Ready for early translation: Tech News #05 (2017)

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Ready for early translation: Tech News #05 (2017)

Johan Jönsson-2
The latest tech newsletter is ready for early translation:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Tech/News/2017/05

Direct translation link:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Translate&group=page-Tech%2FNews%2F2017%2F05&action=page

I'm planning to send the newsletter on Monday afternoon (UTC), i.e.
Monday morning PT. The existing translations will be posted on the
wikis in that language. Deadlines:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Tech/News/For_contributors#The_deadlines

There may be a few more edits by Friday, but the existing content
should generally remain fairly stable. I will let you know on Friday
in any case.

Let me know if you have any questions, comments or concerns. As
always, I appreciate your help and feedback.

(If you did not translate Tech News last week, see this email:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/translators-l/2017-January/003773.html

Please do ask if there's anything I can help you with.)

//Johan Jönsson
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Re: Ready for early translation: Tech News #05 (2017)

Johan Jönsson-2
On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 10:19 PM, Johan Jönsson <[hidden email]> wrote:

> The latest tech newsletter is ready for early translation:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Tech/News/2017/05
>
> Direct translation link:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Translate&group=page-Tech%2FNews%2F2017%2F05&action=page
>
> I'm planning to send the newsletter on Monday afternoon (UTC), i.e.
> Monday morning PT. The existing translations will be posted on the
> wikis in that language. Deadlines:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Tech/News/For_contributors#The_deadlines

The text of the newsletter is now final. Three new items has been
added since yesterday. There won't be any more changes; you can
translate safely.

//Johan Jönsson
--

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Re: Ready for early translation: Tech News #05 (2017)

Mathieu Stumpf Guntz

Thank you Johan for the notification.

By the way, should we make https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Tech/News/For_contributors translatable?


Le 27/01/2017 à 16:06, Johan Jönsson a écrit :
On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 10:19 PM, Johan Jönsson [hidden email] wrote:
The latest tech newsletter is ready for early translation:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Tech/News/2017/05

Direct translation link:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Translate&group=page-Tech%2FNews%2F2017%2F05&action=page

I'm planning to send the newsletter on Monday afternoon (UTC), i.e.
Monday morning PT. The existing translations will be posted on the
wikis in that language. Deadlines:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Tech/News/For_contributors#The_deadlines
The text of the newsletter is now final. Three new items has been
added since yesterday. There won't be any more changes; you can
translate safely.

//Johan Jönsson
--

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Re: Ready for early translation: Tech News #05 (2017)

Johan Jönsson-2
On Fri, Jan 27, 2017 at 5:22 PM, mathieu stumpf guntz
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Thank you Johan for the notification.
>
> By the way, should we make
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Tech/News/For_contributors translatable?

I ask myself that for every page I work on on Meta, but unfortunately,
if you don't understand that page in English, contributing to Tech
News will be difficult. Phabricator is in English, Wikimedia technical
development is in English, the newsletter is in English, it's
translated from English. Unlike most pages on Meta and MediaWiki.org,
I don't think the instructions for contributors to Tech News has an
audience that doesn't speak English.

//Johan Jönsson
--

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Re: Ready for early translation: Tech News #05 (2017)

Philippe Verdy
The Tech News is intended to tech-capable users, yes, but they are acting as relays/ambassads to explain to other people, and they will create presentation documents and have a didactiv activity.
Being able to speak a common language but understandardable one for everyone is a must for these news that in fract don't enter in lot of tricky details (and that are in fact read by more people than what you think, even if they are not developers). Anyway even if you speak English on this list not everyone on Meta speak it (otherwise these news would not need to be transalted at all !)

And tech developers are not necessarily the best to speak about how to spek non technical English that are more related here to the organization itself (when we speak about the "Board"). Don't be elitist: these news are intended to be read by the world, including those not reading English. For that reason we should avoid "jargon" as much as possible (and even many technical terms have transaltions in MediaWiki because it is also intended to be used by non-English communities, where English is also undesirable and very unlikey to be understood correctly: we are in the area of usability of the software).

So no, I don't support you too limited POV.

2017-01-27 23:39 GMT+01:00 Johan Jönsson <[hidden email]>:
On Fri, Jan 27, 2017 at 5:22 PM, mathieu stumpf guntz
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Thank you Johan for the notification.
>
> By the way, should we make
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Tech/News/For_contributors translatable?

I ask myself that for every page I work on on Meta, but unfortunately,
if you don't understand that page in English, contributing to Tech
News will be difficult. Phabricator is in English, Wikimedia technical
development is in English, the newsletter is in English, it's
translated from English. Unlike most pages on Meta and MediaWiki.org,
I don't think the instructions for contributors to Tech News has an
audience that doesn't speak English.

//Johan Jönsson
--

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Re: Ready for early translation: Tech News #05 (2017)

Mathieu Stumpf Guntz

Hi Philippe,

They are several distinct points in the answer of Johan, that you are treating as a whole.

My question here was focused on a single page. While one might disagree with it's conclusion to not translate this page, I think that the argument – for this specific page – is reasonable. It's a page targeting translator of the technews, not its general final readers. An other argument in favor of such a translation, is that one might translate not from directly from English, but from an other already translated version: sure the less you have indirection, the better, but we might have volunteers out there for who it might be the only skills they have to offer. An other argument in favor of such a translation, is that our movement praise transparency and availability of knowledge in native languages, this page is (admittedly very small part) of how we organize, so translating it fall in the intersection of this two goals.

Now, I think there are two others important points:

  1. Phabricator is in English: that is clearly something that should be fixed, as it makes the tool far more difficult to use maybe even unusable for non-English speakers.
  2. Wikimedia technical development is in English: well, that's also problematic, but here it's more a general global problematic of poor inclusion of internationalization problems in software development process in general (that is the internationalization of developers tools themselves, not the internationalization targeting end users). It's something for which we might try to foster good practice, but probably not easily resolve alone.

Cheers,

Mathieu


Le 28/01/2017 à 00:57, Philippe Verdy a écrit :
The Tech News is intended to tech-capable users, yes, but they are acting as relays/ambassads to explain to other people, and they will create presentation documents and have a didactiv activity.
Being able to speak a common language but understandardable one for everyone is a must for these news that in fract don't enter in lot of tricky details (and that are in fact read by more people than what you think, even if they are not developers). Anyway even if you speak English on this list not everyone on Meta speak it (otherwise these news would not need to be transalted at all !)

And tech developers are not necessarily the best to speak about how to spek non technical English that are more related here to the organization itself (when we speak about the "Board"). Don't be elitist: these news are intended to be read by the world, including those not reading English. For that reason we should avoid "jargon" as much as possible (and even many technical terms have transaltions in MediaWiki because it is also intended to be used by non-English communities, where English is also undesirable and very unlikey to be understood correctly: we are in the area of usability of the software).

So no, I don't support you too limited POV.

2017-01-27 23:39 GMT+01:00 Johan Jönsson <[hidden email]>:
On Fri, Jan 27, 2017 at 5:22 PM, mathieu stumpf guntz
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Thank you Johan for the notification.
>
> By the way, should we make
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Tech/News/For_contributors translatable?

I ask myself that for every page I work on on Meta, but unfortunately,
if you don't understand that page in English, contributing to Tech
News will be difficult. Phabricator is in English, Wikimedia technical
development is in English, the newsletter is in English, it's
translated from English. Unlike most pages on Meta and MediaWiki.org,
I don't think the instructions for contributors to Tech News has an
audience that doesn't speak English.

//Johan Jönsson
--

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Re: Ready for early translation: Tech News #05 (2017)

Johan Jönsson-2
In reply to this post by Philippe Verdy
On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 at 12:57 AM, Philippe Verdy <[hidden email]> wrote:

> The Tech News is intended to tech-capable users, yes, but they are acting as
> relays/ambassads to explain to other people, and they will create
> presentation documents and have a didactiv activity.
> Being able to speak a common language but understandardable one for everyone
> is a must for these news that in fract don't enter in lot of tricky details
> (and that are in fact read by more people than what you think, even if they
> are not developers). Anyway even if you speak English on this list not
> everyone on Meta speak it (otherwise these news would not need to be
> transalted at all !)
>
> And tech developers are not necessarily the best to speak about how to spek
> non technical English that are more related here to the organization itself
> (when we speak about the "Board"). Don't be elitist: these news are intended
> to be read by the world, including those not reading English. For that
> reason we should avoid "jargon" as much as possible (and even many technical
> terms have transaltions in MediaWiki because it is also intended to be used
> by non-English communities, where English is also undesirable and very
> unlikey to be understood correctly: we are in the area of usability of the
> software).
>
> So no, I don't support you too limited POV.

Hi Philippe,

I don't really disagree with anything I say, but I was responding to a
question regarding one specific page that relates only to a couple of
very specific actions. I generally agree with you that the
translations and the work you – we – do here are very important.

//Johan Jönsson
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Re: Ready for early translation: Tech News #05 (2017)

Mathieu Stumpf Guntz



Le 28/01/2017 à 19:21, Johan Jönsson a écrit :
On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 at 12:57 AM, Philippe Verdy [hidden email] wrote:
The Tech News is intended to tech-capable users, yes, but they are acting as
relays/ambassads to explain to other people, and they will create
presentation documents and have a didactiv activity.
Being able to speak a common language but understandardable one for everyone
is a must for these news that in fract don't enter in lot of tricky details
(and that are in fact read by more people than what you think, even if they
are not developers). Anyway even if you speak English on this list not
everyone on Meta speak it (otherwise these news would not need to be
transalted at all !)

And tech developers are not necessarily the best to speak about how to spek
non technical English that are more related here to the organization itself
(when we speak about the "Board"). Don't be elitist: these news are intended
to be read by the world, including those not reading English. For that
reason we should avoid "jargon" as much as possible (and even many technical
terms have transaltions in MediaWiki because it is also intended to be used
by non-English communities, where English is also undesirable and very
unlikey to be understood correctly: we are in the area of usability of the
software).

So no, I don't support you too limited POV.
Hi Philippe,

I don't really disagree with anything I say, 
If we don't already have one, we should create a page (maybe on Wikisource?) for this kind of lapsus pearl. ;)


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Re: Ready for early translation: Tech News #05 (2017)

Johan Jönsson-2
In reply to this post by Johan Jönsson-2
On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 at 7:21 PM, Johan Jönsson <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 at 12:57 AM, Philippe Verdy <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> The Tech News is intended to tech-capable users, yes, but they are acting as
>> relays/ambassads to explain to other people, and they will create
>> presentation documents and have a didactiv activity.
>> Being able to speak a common language but understandardable one for everyone
>> is a must for these news that in fract don't enter in lot of tricky details
>> (and that are in fact read by more people than what you think, even if they
>> are not developers). Anyway even if you speak English on this list not
>> everyone on Meta speak it (otherwise these news would not need to be
>> transalted at all !)
>>
>> And tech developers are not necessarily the best to speak about how to spek
>> non technical English that are more related here to the organization itself
>> (when we speak about the "Board"). Don't be elitist: these news are intended
>> to be read by the world, including those not reading English. For that
>> reason we should avoid "jargon" as much as possible (and even many technical
>> terms have transaltions in MediaWiki because it is also intended to be used
>> by non-English communities, where English is also undesirable and very
>> unlikey to be understood correctly: we are in the area of usability of the
>> software).
>>
>> So no, I don't support you too limited POV.
>
> Hi Philippe,
>
> I don't really disagree with anything I say,

... you say. Sorry.

(In hindsight, I disagree with a lot of things I've said, of course.)

//Johan Jönsson
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Re: Ready for early translation: Tech News #05 (2017)

Mathieu Stumpf Guntz
In reply to this post by Johan Jönsson-2

Just finished this one for Esperanto, a beat off the deadline, but I wasn't able to progress on that sooner.


Le 26/01/2017 à 22:19, Johan Jönsson a écrit :
The latest tech newsletter is ready for early translation:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Tech/News/2017/05

Direct translation link:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Translate&group=page-Tech%2FNews%2F2017%2F05&action=page

I'm planning to send the newsletter on Monday afternoon (UTC), i.e.
Monday morning PT. The existing translations will be posted on the
wikis in that language. Deadlines:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Tech/News/For_contributors#The_deadlines

There may be a few more edits by Friday, but the existing content
should generally remain fairly stable. I will let you know on Friday
in any case.

Let me know if you have any questions, comments or concerns. As
always, I appreciate your help and feedback.

(If you did not translate Tech News last week, see this email:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/translators-l/2017-January/003773.html

Please do ask if there's anything I can help you with.)

//Johan Jönsson
--

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Re: Ready for early translation: Tech News #05 (2017)

Johan Jönsson-2
In reply to this post by Johan Jönsson-2
On Fri, Jan 27, 2017 at 4:06 PM, Johan Jönsson <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 10:19 PM, Johan Jönsson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> The latest tech newsletter is ready for early translation:
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Tech/News/2017/05
>>
>> Direct translation link:
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Translate&group=page-Tech%2FNews%2F2017%2F05&action=page
>>
>> I'm planning to send the newsletter on Monday afternoon (UTC), i.e.
>> Monday morning PT. The existing translations will be posted on the
>> wikis in that language. Deadlines:
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Tech/News/For_contributors#The_deadlines
>
> The text of the newsletter is now final. Three new items has been
> added since yesterday. There won't be any more changes; you can
> translate safely.

Thank you all for your help! It is deeply appreciated. The newsletter
has now been delivered (in 21 languages) to subscribers across wikis.

//Johan Jönsson
--

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Re: Ready for early translation: Tech News #05 (2017)

Vira Motorko
21, is it a new record?

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Help save natural resources – please think twice before printing this e-mail or any attachments.

2017-01-30 20:48 GMT+02:00 Johan Jönsson <[hidden email]>:
On Fri, Jan 27, 2017 at 4:06 PM, Johan Jönsson <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 10:19 PM, Johan Jönsson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> The latest tech newsletter is ready for early translation:
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Tech/News/2017/05
>>
>> Direct translation link:
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Translate&group=page-Tech%2FNews%2F2017%2F05&action=page
>>
>> I'm planning to send the newsletter on Monday afternoon (UTC), i.e.
>> Monday morning PT. The existing translations will be posted on the
>> wikis in that language. Deadlines:
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Tech/News/For_contributors#The_deadlines
>
> The text of the newsletter is now final. Three new items has been
> added since yesterday. There won't be any more changes; you can
> translate safely.

Thank you all for your help! It is deeply appreciated. The newsletter
has now been delivered (in 21 languages) to subscribers across wikis.

//Johan Jönsson
--

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Re: Ready for early translation: Tech News #05 (2017)

Johan Jönsson-2
On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 12:20 AM, Vira Motorko <[hidden email]> wrote:
21, is it a new record?

It is! Well done everyone!

//Johan Jönsson
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