New project - wikicracy

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New project - wikicracy

Vincent Mandrilly
Dear

I think I have a great idea (yes, probably just like everyone posting here
:-)

Wiki and its wikipedia/wikitionnary and other projects proved excellent to
efficiently build free knowledge for everyone, by everyone cooperating
together.

I propose today to adapt wiki software (a few add-ons could do it) to create
a special wiki with the following main characteristics :
- Allow to build cooperative propositions
- Allow to vote on the propositions democratically

The fundamental difference it that this is therefore not to build knowlege
but to build and adopt decision proposals. The philosophy remains the same :
everyone with internet access can participate on a collaborative way, and
safeguards in case of vandalism.

This would be a nice vision for what could become the future of democracy.

More on this page : http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikicracy

Hope for your support or constructive criticism

Sincerely,


Vincent Mandrilly

_________________________________________________________________
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http://www.msn.fr/msger/default.asp


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Re: New project - wikicracy

Gerard Meijssen-3
Hoi,
You describe the means and the mechanism but when a decision is made .. then
what ??? If it is not clear what the consequences are of decisions. There is
no point to making decision as there is no implied follow up; this is where
the proposal ends.
Thanks,
      GerardM

On 8/10/07, Vincent Mandrilly <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Dear
>
> I think I have a great idea (yes, probably just like everyone posting here
> :-)
>
> Wiki and its wikipedia/wikitionnary and other projects proved excellent to
> efficiently build free knowledge for everyone, by everyone cooperating
> together.
>
> I propose today to adapt wiki software (a few add-ons could do it) to
> create
> a special wiki with the following main characteristics :
> - Allow to build cooperative propositions
> - Allow to vote on the propositions democratically
>
> The fundamental difference it that this is therefore not to build knowlege
> but to build and adopt decision proposals. The philosophy remains the same
> :
> everyone with internet access can participate on a collaborative way, and
> safeguards in case of vandalism.
>
> This would be a nice vision for what could become the future of democracy.
>
> More on this page : http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikicracy
>
> Hope for your support or constructive criticism
>
> Sincerely,
>
>
> Vincent Mandrilly
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN Messenger : discutez en direct avec vos amis !
> http://www.msn.fr/msger/default.asp
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
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Re: New project - wikicracy

Thomas Dalton
In reply to this post by Vincent Mandrilly
> I propose today to adapt wiki software (a few add-ons could do it) to create
> a special wiki with the following main characteristics :
> - Allow to build cooperative propositions
> - Allow to vote on the propositions democratically

I'm not sure those two characteristics work well together. Democracy
can only decide between a finite number of discrete choices. A
co-operative proposition building process is likely to end up with a
large number of propositions without definite borders between them.
Wikis are good for building consensus, not for managing a democracy.

That aside, the main problem is that you don't say what you intend
this site to make decisions about. It sounds like your are just
proposing an online debating society, which really isn't something the
Wikimedia Foundation would have anything to do with. By all means
create your own site along those lines, but it will never be a
Wikimedia project.

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Re: New project - wikicracy

Gary Kirk
My thoughts exactly. You are welcome to download and use MediaWiki,
the software Wikipedia uses, and run your website using it, however.
See mediawiki.org/wil/Download
Regards,

On 8/10/07, Thomas Dalton <[hidden email]> wrote:

> > I propose today to adapt wiki software (a few add-ons could do it) to
> create
> > a special wiki with the following main characteristics :
> > - Allow to build cooperative propositions
> > - Allow to vote on the propositions democratically
>
> I'm not sure those two characteristics work well together. Democracy
> can only decide between a finite number of discrete choices. A
> co-operative proposition building process is likely to end up with a
> large number of propositions without definite borders between them.
> Wikis are good for building consensus, not for managing a democracy.
>
> That aside, the main problem is that you don't say what you intend
> this site to make decisions about. It sounds like your are just
> proposing an online debating society, which really isn't something the
> Wikimedia Foundation would have anything to do with. By all means
> create your own site along those lines, but it will never be a
> Wikimedia project.
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>


--
Gary Kirk

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Re: New project - wikicracy

Gary Kirk
Ahem...
mediawiki.org/wiki/Download
:)

On 8/10/07, Gary Kirk <[hidden email]> wrote:

> My thoughts exactly. You are welcome to download and use MediaWiki,
> the software Wikipedia uses, and run your website using it, however.
> See mediawiki.org/wil/Download
> Regards,
>
> On 8/10/07, Thomas Dalton <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > I propose today to adapt wiki software (a few add-ons could do it) to
> > create
> > > a special wiki with the following main characteristics :
> > > - Allow to build cooperative propositions
> > > - Allow to vote on the propositions democratically
> >
> > I'm not sure those two characteristics work well together. Democracy
> > can only decide between a finite number of discrete choices. A
> > co-operative proposition building process is likely to end up with a
> > large number of propositions without definite borders between them.
> > Wikis are good for building consensus, not for managing a democracy.
> >
> > That aside, the main problem is that you don't say what you intend
> > this site to make decisions about. It sounds like your are just
> > proposing an online debating society, which really isn't something the
> > Wikimedia Foundation would have anything to do with. By all means
> > create your own site along those lines, but it will never be a
> > Wikimedia project.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
>
>
> --
> Gary Kirk
>


--
Gary Kirk

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Re: New project - wikicracy

Milos Rancic-2
When Jimmy was talking something about politics.wikia, I was thinking
that it was a platform for something like this idea. And I was
disappointed when I realized that it is just a one more Wikipedia fork
one more specific field (political parties).

I think that this is a good idea (of course, not for WM) if it has
connections with a "real world". MediaWiki (wiki in general, but
MediaWiki especially) is a good platform for articulating political
thoughts of communities (from small to huge; I am sure that with some
software improvements countries/states with around 20 millions of
inhabitants may work together on one MediaWiki).

So, my suggestions are:

- Buy domain wikicracy.org (or something which you like); it is
something like $10/year; try with godaddy.com, for example.
- Ask Wikia (http://www.wikia.com/) for hosting.
- Build a theoretical model.
- Find real communities (for example, some municipalities) which are
willing to switch to MW in their decision-making process.

When you make some initial steps (everything is quite easy except to
find some communities, so, let's say, when you have active contacts
with at leas one community which is willing to switch to MW) -- I am
willing to join you and to help. (I have a lot of ideas related to
this issue.)

On 8/10/07, Gary Kirk <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Ahem...
> mediawiki.org/wiki/Download
> :)
>
> On 8/10/07, Gary Kirk <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > My thoughts exactly. You are welcome to download and use MediaWiki,
> > the software Wikipedia uses, and run your website using it, however.
> > See mediawiki.org/wil/Download
> > Regards,
> >
> > On 8/10/07, Thomas Dalton <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > I propose today to adapt wiki software (a few add-ons could do it) to
> > > create
> > > > a special wiki with the following main characteristics :
> > > > - Allow to build cooperative propositions
> > > > - Allow to vote on the propositions democratically
> > >
> > > I'm not sure those two characteristics work well together. Democracy
> > > can only decide between a finite number of discrete choices. A
> > > co-operative proposition building process is likely to end up with a
> > > large number of propositions without definite borders between them.
> > > Wikis are good for building consensus, not for managing a democracy.
> > >
> > > That aside, the main problem is that you don't say what you intend
> > > this site to make decisions about. It sounds like your are just
> > > proposing an online debating society, which really isn't something the
> > > Wikimedia Foundation would have anything to do with. By all means
> > > create your own site along those lines, but it will never be a
> > > Wikimedia project.
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > foundation-l mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Gary Kirk
> >
>
>
> --
> Gary Kirk
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

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Re: New project - wikicracy

Ray Saintonge
In reply to this post by Thomas Dalton
Thomas Dalton wrote:

>>I propose today to adapt wiki software (a few add-ons could do it) to create
>>a special wiki with the following main characteristics :
>>- Allow to build cooperative propositions
>>- Allow to vote on the propositions democratically
>>    
>>
>I'm not sure those two characteristics work well together. Democracy
>can only decide between a finite number of discrete choices. A
>co-operative proposition building process is likely to end up with a
>large number of propositions without definite borders between them.
>Wikis are good for building consensus, not for managing a democracy.
>
That's a strange view of democracy. I see a collaborative process as
being more democratic than a vote-based system.

Ec


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Re: New project - wikicracy

Thomas Dalton
> That's a strange view of democracy. I see a collaborative process as
> being more democratic than a vote-based system.

Well, by the strictest definition, democracy is rulership by the
people, in which case you are absolutely right. The common definition,
however, is rulership by the majority, which is what I was talking
about.

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Re: New project - wikicracy

Ray Saintonge
Thomas Dalton wrote:

>>That's a strange view of democracy. I see a collaborative process as
>>being more democratic than a vote-based system.
>>    
>>
>Well, by the strictest definition, democracy is rulership by the
>people, in which case you are absolutely right. The common definition,
>however, is rulership by the majority, which is what I was talking
>about.
>
The problem is that there are significant numbers of people in both
camps.  The obscure word "psephocracy" is available to describe ruling
by ballots.

Ec


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Re: New project - wikicracy

metasj

I like 'chadocracy', for some people named Chad.   SJ


On Fri, 10 Aug 2007, Ray Saintonge wrote:

> Thomas Dalton wrote:
>
>>> That's a strange view of democracy. I see a collaborative process as
>>> being more democratic than a vote-based system.
>>>
>>>
>> Well, by the strictest definition, democracy is rulership by the
>> people, in which case you are absolutely right. The common definition,
>> however, is rulership by the majority, which is what I was talking
>> about.
>>
> The problem is that there are significant numbers of people in both
> camps.  The obscure word "psephocracy" is available to describe ruling
> by ballots.
>
> Ec
>
>
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