Re: Buy Wikipedia?

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Re: Buy Wikipedia?

Mike R-2
Correcting spelling of "buy" in case anyone else was as confused as I was.

On 8/30/07, Milos Rancic <[hidden email]> wrote:

> So, let's test a little bit Google's tolerance ;) (my site is on
> Google: http://www.millosh.org/by_wikipedia.png)
>
> The point is that, as you see, inside of the add ons Google has
> commercial "By Wikipedia". Even the most of problems related to
> Google's financing Wikimedia are not on the Google's side, I think
> that Google should give money for promoting non-Wikimedia sites for
> money with the phrase "By Wikipedia".
>
> On 8/30/07, Gary Kirk <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > No Wikimedia project is currently ad-supported, Google or otherwise. I
> > believe the stance is 'never say never', but I would think the
> > introduction of ads would be extremely unlikely and similarly
> > unpopular.
> > Hope this helps.
> >
> > On 8/30/07, Milos Rancic <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > I hope that a small image will pass the list.
> > >
> > > So, the question is: Does WMF have some money from such kind of Google
> > > commercials?
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Gary Kirk
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

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Re: Buy Wikipedia?

Milos Rancic-2
Ah, sorry :) Yes, "buy", not "by"...

On 8/30/07, Mike R <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Correcting spelling of "buy" in case anyone else was as confused as I was.
>
> On 8/30/07, Milos Rancic <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > So, let's test a little bit Google's tolerance ;) (my site is on
> > Google: http://www.millosh.org/by_wikipedia.png)
> >
> > The point is that, as you see, inside of the add ons Google has
> > commercial "By Wikipedia". Even the most of problems related to
> > Google's financing Wikimedia are not on the Google's side, I think
> > that Google should give money for promoting non-Wikimedia sites for
> > money with the phrase "By Wikipedia".
> >
> > On 8/30/07, Gary Kirk <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > No Wikimedia project is currently ad-supported, Google or otherwise. I
> > > believe the stance is 'never say never', but I would think the
> > > introduction of ads would be extremely unlikely and similarly
> > > unpopular.
> > > Hope this helps.
> > >
> > > On 8/30/07, Milos Rancic <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > I hope that a small image will pass the list.
> > > >
> > > > So, the question is: Does WMF have some money from such kind of Google
> > > > commercials?
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Gary Kirk
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > foundation-l mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

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Re: Buy Wikipedia?

Florence Devouard-3
Sorry, but I really do not understand what you are talking about. Where
would that be ?

Ant

Milos Rancic wrote:

> Ah, sorry :) Yes, "buy", not "by"...
>
> On 8/30/07, Mike R <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Correcting spelling of "buy" in case anyone else was as confused as I was.
>>
>> On 8/30/07, Milos Rancic <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> So, let's test a little bit Google's tolerance ;) (my site is on
>>> Google: http://www.millosh.org/by_wikipedia.png)
>>>
>>> The point is that, as you see, inside of the add ons Google has
>>> commercial "By Wikipedia". Even the most of problems related to
>>> Google's financing Wikimedia are not on the Google's side, I think
>>> that Google should give money for promoting non-Wikimedia sites for
>>> money with the phrase "By Wikipedia".
>>>
>>> On 8/30/07, Gary Kirk <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> No Wikimedia project is currently ad-supported, Google or otherwise. I
>>>> believe the stance is 'never say never', but I would think the
>>>> introduction of ads would be extremely unlikely and similarly
>>>> unpopular.
>>>> Hope this helps.
>>>>
>>>> On 8/30/07, Milos Rancic <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>> I hope that a small image will pass the list.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, the question is: Does WMF have some money from such kind of Google
>>>>> commercials?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Gary Kirk
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> foundation-l mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> foundation-l mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> foundation-l mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>


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Re: Buy Wikipedia?

David Gerard-2
On 30/08/2007, Florence Devouard <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Sorry, but I really do not understand what you are talking about. Where
> would that be ?


Google adlinks, e.g. at the top of my Gmail whenever I've looked at
something about Wikipedia. They have a pile of "Related links" which
you click on, which takes you to another page of "related links" with
the word "Wikipedia" in, which takes you to ads with nothing to do
with Wikipedia. That is, Google is using the name to lure people into
clicking on the ads.

It certainly worked on me the first few times, now I'm just
increasingly annoyed by it. Thus proving even text ads have to fulfill
the promise of relevance when you click on them ...


- d.

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Re: Buy Wikipedia?

brian.mcneil-2
In reply to this post by Florence Devouard-3
The issue here can't really be progressed when all that is being provided is
a graphic of the ad banner. If people are inappropriately using the
Wikipedia name I have no doubt a nice letter will get Google to pull their
adverts - but you can't do that if you don't know what is being advertised.


Brian.

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Florence
Devouard
Sent: 30 August 2007 21:25
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Buy Wikipedia?

Sorry, but I really do not understand what you are talking about. Where
would that be ?

Ant

Milos Rancic wrote:
> Ah, sorry :) Yes, "buy", not "by"...
>
> On 8/30/07, Mike R <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Correcting spelling of "buy" in case anyone else was as confused as I
was.

>>
>> On 8/30/07, Milos Rancic <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> So, let's test a little bit Google's tolerance ;) (my site is on
>>> Google: http://www.millosh.org/by_wikipedia.png)
>>>
>>> The point is that, as you see, inside of the add ons Google has
>>> commercial "By Wikipedia". Even the most of problems related to
>>> Google's financing Wikimedia are not on the Google's side, I think
>>> that Google should give money for promoting non-Wikimedia sites for
>>> money with the phrase "By Wikipedia".
>>>
>>> On 8/30/07, Gary Kirk <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> No Wikimedia project is currently ad-supported, Google or otherwise. I
>>>> believe the stance is 'never say never', but I would think the
>>>> introduction of ads would be extremely unlikely and similarly
>>>> unpopular.
>>>> Hope this helps.
>>>>
>>>> On 8/30/07, Milos Rancic <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>> I hope that a small image will pass the list.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, the question is: Does WMF have some money from such kind of Google
>>>>> commercials?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Gary Kirk
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> foundation-l mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> foundation-l mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> foundation-l mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>


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Re: Buy Wikipedia?

Gregory Maxwell
On 8/30/07, Brian McNeil <[hidden email]> wrote:
> The issue here can't really be progressed when all that is being provided is
> a graphic of the ad banner. If people are inappropriately using the
> Wikipedia name I have no doubt a nice letter will get Google to pull their
> adverts - but you can't do that if you don't know what is being advertised.

Google ads is pretty aggressive about the trademark thing.

I used adwords to promote our last fundraiser, and they shut me off
after two days for using the "trademark term Wikipedia".  They did not
respond to my requests on what documentation I needed to provide to
ensure that I had authorization to use the mark.

Ironic that they're letting some spammer use it to link to their
site... but I bet it will be/was shut off after a day or two tops.

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Re: Buy Wikipedia?

Milos Rancic-2
In reply to this post by Florence Devouard-3
It was on http://en.qweki.com/Special:Recentchanges

This time it is at the right side... However, I am sure that any add
like this may be found on any page with key words "Wikipedia" or
"Special:Recentchanges" with the MediaWiki structure.

I uploaded my screenshot on Meta
(http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Buy_wikipedia_II_large.png).
"Ads by Google" at the right.

There are at least two problems:
- Buy Wikipedia -- Wikipedia is on sale?
- If we assume that it is about the content, then trade mark fee
should be paid by Google.

On 8/30/07, Florence Devouard <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Sorry, but I really do not understand what you are talking about. Where
> would that be ?
>
> Ant
>
> Milos Rancic wrote:
> > Ah, sorry :) Yes, "buy", not "by"...
> >
> > On 8/30/07, Mike R <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> Correcting spelling of "buy" in case anyone else was as confused as I was.
> >>
> >> On 8/30/07, Milos Rancic <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>> So, let's test a little bit Google's tolerance ;) (my site is on
> >>> Google: http://www.millosh.org/by_wikipedia.png)
> >>>
> >>> The point is that, as you see, inside of the add ons Google has
> >>> commercial "By Wikipedia". Even the most of problems related to
> >>> Google's financing Wikimedia are not on the Google's side, I think
> >>> that Google should give money for promoting non-Wikimedia sites for
> >>> money with the phrase "By Wikipedia".
> >>>
> >>> On 8/30/07, Gary Kirk <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>>> No Wikimedia project is currently ad-supported, Google or otherwise. I
> >>>> believe the stance is 'never say never', but I would think the
> >>>> introduction of ads would be extremely unlikely and similarly
> >>>> unpopular.
> >>>> Hope this helps.
> >>>>
> >>>> On 8/30/07, Milos Rancic <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>>>> I hope that a small image will pass the list.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So, the question is: Does WMF have some money from such kind of Google
> >>>>> commercials?
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Gary Kirk
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> foundation-l mailing list
> >>>> [hidden email]
> >>>> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >>>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> foundation-l mailing list
> >>> [hidden email]
> >>> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> foundation-l mailing list
> >> [hidden email]
> >> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

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Re: Buy Wikipedia?

Milos Rancic-2
In reply to this post by brian.mcneil-2
It seems that it is not about some spammer, but about Google. When you
click on that add, you are not getting "some spammer", but Google list
of sites *related* to Wikipedia.

On 8/30/07, Brian McNeil <[hidden email]> wrote:

> The issue here can't really be progressed when all that is being provided is
> a graphic of the ad banner. If people are inappropriately using the
> Wikipedia name I have no doubt a nice letter will get Google to pull their
> adverts - but you can't do that if you don't know what is being advertised.
>
>
> Brian.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Florence
> Devouard
> Sent: 30 August 2007 21:25
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Buy Wikipedia?
>
> Sorry, but I really do not understand what you are talking about. Where
> would that be ?
>
> Ant
>
> Milos Rancic wrote:
> > Ah, sorry :) Yes, "buy", not "by"...
> >
> > On 8/30/07, Mike R <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> Correcting spelling of "buy" in case anyone else was as confused as I
> was.
> >>
> >> On 8/30/07, Milos Rancic <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>> So, let's test a little bit Google's tolerance ;) (my site is on
> >>> Google: http://www.millosh.org/by_wikipedia.png)
> >>>
> >>> The point is that, as you see, inside of the add ons Google has
> >>> commercial "By Wikipedia". Even the most of problems related to
> >>> Google's financing Wikimedia are not on the Google's side, I think
> >>> that Google should give money for promoting non-Wikimedia sites for
> >>> money with the phrase "By Wikipedia".
> >>>
> >>> On 8/30/07, Gary Kirk <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>>> No Wikimedia project is currently ad-supported, Google or otherwise. I
> >>>> believe the stance is 'never say never', but I would think the
> >>>> introduction of ads would be extremely unlikely and similarly
> >>>> unpopular.
> >>>> Hope this helps.
> >>>>
> >>>> On 8/30/07, Milos Rancic <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>>>> I hope that a small image will pass the list.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So, the question is: Does WMF have some money from such kind of Google
> >>>>> commercials?
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Gary Kirk
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> foundation-l mailing list
> >>>> [hidden email]
> >>>> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >>>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> foundation-l mailing list
> >>> [hidden email]
> >>> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> foundation-l mailing list
> >> [hidden email]
> >> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

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Re: Buy Wikipedia?

Gregory Maxwell
On 8/30/07, Milos Rancic <[hidden email]> wrote:
> It seems that it is not about some spammer, but about Google. When you
> click on that add, you are not getting "some spammer", but Google list
> of sites *related* to Wikipedia.

Fair warning: While trying to reproduce this (I can't :( ) I was
hitting reload on that qweki site and on the fifth or sixth try it
send me to a whole bunch of porno popups. :(

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Re: Buy Wikipedia?

Milos Rancic-2
Take some pop-up blocker. You may see that my Firefox blocked
pop-ups... I was trying to find wiki communities to announce them Wiki
World. And by accident en.qweki.com is the MediaWiki with the biggest
amount of articles...

On 8/30/07, Gregory Maxwell <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 8/30/07, Milos Rancic <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > It seems that it is not about some spammer, but about Google. When you
> > click on that add, you are not getting "some spammer", but Google list
> > of sites *related* to Wikipedia.
>
> Fair warning: While trying to reproduce this (I can't :( ) I was
> hitting reload on that qweki site and on the fifth or sixth try it
> send me to a whole bunch of porno popups. :(
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

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Re: Buy Wikipedia?

Milos Rancic-2
On 8/30/07, Milos Rancic <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Take some pop-up blocker. You may see that my Firefox blocked
> pop-ups... I was trying to find wiki communities to announce them Wiki
> World. And by accident en.qweki.com is the MediaWiki with the biggest
> amount of articles...

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_wikis

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Re: Buy Wikipedia?

Milos Rancic-2
And here is what you get when you click on the link "Buy Wikipedia":
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:When_you_click_on_buy_wikipedia.png

On 8/30/07, Milos Rancic <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 8/30/07, Milos Rancic <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Take some pop-up blocker. You may see that my Firefox blocked
> > pop-ups... I was trying to find wiki communities to announce them Wiki
> > World. And by accident en.qweki.com is the MediaWiki with the biggest
> > amount of articles...
>
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_wikis
>

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Re: Buy Wikipedia?

Dan Rosenthal
In reply to this post by Gregory Maxwell
I see it on my first try.


Ads by Google

Personal Wikipedia
Buy Wikipedia
Download Wikipedia
Obama Wikipedia
See Wikipedia

-Dan Rosenthal
On Aug 30, 2007, at 4:03 PM, Gregory Maxwell wrote:

> On 8/30/07, Milos Rancic <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> It seems that it is not about some spammer, but about Google. When  
>> you
>> click on that add, you are not getting "some spammer", but Google  
>> list
>> of sites *related* to Wikipedia.
>
> Fair warning: While trying to reproduce this (I can't :( ) I was
> hitting reload on that qweki site and on the fifth or sixth try it
> send me to a whole bunch of porno popups. :(
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

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Re: Buy Wikipedia?

Thomas Dalton
In reply to this post by Milos Rancic-2
On 30/08/2007, Milos Rancic <[hidden email]> wrote:
> And here is what you get when you click on the link "Buy Wikipedia":
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:When_you_click_on_buy_wikipedia.png

I think "Buy XYZ" is more a suggested search query than an advert.
Google picks a keyword from the page you're viewing, and then suggests
you might want to search for places to buy it. It's pretty rubbish and
annoying, but I don't think it's anything to worry about - it's just
nonsense, really. Can nonsense be a trademark violation?

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Re: Buy Wikipedia?

Milos Rancic-2
On 8/31/07, Thomas Dalton <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I think "Buy XYZ" is more a suggested search query than an advert.
> Google picks a keyword from the page you're viewing, and then suggests
> you might want to search for places to buy it. It's pretty rubbish and
> annoying, but I don't think it's anything to worry about - it's just
> nonsense, really. Can nonsense be a trademark violation?

The problem is that it is a nonsense if you read it literary. However,
it is *not* a nonsense if you are reading this in the sense of buying
Wikipedia content (which is a common sense of, for example, "buy
Wikipedia"; cf. "buy Linux"). At least, Google should exclude
Wikipedia from its common commercial add ons: "buy Wikipedia", "trade
Wikipedia" and similar. Anyone who wants to make money on
Wikipedia(tm) should pay for (tm) at least in USA.

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Re: Buy Wikipedia?

Milos Rancic-2
And, BTW and AFAIK, trademark expires if the owner has no objections
on trademark usage (at least, I heard something like that about the
Linux trademark which is owned by Linus Torvalds).

On 8/31/07, Milos Rancic <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 8/31/07, Thomas Dalton <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > I think "Buy XYZ" is more a suggested search query than an advert.
> > Google picks a keyword from the page you're viewing, and then suggests
> > you might want to search for places to buy it. It's pretty rubbish and
> > annoying, but I don't think it's anything to worry about - it's just
> > nonsense, really. Can nonsense be a trademark violation?
>
> The problem is that it is a nonsense if you read it literary. However,
> it is *not* a nonsense if you are reading this in the sense of buying
> Wikipedia content (which is a common sense of, for example, "buy
> Wikipedia"; cf. "buy Linux"). At least, Google should exclude
> Wikipedia from its common commercial add ons: "buy Wikipedia", "trade
> Wikipedia" and similar. Anyone who wants to make money on
> Wikipedia(tm) should pay for (tm) at least in USA.
>

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Re: Buy Wikipedia?

Thomas Dalton
In reply to this post by Milos Rancic-2
> The problem is that it is a nonsense if you read it literary. However,
> it is *not* a nonsense if you are reading this in the sense of buying
> Wikipedia content (which is a common sense of, for example, "buy
> Wikipedia"; cf. "buy Linux"). At least, Google should exclude
> Wikipedia from its common commercial add ons: "buy Wikipedia", "trade
> Wikipedia" and similar. Anyone who wants to make money on
> Wikipedia(tm) should pay for (tm) at least in USA.

Is anyone making money of it? Do you have to pay to be on the "Buy
XYZ" results? And do any of the results actually sell anything to do
with Wikipedia, or look like they do?

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Re: Buy Wikipedia?

Milos Rancic-2
On 8/31/07, Thomas Dalton <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Is anyone making money of it? Do you have to pay to be on the "Buy
> XYZ" results? And do any of the results actually sell anything to do
> with Wikipedia, or look like they do?

One of the results offered download of Wikipedia for download (and I
am almost sure that they had add ons, but I may not guarantee). Making
money doesn't mean exclusively that you should pay for something...

However, it seems that people from Google are fast and there is no
"buy Wikipedia" on Qweki recent changes anymore even Qweki was not
changed). There is, however, "Wikipedia in English" link which takes
to the nonsense list like this one is [1], including the link to the
site like this one is [2].

The last one, as well as the first case is misleading public which
makes implicit harm on Wikipedia and other Wikimedia sites. And,
AFAIK, from 1950s there is legislation against such misleading.

Again, both of them: Google and its clients are making money via such
links. If they are using WMF trademarks for making money, they should
pay to WMF for that (if it is not, at least, misleading, which is
unacceptable).

1) http://pagead2.googlesyndication.com/pagead/ads?client=ca-pub-8393203815404720&dt=1188519887464&lmt=1188519879&format=fp_al_lp&output=html&correlator=1188519887463&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.qweki.com%2FSpecial%3ARecentchanges&ga_vid=226215556.1188484226&ga_sid=1188519855&ga_hid=698464946&ga_fc=true&flash=9&u_h=800&u_w=1280&u_ah=800&u_aw=1253&u_cd=24&u_tz=120&u_his=1&u_java=true&u_nplug=3&u_nmime=36&kw_type=radlink&prev_fmts=728x15_0ads_al_s&rt=ChBG118rAAevzwpeNgfUVmLiEhRXaWtpcGVkaWEgaW4gRW5nbGlzaBoIkGz3IBluBREgsKvQDygBSLCr0A8&hl=en&kw0=Wiki&kw1=Wikipedia+in+English&kw2=XSL+XML&kw3=XML+Editor&kw4=XML+Hacking&okw=Wikipedia+in+English)
2) http://micronutra.com/candidol.html?utm_campaign=Candidol&utm_source=google_s&aw_JP20070201&utm_medium=ppc&utm_term=medicine%20encyclopedia&ovchn=GGL&ovcpn=Candidol&ovcrn=sr2cd14go739CX1pi1ai62+medicine+encyclopedia&ovtac=PPC&SR=sr2cd14go739CX1pi1ai62

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