Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Commons-l] FOP in Europe: does this include WWII monuments with art?

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Commons-l] FOP in Europe: does this include WWII monuments with art?

Fae-3
Hi Jane,

I am sorry to hear this has been a concern. My intuition is that this
would be far less of a tangible risk to a team project than the fuss
about this stuff might lead you to believe, so long as we can
demonstrate sensible advice, review and precautions being taken.

In the UK, FOP tends to be very liberal, however memorials have
special issues to consider if the intention is for a free release on
Commons. I would have encouraged some guidelines for
photographers/uploaders to be written up, and then continued with the
event with these in place, possibly with a means of contributors
asking further questions and having their uploads reviewed for
compliance via an on-wiki project page.

A few nuts and bolts of it based on my experiences on Commons (from a
UK perspective, so this will vary somewhat in other parts of Europe)
are:
1. Any memorial must be a permanent feature. Any work of art that
appears temporary is unlikely to be covered by FOP.
2. Text on a memorial may be under its own copyright even though it is
on permanent public display, so the text itself must be demonstrably
out of copyright. This is a separate issue from the general FOP
provisions. If the text is incidental to the photograph, i.e. not a
close up and the text is effectively de minimus, then FOP is likely to
be valid.
3. Text which is embossed and made 3D, such as being part of an
inscribed plaque, may be considered a 3D work and covered by FOP.
4. Any memorial photographed whilst standing on private land may not
be covered by FOP.

The US has free speech, but is a long way from a country that accepts
FOP, however so long as the photo is taken in the EU and is of a fixed
and identified memorial, EU copyright law is the principle one to
consider and FOP applies.

Thanks,
Fae
--
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Guide to email tags: http://j.mp/mfae

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Commons-l] FOP in Europe: does this include WWII monuments with art?

Fae-3
On 2 March 2013 19:28, Andrew Gray <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 2 March 2013 12:04, Fae <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> 2. Text on a memorial may be under its own copyright even though it is
>> on permanent public display, so the text itself must be demonstrably
>> out of copyright. This is a separate issue from the general FOP
>> provisions. If the text is incidental to the photograph, i.e. not a
>> close up and the text is effectively de minimus, then FOP is likely to
>> be valid.
>
> One other thing to remember: most of this text is fairly uncreative -
> in many cases, standard phrases or dates, and lists of names. We could
> make a reasonably good case that they are unlikely to be copyrightable
> texts regardless of age.

That's true, and I have uploaded plenty of my own photos of war
memorials with close up details of names, rank and so forth. However I
have run into problems with memorial statements that contain poetry,
simple drawings and original dedications and some of these have been
deleted despite me being reasonably cautious. I still think this is
solvable with some simple guidelines/principles for those taking part
in an event to take care to avoid any later problems with uploads.

Cheers,
Fae

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Commons-l] FOP in Europe: does this include WWII monuments with art?

Jane Darnell
Thanks for sharing! If I browse the categories here:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Monuments_and_memorials_of_World_War_II_by_country

It seems there are plenty of photos with what appears to be
sculptures. I guess the risk of being slapped with a copyright
violation in these cases is pretty low. After all, if you created the
artwork or were an heir of someone who did, it would be pretty
tasteless to object, I guess.

I think the problem we are facing is that we cannot now sponsor such
uploads, as WMNL. So, it's fine if people do this on their own with no
encouragement from us, but until this whole issue is resolved we
cannot actively solicit such photographs from the volunteer community,
knowing there's a chance they can be deleted. I think in the case of a
photo contest, any copyvio deletion is one too many.

Jane


2013/3/2, Fae <[hidden email]>:

> On 2 March 2013 19:28, Andrew Gray <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On 2 March 2013 12:04, Fae <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> 2. Text on a memorial may be under its own copyright even though it is
>>> on permanent public display, so the text itself must be demonstrably
>>> out of copyright. This is a separate issue from the general FOP
>>> provisions. If the text is incidental to the photograph, i.e. not a
>>> close up and the text is effectively de minimus, then FOP is likely to
>>> be valid.
>>
>> One other thing to remember: most of this text is fairly uncreative -
>> in many cases, standard phrases or dates, and lists of names. We could
>> make a reasonably good case that they are unlikely to be copyrightable
>> texts regardless of age.
>
> That's true, and I have uploaded plenty of my own photos of war
> memorials with close up details of names, rank and so forth. However I
> have run into problems with memorial statements that contain poetry,
> simple drawings and original dedications and some of these have been
> deleted despite me being reasonably cautious. I still think this is
> solvable with some simple guidelines/principles for those taking part
> in an event to take care to avoid any later problems with uploads.
>
> Cheers,
> Fae
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
>

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