Re: Durova's real name

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
46 messages Options
123
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Fwd: Durova's real name

Matthew Brown-5
On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 1:04 PM,  <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I don't think I disagreed with that assessment, but in general we do not
> handle that by an indef.
>
> The specific reason for the indef was mentioning Durova's real name, and
> thus that is the sole issue I brought, so we could discuss it.  The entire
> year-long history muddies the waters and we cannot focus on the one issue in  which
> I was interested.

I suspect, though, even if not specifically stated, the history of
behavior was part of the reasoning behind the decision on that block
length.

-Matt

_______________________________________________
WikiEN-l mailing list
[hidden email]
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Fwd: Durova's real name

WJhonson
In reply to this post by WJhonson
 
In a message dated 5/21/2008 1:13:09 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
[hidden email] writes:

I  suspect, though, even if not specifically stated, the history of
behavior  was part of the reasoning behind the decision on that  block
length.>>


------
Indef does not mean "forever" and it does not mean "one second".  It  merely
means "unspecified".
 
The specified condition being that the user forbear from mentioning  Durova's
real name in-wiki again.
 
The long history probably has more to do with Eleemosynary's intransigence  
in the face of a long bitter conflict, then it does with FT2's action to block  
indef.  But all of that aside, the forward goal should be to diffuse the  
situation and bring Elee back into the project, imho.
 
Eleemosynary, while in this particular conflict being perhaps prinkly, is,  
in general, a very useful part of the project.
 
Will Johnson



**************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with
Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.      
(http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002)
_______________________________________________
WikiEN-l mailing list
[hidden email]
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Fwd: Durova's real name

George William Herbert
On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 1:29 PM,  <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Indef does not mean "forever" and it does not mean "one second".  It  merely
> means "unspecified".
>
> The specified condition being that the user forbear from mentioning  Durova's
> real name in-wiki again.

Yes, agreed.

> The long history probably has more to do with Eleemosynary's intransigence
> in the face of a long bitter conflict, then it does with FT2's action to block
> indef.  But all of that aside, the forward goal should be to diffuse the
> situation and bring Elee back into the project, imho.
>
> Eleemosynary, while in this particular conflict being perhaps prinkly, is,
> in general, a very useful part of the project.

I agree with that goal and focus.  But given our sensitivity to
identity, privacy, and related stalking problems that our experienced
users and admins have seen, even longtime contributors have to be
aware that issues like this have low tolerance for abuse.

Trying to get support for a policy exception for not identifying
people who don't want to be identified, just because somewhere out
there in the world is info (that they put out there or not) that
connects the dots, *just* for this one case to avoid an indef on a
problematic if positive contributor, is a mistake.

That's not the policy to be poking holes in willy-nilly.

Working with Elee offline to impress upon them the reasons for the
policy and get them to agree to abide by it, even if they disagree or
feel they were unfairly treated, is the appropriate way forwards.


--
-george william herbert
[hidden email]

_______________________________________________
WikiEN-l mailing list
[hidden email]
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Fwd: Durova's real name

David Gerard-2
2008/5/22 George Herbert <[hidden email]>:

> Working with Elee offline to impress upon them the reasons for the
> policy and get them to agree to abide by it, even if they disagree or
> feel they were unfairly treated, is the appropriate way forwards.


Indeed. And it's not like (a) good contributors who have problems with
others don't get ridiculous amounts of leeway already (b) we're that
hard up for contributors that we have to leave apparently incurable
dicks on here. If Elee is that good to have around, they can learn to
behave accordingly.


- d.

_______________________________________________
WikiEN-l mailing list
[hidden email]
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Fwd: Durova's real name

WJhonson
In reply to this post by WJhonson
 
In a message dated 5/21/2008 4:25:30 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
[hidden email] writes:

Trying  to get support for a policy exception for not identifying
people who don't  want to be identified, just because somewhere out
there in the world is  info (that they put out there or not) that
connects the dots, *just* for  this one case to avoid an indef on a
problematic if positive contributor,  is a mistake.>>


-------------------------
 
And no one has *advocated* for such a position.
I questioned the situation, that is all.
 
"Durova, in an interview, posted on YouTube, states her own real full   name.
The identification of Durova, is now strewn widely across the   internet.
Can we not repeat her own real full name in-Wiki ?"
 
Now the one mistake I made was that she doesn't actually self-identify as  
both parts.  It is the person who loaded the video who marked it, in it's  
headline, with the two names jointly.
 
Couldn't she simply complain to YouTube to take it down?
(This is a QUESTION, not advocacy ;)))
Will Johnson



**************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with
Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.      
(http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002)
_______________________________________________
WikiEN-l mailing list
[hidden email]
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Fwd: Durova's real name

Daniel R. Tobias
In reply to this post by WJhonson
On Thu, 22 May 2008 15:12:12 EDT, WJhonson@{gag,vomit,retch}aol.com
wrote:

> "Durova, in an interview, posted on YouTube, states her own real full   name.
> The identification of Durova, is now strewn widely across the   internet.
> Can we not repeat her own real full name in-Wiki ?"
>  
> Now the one mistake I made was that she doesn't actually self-identify as  
> both parts.  It is the person who loaded the video who marked it, in it's  
> headline, with the two names jointly.

Actually, from what I saw, the interviewer who talked with Durova and
created the video of it introduced her with both her real name and
her username, with her present and cooperating, not looking like she
was "ambush-interviewed" and objected to the whole thing.  I suppose
it could have been cut and dubbed in a misleading manner, but I see
no evidence of it.

Calling somebody by a different name from the one they wish to be
called by can be considered an act of incivility, and might be part
of a larger pattern of such behavior that could be legitimate cause
for sanctions, but if the subject has willingly cooperated in outside
interviews in which this information is disclosed, mentioning it
onwiki is hardly an act of great evil justifying a moral panic
("Outing! Stalking! Harassing! Indef-ban them and call the cops!").

--
== Dan ==
Dan's Mail Format Site: http://mailformat.dan.info/
Dan's Web Tips: http://webtips.dan.info/
Dan's Domain Site: http://domains.dan.info/



_______________________________________________
WikiEN-l mailing list
[hidden email]
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
123