Re: [Wikidata-l] Meeting about the support of Wiktionary in Wikidata

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Re: [Wikidata-l] Meeting about the support of Wiktionary in Wikidata

mathieu lovato stumpf guntz
Le 2013-08-09 13:04, Romaine Wiki a écrit :
> Are there much users from Wiktionary in Hong Kong? I do not think any
> of the Dutch users is, I can't say for others.
>
> I think it would be essential that this subject is discussed inside
> the wider Wiktionary community. To me the group of users
> participating
> is too narrow. Also is a mailing list not handy as most of the users
> from Wiktionary do not read that. I think a Wikt-community wide
> discussion is needed.

I agree, and I think meta would be the most obvious channel for such
a discussion.

As said in the previous email, there's already [[Wiktionary future]]
which is waiting for contributions and discussion on meta. Anyway,
whatever the canal, it would be realy important to make aware as
much contributors as possible aware of this initiative, so they can
provide relevant feedback specific to their needs.

>
> Romaine
>
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Fri, 8/9/13, David Cuenca <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>  Subject: [Wikidata-l] Meeting about the support of Wiktionary in
> Wikidata
>  To: [hidden email], "Wikimania general list (open
> subscription)" <[hidden email]>, "Discussion list
> for
> the Wikidata project." <[hidden email]>, "Wikimedia
> Mailing List" <[hidden email]>
>  Date: Friday, August 9, 2013, 4:43 AM
>
>  Hi,
>
>
>  If there is someone in Wikimania interested in participating
>  in the talks about the future support of Wiktionary in
>  Wikidata, we will having a discussion about the several
>  proposals.
>
>
>
>  
> http://wikimania2013.wikimedia.org/wiki/Support_of_Wiktionary_in_Wikidata
>
>  Date : Saturday, 10 Aug, 11:30 am - 1:00 pm
>
>
>  Place: Y520 (block Y, 5th floor)
>
>  See you there,
>  Micru
>
>
>  -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Wikidata-l mailing list
>  [hidden email]
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikidata-l] Meeting about the support of Wiktionary in Wikidata

David Cuenca Tudela
To add up a couple of comments to what Denny said, from my experience with
Wikisource, reaching out to international, loosely connected communities is
already a big challenge on its own. I would like to invite Wiktionary
contributors to take a look to this Individual Engagement Grant project
that Aubrey and me are doing for Wikisource, because maybe it would make
sense that a group of involved Wiktionarians started a similar initiative
for Wiktionary. The original application can be found here:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Elaborate_Wikisource_strategic_vision

And the midterm report:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Elaborate_Wikisource_strategic_vision

If anyone from the Wiktionary community wants to step forward, I would be
more than happy to share experiences and provide advice.

Cheers,
Micru

On Sat, Aug 10, 2013 at 3:30 AM, Denny Vrandečić <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> [Sorry for cross-posting]
>
> Yes, I agree that the OmegaWiki community should be involved in the
> discussions, and I pointed GerardM to our proposals whenever and
> discussions, using him as a liaison. We also looked and keep looking at the
> OmegaWiki data model to see what we are missing.
>
> Our latest proposal is different from OmegaWiki in two major points:
>
> * our primary goal is to provide support for structured data in the
> Wiktionaries. We do not plan to be the main resource ourselves, where
> readers come to in order to look up something, we merely provide structured
> data that a Wiktionary may or may not use. This parallels the role of
> Wikidata has with regards to Wikipedia. This also highlights the difference
> between Wikidata and OmegaWiki, since OmegaWiki's goal is "to create a
> dictionary of all words of all languages, including lexical, terminological
> and ontological information."
>
> * a smaller difference is the data model. Wikidata's latest proposal to
> support Wiktionary is centered around lexemes, and we do not assume that
> there is such a things as a language-independent defined meaning. But no
> matter what model we end up with, it is important to ensure that the bulk
> of the data could freely flow between the projects, and even though we
> might disagree on this issue in the modeling, it is ensured that the
> exchange of data is widely possible.
>
> We tried to keep notes on the discussion we had today: <
> http://epl.wikimedia.org/p/WiktionaryAndWikidata>
>
> My major take home message for me is that:
> * the proposal needs more visual elements, especially a mock-up or sketch
> of how it would look like and how it could be used on the Wiktionaries
> * there is no generally accepted place for a discussion that involves all
> Wiktionary projects. Still, my initial decision to have the discussion on
> the Wikidata wiki was not a good one, and it should and will be moved to
> Meta.
>
> Having said that, the current proposal for the data model of how to support
> Wiktionary with Wikidata seems to have garnered a lot of support so far. So
> this is what I will continue building upon. Further comments are extremely
> welcomed. You can find it here:
>
> <http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Wiktionary>
>
> As said, it will be moved to Meta, as soon as the requested mockups and
> extensions are done.
>
> Cheers,
> Denny
>
>
>
>
>
> 2013/8/10 Samuel Klein <[hidden email]>
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > > On Fri, Aug 9, 2013 at 6:13 PM, JP Béland <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > >> I agree. We also need to include the Omegawiki community.
> >
> > Agreed.
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 9, 2013 at 12:22 PM, Laura Hale <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > > Why? The question of moving them into the WMF fold was pretty much no,
> > > because the project has an overlapping purpose with Wiktionary,
> >
> > This is not actually the case.
> > There was overwhelming community support for adopting Omegawiki - at
> > least simply providing hosting.  It stalled because the code needed a
> > security and style review, and Kip (the lead developer) was going to
> > put some time into that.  The OW editors and dev were very interested
> > in finding a way forward that involved Wikidata and led to a combined
> > project with a single repository of terms, meanings, definitions and
> > translations.
> >
> > Recap: The page describing the OmegaWiki project satisfies all of the
> > criteria for requesting WMF adoption.
> > * It is well-defined on Meta http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Omegawiki
> > * It describes an interesting idea clearly aligned with expanding the
> > scope of free knowledge
> > * It is not a 'competing' project to Wiktionaries; it is an idea that
> > grew out of the Wiktionary community, has been developed for years
> > alongside it, and shares many active contributors and linguiaphiles.
> > * It started an RfC which garnered 85% support for adoption.
> > http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Adopt_OmegaWiki
> >
> > Even if the current OW code is not used at all for a future Wiktionary
> > update -- and this idea was proposed and taken seriously by the OW
> > devs -- their community of contributors should be part of discussions
> > about how to solve the Wiktionary problem that they were the first to
> > dedicate themselves to.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Sam.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
>
>
>
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