Proposal: LiteratePrograms.org as Wikimedia Project

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
7 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Proposal: LiteratePrograms.org as Wikimedia Project

Erik Moeller-4
I would like to propose (as a community member) that

http://en.literateprograms.org/

be merged into the Wikimedia Foundation family of projects. I have
spoken with the founder of LiteratePrograms, Derrick Coetzee, and he
would agree to such a merger.

LP documents computer program source code with in-line explanations
beyond simple source comments. Using a special extension, all code
belonging to an example program can be downloaded as a package with
ease. It is, in my opinion, ideally positioned to become a wonderful
learning resource for budding programmers in any programming language.

The structure of LP is fundamentally different from any existing
Wikimedia project. Yet, it is an educational project with great value.
LP currently uses the MIT/X11 license, which is similar to CC-BY, but
more suitable for source code; I believe this makes sense as these
snippets are typically so small that they should not be encumbered
further with copyleft.

WMF would be able to give the project sustainable hosting and exposure
to a vast community. What do you think? If there is no consensus, I'd
be willing to organize a community poll as we did for other projects,
but I really see very little that speaks against LP becoming part of
the WMF project family.
--
Peace & Love,
Erik

DISCLAIMER: This message does not represent an official position of
the Wikimedia Foundation or its Board of Trustees.

"An old, rigid civilization is reluctantly dying. Something new, open,
free and exciting is waking up." -- Ming the Mechanic

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Proposal: LiteratePrograms.org as Wikimedia Project

Cormac Lawler
On 4/27/07, Erik Moeller <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I would like to propose (as a community member) that
>
> http://en.literateprograms.org/


Hi Erik, (sorry, I didn't see this mail before)

could this not be merged with Wikiversity? I think it would give the
programming community something to really work with there. Apart from
some technical add-ons, what parts of this project would be outside
the scope of Wikiversity?

Cormac

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Proposal: LiteratePrograms.org as Wikimedia Project

daniwo59
In reply to this post by Erik Moeller-4
 
I don't think anyone can comment intelligently until it is clarified what  
"merged into the Wikimedia Foundation family of projects" really means. Does  
this mean that they are now wikis. That anyone can edit them? That the current  
community of WMF will determine how they are managed?
 
What are their financials like? Do they have sufficient funds to be  
self-sufficient? If not, do we have sufficient funds to support them? Why is  this a
merger and not a simple partnership between the two organizations?
 
There are many more, similar questions that can be asked. You can't ask  
people to make informed decisions until all these questions are answered.
 
Danny
 
 
In a message dated 4/27/2007 9:13:29 AM Eastern Daylight Time,  
[hidden email] writes:

I would  like to propose (as a community member)  that

http://en.literateprograms.org/

be merged into the  Wikimedia Foundation family of projects. I have
spoken with the founder of  LiteratePrograms, Derrick Coetzee, and he
would agree to such a  merger.

LP documents computer program source code with in-line  explanations
beyond simple source comments. Using a special extension, all  code
belonging to an example program can be downloaded as a package  with
ease. It is, in my opinion, ideally positioned to become a  wonderful
learning resource for budding programmers in any programming  language.

The structure of LP is fundamentally different from any  existing
Wikimedia project. Yet, it is an educational project with great  value.
LP currently uses the MIT/X11 license, which is similar to CC-BY,  but
more suitable for source code; I believe this makes sense as  these
snippets are typically so small that they should not be  encumbered
further with copyleft.

WMF would be able to give the  project sustainable hosting and exposure
to a vast community. What do you  think? If there is no consensus, I'd
be willing to organize a community  poll as we did for other projects,
but I really see very little that speaks  against LP becoming part of
the WMF project family.
--
Peace &  Love,
Erik







************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Proposal: LiteratePrograms.org as Wikimedia Project

Florence Devouard-3
[hidden email] wrote:

>  
> I don't think anyone can comment intelligently until it is clarified what  
> "merged into the Wikimedia Foundation family of projects" really means. Does  
> this mean that they are now wikis. That anyone can edit them? That the current  
> community of WMF will determine how they are managed?
>  
> What are their financials like? Do they have sufficient funds to be  
> self-sufficient? If not, do we have sufficient funds to support them? Why is  this a
> merger and not a simple partnership between the two organizations?
>  
> There are many more, similar questions that can be asked. You can't ask  
> people to make informed decisions until all these questions are answered.
>  
> Danny

Agreed
Actually, I read Erik proposal as a suggestion to create a new project
(at the level of Wikipedia, Wikinews etc...), and I first thought was

"how does it fit in our mission" ?

Ant



_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Proposal: LiteratePrograms.org as Wikimedia Project

Brianna Laugher
In reply to this post by Erik Moeller-4
Literate Programs is a very cool and useful project, and could
certainly sit well under the WMF umbrella with regards to things like
NPOV and educational/informational value. But the idea of WMF
subsuming another project, as opposed to starting one from the ground
up, is not one I had considered before. It's not obvious to me that
just because we could subsume a project with suitable qualities, we
should. Are we aiming to host every such suitable project? Probably
there are a good many out there that would fit with us, right?

> WMF would be able to give the project sustainable hosting and exposure
> to a vast community. What do you think? If there is no consensus, I'd
> be willing to organize a community poll as we did for other projects,
> but I really see very little that speaks against LP becoming part of
> the WMF project family.

Exposure to a vast community == thinning of our existing communities,
and probably mostly from already-small communities in WB, WV, WS. If
LP is struggling in terms of user community, will joining WMF actually
help?

Maybe I'm looking at this wrong but I'm kinda thinking, "What's in it
for us?" I love Literate Programs. But it doesn't have to be part of
WMF for me to love it.

I guess this also makes me think, does the WMF have goals for the
projects? Aside from the Foundation level stuff like copyrights and
NPOV. Wikipedia is obviously wildly successful, so let's leave it
aside. Does have a position about how development of the other
projects should go? If they languish in obscurity, or a rival
commercial enterprise with a similar-enough aim becomes wildly
popular, does that matter? Does it reflect badly on WMF if projects
have to close due to lack of interest, or struggle in the beginning?

I guess it does matter, because it's hard to meet the goal of
disseminating free knowledge/content if no one's ever heard of you.

Signs of success, aside from site popularity, for Wikibooks and
Wikiversity are relatively clear to me - publication-level quality and
use in educational institutions. Wiktionary - hmm. Wiktionary is a bit
like Wikipedia, in that when it is complete enough, it will be useful
enough, and it will become the standard reference on the web.
Wikiquote - ????
Wikisource - ???? (similar to Wikibooks and Wikiversity?)
Wikispecies - ???? (similar to Wikipedia/Wiktionary?)
Wikinews - I don't know. the model for Wikinews seems sufficiently
different that I can't imagine what its wild success might look like.
I guess Wikinewsies might have some ideas.
Commons - IMO, similar to Wikipedia/Wiktionary - standard reference on the web.
MediaWiki - pretty easy, when it answers every question every type of
MW user might have about it :)
Meta - I guess Meta doesn't need goals.

I know WMF doesn't want to micro-manage communities, but I'd be
interested to know if it considers this type of stuff its business.

cheers
Brianna
user:pfctdayelise

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Proposal: LiteratePrograms.org as Wikimedia Project

Stephen Bain
In reply to this post by Erik Moeller-4
On 4/27/07, Erik Moeller <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> The structure of LP is fundamentally different from any existing
> Wikimedia project. Yet, it is an educational project with great value.
> LP currently uses the MIT/X11 license, which is similar to CC-BY, but
> more suitable for source code; I believe this makes sense as these
> snippets are typically so small that they should not be encumbered
> further with copyleft.

The structure is different, but I could see it fitting in nicely with
Wikisource for example. But surely their licencing regime would be a
big problem for integration with Wikimedia? It would mean that we
wouldn't be able to mix content from that project into others.

Perhaps it would be better if we just steal that extention of theirs
and use it for our own purposes :)

--
Stephen Bain
[hidden email]

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Proposal: LiteratePrograms.org as Wikimedia Project

David Gerard-2
In reply to this post by Brianna Laugher
On 30/04/07, Brianna Laugher <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Wikisource - ???? (similar to Wikibooks and Wikiversity?)


What's success for Project Gutenberg?


> Wikinews - I don't know. the model for Wikinews seems sufficiently
> different that I can't imagine what its wild success might look like.
> I guess Wikinewsies might have some ideas.


Achieving more decent articles per day than Uncyclopedia UnNews.


> Commons - IMO, similar to Wikipedia/Wiktionary - standard reference on the web.


Reference? I was thinking the Getty Images of free content.


> I know WMF doesn't want to micro-manage communities, but I'd be
> interested to know if it considers this type of stuff its business.


- d.

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l