden email]; Blog: http://notes.1ec5.org/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Wiktionary-l mailing list
> >> [hidden email]
> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wiktionary-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wiktionary-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l
>
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Re: Names of Wikimedia languages and other matrix

Milos Rancic-2
Inside of the version 27.0.1, the file main/en.xml starts with:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" ?>
<!DOCTYPE ldml SYSTEM "../../common/dtd/ldml.dtd">
<!-- Copyright © 1991-2014 Unicode, Inc.
CLDR data files are interpreted according to the LDML specification
(http://unicode.org/reports/tr35/)
For terms of use, see http://www.unicode.org/copyright.html
-->

May you tell me is, for example, entry "<language
type="akk">Akkadian</language>" PD or not? And explain me where I
could find that interpretations inside of
http://www.unicode.org/copyright.html ?

On Wed, May 20, 2015 at 1:56 PM, Gerard Meijssen
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hoi,
> I do not understand your question. The use of the standard is free. It is
> so by definition. The only thing that might be proprietary is the text of
> the standard itself. There is no problem in using the code. You know it and
> it has always been this way.
>
> As important, there is no credible alternative.
> Thanks,
>        GerardM
>
> On 20 May 2015 at 10:36, Milos Rancic <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> May somebody clarify that Unicode data is free? PD or CC-BY-SA
>> compatible. Or they are not and you are promoting contribution to the
>> proprietary data?
>>
>> I could see that every file has link to this copyright:
>> http://www.unicode.org/copyright.html
>>
>> (BTW, I spent significant time of work to incorporate Unicode data
>> into this project, assuming that I am getting here valid information.
>> Which is not the case, obviously.)
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 26, 2015 at 10:21 PM, Gerard Meijssen
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > Hoi,
>> > Thank you Minh
>> > Gerard
>> >
>> > On 26 April 2015 at 20:17, Minh Nguyen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On 2015-04-24 08:37, Milos Rancic wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> CLDR is not the right place for that. There are no translations of
>> >>> languages inside of it.
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> There certainly are:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> http://www.unicode.org/cldr/charts/27/by_type/locale_display_names.languages__a-d_.html
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Minh Nguyen <[hidden email]>
>> >> Jabber: [hidden email]; Blog: http://notes.1ec5.org/
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Wiktionary-l mailing list
>> >> [hidden email]
>> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l
>> >>
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Wiktionary-l mailing list
>> > [hidden email]
>> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wiktionary-l mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Wiktionary-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l

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Re: Names of Wikimedia languages and other matrix

Gerard Meijssen-3
Hoi,
I quote: "Any person is hereby authorized, without fee, to view, use,
reproduce, and distribute all documents and files solely for informational
purposes in the creation of products supporting the Unicode Standard,
subject to the Terms and Conditions herein."

The point of the copyright is that you are NOT allowed to change modify or
whatever is in the standard. You are not and that is entirely how it should
be.
Thanks,
      GerardM

On 20 May 2015 at 16:22, Milos Rancic <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Inside of the version 27.0.1, the file main/en.xml starts with:
>
> <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" ?>
> <!DOCTYPE ldml SYSTEM "../../common/dtd/ldml.dtd">
> <!-- Copyright © 1991-2014 Unicode, Inc.
> CLDR data files are interpreted according to the LDML specification
> (http://unicode.org/reports/tr35/)
> For terms of use, see http://www.unicode.org/copyright.html
> -->
>
> May you tell me is, for example, entry "<language
> type="akk">Akkadian</language>" PD or not? And explain me where I
> could find that interpretations inside of
> http://www.unicode.org/copyright.html ?
>
> On Wed, May 20, 2015 at 1:56 PM, Gerard Meijssen
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Hoi,
> > I do not understand your question. The use of the standard is free. It is
> > so by definition. The only thing that might be proprietary is the text of
> > the standard itself. There is no problem in using the code. You know it
> and
> > it has always been this way.
> >
> > As important, there is no credible alternative.
> > Thanks,
> >        GerardM
> >
> > On 20 May 2015 at 10:36, Milos Rancic <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >> May somebody clarify that Unicode data is free? PD or CC-BY-SA
> >> compatible. Or they are not and you are promoting contribution to the
> >> proprietary data?
> >>
> >> I could see that every file has link to this copyright:
> >> http://www.unicode.org/copyright.html
> >>
> >> (BTW, I spent significant time of work to incorporate Unicode data
> >> into this project, assuming that I am getting here valid information.
> >> Which is not the case, obviously.)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sun, Apr 26, 2015 at 10:21 PM, Gerard Meijssen
> >> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> > Hoi,
> >> > Thank you Minh
> >> > Gerard
> >> >
> >> > On 26 April 2015 at 20:17, Minh Nguyen <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On 2015-04-24 08:37, Milos Rancic wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> CLDR is not the right place for that. There are no translations of
> >> >>> languages inside of it.
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >> There certainly are:
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>
> http://www.unicode.org/cldr/charts/27/by_type/locale_display_names.languages__a-d_.html
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> Minh Nguyen <[hidden email]>
> >> >> Jabber: [hidden email]; Blog: http://notes.1ec5.org/
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> Wiktionary-l mailing list
> >> >> [hidden email]
> >> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l
> >> >>
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Wiktionary-l mailing list
> >> > [hidden email]
> >> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Wiktionary-l mailing list
> >> [hidden email]
> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wiktionary-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wiktionary-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l
>
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Re: Names of Wikimedia languages and other matrix

Milos Rancic-2
Thus, non-free content, completely useless as content in any Wikimedia project.

I am a bit speechless over the amount of disinformation few of you
willing to spread here to prove your point.

Thank you very much!


On Wed, May 20, 2015 at 5:22 PM, Gerard Meijssen
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hoi,
> I quote: "Any person is hereby authorized, without fee, to view, use,
> reproduce, and distribute all documents and files solely for informational
> purposes in the creation of products supporting the Unicode Standard,
> subject to the Terms and Conditions herein."
>
> The point of the copyright is that you are NOT allowed to change modify or
> whatever is in the standard. You are not and that is entirely how it should
> be.
> Thanks,
>       GerardM
>
> On 20 May 2015 at 16:22, Milos Rancic <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Inside of the version 27.0.1, the file main/en.xml starts with:
>>
>> <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" ?>
>> <!DOCTYPE ldml SYSTEM "../../common/dtd/ldml.dtd">
>> <!-- Copyright © 1991-2014 Unicode, Inc.
>> CLDR data files are interpreted according to the LDML specification
>> (http://unicode.org/reports/tr35/)
>> For terms of use, see http://www.unicode.org/copyright.html
>> -->
>>
>> May you tell me is, for example, entry "<language
>> type="akk">Akkadian</language>" PD or not? And explain me where I
>> could find that interpretations inside of
>> http://www.unicode.org/copyright.html ?
>>
>> On Wed, May 20, 2015 at 1:56 PM, Gerard Meijssen
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > Hoi,
>> > I do not understand your question. The use of the standard is free. It is
>> > so by definition. The only thing that might be proprietary is the text of
>> > the standard itself. There is no problem in using the code. You know it
>> and
>> > it has always been this way.
>> >
>> > As important, there is no credible alternative.
>> > Thanks,
>> >        GerardM
>> >
>> > On 20 May 2015 at 10:36, Milos Rancic <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >
>> >> May somebody clarify that Unicode data is free? PD or CC-BY-SA
>> >> compatible. Or they are not and you are promoting contribution to the
>> >> proprietary data?
>> >>
>> >> I could see that every file has link to this copyright:
>> >> http://www.unicode.org/copyright.html
>> >>
>> >> (BTW, I spent significant time of work to incorporate Unicode data
>> >> into this project, assuming that I am getting here valid information.
>> >> Which is not the case, obviously.)
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Sun, Apr 26, 2015 at 10:21 PM, Gerard Meijssen
>> >> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >> > Hoi,
>> >> > Thank you Minh
>> >> > Gerard
>> >> >
>> >> > On 26 April 2015 at 20:17, Minh Nguyen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> On 2015-04-24 08:37, Milos Rancic wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> CLDR is not the right place for that. There are no translations of
>> >> >>> languages inside of it.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> There certainly are:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >>
>> http://www.unicode.org/cldr/charts/27/by_type/locale_display_names.languages__a-d_.html
>> >> >>
>> >> >> --
>> >> >> Minh Nguyen <[hidden email]>
>> >> >> Jabber: [hidden email]; Blog: http://notes.1ec5.org/
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> Wiktionary-l mailing list
>> >> >> [hidden email]
>> >> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l
>> >> >>
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > Wiktionary-l mailing list
>> >> > [hidden email]
>> >> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Wiktionary-l mailing list
>> >> [hidden email]
>> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l
>> >>
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Wiktionary-l mailing list
>> > [hidden email]
>> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wiktionary-l mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Wiktionary-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l

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Re: Names of Wikimedia languages and other matrix

Gerard Meijssen-3
Hoi,
So you refuse to buy a kilo of salt or drink half a liter of wodka. They
are units of standards in the same way language codes are.

I wish you were speechless because it is a folly to think that standards
should be public domain. The point is that they are not edited and are the
same for everyone.

Again, I am interested in all the codes that apply to the languages used in
Wiktionary. Without them they cannot be used in Wikidata.. NB It is
perfectly fine for codes to be recognised codes like sr-Latn or sr-Cyrl.
Thanks,
      GerardM

On 20 May 2015 at 17:46, Milos Rancic <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Thus, non-free content, completely useless as content in any Wikimedia
> project.
>
> I am a bit speechless over the amount of disinformation few of you
> willing to spread here to prove your point.
>
> Thank you very much!
>
>
> On Wed, May 20, 2015 at 5:22 PM, Gerard Meijssen
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Hoi,
> > I quote: "Any person is hereby authorized, without fee, to view, use,
> > reproduce, and distribute all documents and files solely for
> informational
> > purposes in the creation of products supporting the Unicode Standard,
> > subject to the Terms and Conditions herein."
> >
> > The point of the copyright is that you are NOT allowed to change modify
> or
> > whatever is in the standard. You are not and that is entirely how it
> should
> > be.
> > Thanks,
> >       GerardM
> >
> > On 20 May 2015 at 16:22, Milos Rancic <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >> Inside of the version 27.0.1, the file main/en.xml starts with:
> >>
> >> <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" ?>
> >> <!DOCTYPE ldml SYSTEM "../../common/dtd/ldml.dtd">
> >> <!-- Copyright © 1991-2014 Unicode, Inc.
> >> CLDR data files are interpreted according to the LDML specification
> >> (http://unicode.org/reports/tr35/)
> >> For terms of use, see http://www.unicode.org/copyright.html
> >> -->
> >>
> >> May you tell me is, for example, entry "<language
> >> type="akk">Akkadian</language>" PD or not? And explain me where I
> >> could find that interpretations inside of
> >> http://www.unicode.org/copyright.html ?
> >>
> >> On Wed, May 20, 2015 at 1:56 PM, Gerard Meijssen
> >> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> > Hoi,
> >> > I do not understand your question. The use of the standard is free.
> It is
> >> > so by definition. The only thing that might be proprietary is the
> text of
> >> > the standard itself. There is no problem in using the code. You know
> it
> >> and
> >> > it has always been this way.
> >> >
> >> > As important, there is no credible alternative.
> >> > Thanks,
> >> >        GerardM
> >> >
> >> > On 20 May 2015 at 10:36, Milos Rancic <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> May somebody clarify that Unicode data is free? PD or CC-BY-SA
> >> >> compatible. Or they are not and you are promoting contribution to the
> >> >> proprietary data?
> >> >>
> >> >> I could see that every file has link to this copyright:
> >> >> http://www.unicode.org/copyright.html
> >> >>
> >> >> (BTW, I spent significant time of work to incorporate Unicode data
> >> >> into this project, assuming that I am getting here valid information.
> >> >> Which is not the case, obviously.)
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On Sun, Apr 26, 2015 at 10:21 PM, Gerard Meijssen
> >> >> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> >> > Hoi,
> >> >> > Thank you Minh
> >> >> > Gerard
> >> >> >
> >> >> > On 26 April 2015 at 20:17, Minh Nguyen <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> On 2015-04-24 08:37, Milos Rancic wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>> CLDR is not the right place for that. There are no translations
> of
> >> >> >>> languages inside of it.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> There certainly are:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>
> http://www.unicode.org/cldr/charts/27/by_type/locale_display_names.languages__a-d_.html
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> --
> >> >> >> Minh Nguyen <[hidden email]>
> >> >> >> Jabber: [hidden email]; Blog: http://notes.1ec5.org/
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> >> Wiktionary-l mailing list
> >> >> >> [hidden email]
> >> >> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l
> >> >> >>
> >> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> >> > Wiktionary-l mailing list
> >> >> > [hidden email]
> >> >> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l
> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> Wiktionary-l mailing list
> >> >> [hidden email]
> >> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l
> >> >>
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Wiktionary-l mailing list
> >> > [hidden email]
> >> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Wiktionary-l mailing list
> >> [hidden email]
> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wiktionary-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l
>
> _______________________________________________
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> [hidden email]
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Re: Names of Wikimedia languages and other matrix

Milos Rancic-2
On Thu, May 21, 2015 at 11:57 AM, Gerard Meijssen
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> So you refuse to buy a kilo of salt or drink half a liter of wodka. They
> are units of standards in the same way language codes are.
>
> I wish you were speechless because it is a folly to think that standards
> should be public domain. The point is that they are not edited and are the
> same for everyone.
>
> Again, I am interested in all the codes that apply to the languages used in
> Wiktionary. Without them they cannot be used in Wikidata.. NB It is
> perfectly fine for codes to be recognised codes like sr-Latn or sr-Cyrl.

Gerard, you are bullshitting. You are one of few persons who
intentionally mislead everybody, including myself, that those
translations could be used for the purpose of Wikimedia projects.

Besides that, you are promoting collaborative contribution to a
non-free project here, while we have our own project for that purpose
(Wikidata) and we could use any of our projects for that purpose.

And that doesn't have anything with standards. They can use all the
public domain translations to make the standards and that's fine.

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Re: Names of Wikimedia languages and other matrix

liatt536@telus.net
In reply to this post by Milos Rancic-2
 of the version 27.0.1, the file main/en.xml starts with:

>>>
>>> <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" ?>
>>> <!DOCTYPE ldml SYSTEM "../../common/dtd/ldml.dtd">
>>> <!-- Copyright © 1991-2014 Unicode, Inc.
>>> CLDR data files are interpreted according to the LDML specification
>>> (http://unicode.org/reports/tr35/)
>>> For terms of use, see http://www.unicode.org/copyright.html
>>> -->
>>>
>>> May you tell me is, for example, entry "<language
>>> type="akk">Akkadian</language>" PD or not? And explain me where I
>>> could find that interpretations inside of
>>> http://www.unicode.org/copyright.html ?
>>>
>>> On Wed, May 20, 2015 at 1:56 PM, Gerard Meijssen
>>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> Hoi,
>>>> I do not understand your question. The use of the standard is free. It is
>>>> so by definition. The only thing that might be proprietary is the text
>>>> As important, there is no credible alternative.
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>       GerardM
>>>>
>>>> On 20 May 2015 at 10:36, Milos Rancic <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> May somebody clarify that Unicode data is free? PD or CC-BY-SA
>>>>> compatible. Or they are not and you are promoting contribution to the
>>>>> proprietary data?
>>>>>
>>>>> I could see that every file has link to this copyright:
>>>>> http://www.unicode.org/copyright.html
>>>>>
>>>>> (BTW, I spent significant time of work to incorporate Unicode data
>>>>> into this project, assuming that I am getting here valid information.
>>>>> Which is not the case, obviously.)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Apr 26, 2015 at 10:21 PM, Gerard Meijssen
>>>>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>> Hoi,
>>>>>> Thank you Minh
>>>>>> Gerard
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 26 April 2015 at 20:17, Minh Nguyen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2015-04-24 08:37, Milos Rancic wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> CLDR is not the right place for that. There are no translations of
>>>>>>>> languages inside of it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There certainly are:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>> http://www.unicode.org/cldr/charts/27/by_type/locale_display_names.languages__a-d_.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Minh Nguyen <[hidden email]>
>>>>>>> Jabber: [hidden email]; Blog: http://notes.1ec5.org/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Wiktionary-l mailing list
>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Wiktionary-l mailing list
>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Wiktionary-l mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Wiktionary-l mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wiktionary-l mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wiktionary-l mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l
>
> _______________________________________________
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> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l

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Re: Names of Wikimedia languages and other matrix

Federico Leva (Nemo)
In reply to this post by Milos Rancic-2
Milos Rancic, 20/05/2015 10:36:
> May somebody clarify that Unicode data is free? PD or CC-BY-SA
> compatible.

Sure. The license __for data and software__ is
http://unicode.org/copyright.html#Exhibit1 which is a BSD 3-clause
license with trivial changes to make it even clearer and freer, such as
the removal of the term "binary form" and "other materials".

CLDR data is embedded in most free software, e.g. via ICU, packages for
which are available e.g. in Debian which is notoriously restrictive as
regards licenses. https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=icu

Besides, language names are evidently not copyrightable and Unicode
makes no attempt to state the contrary. (Their license is still useful
for sad places like EU where the set of names could be considered
subject to sui generis database rights.)

Nemo

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