Re2: New project - wikicracy

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Re2: New project - wikicracy

Vincent Mandrilly
A) Reply to Thomas Dalton
B) Reply to Milos Rancic

A) Reply to Thomas Dalton
quote : "I'm not sure those two characteristics work well together."
- Agree for the difficulty to combine both. But it is even worse when
decision making is not democratic or when democracy do not try to build a
consensus.
One solution could be to be able to take decisions (when it is needed to
solve a problem fast) while continuing (when possible) to search for a
better consensus if at the time of the decision many disapproved the choice
made by the majority.
quote : "the main problem is that you don't say what you intend this site to
make decisions about".It sounds like your are just proposing an online
debating society, which really isn't something the
Wikimedia Foundation would have anything to do with
- Indeed, I do not propose to make a political party, or a friendship
committee, or a wiki for general debate. If a wiki develop a nice tools that
features all the ideas I made, all these tools, all this development work
will never be helpful for the whole community.
Instead, I propose the development of add-ons to wiki that virtually any
group of people, small (little association) or big (country or all the
people connected to internet) could use.
Wikimedia software is exactly the same: imagine an association would have
developed a wiki for itself, and never planned to share it with the online
community… we wouldn’t have such a widely use of wikis today.
I don’t know if this can be a Wikimedia project, but I believe the people
who created wiki will be interested to continue their formidable work and
help create this improved version of wiki. For me, it looks like a natural
evolution of the tool to apply it to more challenging applications: the
field of debate and decision making after successfully being applied to the
field of information.
- last note: (quote: “[…]is likely to end up with a large number of
propositions without definite borders between them”) :
Yes, choosing one solution within a large diversity of possibilities has
always been delicate. But I prefer a choice between the best propositions,
than no choice. I have always seen the diversity of point of view as
richness, but with one condition: that it doesn’t lead to conflict. And the
best way to avoid conflict is to provide guidelines. The wikicracy project,
(and it is the same with Wikipedia and other wiki) will be specifically
designed to provide such guidelines and give the best environment to ensure
most users will tend to have a constructive criticism, while preserving the
work from vandalism.

----------------------------------------------------
>I propose today to adapt wiki software (a few add-ons could do it) to
>create a special wiki with the following main characteristics :
>- Allow to build cooperative propositions
>- Allow to vote on the propositions democratically

I'm not sure those two characteristics work well together. Democracy can
only decide between a finite number of discrete choices. A co-operative
proposition building process is likely to end up with a large number of
propositions without definite borders between them.
Wikis are good for building consensus, not for managing a democracy.

That aside, the main problem is that you don't say what you intend this site
to make decisions about. It sounds like your are just proposing an online
debating society, which really isn't something the
Wikimedia Foundation would have anything to do with. By all means create
your own site along those lines, but it will never be a Wikimedia project.
----------------------------------------------------

B) Reply to Milos Rancic
- Any group may be interested to build such a tool. The actual state of the
proposal is just one sheet of paper, and I don’t intend to present a one
page project to associations/cities/countries or whatever group. So if you
have a lot of ideas related to this issue, and if you got some free time to
want to waste with me, no need to wait the project has been formulated by
others, and feel free to participate.
- The ones that should be the most interested by this project… are logically
the ones that have been interested by developing the wiki software at its
beginning.
- My problem finding municipalities is, for my part, that I live… in China.
(Wikipedia has recently been unblocked by my Chinese provider, but not the
Chinese wikipages…)
- I am not sure of the best name to select for this project; I’d rather have
it becoming a common decision of the developing team. Besides I am not 100%
sure yet such a project doesn’t exist.

----------------------------------------------------
When Jimmy was talking something about politics.wikia, I was thinking that
it was a platform for something like this idea. And I was disappointed when
I realized that it is just a one more Wikipedia fork one more specific field
(political parties).

I think that this is a good idea (of course, not for WM) if it has
connections with a "real world". MediaWiki (wiki in general, but MediaWiki
especially) is a good platform for articulating political
thoughts of communities (from small to huge; I am sure that with some
software improvements countries/states with around 20 millions of
inhabitants may work together on one MediaWiki).

So, my suggestions are:

- Buy domain wikicracy.org (or something which you like); it is something
like $10/year; try with godaddy.com, for example.
- Ask Wikia (http://www.wikia.com/) for hosting.
- Build a theoretical model.
- Find real communities (for example, some municipalities) which are willing
to switch to MW in their decision-making process.

When you make some initial steps (everything is quite easy except to find
some communities, so, let's say, when you have active contacts with at leas
one community which is willing to switch to MW) -- I am willing to join you
and to help. (I have a lot of ideas related to this issue.)
----------------------------------------------------

Sincerely,

Vincent Mandrilly

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