Re: 今週あなたを幸せにするものは何ですか? / What's making you happy this week? (Week of 16 June 2019)

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Re: 今週あなたを幸せにするものは何ですか? / What's making you happy this week? (Week of 16 June 2019)

Andre Klapper-2
On Wed, 2019-06-19 at 07:17 +0000, Pine W wrote:
> While browsing Japanese Wikipedia, I found this

As "What's making you happy this week" messages seem to contain no
questions, no expected interaction or followup on specific technical
topics, no announcements about specific technical topics, and often no
connection to the technical scope of wikitech-l@ (in the previous
message, 1 out of 4 items covered a technical aspect), but seem to be a
random link list of collected personal interest items:
Has it been considered to post such messages to a personal blog (or
such) instead, which might be a more suitable venue?

andre
--
Andre Klapper | Bugwrangler / Developer Advocate
https://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/



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Re: 今週あなたを幸せにするものは何ですか? / What's making you happy this week? (Week of 16 June 2019)

Pine W
Hi Andre,

I think that whether these threads are welcome by Wikitech-l subscribers in
general is a reasonable question, although I disagree with a number of
elements of your description of these threads. I took a somewhat bold step
in February 2018 of expanding the posting of these threads from Wikimedia-l
to both Wikimedia-l and Wikitech-l, and I expressed a willingness to listen
to objections; see
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2018-February/089495.html.
At that time, no one objected.

Of the occasional feedback that I have received in public (more on
Wikimedia-l than Wikitech-l) and private, 100% has been positive until now.
However, I recognize that people's opinions may change over time. If a
consensus emerges from Wikitech-l subscribers that these threads are not
currently welcome on Wikitech-l then I will respect that and I will stop
cross-posting the threads to Wikitech-l. However, if no such consensus
emerges, then I suggest that you ignore these threads in the future.

The purpose of these emails is certainly not to annoy people, and I regret
if people find them to be more annoying than interesting, useful, or
encouraging.

I hope that people will contribute their own posts to these threads in
response to the prompt, "What’s making you happy this week? You are welcome
to comment in any language." Also, I would be happy to see a new person
start these threads each week, and to see multiple people contribute their
thoughts each week. However, if a new consensus emerges in against having
these threads on Wikitech-l, then I will abide by that consensus.

Pine
( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )


On Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 11:45 AM Andre Klapper <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> On Wed, 2019-06-19 at 07:17 +0000, Pine W wrote:
> > While browsing Japanese Wikipedia, I found this
>
> As "What's making you happy this week" messages seem to contain no
> questions, no expected interaction or followup on specific technical
> topics, no announcements about specific technical topics, and often no
> connection to the technical scope of wikitech-l@ (in the previous
> message, 1 out of 4 items covered a technical aspect), but seem to be a
> random link list of collected personal interest items:
> Has it been considered to post such messages to a personal blog (or
> such) instead, which might be a more suitable venue?
>
> andre
> --
> Andre Klapper | Bugwrangler / Developer Advocate
> https://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
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Re: 今週あなたを幸せにするものは何ですか? / What's making you happy this week? (Week of 16 June 2019)

Brian Wolff
I personally think these threads are fine (within reason) if they are
thankful about technical things and/or stuff connected to mediawiki.
Generic things about the wikimedia movement should stay on wikimedia-l; we
have multiple mailing lists with different scopes for a reason. In that
light, I consider the majority of your posts on this topic to be offtopic.

I would prefer that subject lines stay english. People use subject lines to
sort their mail into whats interesting to them. Random language subjects
interfere with that.

On Wednesday, June 19, 2019, Pine W <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Andre,
>
> I think that whether these threads are welcome by Wikitech-l subscribers in
> general is a reasonable question, although I disagree with a number of
> elements of your description of these threads. I took a somewhat bold step
> in February 2018 of expanding the posting of these threads from Wikimedia-l
> to both Wikimedia-l and Wikitech-l, and I expressed a willingness to listen
> to objections; see
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2018-February/089495.html
> .
> At that time, no one objected.
>
> Of the occasional feedback that I have received in public (more on
> Wikimedia-l than Wikitech-l) and private, 100% has been positive until now.
> However, I recognize that people's opinions may change over time. If a
> consensus emerges from Wikitech-l subscribers that these threads are not
> currently welcome on Wikitech-l then I will respect that and I will stop
> cross-posting the threads to Wikitech-l. However, if no such consensus
> emerges, then I suggest that you ignore these threads in the future.
>
> The purpose of these emails is certainly not to annoy people, and I regret
> if people find them to be more annoying than interesting, useful, or
> encouraging.
>
> I hope that people will contribute their own posts to these threads in
> response to the prompt, "What’s making you happy this week? You are welcome
> to comment in any language." Also, I would be happy to see a new person
> start these threads each week, and to see multiple people contribute their
> thoughts each week. However, if a new consensus emerges in against having
> these threads on Wikitech-l, then I will abide by that consensus.
>
> Pine
> ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 11:45 AM Andre Klapper <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 2019-06-19 at 07:17 +0000, Pine W wrote:
> > > While browsing Japanese Wikipedia, I found this
> >
> > As "What's making you happy this week" messages seem to contain no
> > questions, no expected interaction or followup on specific technical
> > topics, no announcements about specific technical topics, and often no
> > connection to the technical scope of wikitech-l@ (in the previous
> > message, 1 out of 4 items covered a technical aspect), but seem to be a
> > random link list of collected personal interest items:
> > Has it been considered to post such messages to a personal blog (or
> > such) instead, which might be a more suitable venue?
> >
> > andre
> > --
> > Andre Klapper | Bugwrangler / Developer Advocate
> > https://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
_______________________________________________
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Re: 今週あなたを幸せにするものは何ですか? / What's making you happy this week? (Week of 16 June 2019)

Pine W
Brian,

Thanks for the civil comments.

I think that language diversity valuable, and there is no requirement to
post in English to this list.

Although I appreciate the idea, I am unwilling to create a more narrowly
focused version of these threads for Wikitech-l. Someone else might be
willing to do that.

The 2 !votes against and 0 !votes in favor of continuing to cross post
these threads to Wikitech-l in their current form likely mean that I will
post these threads only to Wikimedia-l in the future. Although I am mildly
disappointed, I am OK with that.

Pine
( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
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Re: 今週あなたを幸せにするものは何ですか? / What's making you happy this week? (Week of 16 June 2019)

RhinosF1 Wikipedia
I should probably sign up for WikiMedia-l Then.

I quite like these emails.

Thanks,
Pine

On Thu, 20 Jun 2019 at 09:01, Pine W <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Brian,
>
> Thanks for the civil comments.
>
> I think that language diversity valuable, and there is no requirement to
> post in English to this list.
>
> Although I appreciate the idea, I am unwilling to create a more narrowly
> focused version of these threads for Wikitech-l. Someone else might be
> willing to do that.
>
> The 2 !votes against and 0 !votes in favor of continuing to cross post
> these threads to Wikitech-l in their current form likely mean that I will
> post these threads only to Wikimedia-l in the future. Although I am mildly
> disappointed, I am OK with that.
>
> Pine
> ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
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Re: 今週あなたを幸せにするものは何ですか? / What's making you happy this week? (Week of 16 June 2019)

Wikipedia Developers mailing list
In reply to this post by Pine W
So here is one vote in favor, if that helps.

Because seeing what is achieved and that there is somebody who actually cares makes me a bit happier each week.
I do not find these threads too intrusive and there is too little positive news, anyway.
Maybe, to help people filter these mails out easier, you could put the English title first and the non-English second.

Cheers
Stephan


‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
On Thursday, June 20, 2019 8:00 AM, Pine W <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Brian,
>
> Thanks for the civil comments.
>
> I think that language diversity valuable, and there is no requirement to
> post in English to this list.
>
> Although I appreciate the idea, I am unwilling to create a more narrowly
> focused version of these threads for Wikitech-l. Someone else might be
> willing to do that.
>
> The 2 !votes against and 0 !votes in favor of continuing to cross post
> these threads to Wikitech-l in their current form likely mean that I will
> post these threads only to Wikimedia-l in the future. Although I am mildly
> disappointed, I am OK with that.
>
> Pine
> ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
>
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l



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Re: 今週あなたを幸せにするものは何ですか? / What's making you happy this week? (Week of 16 June 2019)

Pine W
Hi,

Thank you for the positive comments, Stephan and RhinosF1.

I think that there is not a clear public majority opposed or in favor of
continuing to have these threads on Wikitech-l in their current form. The
relatively small number of people who commented suggests to me that most
readers of this list are neutral. I will err on the side of caution and
stop sharing the threads to Wikitech-l. I will continue to post these
threads to Wikimedia-l. Also, I will share modified versions of the content
for these threads in *The Signpost*
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost>, starting with
the next issue of that publication. If someone would like to create a
Wikitech-specific version of these threads, I think that they are welcome
to do that.

Pine
( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
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Re: 今週あなたを幸せにするものは何ですか? / What's making you happy this week? (Week of 16 June 2019)

Isarra Yos
Mailing lists aren't really a good place to establish consensus, as
every time someone weighs in, everyone is notified, so 'me too's are
frowned upon in principle.

Perhaps you might want to create an actual poll about preferred venues
etc onwiki and then send out a message to wikimedia-l linking to that if
you want a more meaningful assessment.

-I

On 24/06/2019 01:42, Pine W wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Thank you for the positive comments, Stephan and RhinosF1.
>
> I think that there is not a clear public majority opposed or in favor of
> continuing to have these threads on Wikitech-l in their current form. The
> relatively small number of people who commented suggests to me that most
> readers of this list are neutral. I will err on the side of caution and
> stop sharing the threads to Wikitech-l. I will continue to post these
> threads to Wikimedia-l. Also, I will share modified versions of the content
> for these threads in *The Signpost*
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost>, starting with
> the next issue of that publication. If someone would like to create a
> Wikitech-specific version of these threads, I think that they are welcome
> to do that.
>
> Pine
> ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l



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Re: 今週あなたを幸せにするものは何ですか? / What's making you happy this week? (Week of 16 June 2019)

Gergo Tisza
Regular practice of gratitude is well-understood to be a key element of
personal well-being (and while community health is a less researched area,
it seems likely that the benefits extend there too). As such these threads
are IMO very useful.

On Mon, Jun 24, 2019 at 6:40 PM Isarra Yos <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Mailing lists aren't really a good place to establish consensus, as
> every time someone weighs in, everyone is notified, so 'me too's are
> frowned upon in principle.
>
> Perhaps you might want to create an actual poll about preferred venues
> etc onwiki and then send out a message to wikimedia-l linking to that if
> you want a more meaningful assessment.
>
> -I
>
> On 24/06/2019 01:42, Pine W wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Thank you for the positive comments, Stephan and RhinosF1.
> >
> > I think that there is not a clear public majority opposed or in favor of
> > continuing to have these threads on Wikitech-l in their current form. The
> > relatively small number of people who commented suggests to me that most
> > readers of this list are neutral. I will err on the side of caution and
> > stop sharing the threads to Wikitech-l. I will continue to post these
> > threads to Wikimedia-l. Also, I will share modified versions of the
> content
> > for these threads in *The Signpost*
> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost>, starting
> with
> > the next issue of that publication. If someone would like to create a
> > Wikitech-specific version of these threads, I think that they are welcome
> > to do that.
> >
> > Pine
> > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
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Re: 今週あなたを幸せにするものは何ですか? / What's making you happy this week? (Week of 16 June 2019)

Pine W
Hi Isarra and Gergo,

Thanks very much for the feedback.

I appreciate the suggestion about a poll. I have been reluctant to start a
poll about this because I have several other issues that are occupying my
mind at the moment, including WMF's relationship with the
community/communities in general and ENWP in particular. Also, I have other
tasks that I need to complete.

I am continuing to send these threads to Wikimedia-l, and as of this month
an adapted version of these threads is included in *The Signpost*
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Signpost>.

In the future, I think that a poll would be worth considering. In the
meantime I think that Wikitech-l may be well served by the "Thank you
Tuesday" threads.

Regards,

Pine
( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )


On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 8:53 AM Gergo Tisza <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Regular practice of gratitude is well-understood to be a key element of
> personal well-being (and while community health is a less researched area,
> it seems likely that the benefits extend there too). As such these threads
> are IMO very useful.
>
> On Mon, Jun 24, 2019 at 6:40 PM Isarra Yos <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Mailing lists aren't really a good place to establish consensus, as
> > every time someone weighs in, everyone is notified, so 'me too's are
> > frowned upon in principle.
> >
> > Perhaps you might want to create an actual poll about preferred venues
> > etc onwiki and then send out a message to wikimedia-l linking to that if
> > you want a more meaningful assessment.
> >
> > -I
> >
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