Possible meeting date: Sunday 29th January, 2006.

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Possible meeting date: Sunday 29th January, 2006.

Gordon Joly

Possible meeting date: Sunday 29th January, 2006?

If we need another face to face meeting, the Royal Oak is free on
Sunday, 29th January. The Royal Oak, 44, Tabard Street, London SE1
4JU - near Borough Tube station, short walk from London Bridge.

Same model as before. Informal gathering from 12 noon. Meeting starts
formally upstairs from 2pm (14:00 UTC).

I have not booked the room, but it is free all day (when I checked
the Landlord last night).

Please let me know if I should book it!

Cheers,

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Re: Possible meeting date: Sunday 29th January, 2006.

Chris McKenna
On Sun, 22 Jan 2006, Gordon Joly wrote:

>
> Possible meeting date: Sunday 29th January, 2006?
>
> If we need another face to face meeting, the Royal Oak is free on Sunday,
> 29th January. The Royal Oak, 44, Tabard Street, London SE1 4JU - near Borough
> Tube station, short walk from London Bridge.
>
> Same model as before. Informal gathering from 12 noon. Meeting starts
> formally upstairs from 2pm (14:00 UTC).
>
> I have not booked the room, but it is free all day (when I checked the
> Landlord last night).
>
> Please let me know if I should book it!
>
> Cheers,
>

I can make it if it is happening.

Chris


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The essential things in life are seen not with the eyes,
but with the heart

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Re: Possible meeting date: Sunday 29th January, 2006.

Gordon Joly
At 12:59 +0000 22/1/06, Chris McKenna wrote:

>On Sun, 22 Jan 2006, Gordon Joly wrote:
>
>>
>>Possible meeting date: Sunday 29th January, 2006?
>>
>>If we need another face to face meeting, the Royal Oak is free on
>>Sunday, 29th January. The Royal Oak, 44, Tabard Street, London SE1
>>4JU - near Borough Tube station, short walk from London Bridge.
>>
>>Same model as before. Informal gathering from 12 noon. Meeting
>>starts formally upstairs from 2pm (14:00 UTC).
>>
>>I have not booked the room, but it is free all day (when I checked
>>the Landlord last night).
>>
>>Please let me know if I should book it!
>>
>>Cheers,
>>
>
>I can make it if it is happening.
>
>Chris
>


Excellent. Given the activity on this email list, there should be
enough to keep us busy from 2pm to 6pm when we get get kicked out of
the pub!

:-)

But we may have to wait on James getting back to us with responses from

1) The Wikimedia Foundation

2) Diane Cabell, who is casting a legal eye over the current version
of our documents.

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Re: Possible meeting date: Sunday 29th January, 2006.

Cormac Lawler
In reply to this post by Gordon Joly
On 1/22/06, Gordon Joly <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Possible meeting date: Sunday 29th January, 2006?
>

I'm think I could make this. I'd also be happy to talk about non-legal
issues, as Jon already mentioned. It seems that incorporation is
premature, though - is there a real need to meet face to face or would
an online meeting be enough? (I'm travelling the next day as well,
so..)

Cormac
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Re: Possible meeting date: Sunday 29th January, 2006.

Gordon Joly
At 16:59 +0000 22/1/06, Cormac Lawler wrote:

>On 1/22/06, Gordon Joly <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>  Possible meeting date: Sunday 29th January, 2006?
>  >
>
>I'm think I could make this. I'd also be happy to talk about non-legal
>issues, as Jon already mentioned. It seems that incorporation is
>premature, though - is there a real need to meet face to face or would
>an online meeting be enough? (I'm travelling the next day as well,
>so..)
>
>Cormac


It could be online, if James decided so. He really does hold the
lines of communication, both to the Foundation and our legal advice.

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020 7515 4964
07904 769 096

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Re: Possible meeting date: Sunday 29th January, 2006.

Andrew Walker-3
In reply to this post by Cormac Lawler
On 1/22/06, Gordon Joly <[hidden email]> wrote:

> At 16:59 +0000 22/1/06, Cormac Lawler wrote:
> >On 1/22/06, Gordon Joly <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>
> >>  Possible meeting date: Sunday 29th January, 2006?
> >  >
> >
> >I'm think I could make this. I'd also be happy to talk about non-legal
> >issues, as Jon already mentioned. It seems that incorporation is
> >premature, though - is there a real need to meet face to face or would
> >an online meeting be enough? (I'm travelling the next day as well,
> >so..)
> >
> >Cormac
>
>
> It could be online, if James decided so. He really does hold the
> lines of communication, both to the Foundation and our legal advice.
>

I can make a meeting in London on the 28th or 29th (but not the
following weekend. My feeling is that we could incorporate next
weekend if we have had the legal review and the foundation board and
their lawyers have not found any problems. The bylaws should not be in
the MoA or AoA as we would like to be able to change them at a later
date - but I will post about this separately.

Andrew
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Re: Possible meeting date: Sunday 29th January, 2006.

Cormac Lawler
> > >>  Possible meeting date: Sunday 29th January, 2006?


Are we going to have a meeting this weekend? I'm in London at the
moment, so i can make it. It seems we have more people available for
Sunday, so will we just say that date? Even if we can't incorporate
(it seems this is impossible, with all the variables), we could talk
about possible projects, and what not. Or what do people think?

Cormac
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Re: Possible meeting date: Sunday 29th January, 2006.

Chris McKenna
On Thu, 26 Jan 2006, Cormac Lawler wrote:

>>>>>  Possible meeting date: Sunday 29th January, 2006?
>
>
> Are we going to have a meeting this weekend? I'm in London at the
> moment, so i can make it. It seems we have more people available for
> Sunday, so will we just say that date? Even if we can't incorporate
> (it seems this is impossible, with all the variables), we could talk
> about possible projects, and what not. Or what do people think?
>
> Cormac

I don't really think its worth having another meeting in advance of
incorporation unless there are things we need to discuss re the
incorporation or we need to physically sign something.

As I understand the current state of play regarding possible projects
we're still at the stage of tossing ideas into the ring to sound out the
feasability of them. If this is the case then I suggest this is probably
best done on IRC where people have access to the net so they can look up
things and get quick asnwers rather than having to write it down for
later.

If we are going to have a meeting in person in London this Sunday then I
need to know by tomorrow (friday) evening at the latest.

Chris

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but with the heart

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Re: Possible meeting date: Sunday 29th January, 2006.

Cormac Lawler
On 1/26/06, Chris McKenna <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Thu, 26 Jan 2006, Cormac Lawler wrote:
>
> >>>>>  Possible meeting date: Sunday 29th January, 2006?
> >
> >
> > Are we going to have a meeting this weekend? I'm in London at the
> > moment, so i can make it. It seems we have more people available for
> > Sunday, so will we just say that date? Even if we can't incorporate
> > (it seems this is impossible, with all the variables), we could talk
> > about possible projects, and what not. Or what do people think?
> >
> > Cormac
>
> I don't really think its worth having another meeting in advance of
> incorporation unless there are things we need to discuss re the
> incorporation or we need to physically sign something.
>
> As I understand the current state of play regarding possible projects
> we're still at the stage of tossing ideas into the ring to sound out the
> feasability of them. If this is the case then I suggest this is probably
> best done on IRC where people have access to the net so they can look up
> things and get quick asnwers rather than having to write it down for
> later.
>
> If we are going to have a meeting in person in London this Sunday then I
> need to know by tomorrow (friday) evening at the latest.
>
> Chris
>

One advantage of having meetings online is to include people who
haven't been able to make it to London so far - including Delphine,
Florence and Angela. I'm still happy to meet face to face this
weekend, purely because I'm_in_London! But if there's not much
interest, there's no point. So, who's still interested_and_available?

Cormac
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Re: Possible meeting date: Sunday 29th January, 2006.

Andrew Walker-3
In reply to this post by Chris McKenna
On 1/26/06, Chris McKenna <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Thu, 26 Jan 2006, Cormac Lawler wrote:
>
> >>>>>  Possible meeting date: Sunday 29th January, 2006?
> >
> >
> > Are we going to have a meeting this weekend? I'm in London at the
> > moment, so i can make it. It seems we have more people available for
> > Sunday, so will we just say that date? Even if we can't incorporate
> > (it seems this is impossible, with all the variables), we could talk
> > about possible projects, and what not. Or what do people think?
> >
> > Cormac
>
> I don't really think its worth having another meeting in advance of
> incorporation unless there are things we need to discuss re the
> incorporation or we need to physically sign something.
>
> As I understand the current state of play regarding possible projects
> we're still at the stage of tossing ideas into the ring to sound out the
> feasability of them. If this is the case then I suggest this is probably
> best done on IRC where people have access to the net so they can look up
> things and get quick asnwers rather than having to write it down for
> later.
>
> If we are going to have a meeting in person in London this Sunday then I
> need to know by tomorrow (friday) evening at the latest.
>
> Chris
>
> --
> Chris 'Awkward' McKenna
>

I guess we need to know if we can incorporate on Sunday. I think all
we need for this is an ok from the Board and positive comments from
our legal adviser. I see no problem incorporating before we have
hammered out every last detail of our future relationship with the
foundation - we know we will be a chapter of some kind and I don't
think we need to have agreed a contract before we incorporate.

If there is to be a meeting, I'll be in London anyway on Sunday, so
that will not be a problem - however I'll be away from my email from
Friday afternoon onwards, so an early decision would be appreciated.

Andrew
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Re: Possible meeting date: Sunday 29th January, 2006.

Chris McKenna
In reply to this post by Cormac Lawler
On Thu, 26 Jan 2006, Cormac Lawler wrote:
>
> One advantage of having meetings online is to include people who
> haven't been able to make it to London so far - including Delphine,
> Florence and Angela. I'm still happy to meet face to face this
> weekend, purely because I'm_in_London! But if there's not much
> interest, there's no point. So, who's still interested_and_available?

Ah, I'm not in London and haven't the time or money to shell out £30-35
every week on getting there. I can come when needed - as long as it isn't
every week!

Chris

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but with the heart

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Re: Possible meeting date: Sunday 29th January, 2006.

Cormac Lawler
On 1/26/06, Chris McKenna <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Thu, 26 Jan 2006, Cormac Lawler wrote:
> >
> > One advantage of having meetings online is to include people who
> > haven't been able to make it to London so far - including Delphine,
> > Florence and Angela. I'm still happy to meet face to face this
> > weekend, purely because I'm_in_London! But if there's not much
> > interest, there's no point. So, who's still interested_and_available?
>
> Ah, I'm not in London and haven't the time or money to shell out £30-35
> every week on getting there. I can come when needed - as long as it isn't
> every week!
>
> Chris
>

Oh no, but that's what I mean! I live in Manchester, and it's also a
bit of a hassle for me to get down to London, but it just so happens
that I'm in London this weekend anyway (and a stone's throw from the
Royal Oak).

Cormac
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Re: Possible meeting date: Sunday 29th January, 2006.

Chris McKenna
On Thu, 26 Jan 2006, Cormac Lawler wrote:

> On 1/26/06, Chris McKenna <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On Thu, 26 Jan 2006, Cormac Lawler wrote:
>>>
>>> One advantage of having meetings online is to include people who
>>> haven't been able to make it to London so far - including Delphine,
>>> Florence and Angela. I'm still happy to meet face to face this
>>> weekend, purely because I'm_in_London! But if there's not much
>>> interest, there's no point. So, who's still interested_and_available?
>>
>> Ah, I'm not in London and haven't the time or money to shell out £30-35
>> every week on getting there. I can come when needed - as long as it isn't
>> every week!
>>
>> Chris
>>
>
> Oh no, but that's what I mean! I live in Manchester, and it's also a
> bit of a hassle for me to get down to London, but it just so happens
> that I'm in London this weekend anyway (and a stone's throw from the
> Royal Oak).
>
> Cormac
Ah I understand now. What a shame we didn't coincide!

Chris
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Re: Possible meeting date: Sunday 29th January, 2006.

Angela-5
In reply to this post by Andrew Walker-3
On 1/27/06, Andrew Walker <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I guess we need to know if we can incorporate on Sunday. I think all
> we need for this is an ok from the Board and positive comments from
> our legal adviser. I see no problem incorporating before we have
> hammered out every last detail of our future relationship with the
> foundation - we know we will be a chapter of some kind and I don't
> think we need to have agreed a contract before we incorporate.

Getting any official answer from the whole Board before Sunday is
unlikely. Are the documents you want the Board to ok really out of
draft now? It would be pointless for us to be approving them if
they're not ready, and although not every detail needs to be hammered
out before you incorporate, it would make it much resolve any
remaining issues now rather than later. Unless there's some reason for
urgency, I'd suggest waiting until everything is finalised and can be
approved by Delphine and ok'd by an actual Board resolution.

Angela.
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Re: Possible meeting date: Sunday 29th January, 2006.

James Forrester-5
In reply to this post by Andrew Walker-3
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Andrew Walker wrote:

> I guess we need to know if we can incorporate on Sunday.

I think that it is premature, really; we still have to finally confirm
the changes, and also wait for Board approval. I would be happy to have
an IRC meeting this weekend, however, if people feel that it would be
necessary.

Yours sincerely,
- --
James D. Forrester
Wikimedia : [[W:en:User:Jdforrester|James F.]]
E-Mail    : [hidden email]
IM (MSN)  : [hidden email]
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Re: Possible meeting date: Sunday 29th January, 2006.

Alison M. Wheeler
>> I guess we need to know if we can incorporate on Sunday.
>
> I think that it is premature, really; we still have to finally confirm
> the changes, and also wait for Board approval. I would be happy to have
> an IRC meeting this weekend, however, if people feel that it would be
> necessary.

Whilst I can certainly understand why people are raising some questions on
how the *Chapter* will work, the *Company* (which forms the basis of the
Charity) is subject to UK law and, as such, has to place that framework
first. It is also the case that we cannot start on the Charity
registration process (ie. start raising money to do "good works") until
the Company completes the registration process, and it will take time.

I am aware that a number of people have felt that we are slightly
'dragging our feet' on this; that there is a level of navel contemplation
going on and a surprise that the forms haven't been submitted yet (ie.
still). In respect of the company formation it is my belief that we
probably *are* in a position to process the paperwork and proceed, and
those signatures on the requisite forms and endpages are easiest done with
everyone in the same place at the same time, indeed the pages before the
final page can actually be amended before the whole set of papers are
submitted (not that one should plan to do such a thing, of course, but it
is an option).

IMHO there is a separation between the operation of the Company/Charity
(with its separate legal identity, concerned with raising money, etc) and
the Chapter (probably more concerned with liaison between and support of
editors) although they may be two faces of the same organisation in
practice. IRC meetings are very suitable for the latter, face2face for the
former.

Alison
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Re: Possible meeting date: Sunday 29th January, 2006.

Andrew Walker-3
On 1/26/06, Alison Wheeler <[hidden email]> wrote:

> >> I guess we need to know if we can incorporate on Sunday.
> >
> > I think that it is premature, really; we still have to finally confirm
> > the changes, and also wait for Board approval. I would be happy to have
> > an IRC meeting this weekend, however, if people feel that it would be
> > necessary.
>
> Whilst I can certainly understand why people are raising some questions on
> how the *Chapter* will work, the *Company* (which forms the basis of the
> Charity) is subject to UK law and, as such, has to place that framework
> first. It is also the case that we cannot start on the Charity
> registration process (ie. start raising money to do "good works") until
> the Company completes the registration process, and it will take time.

Out of interest, how long do the processes of incorporation as a
company and registration as a charity take? I guess the first formal
board meeting will take place between incorporation and registration?

> I am aware that a number of people have felt that we are slightly
> 'dragging our feet' on this; that there is a level of navel contemplation
> going on and a surprise that the forms haven't been submitted yet (ie.
> still). In respect of the company formation it is my belief that we
> probably *are* in a position to process the paperwork and proceed, and
> those signatures on the requisite forms and endpages are easiest done with
> everyone in the same place at the same time, indeed the pages before the
> final page can actually be amended before the whole set of papers are
> submitted (not that one should plan to do such a thing, of course, but it
> is an option).

Do you think the MoA and AoA are ok as they stand or are you
anticipating a positive the legal review?

> IMHO there is a separation between the operation of the Company/Charity
> (with its separate legal identity, concerned with raising money, etc) and
> the Chapter (probably more concerned with liaison between and support of
> editors) although they may be two faces of the same organisation in
> practice. IRC meetings are very suitable for the latter, face2face for the
> former.

I completely agree with you on this one. It may be that the strict
relationship between the company/charity and the chapter will change
with time - it may be sensible to start out with all members of the
company being the chapter and changing this to a subset of the company
members and assorted others being the chapter which could be "managed"
by the company in some way. This is one reason (but not the only one)
why the documents forming the company do not talk about a chapter - or
indeed about wiki*ia.

Andrew
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Re: Possible meeting date: Sunday 29th January, 2006.

Cormac Lawler
In reply to this post by Alison M. Wheeler
On 1/26/06, Alison Wheeler <[hidden email]> wrote:
[snip]

>
> IMHO there is a separation between the operation of the Company/Charity
> (with its separate legal identity, concerned with raising money, etc) and
> the Chapter (probably more concerned with liaison between and support of
> editors) although they may be two faces of the same organisation in
> practice. IRC meetings are very suitable for the latter, face2face for the
> former.
>

I'm still not sure if you are recommending a face to face meeting this
weekend, or whether this was meant in a more general sense. Or have
the plans for this meeting been abandoned for now? I'm asking this on
a slightly selfish note, as my other plans have fallen through, and
might leave London tomorrow. So should I hang on or not?

Cormac
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Re: Possible meeting date: Sunday 29th January, 2006.

Alison Wheeler
Cormax wrote
> I'm still not sure if you are recommending a face to face meeting this
> weekend, or whether this was meant in a more general sense. Or have
> the plans for this meeting been abandoned for now? I'm asking this on
> a slightly selfish note, as my other plans have fallen through, and
> might leave London tomorrow. So should I hang on or not?

In this case I was meaning (initially) the general sense; so far as a
meeting this Sunday is concerned we haven't heard from James (unless I've
missed it - my email has been playing up a bit) and without his paperwork
there'd be no point in a meeting for that purpose. Given it is now end of
play on Friday I'm reading this as being that there is *no* meeting this
Sunday (for the purposes of legal / the company, anyway)

Separately, I was doing some research earlier and noted that all the
correspondance on this list - discussing legal issues too - is available
through a quick Google search as it is publicly acccessible. Especially
given that there have been many matters which really shouldn't be public
pre-registration this is somewhat worrying and, sfaiac, this list should
not be used for company matters once a secure alternative is created.
Matters discussing the improvement and activities of our wiki projects,
etc. are certainly well-served by being here though.

Alison
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Re: Possible meeting date: Sunday 29th January, 2006.

Cormac Lawler
On 1/27/06, Alison Wheeler <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Cormax wrote
> > I'm still not sure if you are recommending a face to face meeting this
> > weekend, or whether this was meant in a more general sense. Or have
> > the plans for this meeting been abandoned for now? I'm asking this on
> > a slightly selfish note, as my other plans have fallen through, and
> > might leave London tomorrow. So should I hang on or not?
>
> In this case I was meaning (initially) the general sense; so far as a
> meeting this Sunday is concerned we haven't heard from James (unless I've
> missed it - my email has been playing up a bit) and without his paperwork
> there'd be no point in a meeting for that purpose. Given it is now end of
> play on Friday I'm reading this as being that there is *no* meeting this
> Sunday (for the purposes of legal / the company, anyway)

Ok, thanks. Passing on what James wrote yesterday: "I think that it
(incorporation) is premature, really; we still have to finally confirm
the changes, and also wait for Board approval. I would be happy to
have an IRC meeting this weekend, however, if people feel that it
would be necessary."

I agree with this - will head back home tomorrow, but would still take
part in an IRC meeting if so desired.

"Cormax" :-)
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