Re: Communications issues

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Re: Communications issues

Michael Snow
Gatto Nero wrote:

> 2007/1/3, Michael Snow <[hidden email]>:
>
>> Part of the problem is a lack of resources, both human and technical, in
>> the communications area as much as in any other. That sort of thing is,
>> of course, exactly what this fundraiser is trying to address.
>
> I'm sorry, 'cause of language differences maybe I've not understood:
> are you saying that "lack of resources" is one of the reasons why are
> we collecting money?

Yes.

> This means, "people needs to be payed"? (I'm asking, 'cause I'm not
> sure, that's not an accusation)

See "human and technical" above. There's a need for servers, and there's
a need to hire staff to do the things that volunteers can't, won't, or
aren't trained to do.

> In the recent past, I remember a user answering to me and other
> italians "Communities doesn't matter. Funding does. Capisce?".
> How does this phrase should be interpreted?
> Let's think about a new user who's starting to communicate with the
> Foundation, and he's been answered in this way.
> Obviously, I don't think this is an isolated case.

I don't know who said it or how it was intended to be interpreted. At
face value, it's certainly not an appropriate expression of the
Foundation's position. However, I'm surprised that you would take a
random comment like this, that sounds like it was made on IRC, as an
authoritative statement. A "new user" who wants to "communicate with the
Foundation" is looking in entirely the wrong place there, and I'm not
sure how a truly new user would receive such an answer (as opposed to
someone used to getting information passed by word of mouth in a chat
room). As I mentioned with regard to OTRS, good customer service skills
are expected, and we do work with new volunteers so they understand not
to give such inappropriate responses.

> As far as I remember, I have no memories at all of reading a
> communication "signed" by the CommComm. Better: I have no memories at
> all of reading a communicaton about Foundation's issues or problem.

The former may not be surprising, although there have been some (like
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/htdig/foundation-l/2006-June/007393.html).
In part, the Communications Committee has been involved in coordinating
messages that do not necessarily come with its "signature", like the
material surrounding the closure of the French Wikiquote. Meanwhile, if
you've been subscribed to this list, and truly have no memory of reading
communications about the Foundation's issues, I really can't help you
with that.

> Why has there not been a periodical mail/message/zine/whatever
> summarizing what's going the Foundation?

Lack of time, attention, and resources. Anyone who wants to try to
resurrect the Wikimedia Quarto or do something similar is welcome to.
There have been lots of suggestions about things Wikimedia could be
doing, many of them useful, both as to communications and other issues.
These are nice, but simply adding more tasks to an already overloaded
to-do list doesn't produce a lot of progress. That's why we're asking
for help. We need more people like Improv or BirgitteSB, who are willing
to take a good idea and implement it. Ideas are cheap compared to action.

--Michael Snow
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Re: Communications issues

David Gerard-2
On 03/01/07, Michael Snow <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Lack of time, attention, and resources. Anyone who wants to try to
> resurrect the Wikimedia Quarto or do something similar is welcome to.
> There have been lots of suggestions about things Wikimedia could be
> doing, many of them useful, both as to communications and other issues.
> These are nice, but simply adding more tasks to an already overloaded
> to-do list doesn't produce a lot of progress. That's why we're asking
> for help. We need more people like Improv or BirgitteSB, who are willing
> to take a good idea and implement it. Ideas are cheap compared to action.


A mailing list for the weekly digests might be good.


- d.
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Re: Communications issues

Andrew Gray
In reply to this post by Michael Snow
On 03/01/07, Michael Snow <[hidden email]> wrote:

> > In the recent past, I remember a user answering to me and other
> > italians "Communities doesn't matter. Funding does. Capisce?".
> > How does this phrase should be interpreted?
> > Let's think about a new user who's starting to communicate with the
> > Foundation, and he's been answered in this way.
> > Obviously, I don't think this is an isolated case.
>
> I don't know who said it or how it was intended to be interpreted. At
> face value, it's certainly not an appropriate expression of the
> Foundation's position. However, I'm surprised that you would take a
> random comment like this, that sounds like it was made on IRC, as an
> authoritative statement.

It was indeed made on IRC, if my memory serves, during an extensive
multisided argument in #wikimedia which had been going on for an hour
or two. Can't quite remember who said it, but it was one comment among
many and it certainly wasn't The Foundation Line...

--
- Andrew Gray
  [hidden email]
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Re: Communications issues

Gatto Nero
In reply to this post by Michael Snow
2007/1/3, Michael Snow <[hidden email]>:

> > I'm sorry, 'cause of language differences maybe I've not understood:
> > are you saying that "lack of resources" is one of the reasons why are
> > we collecting money?
>
> Yes.
>
> > This means, "people needs to be payed"? (I'm asking, 'cause I'm not
> > sure, that's not an accusation)
>
> See "human and technical" above. There's a need for servers, and there's
> a need to hire staff to do the things that volunteers can't, won't, or
> aren't trained to do.

Oh My God.
Question: who is *not* going to be payed?
Only editors? (The ones that made wiki so big)

>
> > In the recent past, I remember a user answering to me and other
> > italians "Communities doesn't matter. Funding does. Capisce?".
> > How does this phrase should be interpreted?
> > Let's think about a new user who's starting to communicate with the
> > Foundation, and he's been answered in this way.
> > Obviously, I don't think this is an isolated case.
>
> I don't know who said it or how it was intended to be interpreted. At
> face value, it's certainly not an appropriate expression of the
> Foundation's position. However, I'm surprised that you would take a
> random comment like this, that sounds like it was made on IRC, as an
> authoritative statement. A "new user" who wants to "communicate with the
> Foundation" is looking in entirely the wrong place there, and I'm not
> sure how a truly new user would receive such an answer (as opposed to
> someone used to getting information passed by word of mouth in a chat
> room). As I mentioned with regard to OTRS, good customer service skills
> are expected, and we do work with new volunteers so they understand not
> to give such inappropriate responses.

I'll respond to this in another mail, cause it's a little more
complicated than how you draw it.

> ...if
> you've been subscribed to this list, and truly have no memory of reading
> communications about the Foundation's issues, I really can't help you
> with that.

Maybe you can't help me, but you should be worried about it.
"Receiving" is one of the most important element of the communication.
It *is* the most important element.
A communication which's not received, is a communication which has
failed. If theres' no receveing, there's no communication. There's one
of the first things learned by a communicator.
What you should do is wondering "Why has he not memories of CommComm
comunication at all?"

> Ideas are cheap compared to action.

Oh, ok. I'm cheap.

Speaking seriously: it's funny.
I made a long intervention explaining why perception is important in
communication (and that's why we should not have had advertising on
wiki), but noone seemed to have read it.
Communication, withous receveing.
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