Proposal for India's First MediaWiki Group Ahmedabad

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Proposal for India's First MediaWiki Group Ahmedabad

Harsh Kothari
Dear friends,

This is to inform you all about the creation of the first MediaWiki group in India. For the past several days, I’ve been speaking to Quim Gil, Sumana and Yuvi Panda. I was informed about the setting up of local groups in different countries for technical contributors. With encouragement from all of them and with help from Noopur I submitted a proposal for the formation of MediaWiki Group Ahmedabad. This proposal has been endorsed by 7 people so far.

For those who might be interested in setting up similar groups, I think a Wikitech mailing list for India is being set up and personally, I would be happy to help you write a proposal for your community. I think it’s a great idea because with the help of this technical group we intend to make good technical infrastructure and editing environment for Gujarati Wikipedia easier to contribute to.

I have already ported HotCat and Popups(on the way) on Gujarati Wikipedia. Please have a look at the areas we want to collaborate on:

Areas of collaboration:
  • Localize Gadgets for Gujarati Wikipedia and Wikisource
  • Create New Gadgets and extensions
  • Bug solving for Gujarati Wikipedia and WikiSource and also other MediaWiki related Bug solving for all Indian languages
  • Translate into Gujarati Language, i.e http://translatewiki.net/
  • Wikidata


You can read the proposal here: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Groups/Proposals/Ahmedabad

Your endorsements, improvements and feedback are welcome at the wiki
page. Thank you!

Harsh Kothari

---
Harsh Kothari
Research Fellow, 
Physical Research Laboratory(PRL).
Ahmedabad.



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Re: Proposal for India's First MediaWiki Group Ahmedabad

Srikanth Ramakrishnan-3
Hi Harsh,
I have a few questions.
Was there any specific reason to go for a Separate MW Group? Is it due to legal/trademark issues or funding?
I'm sure that those two could be sorted if it were taken up by the Chapter similar to an SIG model.



On Fri, Dec 14, 2012 at 3:08 PM, Harsh Kothari <[hidden email]> wrote:
Dear friends,

This is to inform you all about the creation of the first MediaWiki group in India. For the past several days, I’ve been speaking to Quim Gil, Sumana and Yuvi Panda. I was informed about the setting up of local groups in different countries for technical contributors. With encouragement from all of them and with help from Noopur I submitted a proposal for the formation of MediaWiki Group Ahmedabad. This proposal has been endorsed by 7 people so far.

For those who might be interested in setting up similar groups, I think a Wikitech mailing list for India is being set up and personally, I would be happy to help you write a proposal for your community. I think it’s a great idea because with the help of this technical group we intend to make good technical infrastructure and editing environment for Gujarati Wikipedia easier to contribute to.

I have already ported HotCat and Popups(on the way) on Gujarati Wikipedia. Please have a look at the areas we want to collaborate on:

Areas of collaboration:
  • Localize Gadgets for Gujarati Wikipedia and Wikisource
  • Create New Gadgets and extensions
  • Bug solving for Gujarati Wikipedia and WikiSource and also other MediaWiki related Bug solving for all Indian languages
  • Translate into Gujarati Language, i.e http://translatewiki.net/
  • Wikidata


You can read the proposal here: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Groups/Proposals/Ahmedabad

Your endorsements, improvements and feedback are welcome at the wiki
page. Thank you!

Harsh Kothari

---
Harsh Kothari
Research Fellow, 
Physical Research Laboratory(PRL).
Ahmedabad.



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--
Srikanth Ramakrishnan
Member of the Executive Committee
Wikimedia Chapter [India]


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Re: Proposal for India's First MediaWiki Group Ahmedabad

Noopur-2
Hey Srikanth,

Just weighing in since I also happen to be supporting this process. Perhaps a little background is necessary to know why MediaWiki groups have been started as an initiative. Also copying Quim since he might be able to shed more light on this issue. As I understand from the proposal page, this is a part of the new direction taken by the Foundation since the "narrowed focus..." It was suggested that more impetus be given to help build and support technical volunteer groups just like all cities and countries have their Wikipedia, Commons and other communities of interested volunteers.
I am also witness to an IRC conversation where possibilities of setting up local groups versus national were considered. As the highlighted in the discussion, I believe that it would be best for volunteers to work in local proximal groups (like MediaWiki group - Ahmedabad for instance) also with a language focus possibly (like several gadgets have been added to Gujarati Wikipedia as a run up to the group and so on). I believe the MediaWiki India mailing list which hopes to link up communities across the country is up and running now. As far as I understand forming specific interest groups doesn't require a formal identity or does not encroach upon other parallel entities' activities or privileges.

Just trying to fill the gaps since you might not have the background on MediaWiki groups conversations. Maybe Quim can correct me if I a mistaken.

Best,
Noopur


On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 5:24 PM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Harsh,
I have a few questions.
Was there any specific reason to go for a Separate MW Group? Is it due to legal/trademark issues or funding?
I'm sure that those two could be sorted if it were taken up by the Chapter similar to an SIG model.



On Fri, Dec 14, 2012 at 3:08 PM, Harsh Kothari <[hidden email]> wrote:
Dear friends,

This is to inform you all about the creation of the first MediaWiki group in India. For the past several days, I’ve been speaking to Quim Gil, Sumana and Yuvi Panda. I was informed about the setting up of local groups in different countries for technical contributors. With encouragement from all of them and with help from Noopur I submitted a proposal for the formation of MediaWiki Group Ahmedabad. This proposal has been endorsed by 7 people so far.

For those who might be interested in setting up similar groups, I think a Wikitech mailing list for India is being set up and personally, I would be happy to help you write a proposal for your community. I think it’s a great idea because with the help of this technical group we intend to make good technical infrastructure and editing environment for Gujarati Wikipedia easier to contribute to.

I have already ported HotCat and Popups(on the way) on Gujarati Wikipedia. Please have a look at the areas we want to collaborate on:

Areas of collaboration:
  • Localize Gadgets for Gujarati Wikipedia and Wikisource
  • Create New Gadgets and extensions
  • Bug solving for Gujarati Wikipedia and WikiSource and also other MediaWiki related Bug solving for all Indian languages
  • Translate into Gujarati Language, i.e http://translatewiki.net/
  • Wikidata


You can read the proposal here: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Groups/Proposals/Ahmedabad

Your endorsements, improvements and feedback are welcome at the wiki
page. Thank you!

Harsh Kothari

---
Harsh Kothari
Research Fellow, 
Physical Research Laboratory(PRL).
Ahmedabad.



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--
Srikanth Ramakrishnan
Member of the Executive Committee
Wikimedia Chapter [India]


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--
Noopur Raval
Student
Arts and Aesthetics
Jawaharlal Nehru University, New Delhi
Ph: 9650567690

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Re: Proposal for India's First MediaWiki Group Ahmedabad

Srikanth Ramakrishnan-3
Noopur,
Thank you for your response,
However, you still haven't answered my question on what benefit a User Group has over Chapter SIG.
The Chapter was set up to help promote and streamline Wikimedia related activities in India.
We have been asked by affcom and your response would greatly help us understand why direct affiliation is really necessary.
It is more important to see what the long term benefits of this would be rather than to just create it because the option exists.
--



On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 5:46 PM, Noopur <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hey Srikanth,

Just weighing in since I also happen to be supporting this process. Perhaps a little background is necessary to know why MediaWiki groups have been started as an initiative. Also copying Quim since he might be able to shed more light on this issue. As I understand from the proposal page, this is a part of the new direction taken by the Foundation since the "narrowed focus..." It was suggested that more impetus be given to help build and support technical volunteer groups just like all cities and countries have their Wikipedia, Commons and other communities of interested volunteers.
I am also witness to an IRC conversation where possibilities of setting up local groups versus national were considered. As the highlighted in the discussion, I believe that it would be best for volunteers to work in local proximal groups (like MediaWiki group - Ahmedabad for instance) also with a language focus possibly (like several gadgets have been added to Gujarati Wikipedia as a run up to the group and so on). I believe the MediaWiki India mailing list which hopes to link up communities across the country is up and running now. As far as I understand forming specific interest groups doesn't require a formal identity or does not encroach upon other parallel entities' activities or privileges.

Just trying to fill the gaps since you might not have the background on MediaWiki groups conversations. Maybe Quim can correct me if I a mistaken.

Best,
Noopur


On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 5:24 PM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Harsh,
I have a few questions.
Was there any specific reason to go for a Separate MW Group? Is it due to legal/trademark issues or funding?
I'm sure that those two could be sorted if it were taken up by the Chapter similar to an SIG model.



On Fri, Dec 14, 2012 at 3:08 PM, Harsh Kothari <[hidden email]> wrote:
Dear friends,

This is to inform you all about the creation of the first MediaWiki group in India. For the past several days, I’ve been speaking to Quim Gil, Sumana and Yuvi Panda. I was informed about the setting up of local groups in different countries for technical contributors. With encouragement from all of them and with help from Noopur I submitted a proposal for the formation of MediaWiki Group Ahmedabad. This proposal has been endorsed by 7 people so far.

For those who might be interested in setting up similar groups, I think a Wikitech mailing list for India is being set up and personally, I would be happy to help you write a proposal for your community. I think it’s a great idea because with the help of this technical group we intend to make good technical infrastructure and editing environment for Gujarati Wikipedia easier to contribute to.

I have already ported HotCat and Popups(on the way) on Gujarati Wikipedia. Please have a look at the areas we want to collaborate on:

Areas of collaboration:
  • Localize Gadgets for Gujarati Wikipedia and Wikisource
  • Create New Gadgets and extensions
  • Bug solving for Gujarati Wikipedia and WikiSource and also other MediaWiki related Bug solving for all Indian languages
  • Translate into Gujarati Language, i.e http://translatewiki.net/
  • Wikidata


You can read the proposal here: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Groups/Proposals/Ahmedabad

Your endorsements, improvements and feedback are welcome at the wiki
page. Thank you!

Harsh Kothari

---
Harsh Kothari
Research Fellow, 
Physical Research Laboratory(PRL).
Ahmedabad.



_______________________________________________
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--
Srikanth Ramakrishnan
Member of the Executive Committee
Wikimedia Chapter [India]


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--
Noopur Raval
Student
Arts and Aesthetics
Jawaharlal Nehru University, New Delhi
Ph: 9650567690

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--
Srikanth Ramakrishnan
Member of the Executive Committee
Wikimedia Chapter [India]


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Re: Proposal for India's First MediaWiki Group Ahmedabad

Noopur-2
The same question could be asked of any collective with a Wikipedia related goal. However, it could also be asked if in the Wikiverse (which supremely thrives on the value of collaborative work), it is inappropriate or redundant to form new collaboratives (like MediaWiki group or other specific focus groups) that are outside the purview of chapters or the Foundation for that matter. My hunch is that the formation of such any formal/informal group of this nature is welcome as long as it does not enter into trademark conflicts with existing entities. However, it beats me why there would be a need to consolidate a new collective within a chapter if there is no apparent need indicated by the group itself.

I am just wondering whether the ideal approach would be to propose the nature of support that the chapter can extend in stead of wondering why the group has not been merged or started by/within chapter members. This would probably also mislead enthusiastic Indian Wikipedians who are not chapter members to understand that they must streamline all their activities with existing formal entities.

Best,
Noopur


On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 6:05 PM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan <[hidden email]> wrote:
Noopur,
Thank you for your response,
However, you still haven't answered my question on what benefit a User Group has over Chapter SIG.
The Chapter was set up to help promote and streamline Wikimedia related activities in India.
We have been asked by affcom and your response would greatly help us understand why direct affiliation is really necessary.
It is more important to see what the long term benefits of this would be rather than to just create it because the option exists.
--



On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 5:46 PM, Noopur <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hey Srikanth,

Just weighing in since I also happen to be supporting this process. Perhaps a little background is necessary to know why MediaWiki groups have been started as an initiative. Also copying Quim since he might be able to shed more light on this issue. As I understand from the proposal page, this is a part of the new direction taken by the Foundation since the "narrowed focus..." It was suggested that more impetus be given to help build and support technical volunteer groups just like all cities and countries have their Wikipedia, Commons and other communities of interested volunteers.
I am also witness to an IRC conversation where possibilities of setting up local groups versus national were considered. As the highlighted in the discussion, I believe that it would be best for volunteers to work in local proximal groups (like MediaWiki group - Ahmedabad for instance) also with a language focus possibly (like several gadgets have been added to Gujarati Wikipedia as a run up to the group and so on). I believe the MediaWiki India mailing list which hopes to link up communities across the country is up and running now. As far as I understand forming specific interest groups doesn't require a formal identity or does not encroach upon other parallel entities' activities or privileges.

Just trying to fill the gaps since you might not have the background on MediaWiki groups conversations. Maybe Quim can correct me if I a mistaken.

Best,
Noopur


On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 5:24 PM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Harsh,
I have a few questions.
Was there any specific reason to go for a Separate MW Group? Is it due to legal/trademark issues or funding?
I'm sure that those two could be sorted if it were taken up by the Chapter similar to an SIG model.



On Fri, Dec 14, 2012 at 3:08 PM, Harsh Kothari <[hidden email]> wrote:
Dear friends,

This is to inform you all about the creation of the first MediaWiki group in India. For the past several days, I’ve been speaking to Quim Gil, Sumana and Yuvi Panda. I was informed about the setting up of local groups in different countries for technical contributors. With encouragement from all of them and with help from Noopur I submitted a proposal for the formation of MediaWiki Group Ahmedabad. This proposal has been endorsed by 7 people so far.

For those who might be interested in setting up similar groups, I think a Wikitech mailing list for India is being set up and personally, I would be happy to help you write a proposal for your community. I think it’s a great idea because with the help of this technical group we intend to make good technical infrastructure and editing environment for Gujarati Wikipedia easier to contribute to.

I have already ported HotCat and Popups(on the way) on Gujarati Wikipedia. Please have a look at the areas we want to collaborate on:

Areas of collaboration:
  • Localize Gadgets for Gujarati Wikipedia and Wikisource
  • Create New Gadgets and extensions
  • Bug solving for Gujarati Wikipedia and WikiSource and also other MediaWiki related Bug solving for all Indian languages
  • Translate into Gujarati Language, i.e http://translatewiki.net/
  • Wikidata


You can read the proposal here: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Groups/Proposals/Ahmedabad

Your endorsements, improvements and feedback are welcome at the wiki
page. Thank you!

Harsh Kothari

---
Harsh Kothari
Research Fellow, 
Physical Research Laboratory(PRL).
Ahmedabad.



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--
Srikanth Ramakrishnan
Member of the Executive Committee
Wikimedia Chapter [India]


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--
Noopur Raval
Student
Arts and Aesthetics
Jawaharlal Nehru University, New Delhi
Ph: 9650567690

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Member of the Executive Committee
Wikimedia Chapter [India]


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--
Noopur Raval
Student
Arts and Aesthetics
Jawaharlal Nehru University, New Delhi
Ph: 9650567690

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Re: Proposal for India's First MediaWiki Group Ahmedabad

Srikanth Ramakrishnan-3
Hi,
I never mentioned anything about being part of the chapter.
The chapter was set up to promote the movement in India and it has done so even in cases where a person/participant was NOT a part of the chapter..
I merely asked what benefit the Group recieves by taking the User Group route over the Chapter SIG route.


Harsh,
What are your thoughts on the Chapter-SIG model.




On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 6:25 PM, Noopur <[hidden email]> wrote:
The same question could be asked of any collective with a Wikipedia related goal. However, it could also be asked if in the Wikiverse (which supremely thrives on the value of collaborative work), it is inappropriate or redundant to form new collaboratives (like MediaWiki group or other specific focus groups) that are outside the purview of chapters or the Foundation for that matter. My hunch is that the formation of such any formal/informal group of this nature is welcome as long as it does not enter into trademark conflicts with existing entities. However, it beats me why there would be a need to consolidate a new collective within a chapter if there is no apparent need indicated by the group itself.

I am just wondering whether the ideal approach would be to propose the nature of support that the chapter can extend in stead of wondering why the group has not been merged or started by/within chapter members. This would probably also mislead enthusiastic Indian Wikipedians who are not chapter members to understand that they must streamline all their activities with existing formal entities.

Best,
Noopur


On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 6:05 PM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan <[hidden email]> wrote:
Noopur,
Thank you for your response,
However, you still haven't answered my question on what benefit a User Group has over Chapter SIG.
The Chapter was set up to help promote and streamline Wikimedia related activities in India.
We have been asked by affcom and your response would greatly help us understand why direct affiliation is really necessary.
It is more important to see what the long term benefits of this would be rather than to just create it because the option exists.
--



On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 5:46 PM, Noopur <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hey Srikanth,

Just weighing in since I also happen to be supporting this process. Perhaps a little background is necessary to know why MediaWiki groups have been started as an initiative. Also copying Quim since he might be able to shed more light on this issue. As I understand from the proposal page, this is a part of the new direction taken by the Foundation since the "narrowed focus..." It was suggested that more impetus be given to help build and support technical volunteer groups just like all cities and countries have their Wikipedia, Commons and other communities of interested volunteers.
I am also witness to an IRC conversation where possibilities of setting up local groups versus national were considered. As the highlighted in the discussion, I believe that it would be best for volunteers to work in local proximal groups (like MediaWiki group - Ahmedabad for instance) also with a language focus possibly (like several gadgets have been added to Gujarati Wikipedia as a run up to the group and so on). I believe the MediaWiki India mailing list which hopes to link up communities across the country is up and running now. As far as I understand forming specific interest groups doesn't require a formal identity or does not encroach upon other parallel entities' activities or privileges.

Just trying to fill the gaps since you might not have the background on MediaWiki groups conversations. Maybe Quim can correct me if I a mistaken.

Best,
Noopur


On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 5:24 PM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Harsh,
I have a few questions.
Was there any specific reason to go for a Separate MW Group? Is it due to legal/trademark issues or funding?
I'm sure that those two could be sorted if it were taken up by the Chapter similar to an SIG model.



On Fri, Dec 14, 2012 at 3:08 PM, Harsh Kothari <[hidden email]> wrote:
Dear friends,

This is to inform you all about the creation of the first MediaWiki group in India. For the past several days, I’ve been speaking to Quim Gil, Sumana and Yuvi Panda. I was informed about the setting up of local groups in different countries for technical contributors. With encouragement from all of them and with help from Noopur I submitted a proposal for the formation of MediaWiki Group Ahmedabad. This proposal has been endorsed by 7 people so far.

For those who might be interested in setting up similar groups, I think a Wikitech mailing list for India is being set up and personally, I would be happy to help you write a proposal for your community. I think it’s a great idea because with the help of this technical group we intend to make good technical infrastructure and editing environment for Gujarati Wikipedia easier to contribute to.

I have already ported HotCat and Popups(on the way) on Gujarati Wikipedia. Please have a look at the areas we want to collaborate on:

Areas of collaboration:
  • Localize Gadgets for Gujarati Wikipedia and Wikisource
  • Create New Gadgets and extensions
  • Bug solving for Gujarati Wikipedia and WikiSource and also other MediaWiki related Bug solving for all Indian languages
  • Translate into Gujarati Language, i.e http://translatewiki.net/
  • Wikidata


You can read the proposal here: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Groups/Proposals/Ahmedabad

Your endorsements, improvements and feedback are welcome at the wiki
page. Thank you!

Harsh Kothari

---
Harsh Kothari
Research Fellow, 
Physical Research Laboratory(PRL).
Ahmedabad.



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--
Srikanth Ramakrishnan
Member of the Executive Committee
Wikimedia Chapter [India]


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--
Noopur Raval
Student
Arts and Aesthetics
Jawaharlal Nehru University, New Delhi
Ph: 9650567690

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--
Srikanth Ramakrishnan
Member of the Executive Committee
Wikimedia Chapter [India]


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--
Noopur Raval
Student
Arts and Aesthetics
Jawaharlal Nehru University, New Delhi
Ph: 9650567690

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--
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Member of the Executive Committee
Wikimedia Chapter [India]


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Re: Proposal for India's First MediaWiki Group Ahmedabad

theo10011
In reply to this post by Noopur-2
On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 6:25 PM, Noopur <[hidden email]> wrote:
The same question could be asked of any collective with a Wikipedia related goal. However, it could also be asked if in the Wikiverse (which supremely thrives on the value of collaborative work), it is inappropriate or redundant to form new collaboratives (like MediaWiki group or other specific focus groups) that are outside the purview of chapters or the Foundation for that matter. My hunch is that the formation of such any formal/informal group of this nature is welcome as long as it does not enter into trademark conflicts with existing entities. However, it beats me why there would be a need to consolidate a new collective within a chapter if there is no apparent need indicated by the group itself.

Errr...this seems at odd what I have been following. If I were to summarize what you are stating above, is that it's inappropriate and redundant to form Mediawiki groups and other focused groups. You opinion is, as long as it doesn't include trademark usage, who cares? which by the way would be hard to justify since to have any sort of formal affiliation would have to carry Wikimedia or Mediawiki in their title, and show their relationship to have any legitimacy, which preserves the essence of representation of a global brand, and through that, exposure to the existing entities using the trademark , but I digress. 


I am just wondering whether the ideal approach would be to propose the nature of support that the chapter can extend in stead of wondering why the group has not been merged or started by/within chapter members. This would probably also mislead enthusiastic Indian Wikipedians who are not chapter members to understand that they must streamline all their activities with existing formal entities.


Regards
Theo


BTW will you be Cc'ing Quim on every response? :P 

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Re: Proposal for India's First MediaWiki Group Ahmedabad

Quim Gil-2
In reply to this post by Srikanth Ramakrishnan-3
Hi,

On 01/03/2013 05:11 AM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan wrote:

> Hi,
> I never mentioned anything about being part of the chapter.
> The chapter was set up to promote the movement in India and it has done
> so even in cases where a person/participant was NOT a part of the chapter..
> I merely asked what benefit the Group recieves by taking the User Group
> route over the Chapter SIG route.
>
>
> Harsh,
> What are your thoughts on the Chapter-SIG model.

Can you describe this Chapter SIG route / model, or point to a URL
explaining it? The only thing I could find is
http://wiki.wikimedia.in/City_and_Language_SIG_subcommittee_chair but
nothing about process or even group activities can be found there.

In the meantime, let me add a bit more to Noopur's argument and my
previous reply.

The main motivation of MediaWiki groups is unsurprisingly
http://mediawiki.org - the open source software and its community
around. They can be created in Ahmedabad, San Francisco, Mexico City,
Berlin or wherever, but they share common needs, common activities,
common materials and so on.

MediaWiki Groups were born at mediawiki.org because they were needed to
bring this open source community to the physical space. In a formal
sense they are just wiki pages with registered users signing up for
them. No non-profit creation, no formal membership... The whole identity
is based purely on activities organized.

It was a coincidence that the Wikimedia movement was about to approve
the User Groups while MediaWiki Groups were defined. We discussed with
the AffCom and we fine tuned the MediaWiki Groups requirements and
process in order to make them Wikimedia User Groups as well.

Then Harsh, Yuvi and also Sucheta showed up proposing a MediaWiki Group
India. At the end we decided that MediaWiki Groups need to be strictly
local, and that MediaWiki activities at a national level should be
better organized with the chapters, since they have already the
infrastructure for that. Then Harsh evolved the proposal to MediaWiki
Group Ahmedabad, Sucheta is already trying to gather critical mass for a
MediaWiki Group Kolkata, etc.

That's it. You can still argue that such organizations could be handled
a part of Wikimedia India SIGs, and that their promoters wouldn't be
required to be chapter members. I don't even disagree with the idea, but
in the right sequence of events: the motivation of these groups is
mediawiki.org and therefore good alignment and coordination within the
MediaWiki community is what matters most. I have no doubt that strong
MediaWiki Groups will contribute to the strength of the Wikimedia
community and their related chapters.

--
Quim Gil
Technical Contributor Coordinator @ Wikimedia Foundation
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Qgil

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Re: Proposal for India's First MediaWiki Group Ahmedabad

theo10011
On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 8:08 PM, Quim Gil <[hidden email]> wrote:
Can you describe this Chapter SIG route / model, or point to a URL explaining it? The only thing I could find is http://wiki.wikimedia.in/City_and_Language_SIG_subcommittee_chair but nothing about process or even group activities can be found there.

In the meantime, let me add a bit more to Noopur's argument and my previous reply.

The main motivation of MediaWiki groups is unsurprisingly http://mediawiki.org - the open source software and its community around. They can be created in Ahmedabad, San Francisco, Mexico City, Berlin or wherever, but they share common needs, common activities, common materials and so on.

It seems it's creation is being facilitated by staff members rather than anyone doing the actual work. I don't know if that's a way of circumventing other entities and creating a direct relationship model or just because we need more things carrying Wikimedia or Mediawiki names and risk further exposure.
 

MediaWiki Groups were born at mediawiki.org because they were needed to bring this open source community to the physical space. In a formal sense they are just wiki pages with registered users signing up for them. No non-profit creation, no formal membership... The whole identity is based purely on activities organized.

Could you provide some URL to point to how this idea of groups came upon for India. I only saw the staff leading the way for this instead of this coming about organically.  


It was a coincidence that the Wikimedia movement was about to approve the User Groups while MediaWiki Groups were defined. We discussed with the AffCom and we fine tuned the MediaWiki Groups requirements and process in order to make them Wikimedia User Groups as well.

Wikimedia Movement approved User groups? hmm I must have missed that. From my cursory search, I couldn't find the idea of of Mediawiki Groups predating User Groups, which still aren't very fleshed out. 
 

Then Harsh, Yuvi and also Sucheta showed up proposing a MediaWiki Group India. At the end we decided that MediaWiki Groups need to be strictly local, and that MediaWiki activities at a national level should be better organized with the chapters, since they have already the infrastructure for that. Then Harsh evolved the proposal to MediaWiki Group Ahmedabad, Sucheta is already trying to gather critical mass for a MediaWiki Group Kolkata, etc.

That's it. You can still argue that such organizations could be handled a part of Wikimedia India SIGs, and that their promoters wouldn't be required to be chapter members. I don't even disagree with the idea, but in the right sequence of events: the motivation of these groups is mediawiki.org and therefore good alignment and coordination within the MediaWiki community is what matters most. I have no doubt that strong MediaWiki Groups will contribute to the strength of the Wikimedia community and their related chapters.

I don't understand the pressing need to formalize their affiliation? The development can go on without groups, committees. I recall the staff organizing several hackathons and meetings in India in relation to this. Was there some aspect of that collaboration being held back by an informal relation model?

Regards
Theo 

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Re: Proposal for India's First MediaWiki Group Ahmedabad

samkit993@gmail.com
In reply to this post by Quim Gil-2
Truly said Quim and Noopur. The idea and motivation behind mediawiki
group is to encourage open source activities, particularly about
MediaWiki. At the same time, it also brings to gather people who are
working and can work in this perspective. So every wikimedian should
welcome this .

Regards,
Samkit
On 03-Jan-13 8:08 PM, Quim Gil wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On 01/03/2013 05:11 AM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan wrote:
>> Hi,
>> I never mentioned anything about being part of the chapter.
>> The chapter was set up to promote the movement in India and it has done
>> so even in cases where a person/participant was NOT a part of the
>> chapter..
>> I merely asked what benefit the Group recieves by taking the User Group
>> route over the Chapter SIG route.
>>
>>
>> Harsh,
>> What are your thoughts on the Chapter-SIG model.
>
> Can you describe this Chapter SIG route / model, or point to a URL
> explaining it? The only thing I could find is
> http://wiki.wikimedia.in/City_and_Language_SIG_subcommittee_chair but
> nothing about process or even group activities can be found there.
>
> In the meantime, let me add a bit more to Noopur's argument and my
> previous reply.
>
> The main motivation of MediaWiki groups is unsurprisingly
> http://mediawiki.org - the open source software and its community
> around. They can be created in Ahmedabad, San Francisco, Mexico City,
> Berlin or wherever, but they share common needs, common activities,
> common materials and so on.
>
> MediaWiki Groups were born at mediawiki.org because they were needed
> to bring this open source community to the physical space. In a formal
> sense they are just wiki pages with registered users signing up for
> them. No non-profit creation, no formal membership... The whole
> identity is based purely on activities organized.
>
> It was a coincidence that the Wikimedia movement was about to approve
> the User Groups while MediaWiki Groups were defined. We discussed with
> the AffCom and we fine tuned the MediaWiki Groups requirements and
> process in order to make them Wikimedia User Groups as well.
>
> Then Harsh, Yuvi and also Sucheta showed up proposing a MediaWiki
> Group India. At the end we decided that MediaWiki Groups need to be
> strictly local, and that MediaWiki activities at a national level
> should be better organized with the chapters, since they have already
> the infrastructure for that. Then Harsh evolved the proposal to
> MediaWiki Group Ahmedabad, Sucheta is already trying to gather
> critical mass for a MediaWiki Group Kolkata, etc.
>
> That's it. You can still argue that such organizations could be
> handled a part of Wikimedia India SIGs, and that their promoters
> wouldn't be required to be chapter members. I don't even disagree with
> the idea, but in the right sequence of events: the motivation of these
> groups is mediawiki.org and therefore good alignment and coordination
> within the MediaWiki community is what matters most. I have no doubt
> that strong MediaWiki Groups will contribute to the strength of the
> Wikimedia community and their related chapters.
>


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Re: Proposal for India's First MediaWiki Group Ahmedabad

Yuvi Panda
In reply to this post by theo10011


On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 8:21 PM, Theo10011 <[hidden email]> wrote:
Could you provide some URL to point to how this idea of groups came upon for India. I only saw the staff leading the way for this instead of this coming about organically.  

This happened on IRC over a few hours, between me, quim and harsh. Most of the conversation was quim convincing me that a mediawiki-india list would be a much better Idea than a MediaWiki India User Group (which he succeeded in), and Harsh volunteering to start the Ahmedabad one. The logging bot has been wonky, so no logs. 

As for 'why User Groups, why not a SIG' - the User Group idea is neither unique nor novel - it is a very well understood concept. Linux User Groups, Python User Groups, Ruby User Groups, Java User Groups, etc abound on per-city levels. This is just another user group for a piece of open source software. MediaWiki does not run just Wikipedia, but is also (IIRC) the most popular software used for standalone wikis. Plenty of projects that use MediaWiki have nothing to do with the Wikimedia movement (An experiment with using Semantic MediaWiki for Public Transit routing a bunch of us tried a few years ago, the w3c wiki (w3.org/wiki), lots of internal company's documentation wikis, lots of open source software wikis, etc). 

And 'why formalize their affiliation'? IIRC you need to go through the process to obtain the right to use 'MediaWiki' in your group's title. That is all (from my perspective, at least).

--
Yuvi Panda T
http://yuvi.in/blog

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Re: Proposal for India's First MediaWiki Group Ahmedabad

theo10011
Hi Yuvi

On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 9:37 PM, Yuvi Panda <[hidden email]> wrote:
This happened on IRC over a few hours, between me, quim and harsh. Most of the conversation was quim convincing me that a mediawiki-india list would be a much better Idea than a MediaWiki India User Group (which he succeeded in), and Harsh volunteering to start the Ahmedabad one. The logging bot has been wonky, so no logs. 

So, to summarize again, Quim, a staff member, and you, a contractor/staff member had a discussion with harsh - I don't know harsh so please forgo any mistaken assumption on my part, had a discussion on IRC, and between the three, it was decided, if a group would be a better option to a list. Unfortunately, there are no logs to even prove the above discussion, which would brig me to reiterate what I said earlier, now confirmed with the explanation above. For the time being, I stand by what I said.
 

As for 'why User Groups, why not a SIG' - the User Group idea is neither unique nor novel - it is a very well understood concept. Linux User Groups, Python User Groups, Ruby User Groups, Java User Groups, etc abound on per-city levels. This is just another user group for a piece of open source software. MediaWiki does not run just Wikipedia, but is also (IIRC) the most popular software used for standalone wikis. Plenty of projects that use MediaWiki have nothing to do with the Wikimedia movement (An experiment with using Semantic MediaWiki for Public Transit routing a bunch of us tried a few years ago, the w3c wiki (w3.org/wiki), lots of internal company's documentation wikis, lots of open source software wikis, etc). 

Hmm I have no idea about these user groups, or what levels of formalization they do have, so I'll take your word for it. What I do know is the concept of Wikimedia User groups is a new territory for us, the first group using this approach is being led by the staff, as I said earlier. 

Second, MediaWiki *is* independent and might have nothing to do with Wikimedia. But then again, why are we on a list of Wikimedia asking Wikipedians to join or create the said group? To the extent of my knowledge, Mediawiki is a platform, a piece of software, in terms of real world implications it has no existence. Which would then lead the discussion back in to the circle, that went on the tech list about a MediaWiki foundation and an independent identity, because clearly that's the problem we have right now - shortage of committees, and groups and organizations to conflate a bunch of stuff rather than the actual work they are supposed to do.  

The simplest question is what would this achieve? Let's say there is a group or a list, what then? would the work materialize that so far has not? or would we be left with dead organizations in a year or two that will continue to carry the Wikimedia or Mediawiki name till someone realizes the exposure of proliferating these. I can point you to 2 dozen dead lists with no activities, in order to get wider participation they forward important announcements to the major lists like this, so, if you end up forwarding to the India list most of the times, what is the separate list achieving. It's the same people, perhaps more so on the older lists. 
 

And 'why formalize their affiliation'? IIRC you need to go through the process to obtain the right to use 'MediaWiki' in your group's title. That is all (from my perspective, at least).

Actually, the discussion about demarcating the rights to use a term is still ongoing. Thematic organizations are being discussed on Meta and if they should use Wikimedia or even Wiki in their name, I suppose some extension would apply to Mediawiki as well. I hope I don't need to point out that the 2 words are the same in both organizations, 'Media' and 'Wiki'.

Regards
Theo

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Re: Proposal for India's First MediaWiki Group Ahmedabad

Quim Gil-2
Hi Theo, I will reply your questions in detail later.

I just want to make sure that anybody engaging in this discussion has
read https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Groups and understands what a
MediaWiki Group is. The motivations, process, etc is also explained
there. If there is something there you don't understand or you think
it's wrong let's discuss.

About the proposals, check

https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Groups/Proposals

Yes, those of us being MediaWiki community members with full time
dedication (aka WMF employees) are currently pushing many of the first
proposals. It makes sense: we can dedicate more time and we are anyway
leading other MediaWiki activities that would benefit from such groups.

Then again MediaWiki Group Ahmedabad is NOT one of these cases. Harsh is
a pure MediaWiki volunteer.

https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Groups/Proposals/M%C3%A9xico is another
example of a proposal pushed entirely by volunteers with no connection
to the WMF. In their case Wikimedia Mexico explicitly supports the
creation of the group.

--
Quim Gil
Technical Contributor Coordinator @ Wikimedia Foundation
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Qgil

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Re: Proposal for India's First MediaWiki Group Ahmedabad

Noopur-2
In reply to this post by theo10011
Theo, 

I am not sure where this discussion is going to. Srikanth had specific questions on why the MediaWiki user group and why not a technical SIG instead. At least that's what I gather from his mail. 
However you seem to be asking why a MediaWiki user group at all. For this you will need to rewind to previous mailing list threads where community members, oblivious to any possibility of such MediaWiki groups had expressed the desire to have some kind of a technical collaborative. In fact on this thread itself, I remember a response on the chapter list informing people whom this could interest. The mailing list objections don't quite make sense to me. Nor do the arguments about dead groups. That is the nature of volunteer communities perhaps. People were informed about this proposal on all lists precisely due to te absence of an existing tech list. 
I personally don't see why there needs to be any justification to start a collaborative group as long as it is not pulling on precious resources. If enthusiastic volunteers of Ahmedabad wish to call themselves MediaWiki group Ahmedabad and have already localized gadgets and think that formalizing would attract more like minded local users, I don't see any harm. 

Did you see the mini hackathon post and the announcement for all interested members to have a chat with Sumana? Did you also see sucheta and pratik's initiatives in the same vein? Wouldn't it be unfair to term this as an absolute staff initiative and undermine their effort? 

Best, 
Noopur 


On Jan 3, 2013, at 10:07 PM, Theo10011 <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Yuvi

On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 9:37 PM, Yuvi Panda <[hidden email]> wrote:
This happened on IRC over a few hours, between me, quim and harsh. Most of the conversation was quim convincing me that a mediawiki-india list would be a much better Idea than a MediaWiki India User Group (which he succeeded in), and Harsh volunteering to start the Ahmedabad one. The logging bot has been wonky, so no logs. 

So, to summarize again, Quim, a staff member, and you, a contractor/staff member had a discussion with harsh - I don't know harsh so please forgo any mistaken assumption on my part, had a discussion on IRC, and between the three, it was decided, if a group would be a better option to a list. Unfortunately, there are no logs to even prove the above discussion, which would brig me to reiterate what I said earlier, now confirmed with the explanation above. For the time being, I stand by what I said.
 

As for 'why User Groups, why not a SIG' - the User Group idea is neither unique nor novel - it is a very well understood concept. Linux User Groups, Python User Groups, Ruby User Groups, Java User Groups, etc abound on per-city levels. This is just another user group for a piece of open source software. MediaWiki does not run just Wikipedia, but is also (IIRC) the most popular software used for standalone wikis. Plenty of projects that use MediaWiki have nothing to do with the Wikimedia movement (An experiment with using Semantic MediaWiki for Public Transit routing a bunch of us tried a few years ago, the w3c wiki (w3.org/wiki), lots of internal company's documentation wikis, lots of open source software wikis, etc). 

Hmm I have no idea about these user groups, or what levels of formalization they do have, so I'll take your word for it. What I do know is the concept of Wikimedia User groups is a new territory for us, the first group using this approach is being led by the staff, as I said earlier. 

Second, MediaWiki *is* independent and might have nothing to do with Wikimedia. But then again, why are we on a list of Wikimedia asking Wikipedians to join or create the said group? To the extent of my knowledge, Mediawiki is a platform, a piece of software, in terms of real world implications it has no existence. Which would then lead the discussion back in to the circle, that went on the tech list about a MediaWiki foundation and an independent identity, because clearly that's the problem we have right now - shortage of committees, and groups and organizations to conflate a bunch of stuff rather than the actual work they are supposed to do.  

The simplest question is what would this achieve? Let's say there is a group or a list, what then? would the work materialize that so far has not? or would we be left with dead organizations in a year or two that will continue to carry the Wikimedia or Mediawiki name till someone realizes the exposure of proliferating these. I can point you to 2 dozen dead lists with no activities, in order to get wider participation they forward important announcements to the major lists like this, so, if you end up forwarding to the India list most of the times, what is the separate list achieving. It's the same people, perhaps more so on the older lists. 
 

And 'why formalize their affiliation'? IIRC you need to go through the process to obtain the right to use 'MediaWiki' in your group's title. That is all (from my perspective, at least).

Actually, the discussion about demarcating the rights to use a term is still ongoing. Thematic organizations are being discussed on Meta and if they should use Wikimedia or even Wiki in their name, I suppose some extension would apply to Mediawiki as well. I hope I don't need to point out that the 2 words are the same in both organizations, 'Media' and 'Wiki'.

Regards
Theo
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Re: Proposal for India's First MediaWiki Group Ahmedabad

Pradeep Mohandas-4
In reply to this post by theo10011
hi,

Frankly, I don't thing there should be any objections on the formation of any groups whether by the Chapter or by individual members in the community or by Staff. This just provides people with a variety of options to join and participate. The groups formed with reference to the Chapter or under WMF need to be formed under procedures laid down under each.

If the chapter wishes to form the group, it can do so. If an individual wants to start a MediaWiki group can be left to the individual and the processes (once finalised, if it is not?) are followed. I guess the choice of choosing which group an individual wants to be belong to can be decided best by the individual.

Eventually, either all the groups will die out or people will join the more active groups.

just my two cents worth,
Pradeep

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Re: Proposal for India's First MediaWiki Group Ahmedabad

Srikanth Ramakrishnan-3
Just to let you all know:
Our Executive Manager Sowmyan met Erik some time back and asked if he needed any help from the chapter. Erik said we could hold quarterly hackathons in different parts of India.
We are more than happy to do this and would like the Community to support us.
We are nothing without the community and volunteers.


On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 10:29 PM, Pradeep Mohandas <[hidden email]> wrote:
hi,

Frankly, I don't thing there should be any objections on the formation of any groups whether by the Chapter or by individual members in the community or by Staff. This just provides people with a variety of options to join and participate. The groups formed with reference to the Chapter or under WMF need to be formed under procedures laid down under each.

If the chapter wishes to form the group, it can do so. If an individual wants to start a MediaWiki group can be left to the individual and the processes (once finalised, if it is not?) are followed. I guess the choice of choosing which group an individual wants to be belong to can be decided best by the individual.

Eventually, either all the groups will die out or people will join the more active groups.

just my two cents worth,
Pradeep

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--
Srikanth Ramakrishnan
Member of the Executive Committee
Wikimedia Chapter [India]


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Re: Proposal for India's First MediaWiki Group Ahmedabad

Konarak Ratnakar-2
Hi,

A local MediaWiki Group is a nice initiative be it in Ahmedabad or anywhere else as long as there are enthusiastic volunteers involved. It'll be nice to see this group come to life (MediaWiki group Ahmedabad or a chapter SIG).

I must say it's quite awkward not seeing any involvement of Harsh, as the proposer of this group, in this discussion while he's been sending emails to other lists.

Best,
-- 
Konarak Ratnakar


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Re: Proposal for India's First MediaWiki Group Ahmedabad

Quim Gil-2
In reply to this post by Srikanth Ramakrishnan-3
On 01/03/2013 10:02 AM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan wrote:
> Just to let you all know:
> Our Executive Manager Sowmyan met Erik some time back and asked if he
> needed any help from the chapter. Erik said we could hold quarterly
> hackathons in different parts of India.
> We are more than happy to do this and would like the Community to
> support us.
> We are nothing without the community and volunteers.

This is very good!

But this is a separate discussion than MediaWiki Group Ahmedabad, or
isn't it?

Please open a new thread to set the basics of the first event. If they
are meant to be organized quarterly you'd better start planning already
the first one.

PS: just in case you are wondering, Erik is fully supportive of
MediaWiki Groups as they are part of the WMF Engineering team goals [1].
Have no doubt that having several of such groups spread in the Indian
territory will help you having successful hackathons adding up to the
Wikimedia & MediaWiki penetration in India.

[1]
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Engineering/2012-13_Goals#Milestones_by_quarter_17

--
Quim Gil
Technical Contributor Coordinator @ Wikimedia Foundation
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Qgil

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Re: Proposal for India's First MediaWiki Group Ahmedabad

Quim Gil-2
In reply to this post by Srikanth Ramakrishnan-3
Are we still stuck in this question? It kept me thinking the whole day
yesterday.

On 01/03/2013 04:35 AM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan wrote:
> However, you still haven't answered my question on what benefit a User
> Group has over Chapter SIG.

Summarizing, the answer could be:

- The Wikimedia movement is organized around projects with high levels
of autonomy e.g. MediaWiki or Wikimedia India. For an Indian group
focused in MediaWiki it makes sense to align first with MediaWiki, then
with Wikimedia India.

- MediaWiki Groups are official for the Wikimedia movement and the
MediaWiki community, and all the discussion and documentation is public.
Wikimedia India Chapter SIGs are still not official, they have been
discussed internally, they apply to India only.

- MediaWiki Groups are open source user groups, a type of casual
organization with plenty of references in India and the World. They are
all about Getting Things Done. Aspects like membership or planning get
resolved with edits in a wiki page. Affiliation to Wikimedia India or
any other organization is not required.


But the point that keeps me thinking is why the first response from
Wikimedia India chapter to a new group of volunteers seems to be
inquiring and resisting more than congratulating and embracing. When the
AffCom said they wanted to check with the national chapter I thought it
was a polite move and a way to make sure than nothing was wrong locally
in Ahmedabad / Gujarat. I didn't expect a full questioning of MediaWiki
Groups - or Wikimedia User Groups for that matter.

Since these groups are new, maybe the problem is caused simply by a
misunderstanding? Let me clarify some points, just in case:

Wikimedia User Groups are official and well defined at
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_User_Groups

MediaWiki Groups are a category of WUG, also official
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Groups

MediaWiki Groups are almost ad-hoc associations, without any legal
identity and basically zero bureaucracy once the group is accepted.


While the WUG pages don't make any explicit reference to their
relationship with chapters, MediaWiki Groups do have explicit
requirements for collaboration with chapters.

 From https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Groups :

"You know you need a group when (...) You want to obtain funding from
the Wikimedia Foundation or a Wikimedia chapter."

"Local MediaWiki groups collaborate with Wikimedia chapters"

"MediaWiki groups can request support from the Wikimedia Foundation and
chapters in various forms:"

"If cash is needed then the default funding sources are Wikimedia
chapters and Funds Dissemination Committee."


For all these reasons I really don't see what is the problem. In fact
the question posed above could be reverted: has Wikimedia India
considered the benefits of adopting the already formalized Wikimedia
User Groups and MediaWiki Groups instead of trying to define an Indian
specific type of SIG?


But going back to MediaWiki Group Ahmedabad, I hope we get to an
agreement sooner than later so Harsh and other MediaWiki promoters in
India get out of this uncomfortable position and focus on their local
activities.

--
Quim Gil
Technical Contributor Coordinator @ Wikimedia Foundation
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Qgil

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Re: Proposal for India's First MediaWiki Group Ahmedabad

Quim Gil-2
In reply to this post by theo10011
On 01/03/2013 08:37 AM, Theo10011 wrote:
> So, to summarize again, Quim, a staff member, and you, a

No, https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Groups were proposed at the MediaWiki
community and wikimedia-l, they were discussed also with the
Affiliations Committee and they were finally approved and announced last
month.

Then Harsh and other volunteers in Ahmedabad interested in MediaWiki
decided to take that route, and announced their proposal in several
MediaWiki and Wikimedia India channels:

https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Groups/Proposals/Ahmedabad

Harsh sent the proposal also to this list on Dec 14 (it didn't raise any
reply until 15 days later, btw)
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediaindia-l/2012-December/009013.html 



> Second, MediaWiki *is* independent and might have nothing to do with
> Wikimedia. But then again, why are we on a list of Wikimedia asking
> Wikipedians to join or create the said group?

The MediaWiki community is a piece of the Wikimedia movement that can
have ramifications out of it, like in the case of people using MediaWiki
for their own websites.

Still, something like a proposal on a new MediaWiki Group Ahmedabad is
clearly on-topic in this list. If you don't bother, then an option is
just delete the email and don't bother.  :)


> To the extent of my
> knowledge, Mediawiki is a platform, a piece of software, in terms of
> real world implications it has no existence. Which would then lead the
> discussion back in to the circle, that went on the tech list about a
> MediaWiki foundation and an independent identity, because clearly that's
> the problem we have right now - shortage of committees, and groups and
> organizations to conflate a bunch of stuff rather than the actual work
> they are supposed to do.

I agree with you(r irony) here. And precisely because of this MediaWiki
Groups are designed to facilitate ad-hoc work without any bureaucratic
overhead. The paradox is that a thread like this is creating overhead (I
should be doing other things right now, like the rest of people active
in this discussion). Still I hope it's worth having the discussion once
and forever. After this proposing and resolving on MediaWiki Groups
should be a fast process letting focus the teams of volunteers on the
actual work.

> The simplest question is what would this achieve?

The simplest answer is:

- MediaWiki Group X members are empowered to represent the MediaWiki
communiy in X.
- For someone interested in MediaWiki + X it will be easier to find the
right information and contacts to get involved.

There was a discussion about this at wikitech-l, see the thread starting at
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2012-December/065333.html

If after reading the thread you have more observations about MediaWiki
Groups then please share them at wikitech-l.


> Thematic organizations are being discussed on Meta and if
> they should use Wikimedia or even Wiki in their name, I suppose some
> extension would apply to Mediawiki as well.

Well, no. "MediaWiki" with the sunflower logo are different things. But
also, thematic organizations are meant to be heavier, incorporated
organizations while MediaWiki Groups are lightweight and not
incorporated. If a MediaWiki group is repeatedly misbehaving the whole
problem could be (radically) solved by deleting a wiki page and blocking
users - applying the (radical) problem resolution in the Wikipedia way.
As soon as you have an incorporated organization things get more tricky.

But we are getting off-topic. If you want to discuss Wikimedia User
Groups or MediaWiki Groups as such then the right place to do it is in
their discussion pages or at wikimedia-l / wikitech-l.

--
Quim Gil
Technical Contributor Coordinator @ Wikimedia Foundation
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Qgil

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