Pronunciation recording tool wanted

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
28 messages Options
12
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Pronunciation recording tool wanted

Lars Aronsson
In Wiktionary, it's very convenient that some words
have sound illustrations, e.g.
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/go%C3%BBter

These audio bites are simple 2-3 second OGG files, e.g.
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Fr-go%C3%BBter.ogg

but they are limited in number. It would be very
easy to record more of them, but before you get
started it takes some time to learn the details,
and then you need to upload to Commons and specify
a license, and provide a description, ... It's not
very likely that the person who does all that is
also a good voice in each desired language.

Here's a better plan:

Provide a tool on the toolserver, or any other
server, having a simple link syntax that specifies
the language code and the text, e.g.
http://toolserver.org/mytool.php?lang=fr&text=gouter

The tool uses a cookie, that remembers that this
user has agreed to submit contributions using cc0.
At the first visit, this question is asked as a
click-through license.

The user is now prompted with the text (from the URL)
and recording starts when pressing a button. The
user says the word, and presses the button again.
The tool saves the OGG sound, uploads it to Commons
with the filename fr-gouter-XYZ789.ogg and
the cc0 declaration and all metadata, placing it
in a category of recorded but unverified words.

Another user can record the same word, and it will
be given another random letter-digit code.

As a separate part of the tool, other volunteers are
asked to verify or rate (1 to 5 stars) the recordings
available in a given language. The rating is stored
as categories on commons.

Now, a separate procedure (manual or a bot job) can
pick words that need new or improved recordings,
and list them (with links to the tool) on a normal
wiki page.

I know HTML supports uploading of a file, but I don't
know how to solve the recording of sound directly to
a web service. Perhaps this could be a Skype application?
I have no idea. Please just be creative. It should be
solvable, because this is 2013 and not 2003.


--
   Lars Aronsson ([hidden email])
   Aronsson Datateknik - http://aronsson.se



_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Pronunciation recording tool wanted

Brian Wolff
On 3/12/13, Lars Aronsson <[hidden email]> wrote:

> In Wiktionary, it's very convenient that some words
> have sound illustrations, e.g.
> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/go%C3%BBter
>
> These audio bites are simple 2-3 second OGG files, e.g.
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Fr-go%C3%BBter.ogg
>
> but they are limited in number. It would be very
> easy to record more of them, but before you get
> started it takes some time to learn the details,
> and then you need to upload to Commons and specify
> a license, and provide a description, ... It's not
> very likely that the person who does all that is
> also a good voice in each desired language.
>
> Here's a better plan:
>
> Provide a tool on the toolserver, or any other
> server, having a simple link syntax that specifies
> the language code and the text, e.g.
> http://toolserver.org/mytool.php?lang=fr&text=gouter
>
> The tool uses a cookie, that remembers that this
> user has agreed to submit contributions using cc0.
> At the first visit, this question is asked as a
> click-through license.
>
> The user is now prompted with the text (from the URL)
> and recording starts when pressing a button. The
> user says the word, and presses the button again.
> The tool saves the OGG sound, uploads it to Commons
> with the filename fr-gouter-XYZ789.ogg and
> the cc0 declaration and all metadata, placing it
> in a category of recorded but unverified words.
>
> Another user can record the same word, and it will
> be given another random letter-digit code.
>
> As a separate part of the tool, other volunteers are
> asked to verify or rate (1 to 5 stars) the recordings
> available in a given language. The rating is stored
> as categories on commons.
>
> Now, a separate procedure (manual or a bot job) can
> pick words that need new or improved recordings,
> and list them (with links to the tool) on a normal
> wiki page.
>
> I know HTML supports uploading of a file, but I don't
> know how to solve the recording of sound directly to
> a web service. Perhaps this could be a Skype application?
> I have no idea. Please just be creative. It should be
> solvable, because this is 2013 and not 2003.
>
>
> --
>    Lars Aronsson ([hidden email])
>    Aronsson Datateknik - http://aronsson.se
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

It was solvable with a java applet (or flash, but that's usually
considered evil) back in 2003. However it still requires someone to
actually do it.

With modern web browsers, you can do it with html5/webRTC [1].

Someone could probably make an extension that integrates with
MediaWiki, so all user has to do is go to special:recordAudio and they
could record/upload from there. Perhaps that would make a good gsoc
project (Not sure if the scope is big enough, but could probably add
stuff like making a slick ui to make it big enough).

[1] http://www.html5rocks.com/en/tutorials/getusermedia/intro/

_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Pronunciation recording tool wanted

Tyler Romeo
On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 9:29 PM, Brian Wolff <[hidden email]> wrote:

> It was solvable with a java applet (or flash, but that's usually
> considered evil) back in 2003. However it still requires someone to
> actually do it.
>

For security purposes, I'm really hoping we don't plan on using a Java
applet. :P

*--*
*Tyler Romeo*
Stevens Institute of Technology, Class of 2015
Major in Computer Science
www.whizkidztech.com | [hidden email]
_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Pronunciation recording tool wanted

Matthew Flaschen-2
In reply to this post by Lars Aronsson
On 03/12/2013 09:01 PM, Lars Aronsson wrote:
> Provide a tool on the toolserver, or any other
> server, having a simple link syntax that specifies
> the language code and the text, e.g.
> http://toolserver.org/mytool.php?lang=fr&text=gouter

Good idea, though I agree with Brian a special page would be preferable.

> The tool uses a cookie, that remembers that this
> user has agreed to submit contributions using cc0.
> At the first visit, this question is asked as a
> click-through license.

Why CC0 (public domain)?  Your example
(http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Fr-go%C3%BBter.ogg) is CC-BY,
which is not public domain and requires attribution (which I think all
Wikimedia projects do for text).  I'd say CC-BY-SA or CC-BY would be a
better default.

Matt Flaschen

_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Pronunciation recording tool wanted

Brian Wolff
In reply to this post by Tyler Romeo
On 3/12/13, Tyler Romeo <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 9:29 PM, Brian Wolff <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> It was solvable with a java applet (or flash, but that's usually
>> considered evil) back in 2003. However it still requires someone to
>> actually do it.
>>
>
> For security purposes, I'm really hoping we don't plan on using a Java
> applet. :P
>
> *--*
> *Tyler Romeo*
> Stevens Institute of Technology, Class of 2015
> Major in Computer Science
> www.whizkidztech.com | [hidden email]
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

Why? There's nothing inherently insecure about java applets. We
already use them to play ogg files on lame browsers that don't support
html5.

--bawolff

_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Pronunciation recording tool wanted

Tyler Romeo
On Mar 12, 2013 10:08 PM, "Brian Wolff" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On 3/12/13, Tyler Romeo <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 9:29 PM, Brian Wolff <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >> It was solvable with a java applet (or flash, but that's usually
> >> considered evil) back in 2003. However it still requires someone to
> >> actually do it.
> >>
> >
> > For security purposes, I'm really hoping we don't plan on using a Java
> > applet. :P
> >
> > *--*
> > *Tyler Romeo*
> > Stevens Institute of Technology, Class of 2015
> > Major in Computer Science
> > www.whizkidztech.com | [hidden email]
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
> Why? There's nothing inherently insecure about java applets. We
> already use them to play ogg files on lame browsers that don't support
> html5.
>
> --bawolff
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

Can you say that for sure? With the number of exploits in Java over the
past few months, everybody I know has already disabled their browser plugin.

--Tyler Romeo
_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Pronunciation recording tool wanted

Brian Wolff
On 3/12/13, Tyler Romeo <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Mar 12, 2013 10:08 PM, "Brian Wolff" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On 3/12/13, Tyler Romeo <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 9:29 PM, Brian Wolff <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >
>> >> It was solvable with a java applet (or flash, but that's usually
>> >> considered evil) back in 2003. However it still requires someone to
>> >> actually do it.
>> >>
>> >
>> > For security purposes, I'm really hoping we don't plan on using a Java
>> > applet. :P
>> >
>> > *--*
>> > *Tyler Romeo*
>> > Stevens Institute of Technology, Class of 2015
>> > Major in Computer Science
>> > www.whizkidztech.com | [hidden email]
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Wikitech-l mailing list
>> > [hidden email]
>> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>>
>> Why? There's nothing inherently insecure about java applets. We
>> already use them to play ogg files on lame browsers that don't support
>> html5.
>>
>> --bawolff
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikitech-l mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
> Can you say that for sure? With the number of exploits in Java over the
> past few months, everybody I know has already disabled their browser plugin.
>
> --Tyler Romeo
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

Those types of people will probably have an html5 capable web browser :P

Let me rephrase my previous statement as, using java as a fallback
doesn't introduce any new issues that wouldn't be already there if we
didn't use java as a fallback. (Since we'd only fallback to java if
the user already had it installed). Furthermore, I imagine (or hope at
least) that oracle fixes the security vulnerabilities of their plugin
as they are discovered.

-bawolff

_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Pronunciation recording tool wanted

K. Peachey-2
In reply to this post by Brian Wolff
On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 11:29 AM, Brian Wolff <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Someone could probably make an extension that integrates with
> MediaWiki, so all user has to do is go to special:recordAudio and they
> could record/upload from there. Perhaps that would make a good gsoc
> project (Not sure if the scope is big enough, but could probably add
> stuff like making a slick ui to make it big enough).
>

That wouldn't be a bad project for GSoC as it isn't too large so it means
we could actually see some results, And if it was too small, The student
could probably do a couple of smaller projects (it being one) then focus on
one after the other.
_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Pronunciation recording tool wanted

Antoine Musso-3
Le 13/03/13 04:07, K. Peachey wrote:
> That wouldn't be a bad project for GSoC as it isn't too large so it means
> we could actually see some results, And if it was too small, The student
> could probably do a couple of smaller projects (it being one) then focus on
> one after the other.

The smaller big project: get its code deployed on the cluster and
enabled for all wikis!

--
Antoine "hashar" Musso


_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Pronunciation recording tool wanted

Nikola Smolenski-2
In reply to this post by Lars Aronsson
On 13/03/13 02:01, Lars Aronsson wrote:
> Provide a tool on the toolserver, or any other
> server, having a simple link syntax that specifies
> the language code and the text, e.g.
> http://toolserver.org/mytool.php?lang=fr&text=gouter

I was thinking about this already and yes, this is a great idea! :)

A very nice website that does this already is www.forvo.com but they
claim by-nc-sa licence. But the way it works could be used as inspiration.

A possible additional feature would be for speakers to indicate their
locality, age, accent etc. (so that words differently pronounced in
different accents of the same language would be marked as such).

Another possible feature would be some sort of verification or someone
might vandalize by cursing or similar (on Forvo this is done by voting).

_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Pronunciation recording tool wanted

Nikola Smolenski-2
In reply to this post by Brian Wolff
On 13/03/13 02:29, Brian Wolff wrote:
> It was solvable with a java applet (or flash, but that's usually
> considered evil) back in 2003. However it still requires someone to
> actually do it.

I believe Flash should be Ok if made to work on gnash but am not sure if
gnash supports everything needed.

_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Pronunciation recording tool wanted

Nikola Smolenski-2
In reply to this post by Matthew Flaschen-2
On 13/03/13 02:48, Matthew Flaschen wrote:

>> The tool uses a cookie, that remembers that this
>> user has agreed to submit contributions using cc0.
>> At the first visit, this question is asked as a
>> click-through license.
>
> Why CC0 (public domain)?  Your example
> (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Fr-go%C3%BBter.ogg) is CC-BY,
> which is not public domain and requires attribution (which I think all
> Wikimedia projects do for text).  I'd say CC-BY-SA or CC-BY would be a
> better default.

I am not sure about copyrightability of a pronunciation of a single word.

_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Pronunciation recording tool wanted

Matthew Flaschen-2
On 03/13/2013 03:17 AM, Nikola Smolenski wrote:
>> Why CC0 (public domain)?  Your example
>> (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Fr-go%C3%BBter.ogg) is CC-BY,
>> which is not public domain and requires attribution (which I think all
>> Wikimedia projects do for text).  I'd say CC-BY-SA or CC-BY would be a
>> better default.
>
> I am not sure about copyrightability of a pronunciation of a single word.

Neither am I, but if it's licensed under one of those and a court finds
it's not copyrightable, so be it.  It still seems reasonable to use an
attribution license.

Matt Flaschen

_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Pronunciation recording tool wanted

Luke Welling WMF
It would be a good application for mobile too.

In browser would be reasonably easy with Flash, and can be done with
JavaScript in modern browsers but not yet in a consistent way.  There is a
W3 spec but using a library like
https://github.com/jussi-kalliokoski/sink.js/ would be easier than writing
per browser versions to take into account current real world variation.

A mobile app, or a few native apps for dominant platforms presumably expose
a cleaner interface to what is a core device on that hardware, rather than
an optional, variable peripheral on computers.

Luke


On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 4:03 AM, Matthew Flaschen
<[hidden email]>wrote:

> On 03/13/2013 03:17 AM, Nikola Smolenski wrote:
> >> Why CC0 (public domain)?  Your example
> >> (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Fr-go%C3%BBter.ogg) is CC-BY,
> >> which is not public domain and requires attribution (which I think all
> >> Wikimedia projects do for text).  I'd say CC-BY-SA or CC-BY would be a
> >> better default.
> >
> > I am not sure about copyrightability of a pronunciation of a single word.
>
> Neither am I, but if it's licensed under one of those and a court finds
> it's not copyrightable, so be it.  It still seems reasonable to use an
> attribution license.
>
> Matt Flaschen
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Pronunciation recording tool wanted

Lars Aronsson
In reply to this post by Nikola Smolenski-2
On 03/13/2013 08:16 AM, Nikola Smolenski wrote:
> A very nice website that does this already is www.forvo.com but they
> claim by-nc-sa licence. But the way it works could be used as inspiration.

Forvo looks very nice, and if they can do the job,
I'm happy that we don't have to. We should try
to collaborate with them.

However, when I try it, it says "Oops! The recorder
is having a fix. Please, try again later. Thanks..",
both yesterday and today.


--
   Lars Aronsson ([hidden email])
   Aronsson Datateknik - http://aronsson.se



_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Pronunciation recording tool wanted

Matthew Flaschen-2
On 03/14/2013 05:49 PM, Lars Aronsson wrote:
> Forvo looks very nice, and if they can do the job,
> I'm happy that we don't have to. We should try
> to collaborate with them.

Unfortunately, their license (non-commercial) is not free as in freedom,
and not acceptable for Wikimedia projects.

It's possible they might be able to change that license for particular
recordings.

Matt Flaschen

_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Pronunciation recording tool wanted

Lars Aronsson
In reply to this post by Nikola Smolenski-2
On 03/13/2013 08:16 AM, Nikola Smolenski wrote:
> A very nice website that does this already is www.forvo.com but they
> claim by-nc-sa licence.

Ah, now I see this detail: Yes, the -NC- clause
in their license makes them useless for us.
That's a pity.

Having been through the great license shift in
OpenStreetMap, I think we should use cc0 as
far as we can. It remains my suggestion that
any tool should demand cc0, but of course that
will be the choice of the tool developer.


--
   Lars Aronsson ([hidden email])
   Aronsson Datateknik - http://aronsson.se



_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

enwiki dump -- retrying dumping database tables on partial failure?

Neil Harris
Dear Wikimedia ops team,

The most recent enwiki dump now seems to have finished _almost_
successfully, apart from the dumping of the database metadata tables
such as the pages table and the various links tables, almost all of
which have failed.

I wonder if there is any chance someone could give this a kick, and
re-try the dumping of these tables to finish the dump?

Since this seems to have happened several times now, could it be worth
considering automating re-trying in this sort of situation, to improve
dump reliability for the future without needing manual intervention?

Thanks,

Neil


_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: enwiki dump -- retrying dumping database tables on partial failure?

Ariel Glenn WMF
Στις 14-03-2013, ημέρα Πεμ, και ώρα 23:24 +0000, ο/η Neil Harris έγραψε:
> Dear Wikimedia ops team,
>
> The most recent enwiki dump now seems to have finished _almost_
> successfully, apart from the dumping of the database metadata tables
> such as the pages table and the various links tables, almost all of
> which have failed.
>
> I wonder if there is any chance someone could give this a kick, and
> re-try the dumping of these tables to finish the dump?

It's rerunning the tables now.

> Since this seems to have happened several times now, could it be worth
> considering automating re-trying in this sort of situation, to improve
> dump reliability for the future without needing manual intervention?
>
Because the reasons for failure are varied (ranging from hardware
failure to dbs being unreachable to broken MediaWiki code being
deployed), automating restarts isn't practical; typically someone needs
to find out what the underlying cause is and take appropriate action.

Ariel




_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: enwiki dump -- retrying dumping database tables on partial failure?

Neil Harris
On 14/03/13 23:39, Ariel T. Glenn wrote:

> Στις 14-03-2013, ημέρα Πεμ, και ώρα 23:24 +0000, ο/η Neil Harris έγραψε:
>> Dear Wikimedia ops team,
>>
>> The most recent enwiki dump now seems to have finished _almost_
>> successfully, apart from the dumping of the database metadata tables
>> such as the pages table and the various links tables, almost all of
>> which have failed.
>>
>> I wonder if there is any chance someone could give this a kick, and
>> re-try the dumping of these tables to finish the dump?
> It's rerunning the tables now.

Thank you!

>
>> Since this seems to have happened several times now, could it be worth
>> considering automating re-trying in this sort of situation, to improve
>> dump reliability for the future without needing manual intervention?
>>
> Because the reasons for failure are varied (ranging from hardware
> failure to dbs being unreachable to broken MediaWiki code being
> deployed), automating restarts isn't practical; typically someone needs
> to find out what the underlying cause is and take appropriate action.
>
> Ariel
>

I should have thought of this -- sorry for the overly simplistic suggestion,

Thanks again,

Neil


_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
12