Need Tool Labs migration support?

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Need Tool Labs migration support?

Silke Meyer
Hey all!

We had set a deadline (Sept 30th) to ask WMDE for support to migrate
your tools to Tool Labs. As very few of you made use of this until now,
Johannes still has time to help you. So we are still accepting support
requests. Please think about whether you'll have the time and the
know-how to migrate on your own. Your tools shall have left the
toolserver until June 30th, 2014. This deadline is serious.

If you would like Johannes to give you a hand, please tell us until
November 15th 2013.
* Write to me or to directly to [hidden email].
* Give some details about your tool: Did you try to migrate already but
something fails to work? What works? What doesn't? What exactly do you
want Johannes to do?

Best, Silke

--
Silke Meyer
Internes IT-Management und Projektmanagement Toolserver

Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Obentrautstr. 72 | 10963 Berlin
Tel. (030) 219 158 260

http://wikimedia.de

Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.
Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg
unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt
für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.

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Re: Need Tool Labs migration support?

Maarten Dammers
Hi Silke,

I'm afraid you're effort won't have the intended outcome. What I expect
will happen:
* Some tool authors will move in the next couple of months
* Some tool authors will move at the last moment
* A lot of tools willl just be abandoned.
* You'll get a lot of upset people when you shut down the Toolserver

Don't say I didn't warn you,

Maarten

Op 7-10-2013 14:03, Silke Meyer schreef:

> Hey all!
>
> We had set a deadline (Sept 30th) to ask WMDE for support to migrate
> your tools to Tool Labs. As very few of you made use of this until now,
> Johannes still has time to help you. So we are still accepting support
> requests. Please think about whether you'll have the time and the
> know-how to migrate on your own. Your tools shall have left the
> toolserver until June 30th, 2014. This deadline is serious.
>
> If you would like Johannes to give you a hand, please tell us until
> November 15th 2013.
> * Write to me or to directly to [hidden email].
> * Give some details about your tool: Did you try to migrate already but
> something fails to work? What works? What doesn't? What exactly do you
> want Johannes to do?
>
> Best, Silke
>



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Re: Need Tool Labs migration support?

Magnus Manske-2
Maybe this just needs a little more planning.
* Look at the server logs and find the most used tools on toolserver
* Contact those tool authors directly
* Make copies of the source of those tools publicly available (they should all be open source, but some directories are not accessibly for other users from shell IIRC)
* Keep a Foundation-readable snapshot of the toolserver home directories, user-store, DB dumps etc.
* Forcibly port the most important, unmaintained tools to Labs
I have already started with one or two, though I'd appreciate it if I don't have to do it all by myself ;-)


On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 8:31 PM, Maarten Dammers <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Silke,

I'm afraid you're effort won't have the intended outcome. What I expect will happen:
* Some tool authors will move in the next couple of months
* Some tool authors will move at the last moment
* A lot of tools willl just be abandoned.
* You'll get a lot of upset people when you shut down the Toolserver

Don't say I didn't warn you,

Maarten

Op 7-10-2013 14:03, Silke Meyer schreef:

Hey all!

We had set a deadline (Sept 30th) to ask WMDE for support to migrate
your tools to Tool Labs. As very few of you made use of this until now,
Johannes still has time to help you. So we are still accepting support
requests. Please think about whether you'll have the time and the
know-how to migrate on your own. Your tools shall have left the
toolserver until June 30th, 2014. This deadline is serious.

If you would like Johannes to give you a hand, please tell us until
November 15th 2013.
* Write to me or to directly to [hidden email].
* Give some details about your tool: Did you try to migrate already but
something fails to work? What works? What doesn't? What exactly do you
want Johannes to do?

Best, Silke




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Re: Need Tool Labs migration support?

Marc-Andre
On 10/07/2013 06:27 PM, Magnus Manske wrote:
> * Forcibly port the most important, unmaintained tools to Labs

Sadly, that's only possible when the code is unambiguously licensed as
Open Source, which is often not the case (much of the code running on
the Toolserver has no licensing information at all).

-- Marc


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Re: Need Tool Labs migration support?

Magnus Manske-2
Don't we have to state the license for all our code to get a password renewal? I remember setting that at some point...

In any case, having a list of most accessed tools would be a start. At the very least we could determine if the licensing is a major issue.


On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 11:34 PM, Marc A. Pelletier <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 10/07/2013 06:27 PM, Magnus Manske wrote:
> * Forcibly port the most important, unmaintained tools to Labs

Sadly, that's only possible when the code is unambiguously licensed as
Open Source, which is often not the case (much of the code running on
the Toolserver has no licensing information at all).

-- Marc


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Re: Need Tool Labs migration support?

Platonides
In reply to this post by Marc-Andre
On 08/10/13 00:34, Marc A. Pelletier wrote:
> On 10/07/2013 06:27 PM, Magnus Manske wrote:
>> * Forcibly port the most important, unmaintained tools to Labs
>
> Sadly, that's only possible when the code is unambiguously licensed as
> Open Source, which is often not the case (much of the code running on
> the Toolserver has no licensing information at all).
>
> -- Marc

Then the default license applies.

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Re: Need Tool Labs migration support?

DaB.-4
In reply to this post by Magnus Manske-2
Hello,
Am 08.10.2013 00:42, schrieb Magnus Manske:
> Don't we have to state the license for all our code to get a password
> renewal? I remember setting that at some point...

yes, but you could and can chooses "none" or "all rights reserved" or
"Freeware" or anything else. We do not force people to license their
stuff as open source (and when I read something like "we force them to
move", then I’m glad we didn’t).

Sincerely,
DaB.



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Re: Need Tool Labs migration support?

Magnus Manske-2



On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 7:47 PM, DaB. <[hidden email]> wrote:
 We do not force people to license their
stuff as open source (and when I read something like "we force them to
move", then I’m glad we didn’t).

Because then we could just make a copy of the tool in that nasty open-source way of Wikipedia, instead of having it die with the toolserver?

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Re: Need Tool Labs migration support?

DaB.-4
Hello Magnus,
Am 09.10.2013 00:45, schrieb Magnus Manske:
> Because then we could just make a copy of the tool in that nasty
> open-source way of Wikipedia, instead of having it die with the toolserver?

if somebody choose to move his/her tool to Labs: It’s their thing. But
why forcing people? If somebody chose to not move his/her stuff and let
the tools die: It’s their thing too.

Sincerely,
DaB.



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Re: Need Tool Labs migration support?

Silke Meyer
In reply to this post by Magnus Manske-2
Hi Magnus and all!

> * Make copies of the source of those tools publicly available (they should
> all be open source, but some directories are not accessibly for other users
> from shell IIRC)
> * Keep a Foundation-readable snapshot of the toolserver home directories,
> user-store, DB dumps etc.

I found this this suggestion rather surprising and I'd like to discuss
it with the TS admins first. Not sure if we can just do that. I'll get
back to you.

Cheers, Silke

--
Silke Meyer
Internes IT-Management und Projektmanagement Toolserver

Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Obentrautstr. 72 | 10963 Berlin
Tel. (030) 219 158 260

http://wikimedia.de

Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.
Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg
unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das
Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.

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Re: Need Tool Labs migration support?

Marlen Caemmerer-3
In reply to this post by Magnus Manske-2
Hello,

reading this I feel forced to publish my short Top50 usage of yesterday URLs from Toolserver.

Its just a quick hack on my console but I guess it is more clear output then probably a webalizer could offer.
I just counted the lines in my access log from yesterday of how often a user dir was called.
This is my command line: zcat access.log.1.gz|cut -d \/ -f 4,5|cut -d \? -f 1|sort |uniq -c|sort -rn


4410444 tiles/hikebike
3410590 ~cmarqu/hill
3030592 ~dschwen/wma
1568706 tiles/osm
  651872 tiles/osm-labels-ru
  452436  (should be toolserver.org)
  242462 ~dapete/ime
  191536 ~kolossos/openlayers
  172239 ~para/geoip.fcgi HTTP
  146808 ~kolossos/geoworld
  117295 ~dschwen/iip
  114200 tiles/bw-mapnik
  112167 ~para/region.php
  104377 tiles/osm-no-labels
   99926 ~apper/pd
   85028 ~osm/libs
   63087 ~apper/sc
   61585 ~dispenser/temp
   59166 ~dapete/random
   53725 ~dispenser/cgi-bin
   50095 ~para/GeoCommons
   48399 ~geohack/geohack.php
   46208 ~lvova/cgi-bin
   43747 images/wikimedia-toolserver-button.png HTTP
   30192 ~tparis/autoedits
   26460 ~geohack/siteicon.png HTTP
   24401 ~master/osmjson
   23565 ~dispenser/ghct
   22924 ~cmarqu/opentiles.com
   22199 ~mzmcbride/redirector
   22089 ~daniel/potd
   21928 geohack/geohack.php
   20984 ~para/geoip.fcgi
   20635 ~chm/whois.php HTTP
   16343 ~quentinv57/sulinfo
   15717 ~krinkle/I18N
   11955 ~daniel/WikiSense
   11533 ~soxred93/images
   11007 ~authoritycontrol/redirect
    9610 ~dapete/rss
    8677 favicon.ico HTTP/1.1" 200 1150 -
    8492 %7Egeohack/geohack.php
    7913 tsthumb/tsthumb
    7707 tiles/osm-labels-de
    7460 ~rhaworth/os
    7363 ~dispenser/resources
    6789 ~para/cgi-bin
    6561 tiles/osm-labels-en
    6543 ~dapete/wikinews-rss
    6205 ~dapete/ImageMapEdit


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Re: Need Tool Labs migration support?

Magnus Manske-2
Interesting.

Most of this seems to be related to OSM/geo-something. Not sure how much could actually be ported to Labs at the moment.

There are some tools from e.g. apper that would probably move quite well.

Also, there is geohack, which I had moved to Labs quite a while ago (http://tools.wmflabs.org/geohack/ ). Not sure why it's not redirected/URLs on Wikipedia haven't changed yet.


On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 1:26 PM, Marlen Caemmerer <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello,

reading this I feel forced to publish my short Top50 usage of yesterday URLs from Toolserver.

Its just a quick hack on my console but I guess it is more clear output then probably a webalizer could offer.
I just counted the lines in my access log from yesterday of how often a user dir was called.
This is my command line: zcat access.log.1.gz|cut -d \/ -f 4,5|cut -d \? -f 1|sort |uniq -c|sort -rn


4410444 tiles/hikebike
3410590 ~cmarqu/hill
3030592 ~dschwen/wma
1568706 tiles/osm
 651872 tiles/osm-labels-ru
 452436  (should be toolserver.org)
 242462 ~dapete/ime
 191536 ~kolossos/openlayers
 172239 ~para/geoip.fcgi HTTP
 146808 ~kolossos/geoworld
 117295 ~dschwen/iip
 114200 tiles/bw-mapnik
 112167 ~para/region.php
 104377 tiles/osm-no-labels
  99926 ~apper/pd
  85028 ~osm/libs
  63087 ~apper/sc
  61585 ~dispenser/temp
  59166 ~dapete/random
  53725 ~dispenser/cgi-bin
  50095 ~para/GeoCommons
  48399 ~geohack/geohack.php
  46208 ~lvova/cgi-bin
  43747 images/wikimedia-toolserver-button.png HTTP
  30192 ~tparis/autoedits
  26460 ~geohack/siteicon.png HTTP
  24401 ~master/osmjson
  23565 ~dispenser/ghct
  22924 ~cmarqu/opentiles.com
  22199 ~mzmcbride/redirector
  22089 ~daniel/potd
  21928 geohack/geohack.php
  20984 ~para/geoip.fcgi
  20635 ~chm/whois.php HTTP
  16343 ~quentinv57/sulinfo
  15717 ~krinkle/I18N
  11955 ~daniel/WikiSense
  11533 ~soxred93/images
  11007 ~authoritycontrol/redirect
   9610 ~dapete/rss
   8677 favicon.ico HTTP/1.1" 200 1150 -
   8492 %7Egeohack/geohack.php
   7913 tsthumb/tsthumb
   7707 tiles/osm-labels-de
   7460 ~rhaworth/os
   7363 ~dispenser/resources
   6789 ~para/cgi-bin
   6561 tiles/osm-labels-en
   6543 ~dapete/wikinews-rss
   6205 ~dapete/ImageMapEdit



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Re: Need Tool Labs migration support?

Christian Thiele
Hi,

Am 09.10.2013, 14:55 Uhr, schrieb Magnus Manske  
<[hidden email]>:

> There are some tools from e.g. apper that would probably move quite well.

I just started moving some simple tools a few days ago, but the  
availability seems very bad to me. Sometimes the tools work, sometimes not  
- at the moment nothing works for me, not only my tools but also e.g.  
http://tools.wmflabs.org/add-information/ or  
http://tools.wmflabs.org/catfood/

It was told that the toolserver will die one year after "Tool Labs has all  
necessary features to replace the Toolserver.". One feature is  
availability - and for now it's impossible for me to move tools if they  
only work 50% of the day. So either the availability will be at nearly  
100% or the shutdown will be delayed.

Regards,
Christian / APPER

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Re: Need Tool Labs migration support?

Marlen Caemmerer-3
In reply to this post by Magnus Manske-2


On Wed, 9 Oct 2013, Magnus Manske wrote:

>
> Most of this seems to be related to OSM/geo-something. Not sure how much
> could actually be ported to Labs at the moment.

True. Part of it is that we have to look at the caching options etc of the tiles but the demand is undeniable.
I guess the OSM stuff needs the Wikipedia DBs and the OSM DBs most of the time.

This means its quite important that labs can provide a postgres instance that servers OSM and tile rendering + some TBs of storage.
Its starts to be important that Labs has these features.

>
>
> Also, there is geohack, which I had moved to Labs quite a while ago (
> http://tools.wmflabs.org/geohack/ ). Not sure why it's not redirected/URLs
> on Wikipedia haven't changed yet.

Had a quick look - to me it looks like the htaccess file does not have to regarding redirects.
Another probably more sustainable way would be to change the links pointing there.

Cheers
  nosy

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Re: Need Tool Labs migration support?

Magnus Manske-2
In reply to this post by Christian Thiele
It is annoying, but to be fair, it's "only" been this bad since yesterday or so. Usually it's OK.


On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 11:50 AM, Christian Thiele <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

Am 09.10.2013, 14:55 Uhr, schrieb Magnus Manske <[hidden email]>:


There are some tools from e.g. apper that would probably move quite well.

I just started moving some simple tools a few days ago, but the availability seems very bad to me. Sometimes the tools work, sometimes not - at the moment nothing works for me, not only my tools but also e.g. http://tools.wmflabs.org/add-information/ or http://tools.wmflabs.org/catfood/

It was told that the toolserver will die one year after "Tool Labs has all necessary features to replace the Toolserver.". One feature is availability - and for now it's impossible for me to move tools if they only work 50% of the day. So either the availability will be at nearly 100% or the shutdown will be delayed.

Regards,
Christian / APPER


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Re: Need Tool Labs migration support?

Silke Meyer
In reply to this post by Silke Meyer
Hi again,

>> * Make copies of the source of those tools publicly available (they should
>> all be open source, but some directories are not accessibly for other users
>> from shell IIRC)
>> * Keep a Foundation-readable snapshot of the toolserver home directories,
>> user-store, DB dumps etc.
>
> I found this this suggestion rather surprising and I'd like to discuss
> it with the TS admins first. Not sure if we can just do that. I'll get
> back to you.

ok, I consulted Nosy, DaB. and Mette about this proposal and we will not
make the home directories accessible to others. They can contain all
sorts of private data, user names, e-mail addresses, ssh keys, who knows
what else - maybe even gpg keys, so handing the complete package over is
no option. I wouldn't want to "intrude" into the people's stuff. And
we'd get in trouble with the law here, as the German data protection act
is binding for us.

It's the slower way to contact all maintainers (which will happen
repeatedly) but hey, we've got plenty of time left.

Cheers, Silke

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Internes IT-Management und Projektmanagement Toolserver

Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Obentrautstr. 72 | 10963 Berlin
Tel. (030) 219 158 260

http://wikimedia.de

Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.
Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg
unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt
für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.

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Re: Need Tool Labs migration support?

Marc-Andre
On 10/10/2013 12:32 PM, Silke Meyer wrote:
> ok, I consulted Nosy, DaB. and Mette about this proposal and we will not
> make the home directories accessible to others. They can contain all
> sorts of private data, user names, e-mail addresses, ssh keys, who knows
> what else - maybe even gpg keys, so handing the complete package over is
> no option. I wouldn't want to "intrude" into the people's stuff. And
> we'd get in trouble with the law here, as the German data protection act
> is binding for us.

I agree with this as well, for those very reasons.  This is the reason
why Tool Labs insists that any "real" tool is run from multi-maintainer
project equivalents, and with clear licensing.

I would not allow user's own home directories to be turned over to a
third party under any circumstances, this is why we want no code running
there we might want to salvage in the future.  And, likewise, I'm pretty
sure the foundation wouldn't /want/ to be given custody over data that
may or may not be private from contributors who have not given explicit
leave to do so.

-- Marc


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Re: Need Tool Labs migration support?

Magnus Manske-2



On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 5:58 PM, Marc A. Pelletier <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 10/10/2013 12:32 PM, Silke Meyer wrote:
> ok, I consulted Nosy, DaB. and Mette about this proposal and we will not
> make the home directories accessible to others. They can contain all
> sorts of private data, user names, e-mail addresses, ssh keys, who knows
> what else - maybe even gpg keys, so handing the complete package over is
> no option. I wouldn't want to "intrude" into the people's stuff. And
> we'd get in trouble with the law here, as the German data protection act
> is binding for us.

I agree with this as well, for those very reasons.  This is the reason
why Tool Labs insists that any "real" tool is run from multi-maintainer
project equivalents, and with clear licensing.

I would not allow user's own home directories to be turned over to a
third party under any circumstances, this is why we want no code running
there we might want to salvage in the future.  And, likewise, I'm pretty
sure the foundation wouldn't /want/ to be given custody over data that
may or may not be private from contributors who have not given explicit
leave to do so.

To be clear, I was not suggesting to just dump all home directories on bittorrent ;-)

public_html and cgi-bin should contain most code, and for small tools, could be checked quickly by hand for personal/secret data.

Also, of course I prefer people moving their own tools! Just in the important-tool-will-die-with-toolserver scenario...

Magnus

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Re: Need Tool Labs migration support?

Silke Meyer
Hi Magnus!

> Also, of course I prefer people moving their own tools! Just in the
> important-tool-will-die-with-toolserver scenario...

This question is being discussed in our office these days. I'll keep
the list updated.

Cheers, Silke


--
Silke Meyer
Internes IT-Management und Projektmanagement Toolserver

Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Obentrautstr. 72 | 10963 Berlin
Tel. (030) 219 158 260

http://wikimedia.de

Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.
Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg
unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das
Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.

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Re: Need Tool Labs migration support?

Maarten Dammers
In reply to this post by Marlen Caemmerer-3
Hi Marlen,

Op 9-10-2013 14:26, Marlen Caemmerer schreef:

> Hello,
>
> reading this I feel forced to publish my short Top50 usage of
> yesterday URLs from Toolserver.
>
> Its just a quick hack on my console but I guess it is more clear
> output then probably a webalizer could offer.
> I just counted the lines in my access log from yesterday of how often
> a user dir was called.
> This is my command line: zcat access.log.1.gz|cut -d \/ -f 4,5|cut -d
> \? -f 1|sort |uniq -c|sort -rn
Nice list. These statistics provide a good starting point on where to
focus effort on. Some thoughts:
* Can you make such statistics on a regular basis? Maybe weekly with a
bigger sample
* Can you publish the list somewhere on a wiki?
* Can you make this list longer?
* Is it possible to also make aggregated statistics per username?
* Is it possible to also make these statistics only focused on multi
maintainer projects? These should be easier to move

I ran into two things I think could be structurally fixed:
* I need a place to store my code (now: Toolserver svn)
* I need a place to track bugs (now:Jira)

Wouldn't it be nice that when you create a new project that you
automatically get your own git repository (/toollabs/<your tool>/? at
https://git.wikimedia.org/) and your own component under
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=Tool%20Labs%20tools 
? I'm sure someone with puppet skills could set this up.

Maarten


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