Ogg Theora is too hard to play. We need YouTube-style Flash streaming video.

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Ogg Theora is too hard to play. We need YouTube-style Flash streaming video.

Jason Spiro-7
Hi all,

Click this link: http://www.openwetware.org/wiki/SynBERC:MIT/Lab_video_tours

It's far different from most video on Commons: it's Flash streaming
video and it works in 99% of web browsers. (The VLC web browser plugin
is supoosed to support Flash video too, though I've never tried it.
Also I don't know if Flash video is based on patented codecs or not.
But assuming that no such problems come up...) Perhaps we should put
in a MediaWiki feature request:

MediaWiki should convert all our videos to low-rez Flash Video format
for streaming previewing as soon as the .ogg original is uploaded.
This way, more people will be able to view our videos, so we'll get
more uploads.

Agree or disagree?

Cheers,
Jason

--
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I also provide training and spyware removal services for homes and businesses.
Call or email for a FREE 5-minute consultation. Satisfaction guaranteed.
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Re: Ogg Theora is too hard to play. We need YouTube-style Flash streaming video.

SJ-5
I'm an outspoken fan of fixing and improving Theora, and I think this
sounds like a fantastic idea.  We should do similar low-res versions
of audio into something other than .ogg -- but make sure that the
high-res version we archive and strongly encourage is, in both cases,
the free-format Ogg version.

There is *no* widely-used completely free audio or video format.  We
should not allow our strong support for Ogg to prevent our media from
being used by the overwhelming proportion of our audience that cannot
(or don't know how to) play those formats.

At the same time, we should use our extra free-format-friendly
energies to promote those formats, educate our audience about how to
play them, develop and host instruction manuals and documents to help
with that last point, and regularly survey users to find out how many
of them can and do play free format media... to know, for instance,
when we can start deprecating in-browser flash in favor of in-browser
theora plugins.

Oh, yes -- and we can push the Mozilla Foundation to integrate ogg
players into the default firefox distribution.  <pokes MozFound about
writing in libtheora support>

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Firefox_Ogg_Support

-- SJ

On 9/28/06, Jason Spiro <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Click this link: http://www.openwetware.org/wiki/SynBERC:MIT/Lab_video_tours
>
> It's far different from most video on Commons: it's Flash streaming
> video and it works in 99% of web browsers. (The VLC web browser plugin
> is supoosed to support Flash video too, though I've never tried it.
> Also I don't know if Flash video is based on patented codecs or not.
> But assuming that no such problems come up...) Perhaps we should put
> in a MediaWiki feature request:
>
> MediaWiki should convert all our videos to low-rez Flash Video format
> for streaming previewing as soon as the .ogg original is uploaded.
> This way, more people will be able to view our videos, so we'll get
> more uploads.
>
> Agree or disagree?
>
> Cheers,
> Jason
>
> --
> Jason Spiro: computer consulting with a smile.
> I also provide training and spyware removal services for homes and businesses.
> Call or email for a FREE 5-minute consultation. Satisfaction guaranteed.
> 416-781-5938 / Email: [hidden email] / MSN: [hidden email]
> _______________________________________________
> Commons-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/commons-l
>


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Re: Ogg Theora is too hard to play. We need YouTube-style Flash streaming video.

Jason Spiro-7
In reply to this post by Jason Spiro-7
From: SJ <[hidden email]>:
>
> I'm an outspoken fan of fixing and improving Theora, and I think this
> sounds like a fantastic idea.  We should do similar low-res versions
> of audio into something other than .ogg -- but make sure that the
> high-res version we archive and strongly encourage is, in both cases,
> the free-format Ogg version.

Cool. I like your idea about audio. Bug filed:
http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7433

To all: If you want the request to be fulfilled, it may help if you
visit the above URL, sign up for a Bugzilla account, and vote for the
request.

> There is *no* widely-used completely free audio or video format.  We
> should not allow our strong support for Ogg to prevent our media from
> being used by the overwhelming proportion of our audience that cannot
> (or don't know how to) play those formats.

Maybe the Foundation / local chapters could get the EU to force M$FT
to include Ogg codecs with Windows :-)

> At the same time, we should use our extra free-format-friendly
> energies to promote those formats
> ...

We need to point directly to the .exe file of the latest codec
installer at Illiminable (and we should suggest they create an
ogg-codecs-latest.exe symlink that always points to the latest one.)
We need to far simplify the Free formats help page. It should be so
easy even my mom could grab the Illiminable codecs.

> Oh, yes -- and we can push the Mozilla Foundation to integrate ogg
> players into the default firefox distribution.  <pokes MozFound about
> writing in libtheora support>
>
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Firefox_Ogg_Support

Is there a bug report? What's the bug URL? There's none listed at the
above URL. But I wanted to vote for it; every vote counts.

Cheers,
Jason

--
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I also provide training and spyware removal services for homes and businesses.
Call or email for a FREE 5-minute consultation. Satisfaction guaranteed.
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Re: Ogg Theora is too hard to play. We need YouTube-style Flash streaming video.

Ilya Haykinson
In reply to this post by SJ-5
If I understand the popular sentiment correctly, it is that:

 a) the foundation is committed to preserving knowledge it gathers in open formats, and
 b) knowledge should be presented by foundation projects using exclusively open formats

Some people assume that a) and b) are inseparable. I would beg to differ. Let's:

 - allow uploads only of ogg files, or other open formats, and
 - allow downloads of these ogg files AS WELL as transcode into flash-presentable formats

We say we want to encourage adoption of open formats.  That's fine and dandy -- let's only allow open formats in uploads.  But a large part of our mission is delivering content and I feel that we've been burying our head in the sand by pretending that there's no problem with access.  I would venture to say that the vast majority of our users cannot watch or hear any multimedia files off of our websites.  I would also suggest that they are not likely to, in the next several years at best.

I suggest that if we change our attitude and allow alternative, actually-workable presentation of our media, we will be more correctly fulfilling our mission.  Let's allow Flash for audio and video.

-ilya haykinson

On 9/28/06, SJ <[hidden email]> wrote:
I'm an outspoken fan of fixing and improving Theora, and I think this
sounds like a fantastic idea.  We should do similar low-res versions
of audio into something other than .ogg -- but make sure that the
high-res version we archive and strongly encourage is, in both cases,
the free-format Ogg version.

There is *no* widely-used completely free audio or video format.  We
should not allow our strong support for Ogg to prevent our media from
being used by the overwhelming proportion of our audience that cannot
(or don't know how to) play those formats.

At the same time, we should use our extra free-format-friendly
energies to promote those formats, educate our audience about how to
play them, develop and host instruction manuals and documents to help
with that last point, and regularly survey users to find out how many
of them can and do play free format media... to know, for instance,
when we can start deprecating in-browser flash in favor of in-browser
theora plugins.

Oh, yes -- and we can push the Mozilla Foundation to integrate ogg
players into the default firefox distribution.  <pokes MozFound about
writing in libtheora support>

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Firefox_Ogg_Support

-- SJ

On 9/28/06, Jason Spiro <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Click this link: http://www.openwetware.org/wiki/SynBERC:MIT/Lab_video_tours
>
> It's far different from most video on Commons: it's Flash streaming
> video and it works in 99% of web browsers. (The VLC web browser plugin

> is supoosed to support Flash video too, though I've never tried it.
> Also I don't know if Flash video is based on patented codecs or not.
> But assuming that no such problems come up...) Perhaps we should put
> in a MediaWiki feature request:
>
> MediaWiki should convert all our videos to low-rez Flash Video format
> for streaming previewing as soon as the .ogg original is uploaded.
> This way, more people will be able to view our videos, so we'll get
> more uploads.
>
> Agree or disagree?
>
> Cheers,
> Jason
>
> --
> Jason Spiro: computer consulting with a smile.
> I also provide training and spyware removal services for homes and businesses.
> Call or email for a FREE 5-minute consultation. Satisfaction guaranteed.
> 416-781-5938 / Email: [hidden email] / MSN: [hidden email]
> _______________________________________________
> Commons-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/commons-l
>


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Re: Ogg Theora is too hard to play. We need YouTube-style Flash streaming video.

Artur Fijałkowski
2006/9/29, Ilya Haykinson <[hidden email]>:
> I suggest that if we change our attitude and allow alternative,
> actually-workable presentation of our media, we will be more correctly
> fulfilling our mission.  Let's allow Flash for audio and video.
>
> -ilya haykinson

And of course YOU will pay patent fees to Macromedia for using Flash ?
Second thing that those flash movies (like eg. on youtube) are
disgusting - it's impossible to simply download it, it' working to
slow on my machine, the player is wrong designed, etc.

I think that the right way is to teach people how use free tools and
force them to use it, then force everybody to use properiaty software,
couse it's easier for windows users...

AJF/WarX
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Re: Ogg Theora is too hard to play. We need YouTube-style Flash streaming video.

SJ-5
In reply to this post by Ilya Haykinson
Better yet, let's allow uploads of material in any format -- and offer
a conversion service, storing the result in a free format.  Then allow
downloads in that base free format and (at least temporarily) in other
formats as well.

The current system, under which almost no video is uploaded or
downloaded, is surely not the best one... for wikipedia readers or for
xiph.org.

--SJ

On 9/29/06, Ilya Haykinson <[hidden email]> wrote:

> If I understand the popular sentiment correctly, it is that:
>
>  a) the foundation is committed to preserving knowledge it gathers in open
> formats, and
>  b) knowledge should be presented by foundation projects using exclusively
> open formats
>
> Some people assume that a) and b) are inseparable. I would beg to differ.
> Let's:
>
>  - allow uploads only of ogg files, or other open formats, and
>  - allow downloads of these ogg files AS WELL as transcode into
> flash-presentable formats
>
> We say we want to encourage adoption of open formats.  That's fine and dandy
> -- let's only allow open formats in uploads.  But a large part of our
> mission is delivering content and I feel that we've been burying our head in
> the sand by pretending that there's no problem with access.  I would venture
> to say that the vast majority of our users cannot watch or hear any
> multimedia files off of our websites.  I would also suggest that they are
> not likely to, in the next several years at best.
>
> I suggest that if we change our attitude and allow alternative,
> actually-workable presentation of our media, we will be more correctly
> fulfilling our mission.  Let's allow Flash for audio and video.
>
> -ilya haykinson
>
>
> On 9/28/06, SJ <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > I'm an outspoken fan of fixing and improving Theora, and I think this
> > sounds like a fantastic idea.  We should do similar low-res versions
> > of audio into something other than .ogg -- but make sure that the
> > high-res version we archive and strongly encourage is, in both cases,
> > the free-format Ogg version.
> >
> > There is *no* widely-used completely free audio or video format.  We
> > should not allow our strong support for Ogg to prevent our media from
> > being used by the overwhelming proportion of our audience that cannot
> > (or don't know how to) play those formats.
> >
> > At the same time, we should use our extra free-format-friendly
> > energies to promote those formats, educate our audience about how to
> > play them, develop and host instruction manuals and documents to help
> > with that last point, and regularly survey users to find out how many
> > of them can and do play free format media... to know, for instance,
> > when we can start deprecating in-browser flash in favor of in-browser
> > theora plugins.
> >
> > Oh, yes -- and we can push the Mozilla Foundation to integrate ogg
> > players into the default firefox distribution.  <pokes MozFound about
> > writing in libtheora support>
> >
> > http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Firefox_Ogg_Support
> >
> > -- SJ
> >
> > On 9/28/06, Jason Spiro <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > Click this link:
> http://www.openwetware.org/wiki/SynBERC:MIT/Lab_video_tours
> > >
> > > It's far different from most video on Commons: it's Flash streaming
> > > video and it works in 99% of web browsers. (The VLC web browser plugin
> > > is supoosed to support Flash video too, though I've never tried it.
> > > Also I don't know if Flash video is based on patented codecs or not.
> > > But assuming that no such problems come up...) Perhaps we should put
> > > in a MediaWiki feature request:
> > >
> > > MediaWiki should convert all our videos to low-rez Flash Video format
> > > for streaming previewing as soon as the .ogg original is uploaded.
> > > This way, more people will be able to view our videos, so we'll get
> > > more uploads.
> > >
> > > Agree or disagree?
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Jason
> > >
> > > --
> > > Jason Spiro: computer consulting with a smile.
> > > I also provide training and spyware removal services for homes and
> businesses.
> > > Call or email for a FREE 5-minute consultation. Satisfaction guaranteed.
> > > 416-781-5938 / Email: [hidden email] / MSN: [hidden email]
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Commons-l mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/commons-l
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > ++SJ
> > _______________________________________________
> > Commons-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/commons-l
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Commons-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/commons-l
>
>
>


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Re: Ogg Theora is too hard to play. We need YouTube-style Flash streaming video.

David Gerard-2
On 29/09/06, SJ <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Better yet, let's allow uploads of material in any format -- and offer
> a conversion service, storing the result in a free format.


This is a *fantastic* idea. Where would the server need to be hosted? Hungary?


- d.
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Re: Ogg Theora is too hard to play. We need YouTube-style Flash streaming video.

Alphax (Wikipedia email)
David Gerard wrote:
> On 29/09/06, SJ <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Better yet, let's allow uploads of material in any format -- and offer
>> a conversion service, storing the result in a free format.
>
>
> This is a *fantastic* idea. Where would the server need to be hosted? Hungary?
>

Probably Iran...

--
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Contributor to Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia
"We make the internet not suck" - Jimbo Wales
Public key: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax/OpenPGP


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Re: Ogg Theora is too hard to play. We need YouTube-style Flash streaming video.

Oldak
In reply to this post by Ilya Haykinson
On 29/09/06, Ilya Haykinson <[hidden email]> wrote:

> We say we want to encourage adoption of open formats.  That's fine and dandy
> -- let's only allow open formats in uploads.  But a large part of our
> mission is delivering content and I feel that we've been burying our head in
> the sand by pretending that there's no problem with access.  I would venture
> to say that the vast majority of our users cannot watch or hear any
> multimedia files off of our websites.  I would also suggest that they are
> not likely to, in the next several years at best.
>
> I suggest that if we change our attitude and allow alternative,
> actually-workable presentation of our media, we will be more correctly
> fulfilling our mission.  Let's allow Flash for audio and video.

I think we all recognise that there is a problem with access, but I do
not think that the solution to this problem is the use of non-free
formats. The most important reason for this is that I'm not sure we
could be considered to be delivering "free content" if it is delivered
in a patent-laden format.

It is important that we (the project) do not sacrifice our ideals and
aims for the problems of this particular year. We should focus our
energy on finding solutions which enable us to continue delivering
truly free content to users. The suggestion that we convince Mozilla
to bundle OGG with Firefox sounds good to me. Another possibility is
that we could also come up with methods for delivering the codecs to
the end user more easily.

--
Oldak Quill ([hidden email])
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Re: Ogg Theora is too hard to play. We needYouTube-style Flash streaming video.

Platonides
In reply to this post by SJ-5
It's fine to me having automated ogg2flash for clients, similar to
what we already do providing "adapted" images.

I don't really know how youtube and such webs internally
handle videos, but i think the most important bit is not if they
provide the proper "software" (being flash) but that users
choose to play it and it plays.
If i choose on commons to play a file, i need to wait until my
browser downloads the whole file to get Videolan started.

On the other hand, if i ask videolan to open it, it can start playing it
almost inmediatly, as the same program is getting and playing.
It's the streaming part.
A flash ogg player (what we ideally'd need, though probably
deserves its own project) must be able to show as it receives,
otherwise it will be "too slow". And it is able to do it as it is embedded
on the browser.
Optionally making the urls with another pseudo-protocol such that
the browser passes the url to the target app instead of a downloaded file
would also be nice, even if users had to install another app for it.
(there's no need for another app, should bug the mozilla guys with this...)


Finally, my opinion of such "alternative" and "embedding options" for videos
is that it must be up to the user. So we wouldn't embed into our web a java
applet nor a flash player (ugh!) to show it, but give them a box
"Here there's XXXX.ogg {video|sound} You can [[media:download it]],
[[play it on your broser]] (needs xyz plugin) or
[[play it with flash]] <sup>[[Help:flash|help]]</sup>."

The "play it" links would activate javascript in order to convert the box
into the
proper code to insert it (yes, we're adding another requeriment: javascript
but
i really doubt un-javascriptted users being able to use an activex flash
plugin, they're
fine with the download link). Our users are smart enough to try each of it
until find
one suitable for their system. And they can even install them (most of them
probably
won't care on what plugin they install, the internet is full of sites
installing crap...).

But from the smart user, we give the user the options; our web is
fast-to-download
(extra stuff is on demand), and we don't ask for extra plugins (how's that
plugins
are required to see wikipedia?? / what has launched the java VM??).



Note 1: Yes, we still need the 'magic solution'.
Note 2: I have recently found some ogg audio files made with audacity that
not all ogg players
correctly played (none or part of it). Any comment?



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Re: Ogg Theora is too hard to play. We need YouTube-style Flash streaming video.

Ilya Haykinson
In reply to this post by Artur Fijałkowski
One does not need to pay "patent fees" -- whatever those are -- to Adobe for using Flash.  Just like people some people can create PDF files and read those (open office can create PDF files, for example) without paying royalties to Adobe, same can happen with Flash.

-ilya

On 9/29/06, Artur Fijałkowski <[hidden email]> wrote:
2006/9/29, Ilya Haykinson <[hidden email]>:
> I suggest that if we change our attitude and allow alternative,
> actually-workable presentation of our media, we will be more correctly
> fulfilling our mission.  Let's allow Flash for audio and video.
>
> -ilya haykinson

And of course YOU will pay patent fees to Macromedia for using Flash ?
Second thing that those flash movies (like eg. on youtube) are
disgusting - it's impossible to simply download it, it' working to
slow on my machine, the player is wrong designed, etc.

I think that the right way is to teach people how use free tools and
force them to use it, then force everybody to use properiaty software,
couse it's easier for windows users...

AJF/WarX
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Re: Ogg Theora is too hard to play. We needYouTube-style Flash streaming video.

Gregory Maxwell
In reply to this post by Platonides
[snip]
> Finally, my opinion of such "alternative" and "embedding options" for videos
> is that it must be up to the user. So we wouldn't embed into our web a java
> applet nor a flash player (ugh!) to show it, but give them a box
> "Here there's XXXX.ogg {video|sound} You can [[media:download it]],
> [[play it on your broser]] (needs xyz plugin) or
> [[play it with flash]] <sup>[[Help:flash|help]]</sup>."

It's funny...

I added a java (GCJ compatible) audio player on enwiki a while back
and I've been mostly unable to get people to even comment it (although
it has been used by tens of thousands)...

It makes me sad to see this thread where so many people are willing to
expend energy talking about how we need to compromise our commitment
to free content in free formats when I can't even get people to help
out with simple free solutions which don't require much compromise.

I guess it's just another example of the meta-pedian illness of talk
over action, and that I probably should just ignore this thread...

But I do want to point out, for the record:

1) The majority of video formats used on the web require some degree
of installation, although some of them can be autodownloaded into
Windows Media Player or use a popular client which many users
installed long ago (Real, for example). Our instructions (on enwiki at
least) for installing video support are effectively a single step, and
if there is room for improvement... {{sofixit}}

2) I'm not aware of any computer make thats ships with flash
installed. So all these flash video sites do require an install..
although it's one install providing for many forms of webcruft. :)

3) There are free software java codecs for both Ogg/Theora and
Ogg/Vorbis. I haven't worked too much with the Theora plugin because
it was a bit buggy under GCJ six months ago, but the java vorbis codec
is very mature and robust.  We couldn't ask for a better framework
from which to build a video player (and there is even a SOC project to
deeply integrate this support with MediaWiki).
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Re: Ogg Theora is too hard to play. We need YouTube-style Flash streaming video.

Ilya Haykinson
In reply to this post by Oldak

On 9/29/06, Oldak Quill <[hidden email]> wrote:
I think we all recognise that there is a problem with access, but I do
not think that the solution to this problem is the use of non-free
formats. The most important reason for this is that I'm not sure we
could be considered to be delivering "free content" if it is delivered
in a patent-laden format.


Why not?  If files are offered in a commonly-playable format, alongside a free unencumbered format, we have the best of both worlds.  We both deliver "free content" as well as deliver content in a format useful to our users.

I think that so long as we insist that the storage of data has to happen in a free format, and that there must always be a way to get the highest quality version of material possible in the same free format, we should have the freedom to offer it in other, less pure but more useful formats.

I guess my main point is that as long as we satisfy the core requirement (free content), our next guidance should be usability and our users in general.  And not some theoretical spread of open formats, in general, usability be damned.  I guarantee you that most users have no clue what a codec is, and no amount of explanation and instruction will get the point across.  A single "play" button in the middle of the screen will.

-ilya haykinson

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Re: Ogg Theora is too hard to play. We need YouTube-style Flash streaming video.

Gregory Maxwell
On 9/30/06, Ilya Haykinson <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Why not?  If files are offered in a commonly-playable format, alongside a
> free unencumbered format, we have the best of both worlds.  We both deliver
> "free content" as well as deliver content in a format useful to our users.

Why don't we just offer something that is both easy to use and which
does not lock the content in encumbered formats?

Ease of use is something that everyone should have, not just people
who can afford commercial propritary systems.

The effort spend arguing that we should use propritary software X
could be better applied into finding a better solution that doesn't
require such a compromise.
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Re: Ogg Theora is too hard to play. We needYouTube-style Flash streaming video.

Walter Vermeir-2
In reply to this post by Gregory Maxwell
Gregory Maxwell schreef:

> It's funny...
>
> I added a java (GCJ compatible) audio player on enwiki a while back
> and I've been mostly unable to get people to even comment it (although
> it has been used by tens of thousands)...

Yes, indeed. There is no need to convert the files to other formats or
use flash or so.

For Ogg Vorbis there is;
http://www.jcraft.com/jorbis/

And with that you can play a Ogg Vorbis file without a player at the
client side.

The software is free to download. I can not be very difficult to inclued
this in the wiki so that you have the option to listen to by a webbased
player. A user good in templates can probably do that in in a couple of
minutes. The only thing that really needs to be done is install JOrbis
on the WMF server so that not an external hosted service must be used
for this.


Also for Ogg Theora is there a java-player that can be used;
http://www.flumotion.net/cortado/

--
Contact: walter AT wikipedia.be
Ook een artikeltje schrijven? WikipediaNL, de vrije GNU/FDL encyclopedie
http://www.wikipedia.be
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Re: Ogg Theora is too hard to play. We needYouTube-style Flash streaming video.

Gregory Maxwell
On 9/30/06, Walter Vermeir <[hidden email]> wrote:
[snip]

> For Ogg Vorbis there is;
> http://www.jcraft.com/jorbis/
>
> And with that you can play a Ogg Vorbis file without a player at the
> client side.
>
> The software is free to download. I can not be very difficult to inclued
> this in the wiki so that you have the option to listen to by a webbased
> player. A user good in templates can probably do that in in a couple of
> minutes. The only thing that really needs to be done is install JOrbis
> on the WMF server so that not an external hosted service must be used
> for this.

It's already setup on enwiki, linking to a modified copy on toolserver.

I set it up weeks ago and have been able to gather fairly little
interest in it... thus my frustration with people insisting that we
must use proprietary formats for ease of use.

Hours to talk abour unfree tools but not a second to build something real...
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Re: Ogg Theora is too hard to play. We needYouTube-style Flash streaming video.

David Gerard-2
On 30/09/06, Gregory Maxwell <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 9/30/06, Walter Vermeir <[hidden email]> wrote:

> > For Ogg Vorbis there is;
> > http://www.jcraft.com/jorbis/
> > And with that you can play a Ogg Vorbis file without a player at the
> > client side.


> I set it up weeks ago and have been able to gather fairly little
> interest in it... thus my frustration with people insisting that we
> must use proprietary formats for ease of use.


I, and I assume most of those who saw it, thought it was an early demo
- not something ready to roll. I also wasn't aware it ran under GCJ as
well as proprietary Java.

As such, WHAT ARE WE WAITING FOR? ROLL IT OUT! SOMETHING USABLE! IT
SHOULD BE ON EVERY OGG IMAGE PAGE!

(The "about" will have to mention it works fine under GCJ and is
Free-As-In-Stallman Software all the way down.)

cc: to wikitech-l in case there's some technical hiccup to doing so


- d.
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Re: Ogg Theora is too hard to play. We needYouTube-style Flash streaming video.

Minh Nguyen-2
David Gerard wrote:

> On 30/09/06, Gregory Maxwell <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On 9/30/06, Walter Vermeir <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>> For Ogg Vorbis there is;
>>> http://www.jcraft.com/jorbis/
>>> And with that you can play a Ogg Vorbis file without a player at the
>>> client side.
>
>
>> I set it up weeks ago and have been able to gather fairly little
>> interest in it... thus my frustration with people insisting that we
>> must use proprietary formats for ease of use.
>
>
> I, and I assume most of those who saw it, thought it was an early demo
> - not something ready to roll. I also wasn't aware it ran under GCJ as
> well as proprietary Java.
>
> As such, WHAT ARE WE WAITING FOR? ROLL IT OUT! SOMETHING USABLE! IT
> SHOULD BE ON EVERY OGG IMAGE PAGE!
>
> (The "about" will have to mention it works fine under GCJ and is
> Free-As-In-Stallman Software all the way down.)
>
> cc: to wikitech-l in case there's some technical hiccup to doing so
>
>
> - d.

The Vietnamese-language projects currently link to JOrbisPlayer on all
its OGG description pages. [1] We use a hack in order to make this work:
we have [[MediaWiki:Fileinfo]] call [[MediaWiki:Playfile]], passing the
MIME type as a parameter. If anyone creates another OGG player on the
Wikimedia Toolserver, we'd be happy to link to that as well.

[1] See, for example, the JOrbisPlayer link at:
http://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C3%ACnh:SCA_approach.ogg

--
Minh Nguyen <[hidden email]>
[[en:User:Mxn]] [[vi:User:Mxn]] [[m:User:Mxn]]
AIM: trycom2000; Jabber: [hidden email]; Blog: http://mxn.f2o.org/

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Re: Ogg Theora is too hard to play. We needYouTube-style Flash streaming video.

Platonides
In reply to this post by Ilya Haykinson
"Ilya Haykinson" wrote:
One does not need to pay "patent fees" -- whatever those are -- to Adobe for
using Flash.  Just like people some people can create PDF files and read
those (open office can create PDF files, for example) without paying
royalties to Adobe, same can happen with Flash.

-ilya

Yes, i remember to see some programs creating very basic flash... we should
research the programs and patent status.



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Re: Ogg Theora is too hard to play. WeneedYouTube-style Flash streaming video.

Platonides
In reply to this post by Gregory Maxwell
So at last it is here? Congratulations!

However...
*It doesn't work for me (start & stop buttons do nothing).
*I can't find how the applet gets the file to play. I guess the above
problem has to do with the applet may need to get passed the file location
on jorbis.player.play.0 instead of
http://tools.wikimedia.de/media/wikipedia//d/d4/
*The link to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_help. is not very useful, it
redirects to [[Wikipedia:Media_help]] where there's no reference to it.
Neither from [[Wikipedia:Media]]
*The page (/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php as per Minh Nguyen msg) shows
too Beta. Not like a finished and usable tool (well, it seems it isn't).

Thanks fo the reference. Java is quite the same as the Flash solutions.



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