Re: the meaning of registration and editcount

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Re: the meaning of registration and editcount

rdhyee
Thanks, Roan, for responding to my post.  It did occur to me I had hit upon an account renaming but I think something else is happening here.  Let me give an example of an account renaming that seems to be the most common:

User:Penrithpanthers was renamed to User:SATidball -- which you can see at

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&type=renameuser&user=&page=User:Penrithpanthers&year=&month=-1&tagfilter=

04:53, 3 December 2010 Nihonjoe (talk | contribs) renamed User:Penrithpanthers to "SATidball" ‎ (94 edits. Reason: WP:CHU)

If we look up Penrithpanthers and SATidball in the API, using  http://en.wikipedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&list=users&ususers=Penrithpanthers|SATidball&usprop=groups|editcount|gender|registration we get:

<?xml version="1.0"?>
<api>
  <query>
    <users>
      <user name="Penrithpanthers" missing="" />
      <user name="SATidball" editcount="96" registration="2010-09-25T00:30:16Z" gender="male" />
    </users>
  </query>
</api>

The old account name is now "missing" and the new account SATidball picks up the registration date and all the contributions that used to belong to Penrithpanthers. 

What happened with User:Katr67 seems to be a bit different.  We can find a renaming event for User:Katr67 http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&type=renameuser&user=&page=User:Katr67&year=&month=-1&tagfilter= shows

03:31, 18 September 2010 Nihonjoe (talk | contribs) renamed User:Katr67 to "Valfontis" ‎ (53,420 edits. Reason: WP:CHU)

However, the User:Katr67 account is not deleted (as was User:Penrithpanthers).  Instead, going to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Katr67  redirects  to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Valfontis  And we look up both users at http://en.wikipedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&list=users&ususers=Katr67|Valfontis&usprop=groups|editcount|gender|registration we get

<?xml version="1.0"?>
<api>
  <query>
    <users>
      <user name="Katr67" editcount="4" registration="2010-12-10T08:09:19Z" gender="unknown" />
      <user name="Valfontis" editcount="53627" registration="2006-01-06T10:23:49Z" gender="unknown">
        <groups>
          <g>autoreviewer</g>
          <g>reviewer</g>
          <g>rollbacker</g>
        </groups>
      </user>
    </users>
  </query>
</api>

So what's happening with Katr67/Valfontis ?

Thanks,
-Raymond (User:RaymondYee)


On 12/13/10 6:24 PM, Roan Kattouw wrote:
2010/12/14 Raymond Yee [hidden email]:
In computing statistics for many recent accounts, I have these assumptions
to be true for the vast majority of accounts.  I'm puzzled, however, for
accounts in which one or both assumptions are wrong.  An example is
User:Katr67

You probably hit an account rename here. Edits are reattributed for
those, but I guess the editcount isn't updated for that, and of course
the registration timestamp will be different too.

Roan Kattouw (Catrope)



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Re: the meaning of registration and editcount

Hercule Hercule
I think I know.

Editcount register the edits made by a user. And contributions are the lines of history with his name.


So, when I rename a page I make 1 edit, but create 2 lines if history (the one on redirect will be deleted if someone cancel my renaming.

A case when you can have history line anterior to your registration is on history import. And, as you didn't made the edit it is not in edit count.

That can explain higher or lower editcount.

Regards

Hercule


Le 14 déc. 2010 à 02:28, Raymond Yee <[hidden email]> a écrit :

Thanks, Roan, for responding to my post.  It did occur to me I had hit upon an account renaming but I think something else is happening here.  Let me give an example of an account renaming that seems to be the most common:

User:Penrithpanthers was renamed to User:SATidball -- which you can see at

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&type=renameuser&user=&page=User:Penrithpanthers&year=&month=-1&tagfilter=

04:53, 3 December 2010 Nihonjoe (talk | contribs) renamed User:Penrithpanthers to "SATidball" ‎ (94 edits. Reason: WP:CHU)

If we look up Penrithpanthers and SATidball in the API, using  http://en.wikipedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&list=users&ususers=Penrithpanthers|SATidball&usprop=groups|editcount|gender|registration we get:

<?xml version="1.0"?>
<api>
  <query>
    <users>
      <user name="Penrithpanthers" missing="" />
      <user name="SATidball" editcount="96" registration="2010-09-25T00:30:16Z" gender="male" />
    </users>
  </query>
</api>

The old account name is now "missing" and the new account SATidball picks up the registration date and all the contributions that used to belong to Penrithpanthers. 

What happened with User:Katr67 seems to be a bit different.  We can find a renaming event for User:Katr67 http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&type=renameuser&user=&page=User:Katr67&year=&month=-1&tagfilter= shows

03:31, 18 September 2010 Nihonjoe (talk | contribs) renamed User:Katr67 to "Valfontis" ‎ (53,420 edits. Reason: WP:CHU)

However, the User:Katr67 account is not deleted (as was User:Penrithpanthers).  Instead, going to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Katr67  redirects  to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Valfontis  And we look up both users at http://en.wikipedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&list=users&ususers=Katr67|Valfontis&usprop=groups|editcount|gender|registration we get

<?xml version="1.0"?>
<api>
  <query>
    <users>
      <user name="Katr67" editcount="4" registration="2010-12-10T08:09:19Z" gender="unknown" />
      <user name="Valfontis" editcount="53627" registration="2006-01-06T10:23:49Z" gender="unknown">
        <groups>
          <g>autoreviewer</g>
          <g>reviewer</g>
          <g>rollbacker</g>
        </groups>
      </user>
    </users>
  </query>
</api>

So what's happening with Katr67/Valfontis ?

Thanks,
-Raymond (User:RaymondYee)


On 12/13/10 6:24 PM, Roan Kattouw wrote:
2010/12/14 Raymond Yee [hidden email]>:
In computing statistics for many recent accounts, I have these assumptions
to be true for the vast majority of accounts.  I'm puzzled, however, for
accounts in which one or both assumptions are wrong.  An example is
User:Katr67

You probably hit an account rename here. Edits are reattributed for
those, but I guess the editcount isn't updated for that, and of course
the registration timestamp will be different too.

Roan Kattouw (Catrope)


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Re: the meaning of registration and editcount

Roan Kattouw-2
In reply to this post by rdhyee
2010/12/14 Raymond Yee <[hidden email]>:

> What happened with User:Katr67 seems to be a bit different.  We can find a
> renaming event for User:Katr67
> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&type=renameuser&user=&page=User:Katr67&year=&month=-1&tagfilter=
> shows
>
> 03:31, 18 September 2010 Nihonjoe (talk | contribs) renamed User:Katr67 to
> "Valfontis" ‎ (53,420 edits. Reason: WP:CHU)
>
> However, the User:Katr67 account is not deleted (as was
> User:Penrithpanthers).  Instead, going to
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Katr67  redirects  to
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Valfontis  And we look up both users at
> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&list=users&ususers=Katr67|Valfontis&usprop=groups|editcount|gender|registration
> we get
>
This happens sometimes, usually due to the user being logged in while
they're being renamed or something, causing the old name to be
recreated. That doesn't seem to be the case here (timestamp mismatch)
so I'm not sure exactly what happened in this particular case; maybe
someone just recreated the account, simple as that.

Roan Kattouw (Catrope)

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Re: the meaning of registration and editcount

b-jorsch
In reply to this post by Hercule Hercule
On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 08:22:15AM +0100, Hercule wrote:
>
> Editcount register the edits made by a user. And contributions are the
> lines of history with his name.
>
> So, when I rename a page I make 1 edit, but create 2 lines if history
> (the one on redirect will be deleted if someone cancel my renaming.

Many log events that affect pages add a "dummy" revision, which can show
up in the page history and the user's contribs but will not be included
in editcount. AFAICT the only things that do increment editcount are
actually editing a page and uploading a new file (but not overwriting an
existing file).

Also, AFAICT editcount is never decremented. Not even if someone moves a
page over a redirect you created, which does seem to completely delete
the old revision for the redirect beyond any recovery.

> A case when you can have history line anterior to your registration is
> on history import. And, as you didn't made the edit it is not in edit
> count.

I was going to suggest that too. It's even possible for a wiki to have
edits attributed to a user account that doesn't exist due to imports.

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Re: the meaning of registration and editcount

Alex Zaddach
In reply to this post by Roan Kattouw-2
On 12/14/2010 5:24 AM, Roan Kattouw wrote:

> 2010/12/14 Raymond Yee <[hidden email]>:
>> What happened with User:Katr67 seems to be a bit different.  We can find a
>> renaming event for User:Katr67
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&type=renameuser&user=&page=User:Katr67&year=&month=-1&tagfilter=
>> shows
>>
>> 03:31, 18 September 2010 Nihonjoe (talk | contribs) renamed User:Katr67 to
>> "Valfontis" ‎ (53,420 edits. Reason: WP:CHU)
>>
>> However, the User:Katr67 account is not deleted (as was
>> User:Penrithpanthers).  Instead, going to
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Katr67  redirects  to
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Valfontis  And we look up both users at
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&list=users&ususers=Katr67|Valfontis&usprop=groups|editcount|gender|registration
>> we get
>>
> This happens sometimes, usually due to the user being logged in while
> they're being renamed or something, causing the old name to be
> recreated. That doesn't seem to be the case here (timestamp mismatch)
> so I'm not sure exactly what happened in this particular case; maybe
> someone just recreated the account, simple as that.
>

This is probably from the user rename bug where edits from users with
large edit counts don't get re-attributed properly in the revision table.

https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=17313

--
Alex (wikipedia:en:User:Mr.Z-man)

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Re: the meaning of registration and editcount

rdhyee
In reply to this post by b-jorsch
Thanks, Roan, Hercule, Brad, and Alex for your helpful responses.

To summarize, the following factors complicate my simple picture of how
registration and editcount work:

1) usercontribs includes more events than recorded in editcount (such as
renaming a page)

2) there may be history imports that bring in edits before the
registration (or after) the registration date

3) sometimes user accounts are recreated even when they have been renamed.

4) there is a bug in which "users with large edit counts don't get
re-attributed properly in the revision table"
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=17313

-Raymond

On 12/14/10 1:31 PM, Brad Jorsch wrote:

> On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 08:22:15AM +0100, Hercule wrote:
>> Editcount register the edits made by a user. And contributions are the
>> lines of history with his name.
>>
>> So, when I rename a page I make 1 edit, but create 2 lines if history
>> (the one on redirect will be deleted if someone cancel my renaming.
> Many log events that affect pages add a "dummy" revision, which can show
> up in the page history and the user's contribs but will not be included
> in editcount. AFAICT the only things that do increment editcount are
> actually editing a page and uploading a new file (but not overwriting an
> existing file).
>
> Also, AFAICT editcount is never decremented. Not even if someone moves a
> page over a redirect you created, which does seem to completely delete
> the old revision for the redirect beyond any recovery.
>
>> A case when you can have history line anterior to your registration is
>> on history import. And, as you didn't made the edit it is not in edit
>> count.
> I was going to suggest that too. It's even possible for a wiki to have
> edits attributed to a user account that doesn't exist due to imports.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Mediawiki-api mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-api


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