Public domain day 2012

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Public domain day 2012

geni
Yes we are coming up to January 1st when things go public domain in
the UK. I understand there will be a bit of a party. Fireworks and
suchlike.

My list of works that go PD is a bit short at the moment and mostly
focused on the your paintings thing but I hope to expand it a bit
before the new year:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Geni/1941_deaths

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Re: Public domain day 2012

Michael Peel-4
Hi Geni & all,

When WMUK's promoted public domain day in the past, we've run into problems with explaining what this actually means for Wikimedia - since all of the projects follow US copyright law, nothing seems to change in terms of what content the Wikimedia projects can host and/or reuse. The only change that this seems to make is that UK residents can legally upload content that's also outside of US copyright law, rather than risking infringing UK copyright by doing so - which is a considerably harder point to get across to people.

I guess we could say "yay, the content's now public domain in the UK - please could the US change its laws so that it's also public domain in the US so we can use it on Wikimedia", but I'm not sure that the news would reach the right audiences to say that...

Any ideas?

Thanks,
Mike

On 31 Oct 2011, at 12:37, geni wrote:

> Yes we are coming up to January 1st when things go public domain in
> the UK. I understand there will be a bit of a party. Fireworks and
> suchlike.
>
> My list of works that go PD is a bit short at the moment and mostly
> focused on the your paintings thing but I hope to expand it a bit
> before the new year:
>
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Geni/1941_deaths
>
> --
> geni
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia UK mailing list
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> http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
> WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org


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Re: Public domain day 2012

Andrew Gray-3
In reply to this post by geni
On 31 October 2011 12:37, geni <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Yes we are coming up to January 1st when things go public domain in
> the UK. I understand there will be a bit of a party. Fireworks and
> suchlike.
>
> My list of works that go PD is a bit short at the moment and mostly
> focused on the your paintings thing but I hope to expand it a bit
> before the new year:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Geni/1941_deaths

The most prominent British writer to die in 1941 was Virginia Woolf,
so no doubt we'll see a spate of reprints by about March. Others
include Hugh Walpole (prolific but mostly forgotten), P. C. Wren
("Beau Geste"), A. G. Macdonell ("England, Their England"), H. E.
Marshall ("Our Island Story").

Non-fiction writers include Sir James George Frazer ("The Golden
Bough") and Evelyn Underhill (a major writer on Christian mysticism).

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Re: Public domain day 2012

Charles Matthews
In reply to this post by geni


On 31 October 2011 12:37, geni <[hidden email]> wrote:
Yes we are coming up to January 1st when things go public domain in
the UK. I understand there will be a bit of a party. Fireworks and
suchlike.

My list of works that go PD is a bit short at the moment and mostly
focused on the your paintings thing but I hope to expand it a bit
before the new year:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Geni/1941_deaths


There is/was a basic Magnus Manske tool that searched interwiki to find authors who met the (death year)+X criterion for the first time in 2012 or whenever, according to jurisdiction.

To reply to both this mail and Mike's: WMUK  missed participation in the business of PDD on New Year's  Day 2011; but with a longer lead time for considering what to do that doesn't have to be the case for 2012. There is http://www.publicdomainday.org/ and the chapter ought to find out who is behind that, in concrete terms I think (point 1).

Point 2 is that international copyright law makes the whole business a remarkably tiresome exposition; but there is no reason at all not to document it and have a tool such as Magnus's to demonstrate some aspects of it (illustrating both the global reach of the issue, depending on what languages you read, and the strength of WP as a source of the required data). This is for general interest in terms of the author's life + criterion. There could be press interest in a well-packaged feature proposal about this area, but it would have to be put together in November, really. NB the media interest is not about the wrinkles of free content, but about filling space with something showing originality.

Point 3: American PD. The 2010 experience showed those who participated in the Telegraph story how tight the constraints are for anything to fall into the public domain in the USA. Take this as a challenge, though. The more lawyer-like amongst us could be well employed in researching the very restricted class of new PD material, to see what can be found. I certainly think, at the more specialist end of the market for discussion about free content, this is a worthy little project.

Charles

 

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Re: Public domain day 2012

geni
In reply to this post by Michael Peel-4
On 31 October 2011 12:59, Michael Peel <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I guess we could say "yay, the content's now public domain in the UK - please could the US change its laws so that it's also public >domain in the US so we can use it on Wikimedia", but I'm not sure that the news would reach the right audiences to say that...
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>

A list of pre-1923 works by authored who died in 1941 can be provided.
My main worry is avoiding those who died as a result of enemy action
during WW2.


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Re: Public domain day 2012

Thomas Dalton
On 31 October 2011 15:14, geni <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 31 October 2011 12:59, Michael Peel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I guess we could say "yay, the content's now public domain in the UK - please could the US change its laws so that it's also public >domain in the US so we can use it on Wikimedia", but I'm not sure that the news would reach the right audiences to say that...
>>
>> Any ideas?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Mike
>>
>
> A list of pre-1923 works by authored who died in 1941 can be provided.
> My main worry is avoiding those who died as a result of enemy action
> during WW2.

Do we need to avoid them for some special legal reason or just because
we don't feel comfortable saying "Yay! This brilliant author got shot
in the head defending his country 70 years ago so we can now copy his
books with paying for them!"? If it's the latter, then we can probably
word things sufficiently delicately.

I think we can do some good work building up public awareness of the
public domain without getting into the complicated aspects of how it
applies to Wikipedia. I would suggest just ignoring Wikipedia (apart
from introducing ourselves) and talking about PD in general terms.

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Re: Public domain day 2012

Magnus Manske-2
In reply to this post by Charles Matthews
On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 1:58 PM, Charles Matthews
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> On 31 October 2011 12:37, geni <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Yes we are coming up to January 1st when things go public domain in
>> the UK. I understand there will be a bit of a party. Fireworks and
>> suchlike.
>>
>> My list of works that go PD is a bit short at the moment and mostly
>> focused on the your paintings thing but I hope to expand it a bit
>> before the new year:
>>
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Geni/1941_deaths
>>
>
> There is/was a basic Magnus Manske tool that searched interwiki to find
> authors who met the (death year)+X criterion for the first time in 2012 or
> whenever, according to jurisdiction.

That would be:
http://toolserver.org/~magnus/PDator.php

Not sure if it's still working, especially with the current poor state
of the toolserver (I know, help is on the way...)

Magnus

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Re: Public domain day 2012

Deryck Chan
In reply to this post by Thomas Dalton

I won't deliberately avoid using works whose copyright will expire next year due to the author dying in the war in 1941. That's a moral right, not copyright. Wikimedia shouldn't take sides on moral right issues.

On Oct 31, 2011 3:49 PM, "Thomas Dalton" <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 31 October 2011 15:14, geni <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 31 October 2011 12:59, Michael Peel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I guess we could say "yay, the content's now public domain in the UK - please could the US change its laws so that it's also public >domain in the US so we can use it on Wikimedia", but I'm not sure that the news would reach the right audiences to say that...
>>
>> Any ideas?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Mike
>>
>
> A list of pre-1923 works by authored who died in 1941 can be provided.
> My main worry is avoiding those who died as a result of enemy action
> during WW2.

Do we need to avoid them for some special legal reason or just because
we don't feel comfortable saying "Yay! This brilliant author got shot
in the head defending his country 70 years ago so we can now copy his
books with paying for them!"? If it's the latter, then we can probably
word things sufficiently delicately.

I think we can do some good work building up public awareness of the
public domain without getting into the complicated aspects of how it
applies to Wikipedia. I would suggest just ignoring Wikipedia (apart
from introducing ourselves) and talking about PD in general terms.

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Re: Public domain day 2012

Fae-6
On 31 October 2011 16:27, Deryck Chan <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I won't deliberately avoid using works whose copyright will expire next year
> due to the author dying in the war in 1941. That's a moral right, not
> copyright. Wikimedia shouldn't take sides on moral right issues.

The language may be confusing here, "moral rights" are specific legal
copyright law rights which one may defend in court in order to gain
compensation. Examples include the right of attribution even though
the work is free to reuse. See
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_rights_(copyright_law)>. In this
case Wikimedia does take a stance on moral rights as we see they are
maintained in the license terms.

Cheers,
Fae

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Re: Public domain day 2012

Tim Dobson-5
In reply to this post by Andrew Gray-3
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On 31/10/11 13:45, Andrew Gray wrote:
> On 31 October 2011 12:37, geni <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Geni/1941_deaths
>
> The most prominent British writer to die in 1941 was Virginia Woolf,
> so no doubt we'll see a spate of reprints by about March. Others
> include Hugh Walpole (prolific but mostly forgotten), P. C. Wren
> ("Beau Geste"), A. G. Macdonell ("England, Their England"), H. E.
> Marshall ("Our Island Story").
>

Just added my great grandfather, Max Plowman ("A Subletern on the
Somme") to the list. :D

The copyrights is still in the family, and this has largely zero
relevance to wikimedia, but I'm still happy his works are going public
domain. :D
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Re: Public domain day 2012

Andrew Gray-3
In reply to this post by Thomas Dalton
On 31 October 2011 15:49, Thomas Dalton <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Do we need to avoid them for some special legal reason or just because
> we don't feel comfortable saying "Yay! This brilliant author got shot
> in the head defending his country 70 years ago so we can now copy his
> books with paying for them!"? If it's the latter, then we can probably
> word things sufficiently delicately.

It's a legal issue, but *only* regarding French authors (at least, I'm
not immediately aware of any other countries which do the same thing).
As part of a general French law regarding those killed or injured in
wartime (and their dependents), authorial copyrights are extended by
an additional thirty years in these cases, from seventy years after
death to a hundred years after death. (A side-effect of this is that
the *first* cases will become PD in a few years - 1 January 2015 for
those killed during 1914.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mort_pour_la_France

French law also has an odd caveat for works which were in copyright
during the two world wars; the periods of these wars are not counted
for calculating expiry dates, thus meaning that some works which were
still in copyright in 1939, and would have expired over the next few
years, will not do so for a bit longer. Per our article, this only
applies for musical works - a court recently annulled it for most
works - so we can just omit French composers from our calculations!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_law_of_France

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Re: Public domain day 2012

geni
In reply to this post by Thomas Dalton
On 31 October 2011 15:49, Thomas Dalton <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Do we need to avoid them for some special legal reason or just because
> we don't feel comfortable saying "Yay! This brilliant author got shot
> in the head defending his country 70 years ago so we can now copy his
> books with paying for them!"? If it's the latter, then we can probably
> word things sufficiently delicately.

Legal reasons are limited to France. Its mostly a PR thing. Don't want
the risk of someone starting a campaign to extend copyright because
someone got bombed during WW2.


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Re: Public domain day 2012

geni
In reply to this post by Deryck Chan
On 31 October 2011 16:27, Deryck Chan <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I won't deliberately avoid using works whose copyright will expire next year
> due to the author dying in the war in 1941. That's a moral right, not
> copyright. Wikimedia shouldn't take sides on moral right issues.


I wouldn't avoid it but I might avoid drawing attention to the fact
I'm doing it.


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Re: Public domain day 2012

Charles Matthews
In reply to this post by Tim Dobson-5


On 31 October 2011 17:19, Tim Dobson <[hidden email]> wrote:

Just added my great grandfather, Max Plowman ("A Subletern on the
Somme") to the list. :D

Interesting - I started the article about him in 2008. There was some spat over Plowman and Orwell's line on pacifism, so I've just looked at it and the ODNB version. Fairly different (and no Orwell at all in the ODNB, something about William Blake instead). Could be a fair amount of work to do, and there are redlinks, which I always like to see.

Charles 

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Re: Public domain day 2012

geni
On 31 October 2011 19:25, Charles Matthews
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> On 31 October 2011 17:19, Tim Dobson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Just added my great grandfather, Max Plowman ("A Subletern on the
>> Somme") to the list. :D
>>
> Interesting - I started the article about him in 2008. There was some spat
> over Plowman and Orwell's line on pacifism, so I've just looked at it and
> the ODNB version. Fairly different (and no Orwell at all in the ODNB,
> something about William Blake instead). Could be a fair amount of work to
> do, and there are redlinks, which I always like to see.
> Charles

In this case I think they are mostly minor artists who would be hard
to write articles on.

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Re: Public domain day 2012

Charles Matthews


On 31 October 2011 20:42, geni <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 31 October 2011 19:25, Charles Matthews
<[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> On 31 October 2011 17:19, Tim Dobson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Just added my great grandfather, Max Plowman ("A Subletern on the
>> Somme") to the list. :D
>>
> Interesting - I started the article about him in 2008. There was some spat
> over Plowman and Orwell's line on pacifism, so I've just looked at it and
> the ODNB version. Fairly different (and no Orwell at all in the ODNB,
> something about William Blake instead). Could be a fair amount of work to
> do, and there are redlinks, which I always like to see.
> Charles

In this case I think they are mostly minor artists who would be hard
to write articles on.

Oh, but Richard Heron Ward is namechecked in a footnote to [[John Hospers]]'s classic Introduction to Philosophical Analysis in relation to his early LSD trips. Drugs, pacifism, US libertarian, I don't understand why the article doesn't exist already.

Charles 

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Re: Public domain day 2012

Andrew Gray-3
In reply to this post by Andrew Gray-3
On 31 October 2011 13:45, Andrew Gray <[hidden email]> wrote:

> The most prominent British writer to die in 1941 was Virginia Woolf,
> so no doubt we'll see a spate of reprints by about March. Others
> include Hugh Walpole (prolific but mostly forgotten), P. C. Wren
> ("Beau Geste"), A. G. Macdonell ("England, Their England"), H. E.
> Marshall ("Our Island Story").

Following on from this, I tried skimming some other countries, and got
very excited when I noticed Tagore died in 1941, but on examination
he's in the public domain already - India is life + 60.

Japan, Canada and New Zealand are life + 50, but I don't immediately
see any exciting cases who died in 1961; Australia is in the process
of transitioning from life + 50 to life + 70, and as a result no-one
new will fall into the public domain this year. France is best left
aside as discussed above; Germany is life + 70, which means Emanuel
Lasker's books on chess will become PD, along with a handful of minor
novelists.

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  [hidden email]

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