Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Foundation-l] Single login - decision 2004

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Foundation-l] Single login - decision 2004

Keegan Peterzell-2
On Nov 11, 2004, at 03:27:00 UTC , Erik Moeller <[hidden email]> wrote
[1]:

> Hi,
> there's been some movement forward on the Single User Login (SUL) issue. I
>
> ask the Board to review this mail carefully as this has significant long-
> term implications and we need Board input to go ahead. I also ask other
> developers to correct me if I misrepresent anything.
> There are currently three competing strategies. Before I describe these
> strategies, let me point out that one important consideration for any
> system is scalability. That is, single login will be used on all existing
> and future Wikimedia projects, and potentially even on non-Wikimedia sites
>
> which we allow to participate in our system.
> The three strategies are:
> 1) GLOBAL NAMESPACE, IMMEDIATE CONFLICT RESOLUTION
> We try to move towards a single global user namespace for all Wikimedia
> wikis. If a name is already taken in the global namespace, you have to
> find one which isn't.
> For the migration, any names which clearly belong to the same user are
> combined into one. If passwords and email addresses are different, the
> user can manually link together any accounts which belong to him by
> providing the passwords.
> For cases of true name conflicts between the existing wikis, there is a
> resolution phase, where factors like seniority, use on multiple wikis vs.
> a single one, etc., are weighed in - the "loser" has to choose a new
> account name.
> After the manual resolution phase, any remaining accounts are converted to
>
> the new system automatically by making them unique, e.g. by adding a
> number to the username. The transition is now complete. The old system no
> longer exists.

---

> 1) is very complex, and we may not find someone willing to deal with the
> name conflict resolution issue and take the blame from annoyed users at
> the same time. Naming conflicts will always be an issue in this scheme, as
>
> e.g. all common first names will be taken, and any small wiki hooking up
> with our SUL system would feel this impact. People can mutate these
> usernames relatively easily to make them unique - Erik333 - and the system
>
> can offer such mutations, but it's still a bit annoying.


This is now complete [2]. That wasn't too bad.

1.
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2004-November/061327.html
2. https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2015-April/077576.html

--
Keegan Peterzell
Community Liaison, Product
Wikimedia Foundation
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Foundation-l] Single login - decision 2004

Ori Livneh
On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 11:34 PM, Keegan Peterzell <[hidden email]
> wrote:

> This is now complete [2]. That wasn't too bad.
>
> 1.
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2004-November/061327.html
> 2.
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2015-April/077576.html


Congratulations, and hats off to you, Kunal, and the rest of the team for
pulling this off. The layers of legacy code and complex social conundrums
you have had to negotiate in order to see this project through were
terrifyingly large, and it's pretty incredible that you have been able to
see it through with minimal disruption to users. Kudos and thank you.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Foundation-l] Single login - decision 2004

James Alexander-4
In reply to this post by Keegan Peterzell-2
James Alexander
Community Advocacy
Wikimedia Foundation
(415) 839-6885 x6716 @jamesofur

On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 11:34 PM, Keegan Peterzell <[hidden email]
> wrote:

> On Nov 11, 2004, at 03:27:00 UTC , Erik Moeller <[hidden email]>
> wrote
> [1]:
>
> > Hi,
> > there's been some movement forward on the Single User Login (SUL) issue
>
>
> This is now complete [2]. That wasn't too bad.
>
> 1.
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2004-November/061327.html
> 2.
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2015-April/077576.html
>
> --
> Keegan Peterzell
> Community Liaison, Product
> Wikimedia Foundation
>


Well played sir, well found in the archives and well played.

Congrats, and thank you to you, Kunal, the global renamers & stewards and
everyone involved both directly and indirectly.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Foundation-l] Single login - decision 2004

Erik Moeller-4
In reply to this post by Keegan Peterzell-2
On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 11:34 PM, Keegan Peterzell
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> This is now complete [2]. That wasn't too bad.

Nicely done. :-) Kudos to you, Kunal & everyone else involved in
finally bringing this one home.

Eloquence~metawiki

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Foundation-l] Single login - decision 2004

Philippe Beaudette-3
On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 9:44 AM, Erik Moeller <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Eloquence~metawiki


Geekpoints, +2


*Philippe Beaudette * \\  Director, Community Advocacy \\ Wikimedia
Foundation, Inc.
T: 1-415-839-6885 x6643 |  [hidden email]  |  :  @Philippewiki
<https://twitter.com/Philippewiki>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Foundation-l] Single login - decision 2004

Anna Stillwell
Really nicely done. Given how you spoke of this earlier I thought for sure
this would not be as seamless as it appears to have gone. Congrats again.
/a

On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 9:47 AM, Philippe Beaudette <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 9:44 AM, Erik Moeller <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Eloquence~metawiki
>
>
> Geekpoints, +2
>
>
> *Philippe Beaudette * \\  Director, Community Advocacy \\ Wikimedia
> Foundation, Inc.
> T: 1-415-839-6885 x6643 |  [hidden email]  |  :  @Philippewiki
> <https://twitter.com/Philippewiki>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>



--
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Senior Learning and Org Dev Lead
Wikimedia Foundation
415.806.1536
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Foundation-l] Single login - decision 2004

Eduardo Testart
Hi,

I do not know if this is the right thread to post this (otherwise ignore
and please post me in the right direction).

I believe that there is a bug in the Central Auth, since I've seen at least
two users where the information that appears about when they started
editing does not match the information saved in the wiki (as off first
edit).

Could this be a bug due to the recent change?

Best!
El abr. 22, 2015 1:49 PM, "Anna Stillwell" <[hidden email]>
escribió:

> Really nicely done. Given how you spoke of this earlier I thought for sure
> this would not be as seamless as it appears to have gone. Congrats again.
> /a
>
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 9:47 AM, Philippe Beaudette <
> [hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 9:44 AM, Erik Moeller <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Eloquence~metawiki
> >
> >
> > Geekpoints, +2
> >
> >
> > *Philippe Beaudette * \\  Director, Community Advocacy \\ Wikimedia
> > Foundation, Inc.
> > T: 1-415-839-6885 x6643 |  [hidden email]  |  :  @Philippewiki
> > <https://twitter.com/Philippewiki>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Anna Stillwell
> Senior Learning and Org Dev Lead
> Wikimedia Foundation
> 415.806.1536
> *www.wikimediafoundation.org <http://www.wikimediafoundation.org>*
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Foundation-l] Single login - decision 2004

Dan Garry
In reply to this post by Keegan Peterzell-2
Nice work, Kunal and Keegan. :-)

Dan

On 21 April 2015 at 23:34, Keegan Peterzell <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> On Nov 11, 2004, at 03:27:00 UTC , Erik Moeller <[hidden email]>
> wrote
> [1]:
>
> > Hi,
> > there's been some movement forward on the Single User Login (SUL) issue.
> I
> >
> > ask the Board to review this mail carefully as this has significant long-
> > term implications and we need Board input to go ahead. I also ask other
> > developers to correct me if I misrepresent anything.
> > There are currently three competing strategies. Before I describe these
> > strategies, let me point out that one important consideration for any
> > system is scalability. That is, single login will be used on all existing
> > and future Wikimedia projects, and potentially even on non-Wikimedia
> sites
> >
> > which we allow to participate in our system.
> > The three strategies are:
> > 1) GLOBAL NAMESPACE, IMMEDIATE CONFLICT RESOLUTION
> > We try to move towards a single global user namespace for all Wikimedia
> > wikis. If a name is already taken in the global namespace, you have to
> > find one which isn't.
> > For the migration, any names which clearly belong to the same user are
> > combined into one. If passwords and email addresses are different, the
> > user can manually link together any accounts which belong to him by
> > providing the passwords.
> > For cases of true name conflicts between the existing wikis, there is a
> > resolution phase, where factors like seniority, use on multiple wikis vs.
> > a single one, etc., are weighed in - the "loser" has to choose a new
> > account name.
> > After the manual resolution phase, any remaining accounts are converted
> to
> >
> > the new system automatically by making them unique, e.g. by adding a
> > number to the username. The transition is now complete. The old system no
> > longer exists.
>
> ---
>
> > 1) is very complex, and we may not find someone willing to deal with the
> > name conflict resolution issue and take the blame from annoyed users at
> > the same time. Naming conflicts will always be an issue in this scheme,
> as
> >
> > e.g. all common first names will be taken, and any small wiki hooking up
> > with our SUL system would feel this impact. People can mutate these
> > usernames relatively easily to make them unique - Erik333 - and the
> system
> >
> > can offer such mutations, but it's still a bit annoying.
>
>
> This is now complete [2]. That wasn't too bad.
>
> 1.
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2004-November/061327.html
> 2.
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2015-April/077576.html
>
> --
> Keegan Peterzell
> Community Liaison, Product
> Wikimedia Foundation
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>




--
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Product Manager, Search and Discovery
Wikimedia Foundation
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Foundation-l] Single login - decision 2004

Keegan Peterzell-2
In reply to this post by Eduardo Testart
On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 12:37 PM, Eduardo Testart <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I do not know if this is the right thread to post this (otherwise ignore
> and please post me in the right direction).
>
> I believe that there is a bug in the Central Auth, since I've seen at least
> two users where the information that appears about when they started
> editing does not match the information saved in the wiki (as off first
> edit).
>
> Could this be a bug due to the recent change?
>

Hi there,

What you're likely seeing that's causing confusion is the difference
between when an account was created locally and when an account was created
globally. For example, on 16/17 March 1.4 million local accounts were
attached to global accounts, so it looks like they were only created a
month ago on CentralAuth (because they were only created a month ago on
CentralAuth) when the account could be as old as the wiki itself in local
registration.

Hope that helps explain it.

--
Keegan Peterzell
Community Liaison, Product
Wikimedia Foundation
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Foundation-l] Single login - decision 2004

Asaf Bartov-2
On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 2:13 PM, Keegan Peterzell <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> What you're likely seeing that's causing confusion is the difference
> between when an account was created locally and when an account was created
> globally. For example, on 16/17 March 1.4 million local accounts were
> attached to global accounts, so it looks like they were only created a
> month ago on CentralAuth (because they were only created a month ago on
> CentralAuth) when the account could be as old as the wiki itself in local
>
registration.
>

Right.  But now that the SULpocalypse is come[1], and we're all one big
happy user namespace, the value of "date created on CentralAuth" is
significantly lower than what people really want to see in that field,
which is "date started editing, anywhere".  It was much more impractical
until now, but perhaps now (read: when the dust settles and any dangling
issues are dealt with, and you're back from vacation), it would actually
make sense to run a one-time job to backdate the SUL accounts to the actual
first edit of each now-unified account?[2]

Cheers,

   the One True [[User:Ijon]] :)

[1] kudos on that, and on the elegantly epic thread resurrection. :)
[2] Best response possible would be an already-existing Phabricator ticket,
of course.

--
    Asaf Bartov
    Wikimedia Foundation <http://www.wikimediafoundation.org>

Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the
sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Foundation-l] Single login - decision 2004

Eduardo Testart
Hi,

The case I found says:

   - Registered: XX feb 2011 (4 years ago), which is actually the date when
   the CentralAuth claims that the account was "attached on".

But:

   - First edit: XX may 2006

This dates do not match when an account was created locally and when an
account was created globally. Also, the field says "registered" but shows
something else.

I believe Asaf could be right, and would agree on a one-time job to
backdate the SUL accounts to the actual first edit of each now-unified
account happened, of course, when things settle down.


Thanks.

On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 7:38 PM, Asaf Bartov <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 2:13 PM, Keegan Peterzell <
> [hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > What you're likely seeing that's causing confusion is the difference
> > between when an account was created locally and when an account was
> created
> > globally. For example, on 16/17 March 1.4 million local accounts were
> > attached to global accounts, so it looks like they were only created a
> > month ago on CentralAuth (because they were only created a month ago on
> > CentralAuth) when the account could be as old as the wiki itself in local
> >
> registration.
> >
>
> Right.  But now that the SULpocalypse is come[1], and we're all one big
> happy user namespace, the value of "date created on CentralAuth" is
> significantly lower than what people really want to see in that field,
> which is "date started editing, anywhere".  It was much more impractical
> until now, but perhaps now (read: when the dust settles and any dangling
> issues are dealt with, and you're back from vacation), it would actually
> make sense to run a one-time job to backdate the SUL accounts to the actual
> first edit of each now-unified account?[2]
>
> Cheers,
>
>    the One True [[User:Ijon]] :)
>
> [1] kudos on that, and on the elegantly epic thread resurrection. :)
> [2] Best response possible would be an already-existing Phabricator ticket,
> of course.
>
> --
>     Asaf Bartov
>     Wikimedia Foundation <http://www.wikimediafoundation.org>
>
> Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the
> sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!
> https://donate.wikimedia.org
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>



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