Re: [Wikimedia-l] New Code of Conduct committee candidates

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] New Code of Conduct committee candidates

Thomas Townsend
Amir

May we not know the real names of the committee members, as opposed to
their pseudonyms?  Surely that is necessary, both as a matter of
general principle, and specifically in case it were ever to turn out
that a member of the committee might be involved in a complaint.

The Turnip

On Thu, 20 Jun 2019 at 10:39, Amir Sarabadani <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Hello everyone,
> The deadline for the public feedback was yesterday. Some objections have
> raised but committee decided not to change the structure of committee and
> its candidates. It means the new committee with the given members starts
> serving as of today until 19 June 2020.
>
> Please join me on thanking Nuria and Rosalie for their service and welcome
> Tonina and MusikAnimal to the main members of the committee.
>
> Best
>
> On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 9:13 PM Amir Sarabadani <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> > The committee has finished selecting new members and the new committee
> > candidates are (In alphabetical order):
> >
> >    - Amir Sarabadani
> >    - Lucie-Aimée Kaffee
> >    - MusikAnimal
> >    - Tonina Zhelyazkova
> >    - Tony Thomas
> >
> > And auxiliary members will be (In alphabetical order):
> >
> >    - Huji
> >    - Matanya
> >    - Nuria Ruiz
> >    - Rosalie Perside
> >    - Tpt
> >
> > You can read more about the members in [0]
> >
> > The changes are:
> > * Nuria and Rosalie are moving from main member to auxilary members
> > * MusikAnimal is moving from auxilary member to main
> > * Tonina Zhelyazkova is joining the main members
> >
> > This is not the final structure. According to the CoC [1], the current
> > committee publishes the new members and call for public feedback for *six
> > weeks* and after that, the current committtee might apply changes to the
> > structure based on public feedback.
> >
> > Please let the committee know if you have any concern regarding the
> > members and its structure until *19 June 2019* and after that, the new
> > committee will be in effect and will serve for a year.
> >
> > [0]:
> > https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Code_of_Conduct/Committee/Members/Candidates
> > [1]:
> > https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Code_of_Conduct/Committee#Selection_of_new_members
> >
> > Amir, On behalf of the Code of Conduct committee
> > Best
> >
> >
>
> --
> Amir (he/him)
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] New Code of Conduct committee candidates

Amir Sarabadani-2
Hello,
(As a member, not talking on behalf of the committee)
The committee is a body of volunteers and they can't be forced to disclose
their real identities. There's no such policy in the CoC and if you think
it should be added, feel free start a discussion on CoC amendment [0] but
in the mean time, we are not allowed and won't disclose people's real
identities. The committee itself refrain involving people who have conflict
of interest with the case (whether it involves them or someone close)

[0] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Code_of_Conduct/Amendments

Best

On Fri, Jun 21, 2019 at 7:43 AM Thomas Townsend <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Amir
>
> May we not know the real names of the committee members, as opposed to
> their pseudonyms?  Surely that is necessary, both as a matter of
> general principle, and specifically in case it were ever to turn out
> that a member of the committee might be involved in a complaint.
>
> The Turnip
>
> On Thu, 20 Jun 2019 at 10:39, Amir Sarabadani <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Hello everyone,
> > The deadline for the public feedback was yesterday. Some objections have
> > raised but committee decided not to change the structure of committee and
> > its candidates. It means the new committee with the given members starts
> > serving as of today until 19 June 2020.
> >
> > Please join me on thanking Nuria and Rosalie for their service and
> welcome
> > Tonina and MusikAnimal to the main members of the committee.
> >
> > Best
> >
> > On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 9:13 PM Amir Sarabadani <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Hello,
> > > The committee has finished selecting new members and the new committee
> > > candidates are (In alphabetical order):
> > >
> > >    - Amir Sarabadani
> > >    - Lucie-Aimée Kaffee
> > >    - MusikAnimal
> > >    - Tonina Zhelyazkova
> > >    - Tony Thomas
> > >
> > > And auxiliary members will be (In alphabetical order):
> > >
> > >    - Huji
> > >    - Matanya
> > >    - Nuria Ruiz
> > >    - Rosalie Perside
> > >    - Tpt
> > >
> > > You can read more about the members in [0]
> > >
> > > The changes are:
> > > * Nuria and Rosalie are moving from main member to auxilary members
> > > * MusikAnimal is moving from auxilary member to main
> > > * Tonina Zhelyazkova is joining the main members
> > >
> > > This is not the final structure. According to the CoC [1], the current
> > > committee publishes the new members and call for public feedback for
> *six
> > > weeks* and after that, the current committtee might apply changes to
> the
> > > structure based on public feedback.
> > >
> > > Please let the committee know if you have any concern regarding the
> > > members and its structure until *19 June 2019* and after that, the new
> > > committee will be in effect and will serve for a year.
> > >
> > > [0]:
> > >
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Code_of_Conduct/Committee/Members/Candidates
> > > [1]:
> > >
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Code_of_Conduct/Committee#Selection_of_new_members
> > >
> > > Amir, On behalf of the Code of Conduct committee
> > > Best
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Amir (he/him)
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>



--
Amir (he/him)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] New Code of Conduct committee candidates

Effe iets anders
Hi Amir,

Thanks. I agree with your assessment.

Probably asking for the obvious: is there someone on the committee that
knows the real world identity (and the other way around, the online
pseudonym) of each member, and could flag a COI/suggest to abstain if need
be? (aside from people refraining themselves)

Lodewijk

On Fri, Jun 21, 2019 at 9:32 AM Amir Sarabadani <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello,
> (As a member, not talking on behalf of the committee)
> The committee is a body of volunteers and they can't be forced to disclose
> their real identities. There's no such policy in the CoC and if you think
> it should be added, feel free start a discussion on CoC amendment [0] but
> in the mean time, we are not allowed and won't disclose people's real
> identities. The committee itself refrain involving people who have conflict
> of interest with the case (whether it involves them or someone close)
>
> [0] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Code_of_Conduct/Amendments
>
> Best
>
> On Fri, Jun 21, 2019 at 7:43 AM Thomas Townsend <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Amir
> >
> > May we not know the real names of the committee members, as opposed to
> > their pseudonyms?  Surely that is necessary, both as a matter of
> > general principle, and specifically in case it were ever to turn out
> > that a member of the committee might be involved in a complaint.
> >
> > The Turnip
> >
> > On Thu, 20 Jun 2019 at 10:39, Amir Sarabadani <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello everyone,
> > > The deadline for the public feedback was yesterday. Some objections
> have
> > > raised but committee decided not to change the structure of committee
> and
> > > its candidates. It means the new committee with the given members
> starts
> > > serving as of today until 19 June 2020.
> > >
> > > Please join me on thanking Nuria and Rosalie for their service and
> > welcome
> > > Tonina and MusikAnimal to the main members of the committee.
> > >
> > > Best
> > >
> > > On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 9:13 PM Amir Sarabadani <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hello,
> > > > The committee has finished selecting new members and the new
> committee
> > > > candidates are (In alphabetical order):
> > > >
> > > >    - Amir Sarabadani
> > > >    - Lucie-Aimée Kaffee
> > > >    - MusikAnimal
> > > >    - Tonina Zhelyazkova
> > > >    - Tony Thomas
> > > >
> > > > And auxiliary members will be (In alphabetical order):
> > > >
> > > >    - Huji
> > > >    - Matanya
> > > >    - Nuria Ruiz
> > > >    - Rosalie Perside
> > > >    - Tpt
> > > >
> > > > You can read more about the members in [0]
> > > >
> > > > The changes are:
> > > > * Nuria and Rosalie are moving from main member to auxilary members
> > > > * MusikAnimal is moving from auxilary member to main
> > > > * Tonina Zhelyazkova is joining the main members
> > > >
> > > > This is not the final structure. According to the CoC [1], the
> current
> > > > committee publishes the new members and call for public feedback for
> > *six
> > > > weeks* and after that, the current committtee might apply changes to
> > the
> > > > structure based on public feedback.
> > > >
> > > > Please let the committee know if you have any concern regarding the
> > > > members and its structure until *19 June 2019* and after that, the
> new
> > > > committee will be in effect and will serve for a year.
> > > >
> > > > [0]:
> > > >
> >
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Code_of_Conduct/Committee/Members/Candidates
> > > > [1]:
> > > >
> >
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Code_of_Conduct/Committee#Selection_of_new_members
> > > >
> > > > Amir, On behalf of the Code of Conduct committee
> > > > Best
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Amir (he/him)
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
>
>
> --
> Amir (he/him)
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] New Code of Conduct committee candidates

Thomas Townsend
In reply to this post by Amir Sarabadani-2
Amir

> The committee is a body of volunteers and they can't be forced to disclose
> their real identities. There's no such policy in the CoC

That does not appear to be correct.  The CoC policy requires that the
volunteer committee members identify themselves *to the Foundation*.

The Turnip

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] New Code of Conduct committee candidates

Amir Sarabadani-2
In reply to this post by Effe iets anders
Hey,
People in the committee have meetings from time to time, so they know each
other but we don't have any "dedicated" person to keep track of real
identities/pseudonym of the members.

HTH
Best

On Fri, Jun 21, 2019 at 7:55 PM effe iets anders <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hi Amir,
>
> Thanks. I agree with your assessment.
>
> Probably asking for the obvious: is there someone on the committee that
> knows the real world identity (and the other way around, the online
> pseudonym) of each member, and could flag a COI/suggest to abstain if need
> be? (aside from people refraining themselves)
>
> Lodewijk
>
> On Fri, Jun 21, 2019 at 9:32 AM Amir Sarabadani <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> > (As a member, not talking on behalf of the committee)
> > The committee is a body of volunteers and they can't be forced to
> disclose
> > their real identities. There's no such policy in the CoC and if you think
> > it should be added, feel free start a discussion on CoC amendment [0] but
> > in the mean time, we are not allowed and won't disclose people's real
> > identities. The committee itself refrain involving people who have
> conflict
> > of interest with the case (whether it involves them or someone close)
> >
> > [0] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Code_of_Conduct/Amendments
> >
> > Best
> >
> > On Fri, Jun 21, 2019 at 7:43 AM Thomas Townsend <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Amir
> > >
> > > May we not know the real names of the committee members, as opposed to
> > > their pseudonyms?  Surely that is necessary, both as a matter of
> > > general principle, and specifically in case it were ever to turn out
> > > that a member of the committee might be involved in a complaint.
> > >
> > > The Turnip
> > >
> > > On Thu, 20 Jun 2019 at 10:39, Amir Sarabadani <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hello everyone,
> > > > The deadline for the public feedback was yesterday. Some objections
> > have
> > > > raised but committee decided not to change the structure of committee
> > and
> > > > its candidates. It means the new committee with the given members
> > starts
> > > > serving as of today until 19 June 2020.
> > > >
> > > > Please join me on thanking Nuria and Rosalie for their service and
> > > welcome
> > > > Tonina and MusikAnimal to the main members of the committee.
> > > >
> > > > Best
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 9:13 PM Amir Sarabadani <[hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hello,
> > > > > The committee has finished selecting new members and the new
> > committee
> > > > > candidates are (In alphabetical order):
> > > > >
> > > > >    - Amir Sarabadani
> > > > >    - Lucie-Aimée Kaffee
> > > > >    - MusikAnimal
> > > > >    - Tonina Zhelyazkova
> > > > >    - Tony Thomas
> > > > >
> > > > > And auxiliary members will be (In alphabetical order):
> > > > >
> > > > >    - Huji
> > > > >    - Matanya
> > > > >    - Nuria Ruiz
> > > > >    - Rosalie Perside
> > > > >    - Tpt
> > > > >
> > > > > You can read more about the members in [0]
> > > > >
> > > > > The changes are:
> > > > > * Nuria and Rosalie are moving from main member to auxilary members
> > > > > * MusikAnimal is moving from auxilary member to main
> > > > > * Tonina Zhelyazkova is joining the main members
> > > > >
> > > > > This is not the final structure. According to the CoC [1], the
> > current
> > > > > committee publishes the new members and call for public feedback
> for
> > > *six
> > > > > weeks* and after that, the current committtee might apply changes
> to
> > > the
> > > > > structure based on public feedback.
> > > > >
> > > > > Please let the committee know if you have any concern regarding the
> > > > > members and its structure until *19 June 2019* and after that, the
> > new
> > > > > committee will be in effect and will serve for a year.
> > > > >
> > > > > [0]:
> > > > >
> > >
> >
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Code_of_Conduct/Committee/Members/Candidates
> > > > > [1]:
> > > > >
> > >
> >
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Code_of_Conduct/Committee#Selection_of_new_members
> > > > >
> > > > > Amir, On behalf of the Code of Conduct committee
> > > > > Best
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Amir (he/him)
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Amir (he/him)
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
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> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>



--
Amir (he/him)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] New Code of Conduct committee candidates

Amir Sarabadani-2
In reply to this post by Thomas Townsend
Yes, I don't see those to be contradictory. All members need to identify
themselves to WMF but not to each other or public.

On Sun, Jun 23, 2019, 18:36 Thomas Townsend <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Amir
>
> > The committee is a body of volunteers and they can't be forced to
> disclose
> > their real identities. There's no such policy in the CoC
>
> That does not appear to be correct.  The CoC policy requires that the
> volunteer committee members identify themselves *to the Foundation*.
>
> The Turnip
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
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