Re: Googley comments

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Re: Googley comments

WJhonson
I just today noticed a new interesting thing while doing a Google  search.  
Under each result there is a cloud looking thing and if you hover  it it
says "Comment".  So I tried it.
 
Would someone else try this Google search
    "arsenic and old lace" youtube
 
Just like that with the quotes and all.  On the first few hits you  should
see a result
   
_YouTube - Arsenic  And Old Lace 1/15 (1944)_
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6YzAfyIeAA)
 
Would you see if you can see a comment I left there?
I'm curious how this works.
 
To make this thread on-topic, I wonder if there would be any  advantage is
allowing comments, separate from Talk Page comments, on our  articles?
I notice that many casual readers will leave "comments" which you  can
generally spot as they are not-tagged-with-a-sig and generally left at the  top
of the Talk page without regard for headers and so on.
 
I just wonder if a more free-form "comment" section would encourage  more
casual readers to become casual writers.
 
Will Johnson
 
P.S. The only reason I picked this particular movie was because I  was
casually looking for more movies to add to my
_Click  here to see the entire list of Peter Lorre Movies on YouTube_
(http://knol.google.com/k/will-johnson/peter-lorre-movies-on-youtube/4hmquk6fx4gu/
299)
and
_Click  here to see the entire list of Cary Grant Movies on YouTube_
(http://knol.google.com/k/will-johnson/cary-grant-movies-on-youtube/4hmquk6fx4gu/18
8)
 
Although obviously people are *watching* my nightly selections,  they don't
seem to be adding any comments ;)
Maybe I'm perfect after all!
 
 
 

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Re: Googley comments

Nathan Awrich
Nope, no comments shown. If you click on the "See all notes for this
SearchWiki" button below the results, it says no public notes have
been made for the search results for ["arsenic and old lace" youtube].

What's a SearchWiki?

Nathan

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Re: Googley comments

David Gerard-2
In reply to this post by WJhonson
2009/9/2  <[hidden email]>:

> To make this thread on-topic, I wonder if there would be any  advantage is
> allowing comments, separate from Talk Page comments, on our  articles?
> I notice that many casual readers will leave "comments" which you  can
> generally spot as they are not-tagged-with-a-sig and generally left at the  top
> of the Talk page without regard for headers and so on.
> I just wonder if a more free-form "comment" section would encourage  more
> casual readers to become casual writers.


Yes. Wikinews does this - they have a "collaboration" page for editors
working on the article, but a "comment" page specifically for readers
to spout forth. Would be good.


- d.

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Re: Googley comments

Luna-4
In reply to this post by WJhonson
On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 12:01 PM, <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I just today noticed a new interesting thing while doing a Google  search.
> Under each result there is a cloud looking thing and if you hover  it it
> says "Comment".  So I tried it.
>

In the Google search settings page, I followed a "learn more" link about
SearchWiki, which took me here:
http://www.google.com/support/websearch/bin/answer.py?answer=115764

Looks like any comments/promotions/rankings you make are stored for your own
use -- the documentation on the help page seems to suggest that this
information is private (in the sense that it's only viewed by you on your
own searches, if not necessarily as a matter of policy), but I notice the
button to submit a comment is labelled "Make a public comment"; confusing!

-Luna
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Re: Googley comments

Emily Monroe
> I notice the button to submit a comment is labelled "Make a public  
> comment"; confusing!

Maybe what they mean is "Make a comment, generic member of the public."

Emily
On Sep 2, 2009, at 5:34 PM, Luna wrote:

> On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 12:01 PM, <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I just today noticed a new interesting thing while doing a Google  
>> search.
>> Under each result there is a cloud looking thing and if you hover  
>> it it
>> says "Comment".  So I tried it.
>>
>
> In the Google search settings page, I followed a "learn more" link  
> about
> SearchWiki, which took me here:
> http://www.google.com/support/websearch/bin/answer.py?answer=115764
>
> Looks like any comments/promotions/rankings you make are stored for  
> your own
> use -- the documentation on the help page seems to suggest that this
> information is private (in the sense that it's only viewed by you on  
> your
> own searches, if not necessarily as a matter of policy), but I  
> notice the
> button to submit a comment is labelled "Make a public comment";  
> confusing!
>
> -Luna
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l


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Re: Googley comments

Steve Bennett-8
In reply to this post by David Gerard-2
On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 6:07 AM, David Gerard<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Yes. Wikinews does this - they have a "collaboration" page for editors
> working on the article, but a "comment" page specifically for readers
> to spout forth. Would be good.

Yes, there's no good reason we should subject casual commenters to the
horrors of wikitext. If they can even figure out that in order to
comment they have to click a tiny little link marked "Discussion" (at
the top of the page, not the bottom where every other site does it),
then another tiny little link marked "Edit this page" or "New
section".

Simple suggestion: A big green button at the bottom of every page
marked "Comment on this page" which creates a new section on the
discussion page.

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Re: Googley comments

WJhonson
I think I like "Comment on this page" at the bottom, but I'm hesitant
to endorse that creating a section on the discussion (Talk) page.  I
have a reason for my hesitation.

Sometimes readers comments on say "Patty Hearst" might be something
like "Oh I remember when this occurred, I was in the seventh grade and
had to do a report on her..."

Now something like that is an interesting way for casual readers to
spout off, but on a patrolled-article, comments of that sort get
routinely purged as they don't really help us to improve the article.  
As a casual reader on OPB (other people's blogs) I get annoyed if my
comment gets wiped or never appears.

I wouldn't be adverse to moderated comments so we don't get "lick my
ass!" and things like that.

At any rate, anyone want to bring this to the general wiki community
somewhere and gauge the reaction?

Will



-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Bennett <[hidden email]>
To: English Wikipedia <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wed, Sep 2, 2009 6:58 pm
Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Googley comments




On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 6:07 AM, David Gerard<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Yes. Wikinews does this - they have a "collaboration" page for editors
> working on the article, but a "comment" page specifically for readers
> to spout forth. Would be good.

Yes, there's no good reason we should subject casual commenters to the
horrors of wikitext. If they can even figure out that in order to
comment they have to click a tiny little link marked "Discussion" (at
the top of the page, not the bottom where every other site does it),
then another tiny little link marked "Edit this page" or "New
section".

Simple suggestion: A big green button at the bottom of every page
marked "Comment on this page" which creates a new section on the
discussion page.

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Re: Googley comments

Emily Monroe
In reply to this post by Steve Bennett-8
> Simple suggestion: A big green button at the bottom of every page  
> marked "Comment on this page" which creates a new section on the  
> discussion page.

Good idea, but we would get dozens of "OMG I LUV THIS PERSUN!!!!!11!!!".

Emily
On Sep 2, 2009, at 8:58 PM, Steve Bennett wrote:

> On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 6:07 AM, David Gerard<[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Yes. Wikinews does this - they have a "collaboration" page for  
>> editors
>> working on the article, but a "comment" page specifically for readers
>> to spout forth. Would be good.
>
> Yes, there's no good reason we should subject casual commenters to the
> horrors of wikitext. If they can even figure out that in order to
> comment they have to click a tiny little link marked "Discussion" (at
> the top of the page, not the bottom where every other site does it),
> then another tiny little link marked "Edit this page" or "New
> section".
>
> Simple suggestion: A big green button at the bottom of every page
> marked "Comment on this page" which creates a new section on the
> discussion page.
>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l


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Re: Googley comments

Emily Monroe
In reply to this post by WJhonson
> As a casual reader on OPB (other people's blogs) I get annoyed if my  
> comment gets wiped or never appears.

Yeah, but see, the thing is, you don't "own" the blog. The person  
writing it does (well, technically, the blog hosting service does).  
They have the right to not have a comment show up. We could use the  
same argument on Wikipedia.

Emily
On Sep 2, 2009, at 11:39 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

> I think I like "Comment on this page" at the bottom, but I'm hesitant
> to endorse that creating a section on the discussion (Talk) page.  I
> have a reason for my hesitation.
>
> Sometimes readers comments on say "Patty Hearst" might be something
> like "Oh I remember when this occurred, I was in the seventh grade and
> had to do a report on her..."
>
> Now something like that is an interesting way for casual readers to
> spout off, but on a patrolled-article, comments of that sort get
> routinely purged as they don't really help us to improve the article.
> As a casual reader on OPB (other people's blogs) I get annoyed if my
> comment gets wiped or never appears.
>
> I wouldn't be adverse to moderated comments so we don't get "lick my
> ass!" and things like that.
>
> At any rate, anyone want to bring this to the general wiki community
> somewhere and gauge the reaction?
>
> Will
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steve Bennett <[hidden email]>
> To: English Wikipedia <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Wed, Sep 2, 2009 6:58 pm
> Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Googley comments
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 6:07 AM, David Gerard<[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Yes. Wikinews does this - they have a "collaboration" page for  
>> editors
>> working on the article, but a "comment" page specifically for readers
>> to spout forth. Would be good.
>
> Yes, there's no good reason we should subject casual commenters to the
> horrors of wikitext. If they can even figure out that in order to
> comment they have to click a tiny little link marked "Discussion" (at
> the top of the page, not the bottom where every other site does it),
> then another tiny little link marked "Edit this page" or "New
> section".
>
> Simple suggestion: A big green button at the bottom of every page
> marked "Comment on this page" which creates a new section on the
> discussion page.
>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l


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Re: Googley comments

Al Tally
In reply to this post by Emily Monroe
On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 3:18 PM, Emily Monroe <[hidden email]> wrote:

> > Simple suggestion: A big green button at the bottom of every page
> > marked "Comment on this page" which creates a new section on the
> > discussion page.
>
> Good idea, but we would get dozens of "OMG I LUV THIS PERSUN!!!!!11!!!".
>
> Emily
>

Or worse, "THIS PERSON IS A DIRTY PEDO!!!!1!!" (or something as bad). Could
be problematic for BLPs.

--
Alex
(User:Majorly)
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Re: Googley comments

WJhonson
In reply to this post by WJhonson
In a message dated 9/3/2009 7:21:35 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[hidden email] writes:


> Yeah, but see, the thing is, you don't "own" the blog. The person  
> writing it does (well, technically, the blog hosting service does).  
> They have the right to not have a comment show up. We could use the  
> same argument on Wikipedia.>>

---------------
What?  That Wikipedia puts a "comment on this article" and someone says "I
love this person" and "we" or at least someone decides that fan mail is not
something we want ?

I suppose there would need to be a guideline started to decide what sorts
of things are OK for comments.

Will

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Re: Googley comments

WJhonson
In reply to this post by WJhonson
In a message dated 9/3/2009 7:24:33 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
[hidden email] writes:


> Or worse, "THIS PERSON IS A DIRTY PEDO!!!!1!!" (or something as bad).
> Could
> be problematic for BLPs.>>

----------------------

We already get that.  So this wouldn't change that issue.

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Re: Googley comments

Emily Monroe
In reply to this post by WJhonson
> I suppose there would need to be a guideline started to decide what  
> sorts of things are OK for comments.

I thought we were talking about how to make the talk page more  
accessible...

Emily
On Sep 3, 2009, at 1:19 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

> In a message dated 9/3/2009 7:21:35 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> [hidden email] writes:
>
>
>> Yeah, but see, the thing is, you don't "own" the blog. The person
>> writing it does (well, technically, the blog hosting service does).
>> They have the right to not have a comment show up. We could use the
>> same argument on Wikipedia.>>
>
> ---------------
> What?  That Wikipedia puts a "comment on this article" and someone  
> says "I
> love this person" and "we" or at least someone decides that fan mail  
> is not
> something we want ?
>
> I suppose there would need to be a guideline started to decide what  
> sorts
> of things are OK for comments.
>
> Will
>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l


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Re: Googley comments

Al Tally
In reply to this post by WJhonson
On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 7:19 PM, <[hidden email]> wrote:

> In a message dated 9/3/2009 7:24:33 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> [hidden email] writes:
>
>
> > Or worse, "THIS PERSON IS A DIRTY PEDO!!!!1!!" (or something as bad).
> > Could
> > be problematic for BLPs.>>
>
> ----------------------
>
> We already get that.  So this wouldn't change that issue.
>

It's blatantly encouraging it though.

--
Alex
(User:Majorly)
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Re: Googley comments

WJhonson
In reply to this post by Emily Monroe
No that was someone's idea, but not mine.
I like having the "Make a Comment" button at the bottom of each
article, as this would mimic what readers are used to seeing at other
sites.
I don't that this would create a seperate section on the Talk page
however, as I think this would clutter the Talk page with a lot of
casual comments.
When you read the comments on say a YouTube video, you get a lot of
one-liners and people talking back and forth and so on.
I don't see this as a way to improve the article, only a way to allow
casual readers to make comments.
It seems like just that possibly more-friendly approach might bring
people into the project as editors as well.
I'm not sure it would, it's a trial balloon.

Will





-----Original Message-----
From: Emily Monroe <[hidden email]>
To: English Wikipedia <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:20 am
Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Googley comments





> I suppose there would need to be a guideline started to decide what
> sorts of things are OK for comments.

I thought we were talking about how to make the talk page more
accessible...

Emily
On Sep 3, 2009, at 1:19 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

> In a message dated 9/3/2009 7:21:35 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> [hidden email] writes:
>
>
>> Yeah, but see, the thing is, you don't "own" the blog. The person
>> writing it does (well, technically, the blog hosting service does).
>> They have the right to not have a comment show up. We could use the
>> same argument on Wikipedia.>>
>
> ---------------
> What?  That Wikipedia puts a "comment on this article" and someone
> says "I
> love this person" and "we" or at least someone decides that fan mail
> is not
> something we want ?
>
> I suppose there would need to be a guideline started to decide what
> sorts
> of things are OK for comments.
>
> Will
>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l


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Re: Googley comments

Emily Monroe
> I don't see this as a way to improve the article, only a way to  
> allow casual readers to make comments.

THANK YOU for the clarification!

Emily

On Sep 3, 2009, at 5:04 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

> No that was someone's idea, but not mine.
> I like having the "Make a Comment" button at the bottom of each
> article, as this would mimic what readers are used to seeing at other
> sites.
> I don't that this would create a seperate section on the Talk page
> however, as I think this would clutter the Talk page with a lot of
> casual comments.
> When you read the comments on say a YouTube video, you get a lot of
> one-liners and people talking back and forth and so on.
> I don't see this as a way to improve the article, only a way to allow
> casual readers to make comments.
> It seems like just that possibly more-friendly approach might bring
> people into the project as editors as well.
> I'm not sure it would, it's a trial balloon.
>
> Will
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Emily Monroe <[hidden email]>
> To: English Wikipedia <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:20 am
> Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Googley comments
>
>
>
>
>
>> I suppose there would need to be a guideline started to decide what
>> sorts of things are OK for comments.
>
> I thought we were talking about how to make the talk page more
> accessible...
>
> Emily
> On Sep 3, 2009, at 1:19 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
>
>> In a message dated 9/3/2009 7:21:35 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
>> [hidden email] writes:
>>
>>
>>> Yeah, but see, the thing is, you don't "own" the blog. The person
>>> writing it does (well, technically, the blog hosting service does).
>>> They have the right to not have a comment show up. We could use the
>>> same argument on Wikipedia.>>
>>
>> ---------------
>> What?  That Wikipedia puts a "comment on this article" and someone
>> says "I
>> love this person" and "we" or at least someone decides that fan mail
>> is not
>> something we want ?
>>
>> I suppose there would need to be a guideline started to decide what
>> sorts
>> of things are OK for comments.
>>
>> Will
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> WikiEN-l mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
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> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
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Re: Googley comments

David Gerard-2
2009/9/3 Emily Monroe <[hidden email]>:

>> I don't see this as a way to improve the article, only a way to
>> allow casual readers to make comments.

> THANK YOU for the clarification!


It is, of course, *also* a good way to get input from people
frightened by the idea of editing for whatever reason.

I think the Wikinews version is just another page of wikitext. Is
there a friendlier version we could ask to be deployed? (allowing for
on-wiki consensus &c.) I'm not sure if LiquidThreads is top-10-ready.


- d.

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Re: Googley comments

David Gerard-2
In reply to this post by Al Tally
2009/9/3 Al Tally <[hidden email]>:
> On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 7:19 PM, <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> In a message dated 9/3/2009 7:24:33 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
>> [hidden email] writes:

>> > Or worse, "THIS PERSON IS A DIRTY PEDO!!!!1!!" (or something as bad).
>> > Could
>> > be problematic for BLPs.>>

>> We already get that.  So this wouldn't change that issue.

> It's blatantly encouraging it though.


How does Wikinews cope? Would be useful to know.

Y'know, we have pretty much no facillities *just for the reader*. This
would be good to engage people. Would need an eye kept on it, as you
note.


- d.

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Re: Googley comments

Emily Monroe
In reply to this post by WJhonson
> I like having the "Make a Comment" button at the bottom of each  
> article, as this would mimic what readers are used to seeing at  
> other sites.

Maybe the "Make a Comment" button can link to a page that has check  
boxes that have both positive (Fun to read, easy to understand,  
accurate) and negative (Boring, hard to understand, inaccurate) words  
beside them, then have a text box at the bottom saying "Any other  
comments?". We would get a lot of kids who would, of course, do the  
whole "dirty pedo" thing in the text box, check off all the words,  
etc. At least then, it doesn't end up in the article.

But then, who would read the comments?

Emily
On Sep 3, 2009, at 5:04 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

> No that was someone's idea, but not mine.
> I like having the "Make a Comment" button at the bottom of each
> article, as this would mimic what readers are used to seeing at other
> sites.
> I don't that this would create a seperate section on the Talk page
> however, as I think this would clutter the Talk page with a lot of
> casual comments.
> When you read the comments on say a YouTube video, you get a lot of
> one-liners and people talking back and forth and so on.
> I don't see this as a way to improve the article, only a way to allow
> casual readers to make comments.
> It seems like just that possibly more-friendly approach might bring
> people into the project as editors as well.
> I'm not sure it would, it's a trial balloon.
>
> Will
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Emily Monroe <[hidden email]>
> To: English Wikipedia <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Thu, Sep 3, 2009 11:20 am
> Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Googley comments
>
>
>
>
>
>> I suppose there would need to be a guideline started to decide what
>> sorts of things are OK for comments.
>
> I thought we were talking about how to make the talk page more
> accessible...
>
> Emily
> On Sep 3, 2009, at 1:19 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
>
>> In a message dated 9/3/2009 7:21:35 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
>> [hidden email] writes:
>>
>>
>>> Yeah, but see, the thing is, you don't "own" the blog. The person
>>> writing it does (well, technically, the blog hosting service does).
>>> They have the right to not have a comment show up. We could use the
>>> same argument on Wikipedia.>>
>>
>> ---------------
>> What?  That Wikipedia puts a "comment on this article" and someone
>> says "I
>> love this person" and "we" or at least someone decides that fan mail
>> is not
>> something we want ?
>>
>> I suppose there would need to be a guideline started to decide what
>> sorts
>> of things are OK for comments.
>>
>> Will
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>
>
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Re: Googley comments

Carcharoth
In reply to this post by David Gerard-2
On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 12:06 AM, David Gerard<[hidden email]> wrote:

<snip>

> Y'know, we have pretty much no facillities *just for the reader*.

I thought they had things called articles they could read? :-)

Seriously, some of the better portals are hard for readers to find.
And I'm not sure how far some readers go beyond the articles they are
reading. Page views are about the only clue there. It would be nice if
the usability people found out this sort of thing, or if there were
stats revealing the most popular *routes* taken by people, from say, a
place like the main page. But I think that requires things like
cookies and privacy concerns might weigh against such things, though
if some readers could be persuaded to have their browsing session
"recorded", that would be very interesting.

I was very pleased to see the "Featured content portal" feature very
highly on one of the recent page view listings.

Carcharoth

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