Proposal: View Original File

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Proposal: View Original File

Fabrice Florin-2
Hi folks,

We would appreciate your thoughts about a proposed "View Original File” feature for Media Viewer. (1)

1. Goals
In our surveys and discussions, many users have asked for either access to original files — or a zoom feature
These frequent requests cover a range of use cases:
view the original file in its full resolution
* edit, crop and/or re-use images
* zoom in to see details

2. Feature
To address these requests, this feature would enable you to access the original file from Media Viewer, so you can examine it in your browser, and easily edit/re-use it. To view that original file, you would simply click on a new "View original file" button next to the image, as shown in this mockup (2).  This would open the original full-size image in the same browser window, as happens now when you click images in file description pages on Commons. Your browser’s back button would return you to the Media Viewer.

This proposal would support the use cases above by providing the same core functionality editors are used to on file description pages. It would enable you to operate on files (convert/edit them), and also give you the ability to zoom on common file types in modern browsers.

3. Alternatives
The multimedia team has investigated several other solutions to address these user requests. We developed a Simple Zoom Link (3), which you can test now on Commons: but we’re concerned that this implementation provides a poor user experience that’s more complex than it needs to be. We also considered a Basic Zoom feature (4) and a Full Zoom feature (5). But these implementations require more development time than we have right now. We’re eager to wrap up this version of Media Viewer this month, so we can move on to other important issues, such as upgrading UploadWizard or fixing bugs in our technical debt.

4. What do you think?
We’d be grateful for your feedback about this proposal and some of the short-term options we’re considering, by answering these two questions:

Q1. How important to you is it that we implement “View original file” or a similar feature at this time?
a) very important
b) somewhat important
c) not important

Q2. Which of the following options do you think we should develop at this time? 
a) View Original File: (~1 day of work) (1) 
b) Simple Zoom Link to original file in a tab: (already on Commons, ~1 day to improve) (3)
c) Basic Zoom to original file in Media Viewer: (~1 week of work) (4)
d) Do Nothing
 
You can respond to these questions by email, or here on our main discussion page:

Thanks in advance for your guidance about this important issue. With your help, we hope to implement a practical solution that can address your most pressing needs in coming weeks.

Regards as ever,


Fabrice 

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Product Manager
Wikimedia Foundation





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Re: Proposal: View Original File

Fabrice Florin-2
Sorry, forgot to include the direct link to the wiki discussion:



On May 21, 2014, at 4:37 PM, Fabrice Florin <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi folks,

We would appreciate your thoughts about a proposed "View Original File” feature for Media Viewer. (1)

1. Goals
In our surveys and discussions, many users have asked for either access to original files — or a zoom feature
These frequent requests cover a range of use cases:
view the original file in its full resolution
* edit, crop and/or re-use images
* zoom in to see details

2. Feature
To address these requests, this feature would enable you to access the original file from Media Viewer, so you can examine it in your browser, and easily edit/re-use it. To view that original file, you would simply click on a new "View original file" button next to the image, as shown in this mockup (2).  This would open the original full-size image in the same browser window, as happens now when you click images in file description pages on Commons. Your browser’s back button would return you to the Media Viewer.

This proposal would support the use cases above by providing the same core functionality editors are used to on file description pages. It would enable you to operate on files (convert/edit them), and also give you the ability to zoom on common file types in modern browsers.

3. Alternatives
The multimedia team has investigated several other solutions to address these user requests. We developed a Simple Zoom Link (3), which you can test now on Commons: but we’re concerned that this implementation provides a poor user experience that’s more complex than it needs to be. We also considered a Basic Zoom feature (4) and a Full Zoom feature (5). But these implementations require more development time than we have right now. We’re eager to wrap up this version of Media Viewer this month, so we can move on to other important issues, such as upgrading UploadWizard or fixing bugs in our technical debt.

4. What do you think?
We’d be grateful for your feedback about this proposal and some of the short-term options we’re considering, by answering these two questions:

Q1. How important to you is it that we implement “View original file” or a similar feature at this time?
a) very important
b) somewhat important
c) not important

Q2. Which of the following options do you think we should develop at this time? 
a) View Original File: (~1 day of work) (1) 
b) Simple Zoom Link to original file in a tab: (already on Commons, ~1 day to improve) (3)
c) Basic Zoom to original file in Media Viewer: (~1 week of work) (4)
d) Do Nothing
 
You can respond to these questions by email, or here on our main discussion page:

Thanks in advance for your guidance about this important issue. With your help, we hope to implement a practical solution that can address your most pressing needs in coming weeks.

Regards as ever,


Fabrice 

_____________________________







_______________________________

Fabrice Florin
Product Manager
Wikimedia Foundation





_______________________________

Fabrice Florin
Product Manager
Wikimedia Foundation





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Re: Proposal: View Original File

Gnangarra
My first thought is dont do it, its a can of worms that should remain closed..... this appears to me to be a troll tool rather than a tool of direct benefit the final image is invariably the one with minor blemishes, privacy, stitching, political and other issues addressed. 

​Zooming should be addressed separately.....

Ok just realised your not referring to the first uploaded version of the image​
​ when your saying "original image" but rather the largest versions of the current file, posting because others may have the same thought dont you just love the ambiguity of the  english language....​






On 22 May 2014 07:40, Fabrice Florin <[hidden email]> wrote:
Sorry, forgot to include the direct link to the wiki discussion:



On May 21, 2014, at 4:37 PM, Fabrice Florin <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi folks,

We would appreciate your thoughts about a proposed "View Original File” feature for Media Viewer. (1)

1. Goals
In our surveys and discussions, many users have asked for either access to original files — or a zoom feature
These frequent requests cover a range of use cases:
view the original file in its full resolution
* edit, crop and/or re-use images
* zoom in to see details

2. Feature
To address these requests, this feature would enable you to access the original file from Media Viewer, so you can examine it in your browser, and easily edit/re-use it. To view that original file, you would simply click on a new "View original file" button next to the image, as shown in this mockup (2).  This would open the original full-size image in the same browser window, as happens now when you click images in file description pages on Commons. Your browser’s back button would return you to the Media Viewer.

This proposal would support the use cases above by providing the same core functionality editors are used to on file description pages. It would enable you to operate on files (convert/edit them), and also give you the ability to zoom on common file types in modern browsers.

3. Alternatives
The multimedia team has investigated several other solutions to address these user requests. We developed a Simple Zoom Link (3), which you can test now on Commons: but we’re concerned that this implementation provides a poor user experience that’s more complex than it needs to be. We also considered a Basic Zoom feature (4) and a Full Zoom feature (5). But these implementations require more development time than we have right now. We’re eager to wrap up this version of Media Viewer this month, so we can move on to other important issues, such as upgrading UploadWizard or fixing bugs in our technical debt.

4. What do you think?
We’d be grateful for your feedback about this proposal and some of the short-term options we’re considering, by answering these two questions:

Q1. How important to you is it that we implement “View original file” or a similar feature at this time?
a) very important
b) somewhat important
c) not important

Q2. Which of the following options do you think we should develop at this time? 
a) View Original File: (~1 day of work) (1) 
b) Simple Zoom Link to original file in a tab: (already on Commons, ~1 day to improve) (3)
c) Basic Zoom to original file in Media Viewer: (~1 week of work) (4)
d) Do Nothing
 
You can respond to these questions by email, or here on our main discussion page:

Thanks in advance for your guidance about this important issue. With your help, we hope to implement a practical solution that can address your most pressing needs in coming weeks.

Regards as ever,


Fabrice 

_____________________________







_______________________________

Fabrice Florin
Product Manager
Wikimedia Foundation





_______________________________

Fabrice Florin
Product Manager
Wikimedia Foundation





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GN.
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WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com


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Re: Proposal: View Original File

Daniel Schwen-2
So what happened to the idea of providing an overlay to "download" the original file?
I also heard that you guys pondered the idea of linking the ZoomViewer [1] from the MV, but ultimately decided against it. From what I heard the UIX implications of navigating to a "different site" put you off. Any details on that decision?



On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 6:01 PM, Gnangarra <[hidden email]> wrote:
My first thought is dont do it, its a can of worms that should remain closed..... this appears to me to be a troll tool rather than a tool of direct benefit the final image is invariably the one with minor blemishes, privacy, stitching, political and other issues addressed. 

​Zooming should be addressed separately.....

Ok just realised your not referring to the first uploaded version of the image​
​ when your saying "original image" but rather the largest versions of the current file, posting because others may have the same thought dont you just love the ambiguity of the  english language....​






On 22 May 2014 07:40, Fabrice Florin <[hidden email]> wrote:
Sorry, forgot to include the direct link to the wiki discussion:



On May 21, 2014, at 4:37 PM, Fabrice Florin <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi folks,

We would appreciate your thoughts about a proposed "View Original File” feature for Media Viewer. (1)

1. Goals
In our surveys and discussions, many users have asked for either access to original files — or a zoom feature
These frequent requests cover a range of use cases:
view the original file in its full resolution
* edit, crop and/or re-use images
* zoom in to see details

2. Feature
To address these requests, this feature would enable you to access the original file from Media Viewer, so you can examine it in your browser, and easily edit/re-use it. To view that original file, you would simply click on a new "View original file" button next to the image, as shown in this mockup (2).  This would open the original full-size image in the same browser window, as happens now when you click images in file description pages on Commons. Your browser’s back button would return you to the Media Viewer.

This proposal would support the use cases above by providing the same core functionality editors are used to on file description pages. It would enable you to operate on files (convert/edit them), and also give you the ability to zoom on common file types in modern browsers.

3. Alternatives
The multimedia team has investigated several other solutions to address these user requests. We developed a Simple Zoom Link (3), which you can test now on Commons: but we’re concerned that this implementation provides a poor user experience that’s more complex than it needs to be. We also considered a Basic Zoom feature (4) and a Full Zoom feature (5). But these implementations require more development time than we have right now. We’re eager to wrap up this version of Media Viewer this month, so we can move on to other important issues, such as upgrading UploadWizard or fixing bugs in our technical debt.

4. What do you think?
We’d be grateful for your feedback about this proposal and some of the short-term options we’re considering, by answering these two questions:

Q1. How important to you is it that we implement “View original file” or a similar feature at this time?
a) very important
b) somewhat important
c) not important

Q2. Which of the following options do you think we should develop at this time? 
a) View Original File: (~1 day of work) (1) 
b) Simple Zoom Link to original file in a tab: (already on Commons, ~1 day to improve) (3)
c) Basic Zoom to original file in Media Viewer: (~1 week of work) (4)
d) Do Nothing
 
You can respond to these questions by email, or here on our main discussion page:

Thanks in advance for your guidance about this important issue. With your help, we hope to implement a practical solution that can address your most pressing needs in coming weeks.

Regards as ever,


Fabrice 

_____________________________







_______________________________

Fabrice Florin
Product Manager
Wikimedia Foundation





_______________________________

Fabrice Florin
Product Manager
Wikimedia Foundation





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--
GN.
Vice President Wikimedia Australia
WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com


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Re: Proposal: View Original File

Alex Brollo
Just to mention a very special case: page images into wikisource proofread extension, coming from djvu files as standard resolution jpg (so adding two levels of compression with related issues) .

Well, when djvu file comes from Internet Archive, it's possible ane relatively easy to get the URL of  individual, original, full-resolution jpg or jp2 from IA item, then replacing the url of standard image with the url of IA image into the proofread page by javascript.I used a draft tool to do this as a test into a difficult proofreading, and it turns out effective, fast and useful.

Alex brollo






2014-05-22 4:25 GMT+02:00 Daniel Schwen <[hidden email]>:
So what happened to the idea of providing an overlay to "download" the original file?
I also heard that you guys pondered the idea of linking the ZoomViewer [1] from the MV, but ultimately decided against it. From what I heard the UIX implications of navigating to a "different site" put you off. Any details on that decision?



On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 6:01 PM, Gnangarra <[hidden email]> wrote:
My first thought is dont do it, its a can of worms that should remain closed..... this appears to me to be a troll tool rather than a tool of direct benefit the final image is invariably the one with minor blemishes, privacy, stitching, political and other issues addressed. 

​Zooming should be addressed separately.....

Ok just realised your not referring to the first uploaded version of the image​
​ when your saying "original image" but rather the largest versions of the current file, posting because others may have the same thought dont you just love the ambiguity of the  english language....​






On 22 May 2014 07:40, Fabrice Florin <[hidden email]> wrote:
Sorry, forgot to include the direct link to the wiki discussion:



On May 21, 2014, at 4:37 PM, Fabrice Florin <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi folks,

We would appreciate your thoughts about a proposed "View Original File” feature for Media Viewer. (1)

1. Goals
In our surveys and discussions, many users have asked for either access to original files — or a zoom feature
These frequent requests cover a range of use cases:
view the original file in its full resolution
* edit, crop and/or re-use images
* zoom in to see details

2. Feature
To address these requests, this feature would enable you to access the original file from Media Viewer, so you can examine it in your browser, and easily edit/re-use it. To view that original file, you would simply click on a new "View original file" button next to the image, as shown in this mockup (2).  This would open the original full-size image in the same browser window, as happens now when you click images in file description pages on Commons. Your browser’s back button would return you to the Media Viewer.

This proposal would support the use cases above by providing the same core functionality editors are used to on file description pages. It would enable you to operate on files (convert/edit them), and also give you the ability to zoom on common file types in modern browsers.

3. Alternatives
The multimedia team has investigated several other solutions to address these user requests. We developed a Simple Zoom Link (3), which you can test now on Commons: but we’re concerned that this implementation provides a poor user experience that’s more complex than it needs to be. We also considered a Basic Zoom feature (4) and a Full Zoom feature (5). But these implementations require more development time than we have right now. We’re eager to wrap up this version of Media Viewer this month, so we can move on to other important issues, such as upgrading UploadWizard or fixing bugs in our technical debt.

4. What do you think?
We’d be grateful for your feedback about this proposal and some of the short-term options we’re considering, by answering these two questions:

Q1. How important to you is it that we implement “View original file” or a similar feature at this time?
a) very important
b) somewhat important
c) not important

Q2. Which of the following options do you think we should develop at this time? 
a) View Original File: (~1 day of work) (1) 
b) Simple Zoom Link to original file in a tab: (already on Commons, ~1 day to improve) (3)
c) Basic Zoom to original file in Media Viewer: (~1 week of work) (4)
d) Do Nothing
 
You can respond to these questions by email, or here on our main discussion page:

Thanks in advance for your guidance about this important issue. With your help, we hope to implement a practical solution that can address your most pressing needs in coming weeks.

Regards as ever,


Fabrice 

_____________________________







_______________________________

Fabrice Florin
Product Manager
Wikimedia Foundation





_______________________________

Fabrice Florin
Product Manager
Wikimedia Foundation





_______________________________________________
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--
GN.
Vice President Wikimedia Australia
WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com


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Re: [Multimedia] Proposal: View Original File

Fabrice Florin-2
In reply to this post by Fabrice Florin-2
Thank you, Rupert!

We appreciate your feedback — and your support for the "View Original File” idea (1) is duly noted.

What do others think? Is this a good idea? bad idea?

Please chime in by email, or better yet, add your comments on this discussion page: 


Your feedback is important to us. It will help us make the right decision to address this issue quickly. 

We’d like to have at least a placeholder solution, even if we can’t do all that we dreamed of right away. :)

All the best,


Fabrice




On May 23, 2014, at 10:57 AM, rupert THURNER <[hidden email]> wrote:


Am 22.05.2014 01:38 schrieb "Fabrice Florin" <[hidden email]>:
>
> Hi folks,
>
> We would appreciate your thoughts about a proposed "View Original File” feature for Media Viewer. (1)
>
> 1. Goals
> In our surveys and discussions, many users have asked for either access to original files — or a zoom feature. 
> These frequent requests cover a range of use cases:
> * view the original file in its full resolution
> * edit, crop and/or re-use images
> * zoom in to see details
>
> 2. Feature
> To address these requests, this feature would enable you to access the original file from Media Viewer, so you can examine it in your browser, and easily edit/re-use it. To view that original file, you would simply click on a new "View original file" button next to the image, as shown in this mockup (2).  This would open the original full-size image in the same browser window, as happens now when you click images in file description pages on Commons. Your browser’s back button would return you to the Media Viewer.
>
> This proposal would support the use cases above by providing the same core functionality editors are used to on file description pages. It would enable you to operate on files (convert/edit them), and also give you the ability to zoom on common file types in modern browsers.
>
> 3. Alternatives
> The multimedia team has investigated several other solutions to address these user requests. We developed a Simple Zoom Link (3), which you can test now on Commons: but we’re concerned that this implementation provides a poor user experience that’s more complex than it needs to be. We also considered a Basic Zoom feature (4) and a Full Zoom feature (5). But these implementations require more development time than we have right now. We’re eager to wrap up this version of Media Viewer this month, so we can move on to other important issues, such as upgrading UploadWizard or fixing bugs in our technical debt.
>
> 4. What do you think?
> We’d be grateful for your feedback about this proposal and some of the short-term options we’re considering, by answering these two questions:
>
> Q1. How important to you is it that we implement “View original file” or a similar feature at this time?
> a) very important
> b) somewhat important
> c) not important

View the original file plus older versions is, from a glam upload perspective, mandatory.

> Q2. Which of the following options do you think we should develop at this time? 
> a) View Original File: (~1 day of work) (1) 

Yes please.

> _____________________________
>
>
> (1) View Original File (#630):  https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/630
>
> (2) Design Mockup: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Media_Viewer_-_View_Original_File_-_Mockup_1024px.jpg
>
> (3) Simple Zoom Link (#588): https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/588
>
> (4) Basic Zoom feature (#504): https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/504
>
> (5) Full Zoom feature (#167): https://wikimedia.mingle.thoughtworks.com/projects/multimedia/cards/167
>
> _______________________________
>
> Fabrice Florin
> Product Manager
> Wikimedia Foundation
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Fabrice_Florin_(WMF)
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Multimedia mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/multimedia
>

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Re: [Multimedia] Proposal: View Original File

metasj
In reply to this post by Daniel Schwen-2
On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 2:22 AM, Keegan Peterzell
<[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I would like to say, Daniel, as much as it's worth over email, that
> ZoomViewer is awesome. With both WMF and volunteer hat, thank you for this
> :)

Hear, hear!  It is a pleasure to use, reminds me of the Gigapan tools.
 I'd love to see it in wider use.

While optimizing it makes sense medium term, could ZoomViewer be given
its own machine for now so that it could be put into wider use?


Rupert Thurner writes:
> View the original file plus older versions is, from a glam upload perspective,
> mandatory.

I agree.   Not merely "one more link", something central and obvious.
(Right now, that is the primary way to interact with image pages on
Commons: The largest active area on the page is the image, which when
clicked takes you to the original file.)

Regards,
Sam

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Re: [Multimedia] Proposal: View Original File

Andrew Gray-3
On 24 May 2014 12:28, Samuel Klein <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Rupert Thurner writes:
>> View the original file plus older versions is, from a glam upload perspective,
>> mandatory.
>
> I agree.   Not merely "one more link", something central and obvious.
> (Right now, that is the primary way to interact with image pages on
> Commons: The largest active area on the page is the image, which when
> clicked takes you to the original file.)

I would agree that accessing the image description page/original image
really needs to be more obvious than the buried "Commons" link (which
is virtually invisible to anyone who doesn't know our site
iconography).

We've been telling people for years that if you keep clicking on the
image file you'll get to our master copy in the end, so clicking on
the expanded image seems a natural way to do it :-)

--
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Re: [Multimedia] Proposal: View Original File

Daniel Schwen-2
In reply to this post by metasj
> While optimizing it makes sense medium term, could ZoomViewer be given
> its own machine for now so that it could be put into wider use?

I'll keep an eye on how it performs. Just last week I finally moved it
to labs. [[User:Hedonil]] helped me optimize the webserver
configuration on labs and supplied a watcher/restarter script. For now
it seems to run fine. If necessary it could always be moved to a
separate instance.
Cheers,
Daniel

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Re: [Multimedia] Proposal: View Original File

Daniel Mietchen
In reply to this post by Andrew Gray-3
On Sat, May 24, 2014 at 1:38 PM, Andrew Gray <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I would agree that accessing the image description page/original image
> really needs to be more obvious than the buried "Commons" link (which
> is virtually invisible to anyone who doesn't know our site
> iconography).
>
> We've been telling people for years that if you keep clicking on the
> image file you'll get to our master copy in the end, so clicking on
> the expanded image seems a natural way to do it :-)
Fully agree with that.

Matters are worse for non-image media - under many circumstances,
there is no way to click through from an embedded audio or video file
on Wikipedia to the description page on Commons.

As an example, try getting to the description page of the video at
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Artist%27s_impression&oldid=605424798
.
For me (under OSX), this works fine (via the Menu button) under Chrome
but that button is simply not there under Firefox or Safari.

Examples for audio would be the May 20 entry at
https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons:Open_Access_File_of_the_Day&oldid=124628188
or the file behind the "listen" link at the top of
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Natalya_Gorbanevskaya&oldid=593135738
.

I think bugs for some of the above scenarios have been filed long ago
but can't find them right know. Anyway, GLAMs and other providers of
openly licensed media are really picky about such things (and rightly
so, in most cases).

So while I would very much welcome simpler click-through for images, I
think it is even more important to get any click-through path to work
for non-image media in cases like those outlined above.

Cheers,

Daniel

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