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Registration payment options

Martijn Hoekstra
Currently the only payment method for registration as far as I can find is by credit card. Are more payment options planned and/or considered?

--Martijn

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Re: Registration payment options

Stuart Prior
Hi Martijn,

Yes, it is the only payment option. I appreciate that there are effective and commonly used bank transfer systems in some European countries, but our administrative capacity and the booking website meant we had to settle on one method of payment.

We did consider all options and various currency payment options, but we settled on credit card payments as the being most accessible method internationally and the simplest for us to administrate at this scale. 

I hope this doesn't prevent you from attending.

Best

Stuart



On 3 June 2014 11:26, Martijn Hoekstra <[hidden email]> wrote:
Currently the only payment method for registration as far as I can find is by credit card. Are more payment options planned and/or considered?

--Martijn

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+44 20 7065 0990

Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).

Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.


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Re: Registration payment options

Risker
If there is any way to include a Paypal option, I think it would be very helpful.  Restriction to a credit card payment option may significantly impact younger or less wealthy attendees, particularly those not from the European/North American sphere.  Even I would prefer to use Paypal because the currency conversion costs are significantly lower than that charged by credit card companies.
 
Risker/Anne


On 4 June 2014 10:33, Stuart Prior <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Martijn,

Yes, it is the only payment option. I appreciate that there are effective and commonly used bank transfer systems in some European countries, but our administrative capacity and the booking website meant we had to settle on one method of payment.

We did consider all options and various currency payment options, but we settled on credit card payments as the being most accessible method internationally and the simplest for us to administrate at this scale. 

I hope this doesn't prevent you from attending.

Best

Stuart



On 3 June 2014 11:26, Martijn Hoekstra <[hidden email]> wrote:
Currently the only payment method for registration as far as I can find is by credit card. Are more payment options planned and/or considered?

--Martijn

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Stuart Prior
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Wikimedia UK
+44 20 7065 0990

Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).

Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.


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Re: Registration payment options

Steffen Prößdorf
Hi there,
 
we had this discussion with the attendees having a scholarship from WMDE already. In fact even in Germany not everyone of them own a credit card, so that we have to find ways that one pays for others.
I don't think that the limitation of only credit card payment is a very wise desicion. PayPal would be a reasonable add.
 
Best,
Steffen
 
 


2014-06-04 16:44 GMT+02:00 Risker <[hidden email]>:
If there is any way to include a Paypal option, I think it would be very helpful.  Restriction to a credit card payment option may significantly impact younger or less wealthy attendees, particularly those not from the European/North American sphere.  Even I would prefer to use Paypal because the currency conversion costs are significantly lower than that charged by credit card companies.
 
Risker/Anne


On 4 June 2014 10:33, Stuart Prior <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Martijn,

Yes, it is the only payment option. I appreciate that there are effective and commonly used bank transfer systems in some European countries, but our administrative capacity and the booking website meant we had to settle on one method of payment.

We did consider all options and various currency payment options, but we settled on credit card payments as the being most accessible method internationally and the simplest for us to administrate at this scale. 

I hope this doesn't prevent you from attending.

Best

Stuart



On 3 June 2014 11:26, Martijn Hoekstra <[hidden email]> wrote:
Currently the only payment method for registration as far as I can find is by credit card. Are more payment options planned and/or considered?

--Martijn

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Stuart Prior
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<a href="tel:%2B44%2020%207065%200990" target="_blank" value="+442070650990">+44 20 7065 0990

Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).

Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.






--
Steffen Prößdorf
Treasurer, member of the board
Wikimedia Germany - Association for the promotion of free knowledge
http://wikimedia.de
Imagine a world, in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge. That‘s our commitment.

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Re: Registration payment options

Martijn Hoekstra
In reply to this post by Stuart Prior



On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 4:33 PM, Stuart Prior <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Martijn,

Yes, it is the only payment option. I appreciate that there are effective and commonly used bank transfer systems in some European countries, but our administrative capacity and the booking website meant we had to settle on one method of payment.

We did consider all options and various currency payment options, but we settled on credit card payments as the being most accessible method internationally and the simplest for us to administrate at this scale. 

I hope this doesn't prevent you from attending.

Best

Stuart

Hi Stuart,

Prevent, no. I can get a pre-paid mastercard from paypal through snail mail, or order one from my bank, which is also a lot more convenient for accommodation booking. But it is definitely a hindrance. 



On 3 June 2014 11:26, Martijn Hoekstra <[hidden email]> wrote:
Currently the only payment method for registration as far as I can find is by credit card. Are more payment options planned and/or considered?

--Martijn

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Stuart Prior
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Wikimedia UK
<a href="tel:%2B44%2020%207065%200990" value="+442070650990" target="_blank">+44 20 7065 0990

Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).

Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.


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Re: Registration payment options

Joseph Fox
In reply to this post by Steffen Prößdorf
For what it’s worth, I managed to pay with my Visa debit card from Denmark.

best
Joe

On 4 June 2014 at 04:01:01 pm, Steffen Prößdorf ([hidden email]) wrote:

Hi there,
 
we had this discussion with the attendees having a scholarship from WMDE already. In fact even in Germany not everyone of them own a credit card, so that we have to find ways that one pays for others.
I don't think that the limitation of only credit card payment is a very wise desicion. PayPal would be a reasonable add.
 
Best,
Steffen
 
 


2014-06-04 16:44 GMT+02:00 Risker <[hidden email]>:
If there is any way to include a Paypal option, I think it would be very helpful.  Restriction to a credit card payment option may significantly impact younger or less wealthy attendees, particularly those not from the European/North American sphere.  Even I would prefer to use Paypal because the currency conversion costs are significantly lower than that charged by credit card companies.
 
Risker/Anne


On 4 June 2014 10:33, Stuart Prior <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Martijn,

Yes, it is the only payment option. I appreciate that there are effective and commonly used bank transfer systems in some European countries, but our administrative capacity and the booking website meant we had to settle on one method of payment.

We did consider all options and various currency payment options, but we settled on credit card payments as the being most accessible method internationally and the simplest for us to administrate at this scale. 

I hope this doesn't prevent you from attending.

Best

Stuart



On 3 June 2014 11:26, Martijn Hoekstra <[hidden email]> wrote:
Currently the only payment method for registration as far as I can find is by credit card. Are more payment options planned and/or considered?

--Martijn

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--
Stuart Prior
Wikimania Liaison
Wikimedia UK
<a href="tel:%2B44%2020%207065%200990" target="_blank" value="+442070650990">+44 20 7065 0990

Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).

Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.






--
Steffen Prößdorf
Treasurer, member of the board
Wikimedia Germany - Association for the promotion of free knowledge
http://wikimedia.de
Imagine a world, in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge. That‘s our commitment.
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Re: Registration payment options

Federico Leva (Nemo)
In reply to this post by Stuart Prior
Stuart Prior, 04/06/2014 16:33:
> there are effective and commonly used bank transfer systems in some
> European countries

Some?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Euro_Payments_Area

Nemo

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Re: Registration payment options

Christopher Cooper-2
In reply to this post by Joseph Fox

As I’ve already mentioned on the wiki, I paid by debit card too, and I’m based in the UK. On the registration page on Eventbite there’s nothing to say that only credit cards are accepted, in fact it explicitly states Visa debit is accepted, so from what I can see, debit cards are fine. I know that in informal English when someone says “we accept credit card” that normally implicitly includes debit cards, but there is still a potential for confusion, and this seems to have thrown a few people here. I’m therefore editing the registration page to make things clearer.

 

 

From: Joseph Fox [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: 04 June 2014 16:02
To: Wikimania general list (open subscription)
Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Registration payment options

 

For what it’s worth, I managed to pay with my Visa debit card from Denmark.

 

best

Joe

 

On 4 June 2014 at 04:01:01 pm, Steffen Prößdorf ([hidden email]) wrote:

Hi there,

 

we had this discussion with the attendees having a scholarship from WMDE already. In fact even in Germany not everyone of them own a credit card, so that we have to find ways that one pays for others.

I don't think that the limitation of only credit card payment is a very wise desicion. PayPal would be a reasonable add.

 

Best,

Steffen

 

 

 

2014-06-04 16:44 GMT+02:00 Risker <[hidden email]>:

If there is any way to include a Paypal option, I think it would be very helpful.  Restriction to a credit card payment option may significantly impact younger or less wealthy attendees, particularly those not from the European/North American sphere.  Even I would prefer to use Paypal because the currency conversion costs are significantly lower than that charged by credit card companies.

 

Risker/Anne

 

On 4 June 2014 10:33, Stuart Prior <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Martijn,

Yes, it is the only payment option. I appreciate that there are effective and commonly used bank transfer systems in some European countries, but our administrative capacity and the booking website meant we had to settle on one method of payment.


We did consider all options and various currency payment options, but we settled on credit card payments as the being most accessible method internationally and the simplest for us to administrate at this scale. 

I hope this doesn't prevent you from attending.

Best

 

Stuart

 

On 3 June 2014 11:26, Martijn Hoekstra <[hidden email]> wrote:

Currently the only payment method for registration as far as I can find is by credit card. Are more payment options planned and/or considered?

 

--Martijn

 

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--

Stuart Prior

Wikimania Liaison

Wikimedia UK

<a href="tel:%2B44%2020%207065%200990" target="_blank">+44 20 7065 0990

Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).

Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.

 




--
Steffen Prößdorf
Treasurer, member of the board
Wikimedia Germany - Association for the promotion of free knowledge
http://wikimedia.de
Imagine a world, in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge. That‘s our commitment.

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-- 
Joseph Fox
Sent with Airmail


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Re: Registration payment options

Joseph Fox
Pretty sure the difference is that in the US, “debit cards” as we Brits know them are rare.

Joe

On 4 June 2014 at 06:13:12 pm, Christopher Cooper ([hidden email]) wrote:

As I’ve already mentioned on the wiki, I paid by debit card too, and I’m based in the UK. On the registration page on Eventbite there’s nothing to say that only credit cards are accepted, in fact it explicitly states Visa debit is accepted, so from what I can see, debit cards are fine. I know that in informal English when someone says “we accept credit card” that normally implicitly includes debit cards, but there is still a potential for confusion, and this seems to have thrown a few people here. I’m therefore editing the registration page to make things clearer.

 

 

From: Joseph Fox [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: 04 June 2014 16:02
To: Wikimania general list (open subscription)
Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Registration payment options

 

For what it’s worth, I managed to pay with my Visa debit card from Denmark.

 

best

Joe

 

On 4 June 2014 at 04:01:01 pm, Steffen Prößdorf ([hidden email]) wrote:

Hi there,

 

we had this discussion with the attendees having a scholarship from WMDE already. In fact even in Germany not everyone of them own a credit card, so that we have to find ways that one pays for others.

I don't think that the limitation of only credit card payment is a very wise desicion. PayPal would be a reasonable add.

 

Best,

Steffen

 

 

 

2014-06-04 16:44 GMT+02:00 Risker <[hidden email]>:

If there is any way to include a Paypal option, I think it would be very helpful.  Restriction to a credit card payment option may significantly impact younger or less wealthy attendees, particularly those not from the European/North American sphere.  Even I would prefer to use Paypal because the currency conversion costs are significantly lower than that charged by credit card companies.

 

Risker/Anne

 

On 4 June 2014 10:33, Stuart Prior <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Martijn,

Yes, it is the only payment option. I appreciate that there are effective and commonly used bank transfer systems in some European countries, but our administrative capacity and the booking website meant we had to settle on one method of payment.


We did consider all options and various currency payment options, but we settled on credit card payments as the being most accessible method internationally and the simplest for us to administrate at this scale. 

I hope this doesn't prevent you from attending.

Best

 

Stuart

 

On 3 June 2014 11:26, Martijn Hoekstra <[hidden email]> wrote:

Currently the only payment method for registration as far as I can find is by credit card. Are more payment options planned and/or considered?

 

--Martijn

 

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--

Stuart Prior

Wikimania Liaison

Wikimedia UK

<a href="tel:%2B44%2020%207065%200990" target="_blank">+44 20 7065 0990

Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).

Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.

 




--
Steffen Prößdorf
Treasurer, member of the board
Wikimedia Germany - Association for the promotion of free knowledge
http://wikimedia.de
Imagine a world, in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge. That‘s our commitment.

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Joseph Fox
Sent with Airmail

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Re: Registration payment options

Michael Snow-5
On 6/4/2014 10:14 AM, Joseph Fox wrote:
Pretty sure the difference is that in the US, “debit cards” as we Brits know them are rare.
Not at all, debit cards are a routine feature for checking accounts in the US. But yes, if your debit card has a logo for one of the big payment processors, then most merchants displaying that logo should be able to accept it, even if their transactions use a credit function rather than the debit function.

--Michael Snow

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Re: Registration payment options

Roan Kattouw-2

On Jun 4, 2014 10:37 AM, "Michael Snow" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 6/4/2014 10:14 AM, Joseph Fox wrote:
>>
>> Pretty sure the difference is that in the US, “debit cards” as we Brits know them are rare.
>
> Not at all, debit cards are a routine feature for checking accounts in the US. But yes, if your debit card has a logo for one of the big payment processors, then most merchants displaying that logo should be able to accept it, even if their transactions use a credit function rather than the debit function.
>
The problem is that in many continental European countries, MasterCard/Visa cards with 16-digit numbers etc are things that most people don't have. Payments are made using chip&PIN cards or bank transfer.

I've always been baffled by how hesitant UK-based individuals and companies are to give me their bank account information (so I can send them money), citing security concerns.

Roan


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Re: Registration payment options

Richard Symonds-3
Roan,

I don't mean to sound daft, but Chip & PIN cards are (at least here) MasterCard/Visa cards with 16-digit numbers. The two are the same?

The reason people are cautious about giving out bank details is because of things like this: http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/hoax/weblog/permalink/clarksons_account_gets_hacked/ ...

Richard Symonds
Wikimedia UK
0207 065 0992

Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).

Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.



On 4 June 2014 18:58, Roan Kattouw <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Jun 4, 2014 10:37 AM, "Michael Snow" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 6/4/2014 10:14 AM, Joseph Fox wrote:
>>
>> Pretty sure the difference is that in the US, “debit cards” as we Brits know them are rare.
>
> Not at all, debit cards are a routine feature for checking accounts in the US. But yes, if your debit card has a logo for one of the big payment processors, then most merchants displaying that logo should be able to accept it, even if their transactions use a credit function rather than the debit function.
>
The problem is that in many continental European countries, MasterCard/Visa cards with 16-digit numbers etc are things that most people don't have. Payments are made using chip&PIN cards or bank transfer.

I've always been baffled by how hesitant UK-based individuals and companies are to give me their bank account information (so I can send them money), citing security concerns.

Roan


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Re: Registration payment options

Martijn Hoekstra



On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 8:03 PM, Richard Symonds <[hidden email]> wrote:
Roan,

I don't mean to sound daft, but Chip & PIN cards are (at least here) MasterCard/Visa cards with 16-digit numbers. The two are the same?

Unfortunately (at least here), no.

--Martijn
 

The reason people are cautious about giving out bank details is because of things like this: http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/hoax/weblog/permalink/clarksons_account_gets_hacked/ ...

Richard Symonds
Wikimedia UK
0207 065 0992

Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).

Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.



On 4 June 2014 18:58, Roan Kattouw <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Jun 4, 2014 10:37 AM, "Michael Snow" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 6/4/2014 10:14 AM, Joseph Fox wrote:
>>
>> Pretty sure the difference is that in the US, “debit cards” as we Brits know them are rare.
>
> Not at all, debit cards are a routine feature for checking accounts in the US. But yes, if your debit card has a logo for one of the big payment processors, then most merchants displaying that logo should be able to accept it, even if their transactions use a credit function rather than the debit function.
>
The problem is that in many continental European countries, MasterCard/Visa cards with 16-digit numbers etc are things that most people don't have. Payments are made using chip&PIN cards or bank transfer.

I've always been baffled by how hesitant UK-based individuals and companies are to give me their bank account information (so I can send them money), citing security concerns.

Roan


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Re: Registration payment options

Roan Kattouw-2
In reply to this post by Richard Symonds-3

On Jun 4, 2014 11:04 AM, "Richard Symonds" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Roan,
>
> I don't mean to sound daft, but Chip & PIN cards are (at least here) MasterCard/Visa cards with 16-digit numbers. The two are the same?
>
They are in the UK, but not elsewhere. I have a Dutch chip&PIN card that works at UK stores but has no 16-digit number or anything else that lets you use it on line.

> The reason people are cautious about giving out bank details is because of things like this: http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/hoax/weblog/permalink/clarksons_account_gets_hacked/ ...

Wow. That's really bad. I'm surprised the center of the financial universe doesn't have a better system. Publishing bank details is common in .nl and direct debit fraud is rare (and harshly punished).

On topic: credit card penetration is lower than you (people living in counties where credit cards are ubiquitous) think. Even in many developed countries, even in places close to the UK, the average Joe does not have a credit card (or something compatible like a MC/Visa debit card). People only get them for international travel to certain countries, international payments to those countries, business-related reasons, that kind of stuff. Getting one takes time, and finding someone who already has one isn't always feasible. I recommend adding PayPal as a payment option.

Roan


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Re: Registration payment options

Risker
In reply to this post by Richard Symonds-3
From the Canadian perspective, people can have credit cards (16 digit chip & PIN for Visa/Mastercard, others only 16 digits) and/or bank/interact debit cards (also 16 digit chip&PIN).  The former are able to be used online; debit cards are for in-person transactions with very, very few exceptions.
 
Visa and Mastercard offer prepaid debit cards; however, their purchase fee is typically 10% of the value of the card (a $500 card costs $50) and the currency exchange rates and service charges associated with using a different currency is usually double or triple what banks or Paypal charge.  The *real* cost of Wikimania registration using one of those debit cards would be approximately 40% higher than the face value of what Wikimania was actually charging. 
 
Unless I miss my guess, scholarships are being paid to people via Paypal.  I think that really points to the necessity of accepting at least Paypal as an acceptable alternative payment. 
 
Risker


On 4 June 2014 14:03, Richard Symonds <[hidden email]> wrote:
Roan,

I don't mean to sound daft, but Chip & PIN cards are (at least here) MasterCard/Visa cards with 16-digit numbers. The two are the same?

The reason people are cautious about giving out bank details is because of things like this: http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/hoax/weblog/permalink/clarksons_account_gets_hacked/ ...

Richard Symonds
Wikimedia UK
0207 065 0992

Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).

Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.



On 4 June 2014 18:58, Roan Kattouw <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Jun 4, 2014 10:37 AM, "Michael Snow" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 6/4/2014 10:14 AM, Joseph Fox wrote:
>>
>> Pretty sure the difference is that in the US, “debit cards” as we Brits know them are rare.
>
> Not at all, debit cards are a routine feature for checking accounts in the US. But yes, if your debit card has a logo for one of the big payment processors, then most merchants displaying that logo should be able to accept it, even if their transactions use a credit function rather than the debit function.
>
The problem is that in many continental European countries, MasterCard/Visa cards with 16-digit numbers etc are things that most people don't have. Payments are made using chip&PIN cards or bank transfer.

I've always been baffled by how hesitant UK-based individuals and companies are to give me their bank account information (so I can send them money), citing security concerns.

Roan


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Re: Registration payment options

James Alexander-4
I know from when I was in fundraising there is an enormous amount of people in Europe (and elsewhere obviously but an enormous amount of people who wanted to donate in Europe) who didn't have credit cards and required other ways to pay (we, luckily, had paypal but even then we had to start adding other payment options). Debit cards were a weird bunch depending on the country, even where they had the visa/mastercard logo they would often not work in large chunks (most of the debit cards coming from India and Brazil for example).

James Alexander
Legal and Community Advocacy
Wikimedia Foundation
(415) 839-6885 x6716 @jamesofur


On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 11:36 AM, Risker <[hidden email]> wrote:
From the Canadian perspective, people can have credit cards (16 digit chip & PIN for Visa/Mastercard, others only 16 digits) and/or bank/interact debit cards (also 16 digit chip&PIN).  The former are able to be used online; debit cards are for in-person transactions with very, very few exceptions.
 
Visa and Mastercard offer prepaid debit cards; however, their purchase fee is typically 10% of the value of the card (a $500 card costs $50) and the currency exchange rates and service charges associated with using a different currency is usually double or triple what banks or Paypal charge.  The *real* cost of Wikimania registration using one of those debit cards would be approximately 40% higher than the face value of what Wikimania was actually charging. 
 
Unless I miss my guess, scholarships are being paid to people via Paypal.  I think that really points to the necessity of accepting at least Paypal as an acceptable alternative payment. 
 
Risker


On 4 June 2014 14:03, Richard Symonds <[hidden email]> wrote:
Roan,

I don't mean to sound daft, but Chip & PIN cards are (at least here) MasterCard/Visa cards with 16-digit numbers. The two are the same?

The reason people are cautious about giving out bank details is because of things like this: http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/hoax/weblog/permalink/clarksons_account_gets_hacked/ ...

Richard Symonds
Wikimedia UK
0207 065 0992

Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).

Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.



On 4 June 2014 18:58, Roan Kattouw <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Jun 4, 2014 10:37 AM, "Michael Snow" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 6/4/2014 10:14 AM, Joseph Fox wrote:
>>
>> Pretty sure the difference is that in the US, “debit cards” as we Brits know them are rare.
>
> Not at all, debit cards are a routine feature for checking accounts in the US. But yes, if your debit card has a logo for one of the big payment processors, then most merchants displaying that logo should be able to accept it, even if their transactions use a credit function rather than the debit function.
>
The problem is that in many continental European countries, MasterCard/Visa cards with 16-digit numbers etc are things that most people don't have. Payments are made using chip&PIN cards or bank transfer.

I've always been baffled by how hesitant UK-based individuals and companies are to give me their bank account information (so I can send them money), citing security concerns.

Roan


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Re: Registration payment options

Austin Hair
In reply to this post by Richard Symonds-3
On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 8:03 PM, Richard Symonds
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> I don't mean to sound daft, but Chip & PIN cards are (at least here)
> MasterCard/Visa cards with 16-digit numbers. The two are the same?

While usually true in the U.S. and UK, this isn't the norm for most of
the world. (Yes, I learned this the hard way.)

Assumptions about the availability of various payment systems have
been a thorn in the side for many Wikimanias—for instance, I remember
having to explain that bank transfers aren't just uncommon in the
U.S., but actually inconvenient and often expensive. To be fair, most
people have never had to think about payment processing on a global
scale, and assumptions you learned to make five years ago may not hold
true today.

I wasn't planning to pay using a credit card, but at least I'm
fortunate enough to have that option available to me. Many others
won't—the Netherlands isn't exactly a technologically isolated
country, but revolving lines of credit aren't something your average
student here will routinely have (for instance), and our banking
system isn't centered around the credit card network. It's not my
headache, this year, but I urge the organization team to reconsider
this decision.

Austin

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Re: Registration payment options

Maarten Dammers
In reply to this post by Stuart Prior
Dear Stuart,

Stuart Prior schreef op 4-6-2014 16:33:
Yes, it is the only payment option. I appreciate that there are effective and commonly used bank transfer systems in some European countries, but our administrative capacity and the booking website meant we had to settle on one method of payment.
This means it becomes very hard for a lot of people to pay this. I could provide anecdotal evidence about how I never (maybe once?) used a credit card in the Netherlands, but I found something much more fun: http://sdw.ecb.europa.eu/reports.do?node=1000004051

Not providing an alternative payment method severely hinders the accessibility of the conference.

Maarten

Ps. Why don't we have a Wikipedia article about credit card usage per country? ;-)

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Re: Registration payment options

Mike Peel
Couldn't WMUK accept paypal/cheques/etc. through their standard donation mechanisms (e.g. via a special page on donate.wikimedia.org.uk) and forward them on to the Wikimania budget?

Thanks,
Mike

On 4 Jun 2014, at 20:54, Maarten Dammers <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Dear Stuart,
>
> Stuart Prior schreef op 4-6-2014 16:33:
>> Yes, it is the only payment option. I appreciate that there are effective and commonly used bank transfer systems in some European countries, but our administrative capacity and the           booking website meant we had to settle on one method of payment.
> This means it becomes very hard for a lot of people to pay this. I could provide anecdotal evidence about how I never (maybe once?) used a credit card in the Netherlands, but I found something much more fun: http://sdw.ecb.europa.eu/reports.do?node=1000004051 
>
> Not providing an alternative payment method severely hinders the accessibility of the conference.
>
> Maarten
>
> Ps. Why don't we have a Wikipedia article about credit card usage per country? ;-)
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list
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Re: Registration payment options

Aude-2
In reply to this post by Austin Hair
On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 8:41 PM, Austin Hair <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 8:03 PM, Richard Symonds
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> I don't mean to sound daft, but Chip & PIN cards are (at least here)
> MasterCard/Visa cards with 16-digit numbers. The two are the same?

While usually true in the U.S. and UK, this isn't the norm for most of
the world. (Yes, I learned this the hard way.)

+1

It is a headache for me to pay via credit card (send euros to the US, with bank fee / exchange penalty), then pay penalty again to pay in pounds or whatnot from US $.  Doing this is a big pet peeve and only do with great hesitation and very good reason.

Paypal is also problematic for me in europe and not an option (although it works for most people apparently)

Bank transfer would be the way to go. (me send money to Wikimedia UK or somewhere trusted)


would that be an option?

Cheers,
Katie
 

Assumptions about the availability of various payment systems have
been a thorn in the side for many Wikimanias—for instance, I remember
having to explain that bank transfers aren't just uncommon in the
U.S., but actually inconvenient and often expensive. To be fair, most
people have never had to think about payment processing on a global
scale, and assumptions you learned to make five years ago may not hold
true today.

I wasn't planning to pay using a credit card, but at least I'm
fortunate enough to have that option available to me. Many others
won't—the Netherlands isn't exactly a technologically isolated
country, but revolving lines of credit aren't something your average
student here will routinely have (for instance), and our banking
system isn't centered around the credit card network. It's not my
headache, this year, but I urge the organization team to reconsider
this decision.

Austin

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--
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