Proposal: Commons Force

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Proposal: Commons Force

Jovan Cormac
I'd like to propose a project I tentatively refer to as "Commons Force" (Meta link: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/CommonsForce).

Commons Force is a wiki used to coordinate a force of volunteers who *actively* educate people about the concepts of public domain and the Creative Commons.

That entails those volunteers systematically searching the internet and media archives such as Flickr for PD and CC material wrongly labelled as being "copyright, all rights reserved" and the likes, and notifying the person who wrongly used the label about the problem (using whatever means are provided by the site), along with a link to a small wiki designed exclusively to educate about PD and CC.

The goal is *not* to threaten those people in any way, and messages sent will never contain any threats, whether legal, moral or personal. Rather, the project aims to educate the many, many internet users who don't worry about rights at all, because they truly don't know jack about them. They might know copyright, but overestimate its reach and/or not be aware that there are alternatives. When being told about the wide world of rights and how copyright alternatives like Creative Commons can promote access to free knowledge they might consider re-licensing most or all of their works.

In essence, what's being proposed is a Wiki that acts as a complement to the Open-source Ticket Request System on Commons. Instead of receiving license information about media on Commons, the idea is to send out license information about media on the internet to those whom it concerns.

Since this would obviously promote both the free access to knowledge and people's awareness of key open content concepts like PD and CC, the proposal is in line with the very heart of Wikimedia's goals.


Your opinions & input are more than welcome at the project's discussion page, http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:CommonsForce.


Cheers,
Jovan Cormac
--
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Re: Proposal: Commons Force

Michael Dale-2
I think a small interactive quiz or 30-60 sec videos at point of upload
/ contribution.. may help "encourage" people to get informed about these
subjects and properly tag the media. For media pulled from external
archive we should ideally only support importing compatible licensed media

I don't think there is an issue of lack of quality documentation so much
as reading that documentation is not a literal barrier to contributing.
And possibly as you outline more people reaching out to inform.

--michael

Jovan Cormac wrote:

> I'd like to propose a project I tentatively refer to as "Commons Force" (Meta link: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/CommonsForce).
>
> Commons Force is a wiki used to coordinate a force of volunteers who *actively* educate people about the concepts of public domain and the Creative Commons.
>
> That entails those volunteers systematically searching the internet and media archives such as Flickr for PD and CC material wrongly labelled as being "copyright, all rights reserved" and the likes, and notifying the person who wrongly used the label about the problem (using whatever means are provided by the site), along with a link to a small wiki designed exclusively to educate about PD and CC.
>
> The goal is *not* to threaten those people in any way, and messages sent will never contain any threats, whether legal, moral or personal. Rather, the project aims to educate the many, many internet users who don't worry about rights at all, because they truly don't know jack about them. They might know copyright, but overestimate its reach and/or not be aware that there are alternatives. When being told about the wide world of rights and how copyright alternatives like Creative Commons can promote access to free knowledge they might consider re-licensing most or all of their works.
>
> In essence, what's being proposed is a Wiki that acts as a complement to the Open-source Ticket Request System on Commons. Instead of receiving license information about media on Commons, the idea is to send out license information about media on the internet to those whom it concerns.
>
> Since this would obviously promote both the free access to knowledge and people's awareness of key open content concepts like PD and CC, the proposal is in line with the very heart of Wikimedia's goals.
>
>
> Your opinions & input are more than welcome at the project's discussion page, http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:CommonsForce.
>
>
> Cheers,
> Jovan Cormac
>  


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Re: Proposal: Commons Force

Gerard Meijssen-3
Hoi,
I like the idea of a video that explains copyright and licenses. It is
however important that this video is subtitled.. What is the status of
subtitling for your software ??
Thanks,
        GerardM

2009/9/6 Michael Dale <[hidden email]>

> I think a small interactive quiz or 30-60 sec videos at point of upload
> / contribution.. may help "encourage" people to get informed about these
> subjects and properly tag the media. For media pulled from external
> archive we should ideally only support importing compatible licensed media
>
> I don't think there is an issue of lack of quality documentation so much
> as reading that documentation is not a literal barrier to contributing.
> And possibly as you outline more people reaching out to inform.
>
> --michael
>
> Jovan Cormac wrote:
> > I'd like to propose a project I tentatively refer to as "Commons Force"
> (Meta link: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/CommonsForce).
> >
> > Commons Force is a wiki used to coordinate a force of volunteers who
> *actively* educate people about the concepts of public domain and the
> Creative Commons.
> >
> > That entails those volunteers systematically searching the internet and
> media archives such as Flickr for PD and CC material wrongly labelled as
> being "copyright, all rights reserved" and the likes, and notifying the
> person who wrongly used the label about the problem (using whatever means
> are provided by the site), along with a link to a small wiki designed
> exclusively to educate about PD and CC.
> >
> > The goal is *not* to threaten those people in any way, and messages sent
> will never contain any threats, whether legal, moral or personal. Rather,
> the project aims to educate the many, many internet users who don't worry
> about rights at all, because they truly don't know jack about them. They
> might know copyright, but overestimate its reach and/or not be aware that
> there are alternatives. When being told about the wide world of rights and
> how copyright alternatives like Creative Commons can promote access to free
> knowledge they might consider re-licensing most or all of their works.
> >
> > In essence, what's being proposed is a Wiki that acts as a complement to
> the Open-source Ticket Request System on Commons. Instead of receiving
> license information about media on Commons, the idea is to send out license
> information about media on the internet to those whom it concerns.
> >
> > Since this would obviously promote both the free access to knowledge and
> people's awareness of key open content concepts like PD and CC, the proposal
> is in line with the very heart of Wikimedia's goals.
> >
> >
> > Your opinions & input are more than welcome at the project's discussion
> page, http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:CommonsForce.
> >
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Jovan Cormac
> >
>
>
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> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
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Re: Proposal: Commons Force

Jovan Cormac
In reply to this post by Michael Dale-2
Michael, I'm afraid you didn't understand the proposal.

The proposal has nothing to do whatsoever with people contributing to
Commons not being educated about licenses. It's about contacting to
people *outside* of Commons, people who may not be involved in any
Wikimedia project, and tell them about PD or CC media wrongly tagged
with copyright notices *on their own websites* or their accounts on
media archives like Flickr.

Please read again if in doubt.

Cheers,
Jovan Cormac


Michael Dale wrote:

> I think a small interactive quiz or 30-60 sec videos at point of upload
> / contribution.. may help "encourage" people to get informed about these
> subjects and properly tag the media. For media pulled from external
> archive we should ideally only support importing compatible licensed media
>
> I don't think there is an issue of lack of quality documentation so much
> as reading that documentation is not a literal barrier to contributing.
> And possibly as you outline more people reaching out to inform.
>
> --michael
>
> Jovan Cormac wrote:
>  
>> I'd like to propose a project I tentatively refer to as "Commons Force" (Meta link: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/CommonsForce).
>>
>> Commons Force is a wiki used to coordinate a force of volunteers who *actively* educate people about the concepts of public domain and the Creative Commons.
>>
>> That entails those volunteers systematically searching the internet and media archives such as Flickr for PD and CC material wrongly labelled as being "copyright, all rights reserved" and the likes, and notifying the person who wrongly used the label about the problem (using whatever means are provided by the site), along with a link to a small wiki designed exclusively to educate about PD and CC.
>>
>> The goal is *not* to threaten those people in any way, and messages sent will never contain any threats, whether legal, moral or personal. Rather, the project aims to educate the many, many internet users who don't worry about rights at all, because they truly don't know jack about them. They might know copyright, but overestimate its reach and/or not be aware that there are alternatives. When being told about the wide world of rights and how copyright alternatives like Creative Commons can promote access to free knowledge they might consider re-licensing most or all of their works.
>>
>> In essence, what's being proposed is a Wiki that acts as a complement to the Open-source Ticket Request System on Commons. Instead of receiving license information about media on Commons, the idea is to send out license information about media on the internet to those whom it concerns.
>>
>> Since this would obviously promote both the free access to knowledge and people's awareness of key open content concepts like PD and CC, the proposal is in line with the very heart of Wikimedia's goals.
>>
>>
>> Your opinions & input are more than welcome at the project's discussion page, http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:CommonsForce.
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Jovan Cormac
>>  
>>    

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Re: Proposal: Commons Force

Federico Leva (Nemo)
Jovan Cormac, 06/09/2009 20:37:
> The proposal has nothing to do whatsoever with people contributing to
> Commons not being educated about licenses. It's about contacting to
> people *outside* of Commons, people who may not be involved in any
> Wikimedia project, and tell them about PD or CC media wrongly tagged
> with copyright notices *on their own websites* or their accounts on
> media archives like Flickr.

A

> Michael Dale wrote:
>> [...] small interactive quiz or 30-60 sec videos [...]

may help, however.

Nemo

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Re: Proposal: Commons Force

wiki-lists
In reply to this post by Jovan Cormac
Jovan Cormac wrote:

> Michael, I'm afraid you didn't understand the proposal.
>
> The proposal has nothing to do whatsoever with people contributing to
> Commons not being educated about licenses. It's about contacting to
> people *outside* of Commons, people who may not be involved in any
> Wikimedia project, and tell them about PD or CC media wrongly tagged
> with copyright notices *on their own websites* or their accounts on
> media archives like Flickr.
>
> Please read again if in doubt.
>

Firstly, people are NOT meant to be uploading content to flickr that
they did not take themselves. If someone blogs the photo from flickr
then the flickr system will tag it as the work of the account that IOW
it will be falsely attributed, and the downstream user will be in
violation of the CC license.

Secondly, just because YOU think something is PD or licensed under
Creative Commons does not mean that it is in reality so. For example
many images on flickr have been lifted from the web and the account
uploading them falsely applies a CC license to everything uploaded.

Leave well alone.

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Re: Proposal: Commons Force

Jovan Cormac
[hidden email] wrote:
> Firstly, people are NOT meant to be uploading content to flickr that
> they did not take themselves.
They do, though.

> If someone blogs the photo from flickr
> then the flickr system will tag it as the work of the account that IOW
> it will be falsely attributed, and the downstream user will be in
> violation of the CC license.
>  
True.

> Secondly, just because YOU think something is PD or licensed under
> Creative Commons does not mean that it is in reality so. For example
> many images on flickr have been lifted from the web and the account
> uploading them falsely applies a CC license to everything uploaded.
>
>  
If that was true, it would mean that any worrying about licensing on
Commons is void as well, because after all, "just because some Commons
user thinks something is public domain doesn't mean it really is".
Obviously, there *are* lots of cases where media files clearly are
copyrighted, and cases where they are clearly in public domain. Those
cases are the interesting ones, and the one we should focus on.

Cheers,
Jovan Cormac

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Re: Proposal: Commons Force

Michael Dale-4
In reply to this post by Gerard Meijssen-3
For static timed text mv-embed library works reasonably well. It has a
simple interface for selecting the text track / language. What remains
to be done is an interface for people to collaboratively edit and
contribute the original transcript and translations. (some work has been
done in that area) but have not had time to polish it up into something
usable yet.

--michael

Gerard Meijssen wrote:

> Hoi,
> I like the idea of a video that explains copyright and licenses. It is
> however important that this video is subtitled.. What is the status of
> subtitling for your software ??
> Thanks,
>         GerardM
>
> 2009/9/6 Michael Dale <[hidden email]>
>
>  
>> I think a small interactive quiz or 30-60 sec videos at point of upload
>> / contribution.. may help "encourage" people to get informed about these
>> subjects and properly tag the media. For media pulled from external
>> archive we should ideally only support importing compatible licensed media
>>
>> I don't think there is an issue of lack of quality documentation so much
>> as reading that documentation is not a literal barrier to contributing.
>> And possibly as you outline more people reaching out to inform.
>>
>> --michael
>>
>> Jovan Cormac wrote:
>>    
>>> I'd like to propose a project I tentatively refer to as "Commons Force"
>>>      
>> (Meta link: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/CommonsForce).
>>    
>>> Commons Force is a wiki used to coordinate a force of volunteers who
>>>      
>> *actively* educate people about the concepts of public domain and the
>> Creative Commons.
>>    
>>> That entails those volunteers systematically searching the internet and
>>>      
>> media archives such as Flickr for PD and CC material wrongly labelled as
>> being "copyright, all rights reserved" and the likes, and notifying the
>> person who wrongly used the label about the problem (using whatever means
>> are provided by the site), along with a link to a small wiki designed
>> exclusively to educate about PD and CC.
>>    
>>> The goal is *not* to threaten those people in any way, and messages sent
>>>      
>> will never contain any threats, whether legal, moral or personal. Rather,
>> the project aims to educate the many, many internet users who don't worry
>> about rights at all, because they truly don't know jack about them. They
>> might know copyright, but overestimate its reach and/or not be aware that
>> there are alternatives. When being told about the wide world of rights and
>> how copyright alternatives like Creative Commons can promote access to free
>> knowledge they might consider re-licensing most or all of their works.
>>    
>>> In essence, what's being proposed is a Wiki that acts as a complement to
>>>      
>> the Open-source Ticket Request System on Commons. Instead of receiving
>> license information about media on Commons, the idea is to send out license
>> information about media on the internet to those whom it concerns.
>>    
>>> Since this would obviously promote both the free access to knowledge and
>>>      
>> people's awareness of key open content concepts like PD and CC, the proposal
>> is in line with the very heart of Wikimedia's goals.
>>    
>>> Your opinions & input are more than welcome at the project's discussion
>>>      
>> page, http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:CommonsForce.
>>    
>>> Cheers,
>>> Jovan Cormac
>>>
>>>      
>> _______________________________________________
>> foundation-l mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>
>>    
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Re: Proposal: Commons Force

Bod Notbod
In reply to this post by Jovan Cormac
On the subject of Flickr, I have a proposal.

I'd like to see an option given to Flickr users to check "license for
use on Wikipedia" which would be an easy way for people to

a) make their pictures available to us and

b) easier to find by Wikipedians.

It could be argued that it should say "license for use on Wikimedia
Commons" but I don't think that would have the recognition factor that
Wikipedia has.

Either way, Flickr could provide a "what's this?" link which would
take the Flickr user to a page with the relevant license details and
spell out what choosing the license means."

I considered posting something like this on "Wikimedia Strategy" but
it really isn't a strategy. It's not a "five year plan" type of thing,
not least because it's something that Flickr would be doing rather
than the WMF.

What do people think of this idea? Are there any problems with it? If
this gets general support I would be happy to approach Flickr myself
although I am a mere jobbing Wikipedian, so I have no reason to
believe that Flickr would take me very seriously. It would preferably
be taken up by someone with a higher profile.

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Re: Proposal: Commons Force

Jovan Cormac
That's a great idea. They might even do it...

Cheers,
Jovan Cormac


Bod Notbod wrote:

> On the subject of Flickr, I have a proposal.
>
> I'd like to see an option given to Flickr users to check "license for
> use on Wikipedia" which would be an easy way for people to
>
> a) make their pictures available to us and
>
> b) easier to find by Wikipedians.
>
> It could be argued that it should say "license for use on Wikimedia
> Commons" but I don't think that would have the recognition factor that
> Wikipedia has.
>
> Either way, Flickr could provide a "what's this?" link which would
> take the Flickr user to a page with the relevant license details and
> spell out what choosing the license means."
>
> I considered posting something like this on "Wikimedia Strategy" but
> it really isn't a strategy. It's not a "five year plan" type of thing,
> not least because it's something that Flickr would be doing rather
> than the WMF.
>
> What do people think of this idea? Are there any problems with it? If
> this gets general support I would be happy to approach Flickr myself
> although I am a mere jobbing Wikipedian, so I have no reason to
> believe that Flickr would take me very seriously. It would preferably
> be taken up by someone with a higher profile.
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
>  


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Re: Proposal: Commons Force

Bod Notbod
On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 4:00 PM, Jovan Cormac<[hidden email]> wrote:

> That's a great idea. They might even do it...

Thanks! :o)

I can't think of any huge reasons for them not to. I don't think it
would reduce their traffic. I suppose there's "why should they?" I
think it would be an improvement to the user experience and I'm sure
Flickr would want to stay ahead of competing picture hosts. But I'm
not entirely sure that's a convincing argument. Even though I would
think that it wouldn't be hard for them to introduce that
functionality, the "why should they?" argument perhaps needs to be
addressed with something a bit more convincing.

I'm not really familiar with Picasa and I don't know whether they have
licensing schemes, but if they do it might be worth approaching them
too.

Personally I would be a proud Flickr user if I uploaded something and
someone else placed it in an article.

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Re: Proposal: Commons Force

metasj
I met a few people helping out with Wikimania, including the lead
photographer on site, who got involved with the local Wikimedia
community after their photostream was found on Flickr and incorporated
into Wikipedia (es:wp)...  Discovering your work has been used by
someone else is always a nice icebreaker.

On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 11:30 AM, Bod Notbod<[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 4:00 PM, Jovan Cormac<[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> That's a great idea. They might even do it...
>
> Thanks! :o)
>
> I can't think of any huge reasons for them not to. I don't think it
> would reduce their traffic. I suppose there's "why should they?"

I expect Flickr is friendly towards WP; they've always been a pretty
open culture.  That may be reason enough.

Sj

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Re: Proposal: Commons Force

wiki-lists
In reply to this post by Jovan Cormac
Jovan Cormac wrote:

> [hidden email] wrote:
>
>> Secondly, just because YOU think something is PD or licensed under
>> Creative Commons does not mean that it is in reality so. For example
>> many images on flickr have been lifted from the web and the account
>> uploading them falsely applies a CC license to everything uploaded.
>>
>>  
> If that was true, it would mean that any worrying about licensing on
> Commons is void as well, because after all, "just because some Commons
> user thinks something is public domain doesn't mean it really is".
> Obviously, there *are* lots of cases where media files clearly are
> copyrighted, and cases where they are clearly in public domain. Those
> cases are the interesting ones, and the one we should focus on.
>

I'll remind you of the case the other year where a ARR self portrait
that a 14yo had taken, was used for the cover art of a porn video.
Apparently they'd found it on a Public Domain site.

Every organization that has ever wanted to use one of my CC'd images
from flickr has asked. Anyone, bloggers notwithstanding, not doing so is
an ass. There are far too many people out there that slap CC on images
that they have found on the web under the mistaken impression that if
its on the internet it is public domain. Most organizations make sure
they have some paper trail of permission.

You'll find my stuff on sites with a CC-NC license and you'll also find
the same image on other sites without a CC license. How a site displays
one of my images is between me and the site itself, the license I grant
to one site maybe completely different to that given to another.

Simply because YOU have seen the image with a CC license on one site
does not mean that another site isn't also using the image correctly.
The only person that can tell whether the work is being used correctly
or not is me, and the only person that decide whether to complain about
a incorrectly used image is also me.

Quite frankly I'd be furious if someone took it upon themselves to
interfere in any relationship I have with users of my images.



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Re: Proposal: Commons Force

Geoffrey Plourde
I agree, vigilantism is not necessary and counter productive. The Commons Force proposal represents a clear and present danger, both for whoever hosts it and participates in it. It is not for a third party to intervene in a contract between two people and only two people. If the Commons Force restricted itself to documenting potential copyvios and reporting them to the copyright owners, I could see some merit to the proposal. Otherwise it will do more harm than good.




________________________________
From: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, September 7, 2009 11:42:46 AM
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Proposal: Commons Force

Jovan Cormac wrote:

> [hidden email] wrote:
>
>> Secondly, just because YOU think something is PD or licensed under
>> Creative Commons does not mean that it is in reality so. For example
>> many images on flickr have been lifted from the web and the account
>> uploading them falsely applies a CC license to everything uploaded.
>>
>>  
> If that was true, it would mean that any worrying about licensing on
> Commons is void as well, because after all, "just because some Commons
> user thinks something is public domain doesn't mean it really is".
> Obviously, there *are* lots of cases where media files clearly are
> copyrighted, and cases where they are clearly in public domain. Those
> cases are the interesting ones, and the one we should focus on.
>

I'll remind you of the case the other year where a ARR self portrait
that a 14yo had taken, was used for the cover art of a porn video.
Apparently they'd found it on a Public Domain site.

Every organization that has ever wanted to use one of my CC'd images
from flickr has asked. Anyone, bloggers notwithstanding, not doing so is
an ass. There are far too many people out there that slap CC on images
that they have found on the web under the mistaken impression that if
its on the internet it is public domain. Most organizations make sure
they have some paper trail of permission.

You'll find my stuff on sites with a CC-NC license and you'll also find
the same image on other sites without a CC license. How a site displays
one of my images is between me and the site itself, the license I grant
to one site maybe completely different to that given to another.

Simply because YOU have seen the image with a CC license on one site
does not mean that another site isn't also using the image correctly.
The only person that can tell whether the work is being used correctly
or not is me, and the only person that decide whether to complain about
a incorrectly used image is also me.

Quite frankly I'd be furious if someone took it upon themselves to
interfere in any relationship I have with users of my images.



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Re: Proposal: Commons Force

wiki-lists
In reply to this post by Bod Notbod
Bod Notbod wrote:
> On the subject of Flickr, I have a proposal.
>
> I'd like to see an option given to Flickr users to check "license for
> use on Wikipedia" which would be an easy way for people to
>
> a) make their pictures available to us and
>
> b) easier to find by Wikipedians.
>

You can already limit your search for CC-BY-SA images on flickr. Why
would you want to rename the license something else?




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Re: Proposal: Commons Force

wiki-lists
In reply to this post by Geoffrey Plourde
Geoffrey Plourde wrote:

> I agree, vigilantism is not necessary and counter productive. The
> Commons Force proposal represents a clear and present danger, both
> for whoever hosts it and participates in it. It is not for a third
> party to intervene in a contract between two people and only two
> people. If the Commons Force restricted itself to documenting
> potential copyvios and reporting them to the copyright owners, I
> could see some merit to the proposal. Otherwise it will do more harm
> than good.
>
>

Exactly, report potential violations both ARR works miss licensed as CC,
and CC works that are sans the license to the copyright owners and let
them decide what to do. Personally if a small non-profit reuses one of
my images and does attribute or supply the license I'm unlikely to get
in a tizz about it. Nor would I want some one, no matter how well
meaning, giving them grief over it.



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Re: Proposal: Commons Force

Sage Ross
In reply to this post by Geoffrey Plourde
On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 3:34 PM, Geoffrey Plourde<[hidden email]> wrote:
> The Commons Force proposal represents a clear and present danger, both for whoever hosts it and participates in it. It is not for a third party to intervene in a contract between two people and only two people.

This kind of attitude seems to me to be a byproduct of the fact that,
despite being intended to help fix the flaws in the copyright system,
Creative Commons and other free licenses are "hacks" that are built on
top of copyright.  The construction of CC licenses as contracts
between copyright owner and user is part of the hack, but not
necessarily ideal for promoting a robust creative commons (in the
lower case, general sense).

If a copyleft license is being violated, that is potentially of
concern beyond the two legal parties, since properly using the license
would mean that derivative works are also part of the commons and
available for others to use and adapt.  And more broadly, a society
that values the commons and with effective norms for following CC
licenses properly is better for everyone who contributes to and
partakes in the commons.  Widespread awareness of the costs and
benefits of joining the commons versus cutting oneself off from it is
a prerequisite for copyleft to work properly (i.e., to incentivize
further contributions to the commons).

Some recent related reading I found interesting:
http://www.copycense.com/2009/08/is_creative_commons_good_for_copyright.html

-Sage

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Re: Proposal: Commons Force

Bod Notbod
In reply to this post by wiki-lists
On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 8:40 PM, <[hidden email]> wrote:

>> On the subject of Flickr, I have a proposal.
>>
>> I'd like to see an option given to Flickr users to check "license for
>> use on Wikipedia" which would be an easy way for people to
>>
>> a) make their pictures available to us and
>>
>> b) easier to find by Wikipedians.
>
> You can already limit your search for CC-BY-SA images on flickr. Why
> would you want to rename the license something else?

That's easily answered.

I'm not "renaming the license". I'm proposing that there be a tick box
for that very same license with a more friendly tag that tells the
user "can be used on Wikipedia". The license doesn't change, it's just
the way it's communicated.

I love and support the Creative Commons licenses, but they can present
you with a lot of reading. A decision that says "can be used on
Wikipedia" would be much more immediate.

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Re: Proposal: Commons Force

wiki-lists
Bod Notbod wrote:

> On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 8:40 PM, <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>> On the subject of Flickr, I have a proposal.
>>>
>>> I'd like to see an option given to Flickr users to check "license for
>>> use on Wikipedia" which would be an easy way for people to
>>>
>>> a) make their pictures available to us and
>>>
>>> b) easier to find by Wikipedians.
>> You can already limit your search for CC-BY-SA images on flickr. Why
>> would you want to rename the license something else?
>
> That's easily answered.
>
> I'm not "renaming the license". I'm proposing that there be a tick box
> for that very same license with a more friendly tag that tells the
> user "can be used on Wikipedia". The license doesn't change, it's just
> the way it's communicated.
>
> I love and support the Creative Commons licenses, but they can present
> you with a lot of reading. A decision that says "can be used on
> Wikipedia" would be much more immediate.
>

It is also very misleading. Whilst many people would love to have their
work on wikipedia they might not want it used by Microsoft, News
International, Ford, Walmart, the Meat Marketing Board, or etc. So if
you feel that people need to be educated into using a license compatible
with wikipedia, you really do need to spell it out for them that they
are also making available to all those others too.


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Re: Proposal: Commons Force

wiki-lists
In reply to this post by Sage Ross
Sage Ross wrote:
>
> If a copyleft license is being violated, that is potentially of
> concern beyond the two legal parties, since properly using the license
> would mean that derivative works are also part of the commons and
> available for others to use and adapt.


The problem is that YOU have no knowledge whether a copyleft license is
being violated or not. It is a gross arrogance on your part presume that
because it is CC-BY-SA in one context that all such uses must be CC-BY-SA.

If someone write a piece of music and releases it under a CC-BY-SA
license, they can also allow uses under other conditions. Now assume
that you hear that music in some TV advert is the advert CC-BY-SA? Not
if the creator of the music relicensed it to the advertizer minus the
copyleft requirement. Being an outsider to the agreement between the two
parties you simple do not know.


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