Pointing out to an oddity

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Re: Pointing out to an oddity

Yaroslav M. Blanter

> They are available on the submission page if one want to see it. The
> committee would just prefer they not be as visibly available until we
> have confirmed the candidates meet the eligibility criteria and that
> their candidate submission meet the election regulation. This is partly
> to ensure fairness to all those who stand. Say a candidate submission is
> too long (as has been the case a couple of time), it does take time for
> them to correct it. In the mean time, if it were all widely visible, the
> other candidates can/will complain about unfair advantages gained over
> the exposure to the longer statement.
>
> KTC

I can also add to this that the translation effot of the candidate
presentations will only start after May 22. By chance, all four candidates
presented themselves in English - but it would be perfectly legal to them
to do it in other languages, and indeed the mothertongues of two of them
is not English. A premature exposure of the presentation in different
languages (i.e. before the translation is completed) would also make the
chances unequal.

Cheers
Yaroslav


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Re: Pointing out to an oddity

Robert Rohde
In reply to this post by Birgitte_sb
On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 9:07 AM, Birgitte SB <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
>
> --- On Wed, 5/14/08, Robert Rohde <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > From: Robert Rohde <[hidden email]>
> > Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Pointing out to an oddity
> > To: "Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List" <
> [hidden email]>
> > Date: Wednesday, May 14, 2008, 10:55 AM
>  > On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 8:39 AM, Kwan Ting Chan
> > <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > On Wed, 2008-05-14 at 17:12 +0200, elisabeth bauer
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > I don't see any candidates on
> > > >
> > http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Board_elections/2008/Candidates
> > > > (the place where I would expect candicacies to
> > show up)
> > >
> > > Candidate's submission is on
> > >
> >
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Board_elections/2008/Candidates/Submissions
> .
> > Once the close of candidate submission period comes round,
> > the election
> > > committee will transfer the listings of those that are
> > verified to be
> > > eligible to the page you linked to, and translation
> > will also begin.
> > >
> > > Wily D wrote:
> > > > Apparently we're not supposed to know that
> > they exist yet - I don't
> > > know why.
> > >
> > > They are available on the submission page if one want
> > to see it. The
> > > committee would just prefer they not be as visibly
> > available until we
> > > have confirmed the candidates meet the eligibility
> > criteria and that
> > > their candidate submission meet the election
> > regulation. This is partly
> > > to ensure fairness to all those who stand. Say a
> > candidate submission is
> > > too long (as has been the case a couple of time), it
> > does take time for
> > > them to correct it. In the mean time, if it were all
> > widely visible, the
> > > other candidates can/will complain about unfair
> > advantages gained over
> > > the exposure to the longer statement.
> > >
> > > KTC
> > >
> >
> >
> > Then you should remove submissions that are too long (that
> > part at least is
> > trivial to check), or take less time promoting the ones
> > that are okay, or
> > handle all submissions in private.  However, hiding all of
> > the ongoing
> > submissions on a somewhat hard to find subpage is not a
> > good answer in my
> > opinion.  Seeing who intends to stand for the elections and
> > why has an
> > important influence on recruiting others.
> >
> > Incidentally, my instinct was the same as WilyD's, and
> > I added another link
> > to the submissions page prior to seeing this discussion.
> >
>
> I imagine keeping submissions private would hurt translation efforts.  I
> don't see the harm in having them somewhere hard to find so they are
> available to be worked on before they are advertised as being available.
>

You missed my point.  If they are going to be kept online, then I think they
should be easy to find as this encourages further participation in the
process.  Incomplete or problematic submissions might be handled offline,
but in my opinion, the completed submissions should be publicized on an
ongoing basis to encourage others to think seriously about participating in
the process before the close of the candidate submission window.

-Robert Rohde
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Re: Pointing out to an oddity

Nathan Awrich
Just to comment about the "hidden" submissions, they haven't been that well
protected - there has been a link in the sitenotice area on watchlists at
en.wikipedia since the process was opened to submissions. Looks like its
been taken down yesterday or today, but I don't think you can hide something
by advertising it on the watchlist of the largest project's participants!

To Florence's original point - I haven't even bothered to look at the
petition, but I think folks interested in participating will get involved
with the election when it appears the time to do so has come ;-) I hadn't
seen it noted, but does the lack of a submission from you mean that you have
decided not to stand for re-election?

Nathan
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Re: Pointing out to an oddity

Yaroslav M. Blanter
> Just to comment about the "hidden" submissions, they haven't been that
> well
> protected - there has been a link in the sitenotice area on watchlists at
> en.wikipedia since the process was opened to submissions. Looks like its
> been taken down yesterday or today, but I don't think you can hide
> something
> by advertising it on the watchlist of the largest project's participants!
>

There was always (and is now) a link from the page
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Board_elections/2008/Translation

Cheers
Yaroslav


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Re: Pointing out to an oddity

Paul Williams-13
In reply to this post by Florence Devouard-3
On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 12:08 AM, Florence Devouard <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> There are now three candidates. Does no one feel like asking them
> questions beyond their 2000 words candidate statements ?



I'd like to state, as one of the candidates, I am more than happy to accept
and answer any questions posted to any of my talk pages, but preferably to
my Wikinews talk page [1], as I check that most often.

I have already been asked a few questions on my Wikinews talk page, and I am
more than happy to answer any other questions you may have before the
official grilling begins.

~ Paul Williams
~ [[User:Skenmy]]

[1] http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/User_talk:Skenmy
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Re: Pointing out to an oddity

Jesse (Pathoschild)
Hello,

The candidate submissions page is linked to:
* prominently in a big red box at the top of every election page,
* in the section about submitting candidates in the rules,
* in the candidate instructions section on the candidates page,
* and indirectly in an announcement to virtually every mailing list for the
Wikimedia Foundation.

It's not well-advertised to voters, but it's certainly not hidden. We could
add a link to it from the navigation menu; we only decided not to so we
could spare the translation updates for something that didn't seem to need
any extra linking to.

--
Yours cordially,
Jesse Plamondon-Willard (Pathoschild)
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Re: Pointing out to an oddity

Jesse (Pathoschild)
In reply to this post by Paul Williams-13
Hello,

The candidate submissions page is linked to:
* prominently in a big red box at the top of every election page,
* in the section about submitting candidates in the rules,
* in the candidate instructions section on the candidates page,
* and indirectly in an announcement to virtually every mailing list for the
Wikimedia Foundation.

It's not well-advertised to voters, but it's certainly not hidden. We could
add a link to it from the navigation menu; we only decided not to so we
could spare the translation updates for something that didn't seem to need
any extra linking to.

--
Yours cordially,
Jesse Plamondon-Willard (Pathoschild)
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Re: Pointing out to an oddity

Harel Cain
In reply to this post by Jesse (Pathoschild)
There is this question I've been wanting to ask, and I might as well
ask it pose it here to representatives of the election committee : I
have seen on the meta RC a draft of an e-mail to eligible voters being
drafted. Is there really an intention to mass mail this e-mail to (all
eligible) voters (in all languages)?


Harel

On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 9:34 PM, Jesse Plamondon-Willard
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> The candidate submissions page is linked to:
> * prominently in a big red box at the top of every election page,
> * in the section about submitting candidates in the rules,
> * in the candidate instructions section on the candidates page,
> * and indirectly in an announcement to virtually every mailing list for the
> Wikimedia Foundation.
>
> It's not well-advertised to voters, but it's certainly not hidden. We could
> add a link to it from the navigation menu; we only decided not to so we
> could spare the translation updates for something that didn't seem to need
> any extra linking to.
>
> --
> Yours cordially,
> Jesse Plamondon-Willard (Pathoschild)
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>



--
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.

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Re: Pointing out to an oddity

James Forrester-2
2008/5/14 Harel Cain <[hidden email]>:
> There is this question I've been wanting to ask, and I might as well
> ask it pose it here to representatives of the election committee : I
> have seen on the meta RC a draft of an e-mail to eligible voters being
> drafted. Is there really an intention to mass mail this e-mail to (all
> eligible) voters (in all languages)?

Hopefully. E-mailing voters last year did wonders for turn-out (though
it was patchy, due to translation, sadly).

Yours,
--
James D. Forrester
[hidden email] | [hidden email]
[[Wikipedia:User:Jdforrester|James F.]]

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Re: Pointing out to an oddity

Jesse (Pathoschild)
In reply to this post by Harel Cain
Harel Cain <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I have seen on the meta RC a draft of an e-mail to eligible voters being
> drafted. Is there really an intention to mass mail this e-mail to (all
> eligible) voters (in all languages)?

We're hoping to do that, but it depends on technical feasibility. We
need to send emails directly to the registered email addresses (we
can't realistically use [[Special:Emailuser]] for such a large-scale
mailing without many problems), which requires either access to the
email addresses or a system administrator willing to do the mailing
for us.

--
Yours cordially,
Jesse Plamondon-Willard (Pathoschild)

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Re: Pointing out to an oddity

Katie Chan
In reply to this post by Harel Cain
On Wed, 2008-05-14 at 21:39 +0300, Harel Cain wrote:
> There is this question I've been wanting to ask, and I might as well
> ask it pose it here to representatives of the election committee : I
> have seen on the meta RC a draft of an e-mail to eligible voters being
> drafted. Is there really an intention to mass mail this e-mail to (all
> eligible) voters (in all languages)?

From our weekly report:
"Two discussions are currently on hold while we examine technical
feasibility:
* sending an official notification email to all eligible voters;"

Regards,

KTC

--
Experience is a good school but the fees are high.
  - Heinrich Heine

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Re: Pointing out to an oddity

Philippe Beaudette
In reply to this post by Jesse (Pathoschild)
And...of course...the translation issues.

Philippe

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Jesse Plamondon-Willard" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 1:49 PM
To: "Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List" <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Pointing out to an oddity

> Harel Cain <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I have seen on the meta RC a draft of an e-mail to eligible voters being
>> drafted. Is there really an intention to mass mail this e-mail to (all
>> eligible) voters (in all languages)?
>
> We're hoping to do that, but it depends on technical feasibility. We
> need to send emails directly to the registered email addresses (we
> can't realistically use [[Special:Emailuser]] for such a large-scale
> mailing without many problems), which requires either access to the
> email addresses or a system administrator willing to do the mailing
> for us.
>
> --
> Yours cordially,
> Jesse Plamondon-Willard (Pathoschild)
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l 

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Re: Pointing out to an oddity

Casey Brown-3
In reply to this post by Nathan Awrich
On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 12:32 PM, Nathan <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I hadn't
> seen it noted, but does the lack of a submission from you mean that you have
> decided not to stand for re-election?
>

If I remember correctly, Ant decided long ago that she did not wish to
run for re-election.

--
Casey Brown
Cbrown1023

---
Note: This e-mail address is used for mailing lists. Personal emails sent to
this address will probably get lost.

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Re: Pointing out to an oddity

Milos Rancic-2
On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 11:52 PM, Casey Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 12:32 PM, Nathan <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I hadn't
>> seen it noted, but does the lack of a submission from you mean that you have
>> decided not to stand for re-election?
>>
>
> If I remember correctly, Ant decided long ago that she did not wish to
> run for re-election.

According to one "IF" at the email about the next Board meetings, she
is doubtful :)

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Re: Pointing out to an oddity

Jussi-Ville Heiskanen
In reply to this post by Jesse (Pathoschild)
Jesse Plamondon-Willard wrote:
> Harel Cain <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I have seen on the meta RC a draft of an e-mail to eligible voters being
>> drafted. Is there really an intention to mass mail this e-mail to (all
>> eligible) voters (in all languages)?
>
> We're hoping to do that, but it depends on technical feasibility.

This is (*frankly*) not good enough. The whole point of this excercise
is that it was not technically *unfeasible* for a single actor on the
english language Wikipedia to mass spam all the editors on that
wikipedia (and with a generous offer to help - but not initiate -
efforts on other languages).

Yours

Jussi-Ville Heiskanen


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Re: Pointing out to an oddity

Jesse (Pathoschild)
Jussi-Ville Heiskanen <[hidden email]> wrote:
> The whole point of this excercise
> is that it was not technically *unfeasible* for a single actor on the
> english language Wikipedia to mass spam all the editors on that
> wikipedia (and with a generous offer to help - but not initiate -
> efforts on other languages).
>

Certainly, but doing so on 700 or so more wikis using the
Special:Emailuser interface has some complications. For example, it
would result in many editors getting multiple notification emails if
they have several eligible accounts with different names (which is
common). For another, none of us have the time to do it by loading
Special:Emailuser for every eligible user (unless you're offering to
do so).

The ideal solution is to send a single notification email to a list of
the confirmed addresses belonging to eligible voters, filtered to
remove duplicates. This is easy and efficient and resolves the above
problems, but we need help from a system administrator to do so since
we don't have access to those email addresses. We have a system
administrator who will generate the list of eligible accounts, so
getting the list of emails should be relatively easy (although we may
not see them ourselves, depending on privacy considerations).


Jussi-Ville Heiskanen <[hidden email]> wrote:
> This is (*frankly*) not good enough.

This frankly is good enough. We're not obliged to even try; we are
only volunteers serving in our free time, and sending email
notification is purely an extra service beyond what we were asked to
do. You're welcome to mention any suggestions, but I think starting a
conversation like that is inappropriate.

--
Yours cordially,
Jesse Plamondon-Willard (Pathoschild)

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Re: Pointing out to an oddity

Gerard Meijssen-3
Hoi,
I do have a profile on probably all Wikipedias and Wiktionaries... I would
be positively aghast if I am spammed everywhere. It was a bad idea at the
time and imho it still is a bad idea to mail all people urging them to get
an interest in the voting process for a new board member..
Thanks,
     GerardM

On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 5:11 AM, Jesse Plamondon-Willard <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Jussi-Ville Heiskanen <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > The whole point of this excercise
> > is that it was not technically *unfeasible* for a single actor on the
> > english language Wikipedia to mass spam all the editors on that
> > wikipedia (and with a generous offer to help - but not initiate -
> > efforts on other languages).
> >
>
> Certainly, but doing so on 700 or so more wikis using the
> Special:Emailuser interface has some complications. For example, it
> would result in many editors getting multiple notification emails if
> they have several eligible accounts with different names (which is
> common). For another, none of us have the time to do it by loading
> Special:Emailuser for every eligible user (unless you're offering to
> do so).
>
> The ideal solution is to send a single notification email to a list of
> the confirmed addresses belonging to eligible voters, filtered to
> remove duplicates. This is easy and efficient and resolves the above
> problems, but we need help from a system administrator to do so since
> we don't have access to those email addresses. We have a system
> administrator who will generate the list of eligible accounts, so
> getting the list of emails should be relatively easy (although we may
> not see them ourselves, depending on privacy considerations).
>
>
> Jussi-Ville Heiskanen <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > This is (*frankly*) not good enough.
>
> This frankly is good enough. We're not obliged to even try; we are
> only volunteers serving in our free time, and sending email
> notification is purely an extra service beyond what we were asked to
> do. You're welcome to mention any suggestions, but I think starting a
> conversation like that is inappropriate.
>
> --
> Yours cordially,
> Jesse Plamondon-Willard (Pathoschild)
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
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Re: Pointing out to an oddity

Ryan Lomonaco
On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 2:38 AM, Gerard Meijssen <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hoi,
> I do have a profile on probably all Wikipedias and Wiktionaries... I would
> be positively aghast if I am spammed everywhere. It was a bad idea at the
> time and imho it still is a bad idea to mail all people urging them to get
> an interest in the voting process for a new board member..
> Thanks,
>     GerardM
>

I'm sure this problem is being considered.  It's certainly possible to
remove all duplicate e-mail addresses from the database, so that each e-mail
address gets one message.

--
[[User:Ral315]]
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Re: Pointing out to an oddity

Jon Harald Søby
In reply to this post by Casey Brown-3
2008/5/14 Casey Brown <[hidden email]>:

> If I remember correctly, Ant decided long ago that she did not wish to
> run for re-election.


And if *I *remember correctly, Ant has always said she hadn't decided yet.
;-)

--
Jon Harald Søby
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Jon_Harald_S%C3%B8by
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