Re: [Wikimedia-l] Universal Code of Conduct Drafting Committee - Call for participation

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Universal Code of Conduct Drafting Committee - Call for participation

Christel Steigenberger
Hello everyone,


We are happy to announce that the Universal Code of Conduct drafting
committee has been assembled. We had 26 volunteers apply, either by
publicly signing up on the Meta page, or by sending an email. Volunteers
from 18 different countries applied, speaking 11 different languages.

We had Wikimedian applicants with different levels of experience on-wiki,
from someone who started editing only last year to people who have been
editing for more than 18 years and/or have more than 300,000 edits.
Applicants held a variety of different roles within the movement, and also
informed us about interesting and relevant experiences in their real-life
careers. It was very hard to narrow down from this diverse and extremely
qualified pool of applicants.

For the final selection, two aspects guided the decision making - we want a
committee that at the one hand will represent important parts of the
movement. Prolific editors as well as Wikimedians whose strength is more in
organizing events, wikimedians from different demographics, contributors
from small and large wikis, and people holding different roles within the
movement. We also wanted a group of people who will collaborate with one
another effectively and create the best possible Universal Code of Conduct
for the Wikimedia movement. Experience has taught us that committees that
are too large find it difficult to work effectively, so we decided to cap
the number of seats to 6 volunteer seats and 3 staff seats.

More information on the Committee and its new members can be found on Meta
<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee>
[1], and a timeline for their work is available on the main UCoC page
<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct> [2]. Please
note that more chances for engagement are coming up during the community
draft review period starting from August 24.

Best regards,
Christel

  [1]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee

[2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct

Christel Steigenberger (she/her)

Trust and Safety Specialist

Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
_______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Universal Code of Conduct Drafting Committee - Call for participation

Peter Southwood
Hi Christel,
I wish the committee well, and success in coming up with a workable policy. This is fine as long as no assumption is made that these people represent the communities in any way other than for themselves. They may be fine people and may even have excellent ideas and skills suited to the task, but they are not our representatives, and we expect to be consulted regarding the results of this work. I understand that this may be your intention anyway, but we have seen too many fiascos  resulting from a small group of people coming up with some proposal and WMF declaring this to be "movement policy" or something to that effect.
Cheers,
Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Christel Steigenberger
Sent: 30 July 2020 19:49
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Universal Code of Conduct Drafting Committee - Call for participation

Hello everyone,


We are happy to announce that the Universal Code of Conduct drafting
committee has been assembled. We had 26 volunteers apply, either by
publicly signing up on the Meta page, or by sending an email. Volunteers
from 18 different countries applied, speaking 11 different languages.

We had Wikimedian applicants with different levels of experience on-wiki,
from someone who started editing only last year to people who have been
editing for more than 18 years and/or have more than 300,000 edits.
Applicants held a variety of different roles within the movement, and also
informed us about interesting and relevant experiences in their real-life
careers. It was very hard to narrow down from this diverse and extremely
qualified pool of applicants.

For the final selection, two aspects guided the decision making - we want a
committee that at the one hand will represent important parts of the
movement. Prolific editors as well as Wikimedians whose strength is more in
organizing events, wikimedians from different demographics, contributors
from small and large wikis, and people holding different roles within the
movement. We also wanted a group of people who will collaborate with one
another effectively and create the best possible Universal Code of Conduct
for the Wikimedia movement. Experience has taught us that committees that
are too large find it difficult to work effectively, so we decided to cap
the number of seats to 6 volunteer seats and 3 staff seats.

More information on the Committee and its new members can be found on Meta
<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee>
[1], and a timeline for their work is available on the main UCoC page
<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct> [2]. Please
note that more chances for engagement are coming up during the community
draft review period starting from August 24.

Best regards,
Christel

  [1]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee

[2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct

Christel Steigenberger (she/her)

Trust and Safety Specialist

Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Universal Code of Conduct Drafting Committee - Call for participation

Gerard Meijssen-3
Hoi,
So what is your alternative, what do you have as an alternative?
Thanks,
      GerardM

On Thu, 30 Jul 2020 at 20:24, Peter Southwood <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hi Christel,
> I wish the committee well, and success in coming up with a workable
> policy. This is fine as long as no assumption is made that these people
> represent the communities in any way other than for themselves. They may be
> fine people and may even have excellent ideas and skills suited to the
> task, but they are not our representatives, and we expect to be consulted
> regarding the results of this work. I understand that this may be your
> intention anyway, but we have seen too many fiascos  resulting from a small
> group of people coming up with some proposal and WMF declaring this to be
> "movement policy" or something to that effect.
> Cheers,
> Peter
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:[hidden email]] On
> Behalf Of Christel Steigenberger
> Sent: 30 July 2020 19:49
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Universal Code of Conduct Drafting Committee -
> Call for participation
>
> Hello everyone,
>
>
> We are happy to announce that the Universal Code of Conduct drafting
> committee has been assembled. We had 26 volunteers apply, either by
> publicly signing up on the Meta page, or by sending an email. Volunteers
> from 18 different countries applied, speaking 11 different languages.
>
> We had Wikimedian applicants with different levels of experience on-wiki,
> from someone who started editing only last year to people who have been
> editing for more than 18 years and/or have more than 300,000 edits.
> Applicants held a variety of different roles within the movement, and also
> informed us about interesting and relevant experiences in their real-life
> careers. It was very hard to narrow down from this diverse and extremely
> qualified pool of applicants.
>
> For the final selection, two aspects guided the decision making - we want a
> committee that at the one hand will represent important parts of the
> movement. Prolific editors as well as Wikimedians whose strength is more in
> organizing events, wikimedians from different demographics, contributors
> from small and large wikis, and people holding different roles within the
> movement. We also wanted a group of people who will collaborate with one
> another effectively and create the best possible Universal Code of Conduct
> for the Wikimedia movement. Experience has taught us that committees that
> are too large find it difficult to work effectively, so we decided to cap
> the number of seats to 6 volunteer seats and 3 staff seats.
>
> More information on the Committee and its new members can be found on Meta
> <
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee
> >
> [1], and a timeline for their work is available on the main UCoC page
> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct> [2]. Please
> note that more chances for engagement are coming up during the community
> draft review period starting from August 24.
>
> Best regards,
> Christel
>
>   [1]
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee
>
> [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct
>
> Christel Steigenberger (she/her)
>
> Trust and Safety Specialist
>
> Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
> --
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> https://www.avg.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Universal Code of Conduct Drafting Committee - Call for participation

bobby shabangu
In reply to this post by Peter Southwood
Dear Christel,

Congratulations. We will be following developments closely and wishing the
committee all the best.

Kind regards,
Bobby Shabangu

On Thu, 30 Jul 2020 at 20:24, Peter Southwood <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hi Christel,
> I wish the committee well, and success in coming up with a workable
> policy. This is fine as long as no assumption is made that these people
> represent the communities in any way other than for themselves. They may be
> fine people and may even have excellent ideas and skills suited to the
> task, but they are not our representatives, and we expect to be consulted
> regarding the results of this work. I understand that this may be your
> intention anyway, but we have seen too many fiascos  resulting from a small
> group of people coming up with some proposal and WMF declaring this to be
> "movement policy" or something to that effect.
> Cheers,
> Peter
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:[hidden email]] On
> Behalf Of Christel Steigenberger
> Sent: 30 July 2020 19:49
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Universal Code of Conduct Drafting Committee -
> Call for participation
>
> Hello everyone,
>
>
> We are happy to announce that the Universal Code of Conduct drafting
> committee has been assembled. We had 26 volunteers apply, either by
> publicly signing up on the Meta page, or by sending an email. Volunteers
> from 18 different countries applied, speaking 11 different languages.
>
> We had Wikimedian applicants with different levels of experience on-wiki,
> from someone who started editing only last year to people who have been
> editing for more than 18 years and/or have more than 300,000 edits.
> Applicants held a variety of different roles within the movement, and also
> informed us about interesting and relevant experiences in their real-life
> careers. It was very hard to narrow down from this diverse and extremely
> qualified pool of applicants.
>
> For the final selection, two aspects guided the decision making - we want a
> committee that at the one hand will represent important parts of the
> movement. Prolific editors as well as Wikimedians whose strength is more in
> organizing events, wikimedians from different demographics, contributors
> from small and large wikis, and people holding different roles within the
> movement. We also wanted a group of people who will collaborate with one
> another effectively and create the best possible Universal Code of Conduct
> for the Wikimedia movement. Experience has taught us that committees that
> are too large find it difficult to work effectively, so we decided to cap
> the number of seats to 6 volunteer seats and 3 staff seats.
>
> More information on the Committee and its new members can be found on Meta
> <
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee
> >
> [1], and a timeline for their work is available on the main UCoC page
> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct> [2]. Please
> note that more chances for engagement are coming up during the community
> draft review period starting from August 24.
>
> Best regards,
> Christel
>
>   [1]
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee
>
> [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct
>
> Christel Steigenberger (she/her)
>
> Trust and Safety Specialist
>
> Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
> --
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> https://www.avg.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Universal Code of Conduct Drafting Committee - Call for participation

Rajeeb Dutta
Dear Christel,

Thanks for the update. I like to conga the new committee and wish the best.

Best Regards,
Rajeeb.
(U: Marajozkee)
(Sent from my iPhone pardon the brevity)

> On 31-Jul-2020, at 1:11 AM, Bobby Shabangu <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Dear Christel,
>
> Congratulations. We will be following developments closely and wishing the
> committee all the best.
>
> Kind regards,
> Bobby Shabangu
>
>> On Thu, 30 Jul 2020 at 20:24, Peter Southwood <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Christel,
>> I wish the committee well, and success in coming up with a workable
>> policy. This is fine as long as no assumption is made that these people
>> represent the communities in any way other than for themselves. They may be
>> fine people and may even have excellent ideas and skills suited to the
>> task, but they are not our representatives, and we expect to be consulted
>> regarding the results of this work. I understand that this may be your
>> intention anyway, but we have seen too many fiascos  resulting from a small
>> group of people coming up with some proposal and WMF declaring this to be
>> "movement policy" or something to that effect.
>> Cheers,
>> Peter
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:[hidden email]] On
>> Behalf Of Christel Steigenberger
>> Sent: 30 July 2020 19:49
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Universal Code of Conduct Drafting Committee -
>> Call for participation
>>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>>
>> We are happy to announce that the Universal Code of Conduct drafting
>> committee has been assembled. We had 26 volunteers apply, either by
>> publicly signing up on the Meta page, or by sending an email. Volunteers
>> from 18 different countries applied, speaking 11 different languages.
>>
>> We had Wikimedian applicants with different levels of experience on-wiki,
>> from someone who started editing only last year to people who have been
>> editing for more than 18 years and/or have more than 300,000 edits.
>> Applicants held a variety of different roles within the movement, and also
>> informed us about interesting and relevant experiences in their real-life
>> careers. It was very hard to narrow down from this diverse and extremely
>> qualified pool of applicants.
>>
>> For the final selection, two aspects guided the decision making - we want a
>> committee that at the one hand will represent important parts of the
>> movement. Prolific editors as well as Wikimedians whose strength is more in
>> organizing events, wikimedians from different demographics, contributors
>> from small and large wikis, and people holding different roles within the
>> movement. We also wanted a group of people who will collaborate with one
>> another effectively and create the best possible Universal Code of Conduct
>> for the Wikimedia movement. Experience has taught us that committees that
>> are too large find it difficult to work effectively, so we decided to cap
>> the number of seats to 6 volunteer seats and 3 staff seats.
>>
>> More information on the Committee and its new members can be found on Meta
>> <
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee
>>>
>> [1], and a timeline for their work is available on the main UCoC page
>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct> [2]. Please
>> note that more chances for engagement are coming up during the community
>> draft review period starting from August 24.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Christel
>>
>>  [1]
>>
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee
>>
>> [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct
>>
>> Christel Steigenberger (she/her)
>>
>> Trust and Safety Specialist
>>
>> Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>> New messages to: [hidden email]
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>>
>> --
>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>> https://www.avg.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>> New messages to: [hidden email]
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Universal Code of Conduct Drafting Committee - Call for participation

Todd Allen
In reply to this post by Christel Steigenberger
Uh, guys?

That was a firm "No" on any Universal Code of Conduct. There shouldn't be a
"drafting committee" for it, it was disapproved.

Todd

On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 11:49 AM Christel Steigenberger <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
>
> We are happy to announce that the Universal Code of Conduct drafting
> committee has been assembled. We had 26 volunteers apply, either by
> publicly signing up on the Meta page, or by sending an email. Volunteers
> from 18 different countries applied, speaking 11 different languages.
>
> We had Wikimedian applicants with different levels of experience on-wiki,
> from someone who started editing only last year to people who have been
> editing for more than 18 years and/or have more than 300,000 edits.
> Applicants held a variety of different roles within the movement, and also
> informed us about interesting and relevant experiences in their real-life
> careers. It was very hard to narrow down from this diverse and extremely
> qualified pool of applicants.
>
> For the final selection, two aspects guided the decision making - we want a
> committee that at the one hand will represent important parts of the
> movement. Prolific editors as well as Wikimedians whose strength is more in
> organizing events, wikimedians from different demographics, contributors
> from small and large wikis, and people holding different roles within the
> movement. We also wanted a group of people who will collaborate with one
> another effectively and create the best possible Universal Code of Conduct
> for the Wikimedia movement. Experience has taught us that committees that
> are too large find it difficult to work effectively, so we decided to cap
> the number of seats to 6 volunteer seats and 3 staff seats.
>
> More information on the Committee and its new members can be found on Meta
> <
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee
> >
> [1], and a timeline for their work is available on the main UCoC page
> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct> [2]. Please
> note that more chances for engagement are coming up during the community
> draft review period starting from August 24.
>
> Best regards,
> Christel
>
>   [1]
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee
>
> [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct
>
> Christel Steigenberger (she/her)
>
> Trust and Safety Specialist
>
> Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Universal Code of Conduct Drafting Committee - Call for participation

Dan Garry (Deskana)
On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 at 15:29, Todd Allen <[hidden email]> wrote:

> That was a firm "No" on any Universal Code of Conduct. There shouldn't be a
> "drafting committee" for it, it was disapproved.
>

It's not clear to me what you're referring to here. What is the "that" that
was a "firm no"?

Dan
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Universal Code of Conduct Drafting Committee - Call for participation

Anders Wennersten-2
In reply to this post by Todd Allen
The development of the Code of Conduct is part of the Strategy. The
strategy and this part was endorsed by some 700 individuals representing
more or less all parts of the Movement. And that group is the closest we
have seen resembling a government body of the movement. But as in a
democracy, even if the parliament is unanimous in a decision, it does
not mean all citizens, or even groups of citizens, agree. But is the
best way we know how to come to a decision.

And how to implent it is still open, and will most likely involve all
parties being effected by it

Anders

Den 2020-07-31 kl. 16:28, skrev Todd Allen:

> Uh, guys?
>
> That was a firm "No" on any Universal Code of Conduct. There shouldn't be a
> "drafting committee" for it, it was disapproved.
>
> Todd
>
> On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 11:49 AM Christel Steigenberger <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>>
>> We are happy to announce that the Universal Code of Conduct drafting
>> committee has been assembled. We had 26 volunteers apply, either by
>> publicly signing up on the Meta page, or by sending an email. Volunteers
>> from 18 different countries applied, speaking 11 different languages.
>>
>> We had Wikimedian applicants with different levels of experience on-wiki,
>> from someone who started editing only last year to people who have been
>> editing for more than 18 years and/or have more than 300,000 edits.
>> Applicants held a variety of different roles within the movement, and also
>> informed us about interesting and relevant experiences in their real-life
>> careers. It was very hard to narrow down from this diverse and extremely
>> qualified pool of applicants.
>>
>> For the final selection, two aspects guided the decision making - we want a
>> committee that at the one hand will represent important parts of the
>> movement. Prolific editors as well as Wikimedians whose strength is more in
>> organizing events, wikimedians from different demographics, contributors
>> from small and large wikis, and people holding different roles within the
>> movement. We also wanted a group of people who will collaborate with one
>> another effectively and create the best possible Universal Code of Conduct
>> for the Wikimedia movement. Experience has taught us that committees that
>> are too large find it difficult to work effectively, so we decided to cap
>> the number of seats to 6 volunteer seats and 3 staff seats.
>>
>> More information on the Committee and its new members can be found on Meta
>> <
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee
>> [1], and a timeline for their work is available on the main UCoC page
>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct> [2]. Please
>> note that more chances for engagement are coming up during the community
>> draft review period starting from August 24.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Christel
>>
>>    [1]
>>
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee
>>
>> [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct
>>
>> Christel Steigenberger (she/her)
>>
>> Trust and Safety Specialist
>>
>> Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>> New messages to: [hidden email]
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Universal Code of Conduct Drafting Committee - Call for participation

Todd Allen
Where was the public RfC that these "700 individuals" participated in? The
one I saw, which took place on Meta, was, again, a very firm "No".

Off-wiki backchanneling stuff doesn't count.

Todd

On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 9:18 AM Anders Wennersten <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> The development of the Code of Conduct is part of the Strategy. The
> strategy and this part was endorsed by some 700 individuals representing
> more or less all parts of the Movement. And that group is the closest we
> have seen resembling a government body of the movement. But as in a
> democracy, even if the parliament is unanimous in a decision, it does
> not mean all citizens, or even groups of citizens, agree. But is the
> best way we know how to come to a decision.
>
> And how to implent it is still open, and will most likely involve all
> parties being effected by it
>
> Anders
>
> Den 2020-07-31 kl. 16:28, skrev Todd Allen:
> > Uh, guys?
> >
> > That was a firm "No" on any Universal Code of Conduct. There shouldn't
> be a
> > "drafting committee" for it, it was disapproved.
> >
> > Todd
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 11:49 AM Christel Steigenberger <
> > [hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >> Hello everyone,
> >>
> >>
> >> We are happy to announce that the Universal Code of Conduct drafting
> >> committee has been assembled. We had 26 volunteers apply, either by
> >> publicly signing up on the Meta page, or by sending an email. Volunteers
> >> from 18 different countries applied, speaking 11 different languages.
> >>
> >> We had Wikimedian applicants with different levels of experience
> on-wiki,
> >> from someone who started editing only last year to people who have been
> >> editing for more than 18 years and/or have more than 300,000 edits.
> >> Applicants held a variety of different roles within the movement, and
> also
> >> informed us about interesting and relevant experiences in their
> real-life
> >> careers. It was very hard to narrow down from this diverse and extremely
> >> qualified pool of applicants.
> >>
> >> For the final selection, two aspects guided the decision making - we
> want a
> >> committee that at the one hand will represent important parts of the
> >> movement. Prolific editors as well as Wikimedians whose strength is
> more in
> >> organizing events, wikimedians from different demographics, contributors
> >> from small and large wikis, and people holding different roles within
> the
> >> movement. We also wanted a group of people who will collaborate with one
> >> another effectively and create the best possible Universal Code of
> Conduct
> >> for the Wikimedia movement. Experience has taught us that committees
> that
> >> are too large find it difficult to work effectively, so we decided to
> cap
> >> the number of seats to 6 volunteer seats and 3 staff seats.
> >>
> >> More information on the Committee and its new members can be found on
> Meta
> >> <
> >>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee
> >> [1], and a timeline for their work is available on the main UCoC page
> >> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct> [2]. Please
> >> note that more chances for engagement are coming up during the community
> >> draft review period starting from August 24.
> >>
> >> Best regards,
> >> Christel
> >>
> >>    [1]
> >>
> >>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee
> >>
> >> [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct
> >>
> >> Christel Steigenberger (she/her)
> >>
> >> Trust and Safety Specialist
> >>
> >> Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> >> New messages to: [hidden email]
> >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> >> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
> _______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Universal Code of Conduct Drafting Committee - Call for participation

Anders Wennersten-2
Read https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20 
and people involved supporting it and endorsing its different phases

Anders

Den 2020-07-31 kl. 17:28, skrev Todd Allen:

> Where was the public RfC that these "700 individuals" participated in? The
> one I saw, which took place on Meta, was, again, a very firm "No".
>
> Off-wiki backchanneling stuff doesn't count.
>
> Todd
>
> On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 9:18 AM Anders Wennersten <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> The development of the Code of Conduct is part of the Strategy. The
>> strategy and this part was endorsed by some 700 individuals representing
>> more or less all parts of the Movement. And that group is the closest we
>> have seen resembling a government body of the movement. But as in a
>> democracy, even if the parliament is unanimous in a decision, it does
>> not mean all citizens, or even groups of citizens, agree. But is the
>> best way we know how to come to a decision.
>>
>> And how to implent it is still open, and will most likely involve all
>> parties being effected by it
>>
>> Anders
>>
>> Den 2020-07-31 kl. 16:28, skrev Todd Allen:
>>> Uh, guys?
>>>
>>> That was a firm "No" on any Universal Code of Conduct. There shouldn't
>> be a
>>> "drafting committee" for it, it was disapproved.
>>>
>>> Todd
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 11:49 AM Christel Steigenberger <
>>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We are happy to announce that the Universal Code of Conduct drafting
>>>> committee has been assembled. We had 26 volunteers apply, either by
>>>> publicly signing up on the Meta page, or by sending an email. Volunteers
>>>> from 18 different countries applied, speaking 11 different languages.
>>>>
>>>> We had Wikimedian applicants with different levels of experience
>> on-wiki,
>>>> from someone who started editing only last year to people who have been
>>>> editing for more than 18 years and/or have more than 300,000 edits.
>>>> Applicants held a variety of different roles within the movement, and
>> also
>>>> informed us about interesting and relevant experiences in their
>> real-life
>>>> careers. It was very hard to narrow down from this diverse and extremely
>>>> qualified pool of applicants.
>>>>
>>>> For the final selection, two aspects guided the decision making - we
>> want a
>>>> committee that at the one hand will represent important parts of the
>>>> movement. Prolific editors as well as Wikimedians whose strength is
>> more in
>>>> organizing events, wikimedians from different demographics, contributors
>>>> from small and large wikis, and people holding different roles within
>> the
>>>> movement. We also wanted a group of people who will collaborate with one
>>>> another effectively and create the best possible Universal Code of
>> Conduct
>>>> for the Wikimedia movement. Experience has taught us that committees
>> that
>>>> are too large find it difficult to work effectively, so we decided to
>> cap
>>>> the number of seats to 6 volunteer seats and 3 staff seats.
>>>>
>>>> More information on the Committee and its new members can be found on
>> Meta
>>>> <
>>>>
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee
>>>> [1], and a timeline for their work is available on the main UCoC page
>>>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct> [2]. Please
>>>> note that more chances for engagement are coming up during the community
>>>> draft review period starting from August 24.
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>> Christel
>>>>
>>>>     [1]
>>>>
>>>>
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee
>>>> [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct
>>>>
>>>> Christel Steigenberger (she/her)
>>>>
>>>> Trust and Safety Specialist
>>>>
>>>> Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>>>> New messages to: [hidden email]
>>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>>>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>>> New messages to: [hidden email]
>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>> New messages to: [hidden email]
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
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> New messages to: [hidden email]
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Universal Code of Conduct Drafting Committee - Call for participation

Todd Allen
In reply to this post by Dan Garry (Deskana)
It was a "no" to having any type of universal code of conduct. You can see
the discussion here:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Recommendations/Iteration_1/Diversity/9#Terms_of_Use_for_the_WMF

On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 8:57 AM Dan Garry (Deskana) <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 at 15:29, Todd Allen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > That was a firm "No" on any Universal Code of Conduct. There shouldn't
> be a
> > "drafting committee" for it, it was disapproved.
> >
>
> It's not clear to me what you're referring to here. What is the "that" that
> was a "firm no"?
>
> Dan
> _______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Universal Code of Conduct Drafting Committee - Call for participation

Todd Allen
In reply to this post by Anders Wennersten-2
I have read that, but do not see any public RfC nor any individual
statements.

Todd

On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 9:34 AM Anders Wennersten <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Read https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20
> and people involved supporting it and endorsing its different phases
>
> Anders
>
> Den 2020-07-31 kl. 17:28, skrev Todd Allen:
> > Where was the public RfC that these "700 individuals" participated in?
> The
> > one I saw, which took place on Meta, was, again, a very firm "No".
> >
> > Off-wiki backchanneling stuff doesn't count.
> >
> > Todd
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 9:18 AM Anders Wennersten <
> [hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> The development of the Code of Conduct is part of the Strategy. The
> >> strategy and this part was endorsed by some 700 individuals representing
> >> more or less all parts of the Movement. And that group is the closest we
> >> have seen resembling a government body of the movement. But as in a
> >> democracy, even if the parliament is unanimous in a decision, it does
> >> not mean all citizens, or even groups of citizens, agree. But is the
> >> best way we know how to come to a decision.
> >>
> >> And how to implent it is still open, and will most likely involve all
> >> parties being effected by it
> >>
> >> Anders
> >>
> >> Den 2020-07-31 kl. 16:28, skrev Todd Allen:
> >>> Uh, guys?
> >>>
> >>> That was a firm "No" on any Universal Code of Conduct. There shouldn't
> >> be a
> >>> "drafting committee" for it, it was disapproved.
> >>>
> >>> Todd
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 11:49 AM Christel Steigenberger <
> >>> [hidden email]> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Hello everyone,
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> We are happy to announce that the Universal Code of Conduct drafting
> >>>> committee has been assembled. We had 26 volunteers apply, either by
> >>>> publicly signing up on the Meta page, or by sending an email.
> Volunteers
> >>>> from 18 different countries applied, speaking 11 different languages.
> >>>>
> >>>> We had Wikimedian applicants with different levels of experience
> >> on-wiki,
> >>>> from someone who started editing only last year to people who have
> been
> >>>> editing for more than 18 years and/or have more than 300,000 edits.
> >>>> Applicants held a variety of different roles within the movement, and
> >> also
> >>>> informed us about interesting and relevant experiences in their
> >> real-life
> >>>> careers. It was very hard to narrow down from this diverse and
> extremely
> >>>> qualified pool of applicants.
> >>>>
> >>>> For the final selection, two aspects guided the decision making - we
> >> want a
> >>>> committee that at the one hand will represent important parts of the
> >>>> movement. Prolific editors as well as Wikimedians whose strength is
> >> more in
> >>>> organizing events, wikimedians from different demographics,
> contributors
> >>>> from small and large wikis, and people holding different roles within
> >> the
> >>>> movement. We also wanted a group of people who will collaborate with
> one
> >>>> another effectively and create the best possible Universal Code of
> >> Conduct
> >>>> for the Wikimedia movement. Experience has taught us that committees
> >> that
> >>>> are too large find it difficult to work effectively, so we decided to
> >> cap
> >>>> the number of seats to 6 volunteer seats and 3 staff seats.
> >>>>
> >>>> More information on the Committee and its new members can be found on
> >> Meta
> >>>> <
> >>>>
> >>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee
> >>>> [1], and a timeline for their work is available on the main UCoC page
> >>>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct> [2].
> Please
> >>>> note that more chances for engagement are coming up during the
> community
> >>>> draft review period starting from August 24.
> >>>>
> >>>> Best regards,
> >>>> Christel
> >>>>
> >>>>     [1]
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee
> >>>> [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct
> >>>>
> >>>> Christel Steigenberger (she/her)
> >>>>
> >>>> Trust and Safety Specialist
> >>>>
> >>>> Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> >>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> >>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> >>>> New messages to: [hidden email]
> >>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> ,
> >>>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> >>> New messages to: [hidden email]
> >>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> >> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
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> >> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Universal Code of Conduct Drafting Committee - Call for participation

Christel Steigenberger
In reply to this post by Christel Steigenberger
Hi Peter,

I hear and understand your worries. I’d like to reassure you that we are
very aware of the fact that no single person and no selected group of
people can speak for the community as a whole. This is one of the big
challenges all such efforts have to tackle. Representation here is not
meant in the sense of legal or political representation. But by speaking
for themselves, we hope that volunteers and staff coming from different
language communities, holding different roles within the movement and
bringing different experiences of engagement with the movement into the
process will at least bring diverse valuable perspectives to the creation
of the draft for the Universal Code of Conduct.

Before they start drafting, they are already now working their way through
a reading kit which will make them familiar with the input from the
movement strategy process as well as prior community consultations our team
has done at regional Wikimedia conferences and Wikimania as well as through
facilitated conversations with 19 different language communities. The data
is published on Meta here
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Community_feedback_at_conferences
and here
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Initial_2020_Consultations.
This community feedback will inform the drafting process.

This draft will then be brought to the communities for review starting
August 24, as outlined in the timeline here:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct#Timeline. We are
still looking for ways to make more people aware of this important part of
the process. Please spread the word of this upcoming community comment
period, to help us get wider participation!

I hope the above makes sense to you, looking forward to your engagement
with the draft end of August and in September,

Christel Steigenberger (she/her)

Trust and Safety Specialist

Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Universal Code of Conduct Drafting Committee - Call for participation

Anders Wennersten-2
In reply to this post by Todd Allen
If you choose to not take active part in he strategy process it it your
privilege.  But the fact is that the Strategy is the steering document
now for the nearest activities in the Movement. And the endorsments are
there to be read.

If you had wanted the endorsement to be visible in the form of a Rfc,
you missed to express that in an appropriate  moment.

Anders

(This being my third entry, it will be my last)



Den 2020-07-31 kl. 17:38, skrev Todd Allen:

> I have read that, but do not see any public RfC nor any individual
> statements.
>
> Todd
>
> On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 9:34 AM Anders Wennersten <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> Read https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20
>> and people involved supporting it and endorsing its different phases
>>
>> Anders
>>
>> Den 2020-07-31 kl. 17:28, skrev Todd Allen:
>>> Where was the public RfC that these "700 individuals" participated in?
>> The
>>> one I saw, which took place on Meta, was, again, a very firm "No".
>>>
>>> Off-wiki backchanneling stuff doesn't count.
>>>
>>> Todd
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 9:18 AM Anders Wennersten <
>> [hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The development of the Code of Conduct is part of the Strategy. The
>>>> strategy and this part was endorsed by some 700 individuals representing
>>>> more or less all parts of the Movement. And that group is the closest we
>>>> have seen resembling a government body of the movement. But as in a
>>>> democracy, even if the parliament is unanimous in a decision, it does
>>>> not mean all citizens, or even groups of citizens, agree. But is the
>>>> best way we know how to come to a decision.
>>>>
>>>> And how to implent it is still open, and will most likely involve all
>>>> parties being effected by it
>>>>
>>>> Anders
>>>>
>>>> Den 2020-07-31 kl. 16:28, skrev Todd Allen:
>>>>> Uh, guys?
>>>>>
>>>>> That was a firm "No" on any Universal Code of Conduct. There shouldn't
>>>> be a
>>>>> "drafting committee" for it, it was disapproved.
>>>>>
>>>>> Todd
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 11:49 AM Christel Steigenberger <
>>>>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We are happy to announce that the Universal Code of Conduct drafting
>>>>>> committee has been assembled. We had 26 volunteers apply, either by
>>>>>> publicly signing up on the Meta page, or by sending an email.
>> Volunteers
>>>>>> from 18 different countries applied, speaking 11 different languages.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We had Wikimedian applicants with different levels of experience
>>>> on-wiki,
>>>>>> from someone who started editing only last year to people who have
>> been
>>>>>> editing for more than 18 years and/or have more than 300,000 edits.
>>>>>> Applicants held a variety of different roles within the movement, and
>>>> also
>>>>>> informed us about interesting and relevant experiences in their
>>>> real-life
>>>>>> careers. It was very hard to narrow down from this diverse and
>> extremely
>>>>>> qualified pool of applicants.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For the final selection, two aspects guided the decision making - we
>>>> want a
>>>>>> committee that at the one hand will represent important parts of the
>>>>>> movement. Prolific editors as well as Wikimedians whose strength is
>>>> more in
>>>>>> organizing events, wikimedians from different demographics,
>> contributors
>>>>>> from small and large wikis, and people holding different roles within
>>>> the
>>>>>> movement. We also wanted a group of people who will collaborate with
>> one
>>>>>> another effectively and create the best possible Universal Code of
>>>> Conduct
>>>>>> for the Wikimedia movement. Experience has taught us that committees
>>>> that
>>>>>> are too large find it difficult to work effectively, so we decided to
>>>> cap
>>>>>> the number of seats to 6 volunteer seats and 3 staff seats.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> More information on the Committee and its new members can be found on
>>>> Meta
>>>>>> <
>>>>>>
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee
>>>>>> [1], and a timeline for their work is available on the main UCoC page
>>>>>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct> [2].
>> Please
>>>>>> note that more chances for engagement are coming up during the
>> community
>>>>>> draft review period starting from August 24.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>> Christel
>>>>>>
>>>>>>      [1]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee
>>>>>> [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Christel Steigenberger (she/her)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Trust and Safety Specialist
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>>>>>> New messages to: [hidden email]
>>>>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
>> ,
>>>>>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>>>>> New messages to: [hidden email]
>>>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>>>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>>>> New messages to: [hidden email]
>>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>>>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>>> New messages to: [hidden email]
>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>> New messages to: [hidden email]
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
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> New messages to: [hidden email]
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Universal Code of Conduct Drafting Committee - Call for participation

Yaroslav Blanter
It is known and widely recognized that online communities were excluded
from the strategy process. There was no way one could open RfC on the
process, and no approval of the strategy by the editing communities.

This has to be fixed now. It is difficult to fix, because there are already
too many boundary conditions attached, and I am personally trying to do
whatever I can as a member of the transition strategy group.

On the other hand, there was no real RfC rejecting the UCoC (at least I am
not aware of one), even though many users, in particular, on the English
Wikipedia in relation to the Fram affair, were very vocal about this. But
people become vocal about many things, some of them, for example, continue
to advocate that we should fork from the existing project and this forking
is the only way forward. People say many things, and we have community
processes to see what is consensus and what is not.

In the current situation, specifically concerning UCoC, is to wait for the
draft / drafting principle, whatever comes on 24 august. If many people
think the product is not acceptable they should open RfC on meta or on the
projects and see whether there is consensus it is unacceptable. For these
RfCs to happen, but for this people should really follow the process, read
the draft and see what the consequences are. If online communities are not
involved in this process either, then things will go over and over again -
UCOc accepted as proposed, included into ToU, followed by a couple of
high-profile bans, shistorm in the most active communities, and complete
denial by WMF managers. We have been there and we do not want this
happening again.

Best
Yaroslav

On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 5:55 PM Anders Wennersten <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> If you choose to not take active part in he strategy process it it your
> privilege.  But the fact is that the Strategy is the steering document
> now for the nearest activities in the Movement. And the endorsments are
> there to be read.
>
> If you had wanted the endorsement to be visible in the form of a Rfc,
> you missed to express that in an appropriate  moment.
>
> Anders
>
> (This being my third entry, it will be my last)
>
>
>
> Den 2020-07-31 kl. 17:38, skrev Todd Allen:
> > I have read that, but do not see any public RfC nor any individual
> > statements.
> >
> > Todd
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 9:34 AM Anders Wennersten <
> [hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Read
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20
> >> and people involved supporting it and endorsing its different phases
> >>
> >> Anders
> >>
> >> Den 2020-07-31 kl. 17:28, skrev Todd Allen:
> >>> Where was the public RfC that these "700 individuals" participated in?
> >> The
> >>> one I saw, which took place on Meta, was, again, a very firm "No".
> >>>
> >>> Off-wiki backchanneling stuff doesn't count.
> >>>
> >>> Todd
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 9:18 AM Anders Wennersten <
> >> [hidden email]>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> The development of the Code of Conduct is part of the Strategy. The
> >>>> strategy and this part was endorsed by some 700 individuals
> representing
> >>>> more or less all parts of the Movement. And that group is the closest
> we
> >>>> have seen resembling a government body of the movement. But as in a
> >>>> democracy, even if the parliament is unanimous in a decision, it does
> >>>> not mean all citizens, or even groups of citizens, agree. But is the
> >>>> best way we know how to come to a decision.
> >>>>
> >>>> And how to implent it is still open, and will most likely involve all
> >>>> parties being effected by it
> >>>>
> >>>> Anders
> >>>>
> >>>> Den 2020-07-31 kl. 16:28, skrev Todd Allen:
> >>>>> Uh, guys?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> That was a firm "No" on any Universal Code of Conduct. There
> shouldn't
> >>>> be a
> >>>>> "drafting committee" for it, it was disapproved.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Todd
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 11:49 AM Christel Steigenberger <
> >>>>> [hidden email]> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Hello everyone,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> We are happy to announce that the Universal Code of Conduct drafting
> >>>>>> committee has been assembled. We had 26 volunteers apply, either by
> >>>>>> publicly signing up on the Meta page, or by sending an email.
> >> Volunteers
> >>>>>> from 18 different countries applied, speaking 11 different
> languages.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> We had Wikimedian applicants with different levels of experience
> >>>> on-wiki,
> >>>>>> from someone who started editing only last year to people who have
> >> been
> >>>>>> editing for more than 18 years and/or have more than 300,000 edits.
> >>>>>> Applicants held a variety of different roles within the movement,
> and
> >>>> also
> >>>>>> informed us about interesting and relevant experiences in their
> >>>> real-life
> >>>>>> careers. It was very hard to narrow down from this diverse and
> >> extremely
> >>>>>> qualified pool of applicants.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> For the final selection, two aspects guided the decision making - we
> >>>> want a
> >>>>>> committee that at the one hand will represent important parts of the
> >>>>>> movement. Prolific editors as well as Wikimedians whose strength is
> >>>> more in
> >>>>>> organizing events, wikimedians from different demographics,
> >> contributors
> >>>>>> from small and large wikis, and people holding different roles
> within
> >>>> the
> >>>>>> movement. We also wanted a group of people who will collaborate with
> >> one
> >>>>>> another effectively and create the best possible Universal Code of
> >>>> Conduct
> >>>>>> for the Wikimedia movement. Experience has taught us that committees
> >>>> that
> >>>>>> are too large find it difficult to work effectively, so we decided
> to
> >>>> cap
> >>>>>> the number of seats to 6 volunteer seats and 3 staff seats.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> More information on the Committee and its new members can be found
> on
> >>>> Meta
> >>>>>> <
> >>>>>>
> >>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee
> >>>>>> [1], and a timeline for their work is available on the main UCoC
> page
> >>>>>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct> [2].
> >> Please
> >>>>>> note that more chances for engagement are coming up during the
> >> community
> >>>>>> draft review period starting from August 24.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Best regards,
> >>>>>> Christel
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>      [1]
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee
> >>>>>> [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Christel Steigenberger (she/her)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Trust and Safety Specialist
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> >>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> >>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> >>>>>> New messages to: [hidden email]
> >>>>>> Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> >> ,
> >>>>>> <mailto:[hidden email]
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> >>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> >>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> >>>>> New messages to: [hidden email]
> >>>>> Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> >>>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> >>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> >>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> >>>> New messages to: [hidden email]
> >>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> ,
> >>>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> >>> New messages to: [hidden email]
> >>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> >> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> >> New messages to: [hidden email]
> >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> >> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Universal Code of Conduct Drafting Committee - Call for participation

Aron Manning
As firmly endorsed by 41 community members (out of thousands) in the ToU
for WMF
<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Recommendations/Iteration_1/Diversity/9#Terms_of_Use_for_the_WMF>
discussion,
I think we can agree that the Terms of Use (and also the Code of Conduct)
should apply to WMF employees as well, not just volunteers.

However, I don't see how from that it could be inferred that there should
be no Code of Conduct for the communities.
I believe that the important question is how the CoC will be implemented:
will it be a tool for silencing unwanted POVs or a tool for addressing
toxicity?


Just my thoughts.
Aron



On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 at 18:11, Yaroslav Blanter <[hidden email]> wrote:

> It is known and widely recognized that online communities were excluded
> from the strategy process. There was no way one could open RfC on the
> process, and no approval of the strategy by the editing communities.
>
> This has to be fixed now. It is difficult to fix, because there are already
> too many boundary conditions attached, and I am personally trying to do
> whatever I can as a member of the transition strategy group.
>
> On the other hand, there was no real RfC rejecting the UCoC (at least I am
> not aware of one), even though many users, in particular, on the English
> Wikipedia in relation to the Fram affair, were very vocal about this. But
> people become vocal about many things, some of them, for example, continue
> to advocate that we should fork from the existing project and this forking
> is the only way forward. People say many things, and we have community
> processes to see what is consensus and what is not.
>
> In the current situation, specifically concerning UCoC, is to wait for the
> draft / drafting principle, whatever comes on 24 august. If many people
> think the product is not acceptable they should open RfC on meta or on the
> projects and see whether there is consensus it is unacceptable. For these
> RfCs to happen, but for this people should really follow the process, read
> the draft and see what the consequences are. If online communities are not
> involved in this process either, then things will go over and over again -
> UCOc accepted as proposed, included into ToU, followed by a couple of
> high-profile bans, shistorm in the most active communities, and complete
> denial by WMF managers. We have been there and we do not want this
> happening again.
>
> Best
> Yaroslav
>
> On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 5:55 PM Anders Wennersten <
> [hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > If you choose to not take active part in he strategy process it it your
> > privilege.  But the fact is that the Strategy is the steering document
> > now for the nearest activities in the Movement. And the endorsments are
> > there to be read.
> >
> > If you had wanted the endorsement to be visible in the form of a Rfc,
> > you missed to express that in an appropriate  moment.
> >
> > Anders
> >
> > (This being my third entry, it will be my last)
> >
> >
> >
> > Den 2020-07-31 kl. 17:38, skrev Todd Allen:
> > > I have read that, but do not see any public RfC nor any individual
> > > statements.
> > >
> > > Todd
> > >
> > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 9:34 AM Anders Wennersten <
> > [hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> Read
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20
> > >> and people involved supporting it and endorsing its different phases
> > >>
> > >> Anders
> > >>
> > >> Den 2020-07-31 kl. 17:28, skrev Todd Allen:
> > >>> Where was the public RfC that these "700 individuals" participated
> in?
> > >> The
> > >>> one I saw, which took place on Meta, was, again, a very firm "No".
> > >>>
> > >>> Off-wiki backchanneling stuff doesn't count.
> > >>>
> > >>> Todd
> > >>>
> > >>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 9:18 AM Anders Wennersten <
> > >> [hidden email]>
> > >>> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> The development of the Code of Conduct is part of the Strategy. The
> > >>>> strategy and this part was endorsed by some 700 individuals
> > representing
> > >>>> more or less all parts of the Movement. And that group is the
> closest
> > we
> > >>>> have seen resembling a government body of the movement. But as in a
> > >>>> democracy, even if the parliament is unanimous in a decision, it
> does
> > >>>> not mean all citizens, or even groups of citizens, agree. But is the
> > >>>> best way we know how to come to a decision.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> And how to implent it is still open, and will most likely involve
> all
> > >>>> parties being effected by it
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Anders
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Den 2020-07-31 kl. 16:28, skrev Todd Allen:
> > >>>>> Uh, guys?
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> That was a firm "No" on any Universal Code of Conduct. There
> > shouldn't
> > >>>> be a
> > >>>>> "drafting committee" for it, it was disapproved.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Todd
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 11:49 AM Christel Steigenberger <
> > >>>>> [hidden email]> wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> Hello everyone,
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> We are happy to announce that the Universal Code of Conduct
> drafting
> > >>>>>> committee has been assembled. We had 26 volunteers apply, either
> by
> > >>>>>> publicly signing up on the Meta page, or by sending an email.
> > >> Volunteers
> > >>>>>> from 18 different countries applied, speaking 11 different
> > languages.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> We had Wikimedian applicants with different levels of experience
> > >>>> on-wiki,
> > >>>>>> from someone who started editing only last year to people who have
> > >> been
> > >>>>>> editing for more than 18 years and/or have more than 300,000
> edits.
> > >>>>>> Applicants held a variety of different roles within the movement,
> > and
> > >>>> also
> > >>>>>> informed us about interesting and relevant experiences in their
> > >>>> real-life
> > >>>>>> careers. It was very hard to narrow down from this diverse and
> > >> extremely
> > >>>>>> qualified pool of applicants.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> For the final selection, two aspects guided the decision making -
> we
> > >>>> want a
> > >>>>>> committee that at the one hand will represent important parts of
> the
> > >>>>>> movement. Prolific editors as well as Wikimedians whose strength
> is
> > >>>> more in
> > >>>>>> organizing events, wikimedians from different demographics,
> > >> contributors
> > >>>>>> from small and large wikis, and people holding different roles
> > within
> > >>>> the
> > >>>>>> movement. We also wanted a group of people who will collaborate
> with
> > >> one
> > >>>>>> another effectively and create the best possible Universal Code of
> > >>>> Conduct
> > >>>>>> for the Wikimedia movement. Experience has taught us that
> committees
> > >>>> that
> > >>>>>> are too large find it difficult to work effectively, so we decided
> > to
> > >>>> cap
> > >>>>>> the number of seats to 6 volunteer seats and 3 staff seats.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> More information on the Committee and its new members can be found
> > on
> > >>>> Meta
> > >>>>>> <
> > >>>>>>
> > >>
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee
> > >>>>>> [1], and a timeline for their work is available on the main UCoC
> > page
> > >>>>>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct> [2].
> > >> Please
> > >>>>>> note that more chances for engagement are coming up during the
> > >> community
> > >>>>>> draft review period starting from August 24.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Best regards,
> > >>>>>> Christel
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>      [1]
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee
> > >>>>>> [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Christel Steigenberger (she/her)
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Trust and Safety Specialist
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > >>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > >>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > >>>>>> New messages to: [hidden email]
> > >>>>>> Unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > >> ,
> > >>>>>> <mailto:[hidden email]
> > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >>>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > >>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > >>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > >>>>> New messages to: [hidden email]
> > >>>>> Unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > >>>> <mailto:[hidden email]
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > >>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > >>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > >>>> New messages to: [hidden email]
> > >>>> Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > ,
> > >>>> <mailto:[hidden email]
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > >>> New messages to: [hidden email]
> > >>> Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > >> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > >> New messages to: [hidden email]
> > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> ,
> > >> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Universal Code of Conduct Drafting Committee - Call for participation

Ciell Wikipedia
Hi,

Since this is about a Universal Code of Conduct, please do not focus this
thread on the English language Wikipedia alone.

Ciell

Op vr 31 jul. 2020 18:25 schreef Aron Manning <[hidden email]>:

> As firmly endorsed by 41 community members (out of thousands) in the ToU
> for WMF
> <
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Recommendations/Iteration_1/Diversity/9#Terms_of_Use_for_the_WMF
> >
> discussion,
> I think we can agree that the Terms of Use (and also the Code of Conduct)
> should apply to WMF employees as well, not just volunteers.
>
> However, I don't see how from that it could be inferred that there should
> be no Code of Conduct for the communities.
> I believe that the important question is how the CoC will be implemented:
> will it be a tool for silencing unwanted POVs or a tool for addressing
> toxicity?
>
>
> Just my thoughts.
> Aron
>
>
>
> On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 at 18:11, Yaroslav Blanter <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > It is known and widely recognized that online communities were excluded
> > from the strategy process. There was no way one could open RfC on the
> > process, and no approval of the strategy by the editing communities.
> >
> > This has to be fixed now. It is difficult to fix, because there are
> already
> > too many boundary conditions attached, and I am personally trying to do
> > whatever I can as a member of the transition strategy group.
> >
> > On the other hand, there was no real RfC rejecting the UCoC (at least I
> am
> > not aware of one), even though many users, in particular, on the English
> > Wikipedia in relation to the Fram affair, were very vocal about this. But
> > people become vocal about many things, some of them, for example,
> continue
> > to advocate that we should fork from the existing project and this
> forking
> > is the only way forward. People say many things, and we have community
> > processes to see what is consensus and what is not.
> >
> > In the current situation, specifically concerning UCoC, is to wait for
> the
> > draft / drafting principle, whatever comes on 24 august. If many people
> > think the product is not acceptable they should open RfC on meta or on
> the
> > projects and see whether there is consensus it is unacceptable. For these
> > RfCs to happen, but for this people should really follow the process,
> read
> > the draft and see what the consequences are. If online communities are
> not
> > involved in this process either, then things will go over and over again
> -
> > UCOc accepted as proposed, included into ToU, followed by a couple of
> > high-profile bans, shistorm in the most active communities, and complete
> > denial by WMF managers. We have been there and we do not want this
> > happening again.
> >
> > Best
> > Yaroslav
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 5:55 PM Anders Wennersten <
> > [hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > If you choose to not take active part in he strategy process it it your
> > > privilege.  But the fact is that the Strategy is the steering document
> > > now for the nearest activities in the Movement. And the endorsments are
> > > there to be read.
> > >
> > > If you had wanted the endorsement to be visible in the form of a Rfc,
> > > you missed to express that in an appropriate  moment.
> > >
> > > Anders
> > >
> > > (This being my third entry, it will be my last)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Den 2020-07-31 kl. 17:38, skrev Todd Allen:
> > > > I have read that, but do not see any public RfC nor any individual
> > > > statements.
> > > >
> > > > Todd
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 9:34 AM Anders Wennersten <
> > > [hidden email]>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Read
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20
> > > >> and people involved supporting it and endorsing its different phases
> > > >>
> > > >> Anders
> > > >>
> > > >> Den 2020-07-31 kl. 17:28, skrev Todd Allen:
> > > >>> Where was the public RfC that these "700 individuals" participated
> > in?
> > > >> The
> > > >>> one I saw, which took place on Meta, was, again, a very firm "No".
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Off-wiki backchanneling stuff doesn't count.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Todd
> > > >>>
> > > >>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 9:18 AM Anders Wennersten <
> > > >> [hidden email]>
> > > >>> wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> The development of the Code of Conduct is part of the Strategy.
> The
> > > >>>> strategy and this part was endorsed by some 700 individuals
> > > representing
> > > >>>> more or less all parts of the Movement. And that group is the
> > closest
> > > we
> > > >>>> have seen resembling a government body of the movement. But as in
> a
> > > >>>> democracy, even if the parliament is unanimous in a decision, it
> > does
> > > >>>> not mean all citizens, or even groups of citizens, agree. But is
> the
> > > >>>> best way we know how to come to a decision.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> And how to implent it is still open, and will most likely involve
> > all
> > > >>>> parties being effected by it
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Anders
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Den 2020-07-31 kl. 16:28, skrev Todd Allen:
> > > >>>>> Uh, guys?
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> That was a firm "No" on any Universal Code of Conduct. There
> > > shouldn't
> > > >>>> be a
> > > >>>>> "drafting committee" for it, it was disapproved.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Todd
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 11:49 AM Christel Steigenberger <
> > > >>>>> [hidden email]> wrote:
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>> Hello everyone,
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> We are happy to announce that the Universal Code of Conduct
> > drafting
> > > >>>>>> committee has been assembled. We had 26 volunteers apply, either
> > by
> > > >>>>>> publicly signing up on the Meta page, or by sending an email.
> > > >> Volunteers
> > > >>>>>> from 18 different countries applied, speaking 11 different
> > > languages.
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> We had Wikimedian applicants with different levels of experience
> > > >>>> on-wiki,
> > > >>>>>> from someone who started editing only last year to people who
> have
> > > >> been
> > > >>>>>> editing for more than 18 years and/or have more than 300,000
> > edits.
> > > >>>>>> Applicants held a variety of different roles within the
> movement,
> > > and
> > > >>>> also
> > > >>>>>> informed us about interesting and relevant experiences in their
> > > >>>> real-life
> > > >>>>>> careers. It was very hard to narrow down from this diverse and
> > > >> extremely
> > > >>>>>> qualified pool of applicants.
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> For the final selection, two aspects guided the decision making
> -
> > we
> > > >>>> want a
> > > >>>>>> committee that at the one hand will represent important parts of
> > the
> > > >>>>>> movement. Prolific editors as well as Wikimedians whose strength
> > is
> > > >>>> more in
> > > >>>>>> organizing events, wikimedians from different demographics,
> > > >> contributors
> > > >>>>>> from small and large wikis, and people holding different roles
> > > within
> > > >>>> the
> > > >>>>>> movement. We also wanted a group of people who will collaborate
> > with
> > > >> one
> > > >>>>>> another effectively and create the best possible Universal Code
> of
> > > >>>> Conduct
> > > >>>>>> for the Wikimedia movement. Experience has taught us that
> > committees
> > > >>>> that
> > > >>>>>> are too large find it difficult to work effectively, so we
> decided
> > > to
> > > >>>> cap
> > > >>>>>> the number of seats to 6 volunteer seats and 3 staff seats.
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> More information on the Committee and its new members can be
> found
> > > on
> > > >>>> Meta
> > > >>>>>> <
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee
> > > >>>>>> [1], and a timeline for their work is available on the main UCoC
> > > page
> > > >>>>>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct>
> [2].
> > > >> Please
> > > >>>>>> note that more chances for engagement are coming up during the
> > > >> community
> > > >>>>>> draft review period starting from August 24.
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> Best regards,
> > > >>>>>> Christel
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>      [1]
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee
> > > >>>>>> [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> Christel Steigenberger (she/her)
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> Trust and Safety Specialist
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
> > > >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> > > >>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > >>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > >>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > >>>>>> New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > >>>>>> Unsubscribe:
> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > > >> ,
> > > >>>>>> <mailto:[hidden email]
> > > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > >>>>> _______________________________________________
> > > >>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > >>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > >>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > >>>>> New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > >>>>> Unsubscribe:
> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > >>>> <mailto:[hidden email]
> > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> _______________________________________________
> > > >>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > >>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > >>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > >>>> New messages to: [hidden email]
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> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
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> > > >>>> <mailto:[hidden email]
> > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > >>> _______________________________________________
> > > >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > >>> New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > >>> Unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
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> > > >>
> > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
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> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > ,
> > > >> <mailto:[hidden email]
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
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> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
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> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
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> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Universal Code of Conduct Drafting Committee - Call for participation

Todd Allen
Hello Ciell,

These discussions took place on meta, not on en.wp. I don't believe anyone
has brought up the English Wikipedia in particular.

Todd

On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 11:08 AM Ciell Wikipedia <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Since this is about a Universal Code of Conduct, please do not focus this
> thread on the English language Wikipedia alone.
>
> Ciell
>
> Op vr 31 jul. 2020 18:25 schreef Aron Manning <[hidden email]>:
>
> > As firmly endorsed by 41 community members (out of thousands) in the ToU
> > for WMF
> > <
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Recommendations/Iteration_1/Diversity/9#Terms_of_Use_for_the_WMF
> > >
> > discussion,
> > I think we can agree that the Terms of Use (and also the Code of Conduct)
> > should apply to WMF employees as well, not just volunteers.
> >
> > However, I don't see how from that it could be inferred that there should
> > be no Code of Conduct for the communities.
> > I believe that the important question is how the CoC will be implemented:
> > will it be a tool for silencing unwanted POVs or a tool for addressing
> > toxicity?
> >
> >
> > Just my thoughts.
> > Aron
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 at 18:11, Yaroslav Blanter <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > It is known and widely recognized that online communities were excluded
> > > from the strategy process. There was no way one could open RfC on the
> > > process, and no approval of the strategy by the editing communities.
> > >
> > > This has to be fixed now. It is difficult to fix, because there are
> > already
> > > too many boundary conditions attached, and I am personally trying to do
> > > whatever I can as a member of the transition strategy group.
> > >
> > > On the other hand, there was no real RfC rejecting the UCoC (at least I
> > am
> > > not aware of one), even though many users, in particular, on the
> English
> > > Wikipedia in relation to the Fram affair, were very vocal about this.
> But
> > > people become vocal about many things, some of them, for example,
> > continue
> > > to advocate that we should fork from the existing project and this
> > forking
> > > is the only way forward. People say many things, and we have community
> > > processes to see what is consensus and what is not.
> > >
> > > In the current situation, specifically concerning UCoC, is to wait for
> > the
> > > draft / drafting principle, whatever comes on 24 august. If many people
> > > think the product is not acceptable they should open RfC on meta or on
> > the
> > > projects and see whether there is consensus it is unacceptable. For
> these
> > > RfCs to happen, but for this people should really follow the process,
> > read
> > > the draft and see what the consequences are. If online communities are
> > not
> > > involved in this process either, then things will go over and over
> again
> > -
> > > UCOc accepted as proposed, included into ToU, followed by a couple of
> > > high-profile bans, shistorm in the most active communities, and
> complete
> > > denial by WMF managers. We have been there and we do not want this
> > > happening again.
> > >
> > > Best
> > > Yaroslav
> > >
> > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 5:55 PM Anders Wennersten <
> > > [hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > If you choose to not take active part in he strategy process it it
> your
> > > > privilege.  But the fact is that the Strategy is the steering
> document
> > > > now for the nearest activities in the Movement. And the endorsments
> are
> > > > there to be read.
> > > >
> > > > If you had wanted the endorsement to be visible in the form of a Rfc,
> > > > you missed to express that in an appropriate  moment.
> > > >
> > > > Anders
> > > >
> > > > (This being my third entry, it will be my last)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Den 2020-07-31 kl. 17:38, skrev Todd Allen:
> > > > > I have read that, but do not see any public RfC nor any individual
> > > > > statements.
> > > > >
> > > > > Todd
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 9:34 AM Anders Wennersten <
> > > > [hidden email]>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> Read
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20
> > > > >> and people involved supporting it and endorsing its different
> phases
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Anders
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Den 2020-07-31 kl. 17:28, skrev Todd Allen:
> > > > >>> Where was the public RfC that these "700 individuals"
> participated
> > > in?
> > > > >> The
> > > > >>> one I saw, which took place on Meta, was, again, a very firm
> "No".
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Off-wiki backchanneling stuff doesn't count.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Todd
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 9:18 AM Anders Wennersten <
> > > > >> [hidden email]>
> > > > >>> wrote:
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>> The development of the Code of Conduct is part of the Strategy.
> > The
> > > > >>>> strategy and this part was endorsed by some 700 individuals
> > > > representing
> > > > >>>> more or less all parts of the Movement. And that group is the
> > > closest
> > > > we
> > > > >>>> have seen resembling a government body of the movement. But as
> in
> > a
> > > > >>>> democracy, even if the parliament is unanimous in a decision, it
> > > does
> > > > >>>> not mean all citizens, or even groups of citizens, agree. But is
> > the
> > > > >>>> best way we know how to come to a decision.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> And how to implent it is still open, and will most likely
> involve
> > > all
> > > > >>>> parties being effected by it
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Anders
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Den 2020-07-31 kl. 16:28, skrev Todd Allen:
> > > > >>>>> Uh, guys?
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> That was a firm "No" on any Universal Code of Conduct. There
> > > > shouldn't
> > > > >>>> be a
> > > > >>>>> "drafting committee" for it, it was disapproved.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Todd
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 11:49 AM Christel Steigenberger <
> > > > >>>>> [hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Hello everyone,
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> We are happy to announce that the Universal Code of Conduct
> > > drafting
> > > > >>>>>> committee has been assembled. We had 26 volunteers apply,
> either
> > > by
> > > > >>>>>> publicly signing up on the Meta page, or by sending an email.
> > > > >> Volunteers
> > > > >>>>>> from 18 different countries applied, speaking 11 different
> > > > languages.
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> We had Wikimedian applicants with different levels of
> experience
> > > > >>>> on-wiki,
> > > > >>>>>> from someone who started editing only last year to people who
> > have
> > > > >> been
> > > > >>>>>> editing for more than 18 years and/or have more than 300,000
> > > edits.
> > > > >>>>>> Applicants held a variety of different roles within the
> > movement,
> > > > and
> > > > >>>> also
> > > > >>>>>> informed us about interesting and relevant experiences in
> their
> > > > >>>> real-life
> > > > >>>>>> careers. It was very hard to narrow down from this diverse and
> > > > >> extremely
> > > > >>>>>> qualified pool of applicants.
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> For the final selection, two aspects guided the decision
> making
> > -
> > > we
> > > > >>>> want a
> > > > >>>>>> committee that at the one hand will represent important parts
> of
> > > the
> > > > >>>>>> movement. Prolific editors as well as Wikimedians whose
> strength
> > > is
> > > > >>>> more in
> > > > >>>>>> organizing events, wikimedians from different demographics,
> > > > >> contributors
> > > > >>>>>> from small and large wikis, and people holding different roles
> > > > within
> > > > >>>> the
> > > > >>>>>> movement. We also wanted a group of people who will
> collaborate
> > > with
> > > > >> one
> > > > >>>>>> another effectively and create the best possible Universal
> Code
> > of
> > > > >>>> Conduct
> > > > >>>>>> for the Wikimedia movement. Experience has taught us that
> > > committees
> > > > >>>> that
> > > > >>>>>> are too large find it difficult to work effectively, so we
> > decided
> > > > to
> > > > >>>> cap
> > > > >>>>>> the number of seats to 6 volunteer seats and 3 staff seats.
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> More information on the Committee and its new members can be
> > found
> > > > on
> > > > >>>> Meta
> > > > >>>>>> <
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee
> > > > >>>>>> [1], and a timeline for their work is available on the main
> UCoC
> > > > page
> > > > >>>>>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct>
> > [2].
> > > > >> Please
> > > > >>>>>> note that more chances for engagement are coming up during the
> > > > >> community
> > > > >>>>>> draft review period starting from August 24.
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Best regards,
> > > > >>>>>> Christel
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>      [1]
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee
> > > > >>>>>> [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Christel Steigenberger (she/her)
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Trust and Safety Specialist
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
> > > > >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> > > > >>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > >>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > >>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > >>>>>> New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > >>>>>> Unsubscribe:
> > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > > > >> ,
> > > > >>>>>> <mailto:[hidden email]
> > > > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > >>>>> _______________________________________________
> > > > >>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > >>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > >>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > >>>>> New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > >>>>> Unsubscribe:
> > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > >>>> <mailto:[hidden email]
> > > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> _______________________________________________
> > > > >>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > >>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > >>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > >>>> New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > >>>> Unsubscribe:
> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > > > ,
> > > > >>>> <mailto:[hidden email]
> > > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > >>> _______________________________________________
> > > > >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > >>> New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > >>> Unsubscribe:
> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > >> <mailto:[hidden email]
> > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > >> New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > >> Unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > > ,
> > > > >> <mailto:[hidden email]
> > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Universal Code of Conduct Drafting Committee - Call for participation

Ciell Wikipedia
Yaroslav did, and again the Framwiki case was mentioned. And while I do
realise this bruised and scarred the relationship between the English
community and the WMF, please realise the UCoC could benefit a lot of other
communities. Those who are not vocal on this list, and are just the silent
readers. Those who maybe do not even know this list exists, or do not read
because of English not being their first language. Those who have been
struggling to keep their wiki on track maybe, and do not have the time or
knowledge to design and agree on behavioural ground rules. Or in countries
where the volunteer work we do even might be dangerous, so they just try to
stick to writing. The UCoC could benefit the whole movement, so please keep
a global perspective on this.

And yes: I do agree we as volunteers deserve to give our input, and we
deserve to be heard. But I do think we will get our chance. For now, it
will be up to the writers to start a draft. Give them time to set this up
properly.

Ciell


Op vr 31 jul. 2020 19:36 schreef Todd Allen <[hidden email]>:

> Hello Ciell,
>
> These discussions took place on meta, not on en.wp. I don't believe anyone
> has brought up the English Wikipedia in particular.
>
> Todd
>
> On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 11:08 AM Ciell Wikipedia <
> [hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > Since this is about a Universal Code of Conduct, please do not focus this
> > thread on the English language Wikipedia alone.
> >
> > Ciell
> >
> > Op vr 31 jul. 2020 18:25 schreef Aron Manning <[hidden email]>:
> >
> > > As firmly endorsed by 41 community members (out of thousands) in the
> ToU
> > > for WMF
> > > <
> > >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Recommendations/Iteration_1/Diversity/9#Terms_of_Use_for_the_WMF
> > > >
> > > discussion,
> > > I think we can agree that the Terms of Use (and also the Code of
> Conduct)
> > > should apply to WMF employees as well, not just volunteers.
> > >
> > > However, I don't see how from that it could be inferred that there
> should
> > > be no Code of Conduct for the communities.
> > > I believe that the important question is how the CoC will be
> implemented:
> > > will it be a tool for silencing unwanted POVs or a tool for addressing
> > > toxicity?
> > >
> > >
> > > Just my thoughts.
> > > Aron
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 at 18:11, Yaroslav Blanter <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > It is known and widely recognized that online communities were
> excluded
> > > > from the strategy process. There was no way one could open RfC on the
> > > > process, and no approval of the strategy by the editing communities.
> > > >
> > > > This has to be fixed now. It is difficult to fix, because there are
> > > already
> > > > too many boundary conditions attached, and I am personally trying to
> do
> > > > whatever I can as a member of the transition strategy group.
> > > >
> > > > On the other hand, there was no real RfC rejecting the UCoC (at
> least I
> > > am
> > > > not aware of one), even though many users, in particular, on the
> > English
> > > > Wikipedia in relation to the Fram affair, were very vocal about this.
> > But
> > > > people become vocal about many things, some of them, for example,
> > > continue
> > > > to advocate that we should fork from the existing project and this
> > > forking
> > > > is the only way forward. People say many things, and we have
> community
> > > > processes to see what is consensus and what is not.
> > > >
> > > > In the current situation, specifically concerning UCoC, is to wait
> for
> > > the
> > > > draft / drafting principle, whatever comes on 24 august. If many
> people
> > > > think the product is not acceptable they should open RfC on meta or
> on
> > > the
> > > > projects and see whether there is consensus it is unacceptable. For
> > these
> > > > RfCs to happen, but for this people should really follow the process,
> > > read
> > > > the draft and see what the consequences are. If online communities
> are
> > > not
> > > > involved in this process either, then things will go over and over
> > again
> > > -
> > > > UCOc accepted as proposed, included into ToU, followed by a couple of
> > > > high-profile bans, shistorm in the most active communities, and
> > complete
> > > > denial by WMF managers. We have been there and we do not want this
> > > > happening again.
> > > >
> > > > Best
> > > > Yaroslav
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 5:55 PM Anders Wennersten <
> > > > [hidden email]>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > If you choose to not take active part in he strategy process it it
> > your
> > > > > privilege.  But the fact is that the Strategy is the steering
> > document
> > > > > now for the nearest activities in the Movement. And the endorsments
> > are
> > > > > there to be read.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you had wanted the endorsement to be visible in the form of a
> Rfc,
> > > > > you missed to express that in an appropriate  moment.
> > > > >
> > > > > Anders
> > > > >
> > > > > (This being my third entry, it will be my last)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Den 2020-07-31 kl. 17:38, skrev Todd Allen:
> > > > > > I have read that, but do not see any public RfC nor any
> individual
> > > > > > statements.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Todd
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 9:34 AM Anders Wennersten <
> > > > > [hidden email]>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> Read
> > > > >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20
> > > > > >> and people involved supporting it and endorsing its different
> > phases
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Anders
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Den 2020-07-31 kl. 17:28, skrev Todd Allen:
> > > > > >>> Where was the public RfC that these "700 individuals"
> > participated
> > > > in?
> > > > > >> The
> > > > > >>> one I saw, which took place on Meta, was, again, a very firm
> > "No".
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Off-wiki backchanneling stuff doesn't count.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Todd
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 9:18 AM Anders Wennersten <
> > > > > >> [hidden email]>
> > > > > >>> wrote:
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>> The development of the Code of Conduct is part of the
> Strategy.
> > > The
> > > > > >>>> strategy and this part was endorsed by some 700 individuals
> > > > > representing
> > > > > >>>> more or less all parts of the Movement. And that group is the
> > > > closest
> > > > > we
> > > > > >>>> have seen resembling a government body of the movement. But as
> > in
> > > a
> > > > > >>>> democracy, even if the parliament is unanimous in a decision,
> it
> > > > does
> > > > > >>>> not mean all citizens, or even groups of citizens, agree. But
> is
> > > the
> > > > > >>>> best way we know how to come to a decision.
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> And how to implent it is still open, and will most likely
> > involve
> > > > all
> > > > > >>>> parties being effected by it
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> Anders
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> Den 2020-07-31 kl. 16:28, skrev Todd Allen:
> > > > > >>>>> Uh, guys?
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> That was a firm "No" on any Universal Code of Conduct. There
> > > > > shouldn't
> > > > > >>>> be a
> > > > > >>>>> "drafting committee" for it, it was disapproved.
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> Todd
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 11:49 AM Christel Steigenberger <
> > > > > >>>>> [hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> Hello everyone,
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> We are happy to announce that the Universal Code of Conduct
> > > > drafting
> > > > > >>>>>> committee has been assembled. We had 26 volunteers apply,
> > either
> > > > by
> > > > > >>>>>> publicly signing up on the Meta page, or by sending an
> email.
> > > > > >> Volunteers
> > > > > >>>>>> from 18 different countries applied, speaking 11 different
> > > > > languages.
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> We had Wikimedian applicants with different levels of
> > experience
> > > > > >>>> on-wiki,
> > > > > >>>>>> from someone who started editing only last year to people
> who
> > > have
> > > > > >> been
> > > > > >>>>>> editing for more than 18 years and/or have more than 300,000
> > > > edits.
> > > > > >>>>>> Applicants held a variety of different roles within the
> > > movement,
> > > > > and
> > > > > >>>> also
> > > > > >>>>>> informed us about interesting and relevant experiences in
> > their
> > > > > >>>> real-life
> > > > > >>>>>> careers. It was very hard to narrow down from this diverse
> and
> > > > > >> extremely
> > > > > >>>>>> qualified pool of applicants.
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> For the final selection, two aspects guided the decision
> > making
> > > -
> > > > we
> > > > > >>>> want a
> > > > > >>>>>> committee that at the one hand will represent important
> parts
> > of
> > > > the
> > > > > >>>>>> movement. Prolific editors as well as Wikimedians whose
> > strength
> > > > is
> > > > > >>>> more in
> > > > > >>>>>> organizing events, wikimedians from different demographics,
> > > > > >> contributors
> > > > > >>>>>> from small and large wikis, and people holding different
> roles
> > > > > within
> > > > > >>>> the
> > > > > >>>>>> movement. We also wanted a group of people who will
> > collaborate
> > > > with
> > > > > >> one
> > > > > >>>>>> another effectively and create the best possible Universal
> > Code
> > > of
> > > > > >>>> Conduct
> > > > > >>>>>> for the Wikimedia movement. Experience has taught us that
> > > > committees
> > > > > >>>> that
> > > > > >>>>>> are too large find it difficult to work effectively, so we
> > > decided
> > > > > to
> > > > > >>>> cap
> > > > > >>>>>> the number of seats to 6 volunteer seats and 3 staff seats.
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> More information on the Committee and its new members can be
> > > found
> > > > > on
> > > > > >>>> Meta
> > > > > >>>>>> <
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee
> > > > > >>>>>> [1], and a timeline for their work is available on the main
> > UCoC
> > > > > page
> > > > > >>>>>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct>
> > > [2].
> > > > > >> Please
> > > > > >>>>>> note that more chances for engagement are coming up during
> the
> > > > > >> community
> > > > > >>>>>> draft review period starting from August 24.
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> Best regards,
> > > > > >>>>>> Christel
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>      [1]
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee
> > > > > >>>>>> [2]
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> Christel Steigenberger (she/her)
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> Trust and Safety Specialist
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
> > > > > >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> > > > > >>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > >>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> and
> > > > > >>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
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> > > > > >>>>>> Unsubscribe:
> > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > > > > >> ,
> > > > > >>>>>> <mailto:[hidden email]
> > > > > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > >>>>> _______________________________________________
> > > > > >>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Universal Code of Conduct Drafting Committee - Call for participation

Isaac Olatunde
I agree with Cieli. I have had the privilege to speak to people offline to
get their view on the proposed UCoc. This includes people on this list who
are not native speakers of the English language and not willing to openly
engage in a discussion about it. Many of them are interested in seeing the
draft.

We can't speak on their behalf here or anywhere else  and we can't assume
they share our feelings or thought. Every contributor matter, regardless of
the language they choose to contribute to and I think we should respect
that.

I look forward to reading the draft and possibly providing feedback.

Good luck to the drafting committee and the WMF staffers who are involved
in this process.

With kind regards
Isaac



On Fri, 31 Jul 2020, 19:24 Ciell Wikipedia, <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Yaroslav did, and again the Framwiki case was mentioned. And while I do
> realise this bruised and scarred the relationship between the English
> community and the WMF, please realise the UCoC could benefit a lot of other
> communities. Those who are not vocal on this list, and are just the silent
> readers. Those who maybe do not even know this list exists, or do not read
> because of English not being their first language. Those who have been
> struggling to keep their wiki on track maybe, and do not have the time or
> knowledge to design and agree on behavioural ground rules. Or in countries
> where the volunteer work we do even might be dangerous, so they just try to
> stick to writing. The UCoC could benefit the whole movement, so please keep
> a global perspective on this.
>
> And yes: I do agree we as volunteers deserve to give our input, and we
> deserve to be heard. But I do think we will get our chance. For now, it
> will be up to the writers to start a draft. Give them time to set this up
> properly.
>
> Ciell
>
>
> Op vr 31 jul. 2020 19:36 schreef Todd Allen <[hidden email]>:
>
> > Hello Ciell,
> >
> > These discussions took place on meta, not on en.wp. I don't believe
> anyone
> > has brought up the English Wikipedia in particular.
> >
> > Todd
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 11:08 AM Ciell Wikipedia <
> > [hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Since this is about a Universal Code of Conduct, please do not focus
> this
> > > thread on the English language Wikipedia alone.
> > >
> > > Ciell
> > >
> > > Op vr 31 jul. 2020 18:25 schreef Aron Manning <[hidden email]
> >:
> > >
> > > > As firmly endorsed by 41 community members (out of thousands) in the
> > ToU
> > > > for WMF
> > > > <
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Recommendations/Iteration_1/Diversity/9#Terms_of_Use_for_the_WMF
> > > > >
> > > > discussion,
> > > > I think we can agree that the Terms of Use (and also the Code of
> > Conduct)
> > > > should apply to WMF employees as well, not just volunteers.
> > > >
> > > > However, I don't see how from that it could be inferred that there
> > should
> > > > be no Code of Conduct for the communities.
> > > > I believe that the important question is how the CoC will be
> > implemented:
> > > > will it be a tool for silencing unwanted POVs or a tool for
> addressing
> > > > toxicity?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Just my thoughts.
> > > > Aron
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 at 18:11, Yaroslav Blanter <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > It is known and widely recognized that online communities were
> > excluded
> > > > > from the strategy process. There was no way one could open RfC on
> the
> > > > > process, and no approval of the strategy by the editing
> communities.
> > > > >
> > > > > This has to be fixed now. It is difficult to fix, because there are
> > > > already
> > > > > too many boundary conditions attached, and I am personally trying
> to
> > do
> > > > > whatever I can as a member of the transition strategy group.
> > > > >
> > > > > On the other hand, there was no real RfC rejecting the UCoC (at
> > least I
> > > > am
> > > > > not aware of one), even though many users, in particular, on the
> > > English
> > > > > Wikipedia in relation to the Fram affair, were very vocal about
> this.
> > > But
> > > > > people become vocal about many things, some of them, for example,
> > > > continue
> > > > > to advocate that we should fork from the existing project and this
> > > > forking
> > > > > is the only way forward. People say many things, and we have
> > community
> > > > > processes to see what is consensus and what is not.
> > > > >
> > > > > In the current situation, specifically concerning UCoC, is to wait
> > for
> > > > the
> > > > > draft / drafting principle, whatever comes on 24 august. If many
> > people
> > > > > think the product is not acceptable they should open RfC on meta or
> > on
> > > > the
> > > > > projects and see whether there is consensus it is unacceptable. For
> > > these
> > > > > RfCs to happen, but for this people should really follow the
> process,
> > > > read
> > > > > the draft and see what the consequences are. If online communities
> > are
> > > > not
> > > > > involved in this process either, then things will go over and over
> > > again
> > > > -
> > > > > UCOc accepted as proposed, included into ToU, followed by a couple
> of
> > > > > high-profile bans, shistorm in the most active communities, and
> > > complete
> > > > > denial by WMF managers. We have been there and we do not want this
> > > > > happening again.
> > > > >
> > > > > Best
> > > > > Yaroslav
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 5:55 PM Anders Wennersten <
> > > > > [hidden email]>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > If you choose to not take active part in he strategy process it
> it
> > > your
> > > > > > privilege.  But the fact is that the Strategy is the steering
> > > document
> > > > > > now for the nearest activities in the Movement. And the
> endorsments
> > > are
> > > > > > there to be read.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you had wanted the endorsement to be visible in the form of a
> > Rfc,
> > > > > > you missed to express that in an appropriate  moment.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Anders
> > > > > >
> > > > > > (This being my third entry, it will be my last)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Den 2020-07-31 kl. 17:38, skrev Todd Allen:
> > > > > > > I have read that, but do not see any public RfC nor any
> > individual
> > > > > > > statements.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Todd
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 9:34 AM Anders Wennersten <
> > > > > > [hidden email]>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> Read
> > > > > >
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20
> > > > > > >> and people involved supporting it and endorsing its different
> > > phases
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Anders
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Den 2020-07-31 kl. 17:28, skrev Todd Allen:
> > > > > > >>> Where was the public RfC that these "700 individuals"
> > > participated
> > > > > in?
> > > > > > >> The
> > > > > > >>> one I saw, which took place on Meta, was, again, a very firm
> > > "No".
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>> Off-wiki backchanneling stuff doesn't count.
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>> Todd
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 9:18 AM Anders Wennersten <
> > > > > > >> [hidden email]>
> > > > > > >>> wrote:
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>>> The development of the Code of Conduct is part of the
> > Strategy.
> > > > The
> > > > > > >>>> strategy and this part was endorsed by some 700 individuals
> > > > > > representing
> > > > > > >>>> more or less all parts of the Movement. And that group is
> the
> > > > > closest
> > > > > > we
> > > > > > >>>> have seen resembling a government body of the movement. But
> as
> > > in
> > > > a
> > > > > > >>>> democracy, even if the parliament is unanimous in a
> decision,
> > it
> > > > > does
> > > > > > >>>> not mean all citizens, or even groups of citizens, agree.
> But
> > is
> > > > the
> > > > > > >>>> best way we know how to come to a decision.
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>> And how to implent it is still open, and will most likely
> > > involve
> > > > > all
> > > > > > >>>> parties being effected by it
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>> Anders
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>> Den 2020-07-31 kl. 16:28, skrev Todd Allen:
> > > > > > >>>>> Uh, guys?
> > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>> That was a firm "No" on any Universal Code of Conduct.
> There
> > > > > > shouldn't
> > > > > > >>>> be a
> > > > > > >>>>> "drafting committee" for it, it was disapproved.
> > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>> Todd
> > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>> On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 11:49 AM Christel Steigenberger <
> > > > > > >>>>> [hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>> Hello everyone,
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>> We are happy to announce that the Universal Code of
> Conduct
> > > > > drafting
> > > > > > >>>>>> committee has been assembled. We had 26 volunteers apply,
> > > either
> > > > > by
> > > > > > >>>>>> publicly signing up on the Meta page, or by sending an
> > email.
> > > > > > >> Volunteers
> > > > > > >>>>>> from 18 different countries applied, speaking 11 different
> > > > > > languages.
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>> We had Wikimedian applicants with different levels of
> > > experience
> > > > > > >>>> on-wiki,
> > > > > > >>>>>> from someone who started editing only last year to people
> > who
> > > > have
> > > > > > >> been
> > > > > > >>>>>> editing for more than 18 years and/or have more than
> 300,000
> > > > > edits.
> > > > > > >>>>>> Applicants held a variety of different roles within the
> > > > movement,
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > >>>> also
> > > > > > >>>>>> informed us about interesting and relevant experiences in
> > > their
> > > > > > >>>> real-life
> > > > > > >>>>>> careers. It was very hard to narrow down from this diverse
> > and
> > > > > > >> extremely
> > > > > > >>>>>> qualified pool of applicants.
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>> For the final selection, two aspects guided the decision
> > > making
> > > > -
> > > > > we
> > > > > > >>>> want a
> > > > > > >>>>>> committee that at the one hand will represent important
> > parts
> > > of
> > > > > the
> > > > > > >>>>>> movement. Prolific editors as well as Wikimedians whose
> > > strength
> > > > > is
> > > > > > >>>> more in
> > > > > > >>>>>> organizing events, wikimedians from different
> demographics,
> > > > > > >> contributors
> > > > > > >>>>>> from small and large wikis, and people holding different
> > roles
> > > > > > within
> > > > > > >>>> the
> > > > > > >>>>>> movement. We also wanted a group of people who will
> > > collaborate
> > > > > with
> > > > > > >> one
> > > > > > >>>>>> another effectively and create the best possible Universal
> > > Code
> > > > of
> > > > > > >>>> Conduct
> > > > > > >>>>>> for the Wikimedia movement. Experience has taught us that
> > > > > committees
> > > > > > >>>> that
> > > > > > >>>>>> are too large find it difficult to work effectively, so we
> > > > decided
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > >>>> cap
> > > > > > >>>>>> the number of seats to 6 volunteer seats and 3 staff
> seats.
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>> More information on the Committee and its new members can
> be
> > > > found
> > > > > > on
> > > > > > >>>> Meta
> > > > > > >>>>>> <
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee
> > > > > > >>>>>> [1], and a timeline for their work is available on the
> main
> > > UCoC
> > > > > > page
> > > > > > >>>>>> <
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct>
> > > > [2].
> > > > > > >> Please
> > > > > > >>>>>> note that more chances for engagement are coming up during
> > the
> > > > > > >> community
> > > > > > >>>>>> draft review period starting from August 24.
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>> Best regards,
> > > > > > >>>>>> Christel
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>      [1]
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Drafting_committee
> > > > > > >>>>>> [2]
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Universal_Code_of_Conduct
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>> Christel Steigenberger (she/her)
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>> Trust and Safety Specialist
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>> Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
> > > > > > >>>>>> _______________________________________________
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