Relaunch Chinese Wikinews poll?

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Relaunch Chinese Wikinews poll?

Erik Moeller-2
On February 7, 2005 we had a poll on Meta to gather opinions on how to
deal with the particular problem of whether to launch a Chinese language
edition of Wikinews or not. Back then, the main reason for not launching
the project was that it might jeopardize the Chinese Wikipedia, i.e.,
put it at risk of censorship. The poll was evenly split, with half
favoring launching the project given enough support (which it has), and
the other half wanting the decision to be left to the Chinese Wikipedia
community (which, incidentally, also voted 50/50):

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikinews/China

Exactly one year later, I think it might be a good idea to relaunch this
poll, with the old votes archived, given that the situation has changed
fundamentally. According to

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blocking_of_Wikipedia_in_mainland_China

Wikipedia has been censored in mainland China since October 2005.
Furthermore, we have all seen large search engines cave in to the
Chinese government in recent months. Interestingly enough, recent
reports note that Google China is being censored in spite of filtering
search results:

http://www.forbes.com/technology/feeds/afx/2006/02/03/afx2498050.html

To me, this indicates that it may simply not be possible to create an
encyclopedia written from the neutral point of view which will be
accepted by the current Chinese government. The question then becomes
whether it is legitimate for us to continue to put a resource on hold
that might be useful to millions of Chinese speakers outside the
mainland, i.e. Chinese Wikinews.

So, are there any objections to relaunching this poll, or alternative
suggestions on how to proceed? I think the "wait and see" approach has
gone on long enough.

Best,

Erik
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[Foundation-l] Re: Relaunch Chinese Wikinews poll?

Florence Devouard-3
Erik Moeller wrote:

> On February 7, 2005 we had a poll on Meta to gather opinions on how to
> deal with the particular problem of whether to launch a Chinese language
> edition of Wikinews or not. Back then, the main reason for not launching
> the project was that it might jeopardize the Chinese Wikipedia, i.e.,
> put it at risk of censorship. The poll was evenly split, with half
> favoring launching the project given enough support (which it has), and
> the other half wanting the decision to be left to the Chinese Wikipedia
> community (which, incidentally, also voted 50/50):
>
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikinews/China
>
> Exactly one year later, I think it might be a good idea to relaunch this
> poll, with the old votes archived, given that the situation has changed
> fundamentally. According to
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blocking_of_Wikipedia_in_mainland_China
>
> Wikipedia has been censored in mainland China since October 2005.
> Furthermore, we have all seen large search engines cave in to the
> Chinese government in recent months. Interestingly enough, recent
> reports note that Google China is being censored in spite of filtering
> search results:
>
> http://www.forbes.com/technology/feeds/afx/2006/02/03/afx2498050.html
>
> To me, this indicates that it may simply not be possible to create an
> encyclopedia written from the neutral point of view which will be
> accepted by the current Chinese government. The question then becomes
> whether it is legitimate for us to continue to put a resource on hold
> that might be useful to millions of Chinese speakers outside the
> mainland, i.e. Chinese Wikinews.
>
> So, are there any objections to relaunching this poll, or alternative
> suggestions on how to proceed? I think the "wait and see" approach has
> gone on long enough.
>
> Best,
>
> Erik


Admittedly, the previous attitude which consisted of "not opening" the
chinese speaking wikinews to avoid China censoring our projects... makes
little sense now...

Actually, I am concerned...

We currently claim this : "Imagine a world in which every single person
is given free access to the sum of all human knowledge. That's what
we're doing."

Unfortunately, I feel it is not true. That might be what we are *trying*
to do, or what we are *aiming* to do.

But if we are frank with ourselves, we are currently putting most of our
energy "in giving free access to a lot of knowledge to people who could
mostly access this knowledge without us".

Granted, we simplify the access to knowledge to many. We collect the
info. We organise it. We put all our attention in giving non biaised
information. And this is already really great.
But we mostly give information to those who have internet access and if
they made a bit of effort, they could actually find this information all
by themselves. At least for major languages.

In short, we facilitate access to information for those who *already*
can access it.


What we do not do is:
* We do not *improve* access to those who do not have access to
information now
* And we do not make *every effort* to collect the sum of human knowledge.

The best example being precisely chinese (main land) knowledge that we
do not collect and chinese (main land) end users which we do not inform.

ant

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Re: Relaunch Chinese Wikinews poll?

Amgine
In reply to this post by Erik Moeller-2
I have already contacted some of the people involved in the original
zh.wikinews proposal. They have re-examined the project with an eye
toward updating the policy pages, templates, and layout. It appears the
project meets the required number of volunteers, has moved through
pre-launch process (twice), and is ready to be created.

Amgine


Erik Moeller wrote:

> On February 7, 2005 we had a poll on Meta to gather opinions on how to
> deal with the particular problem of whether to launch a Chinese
> language edition of Wikinews or not. Back then, the main reason for
> not launching the project was that it might jeopardize the Chinese
> Wikipedia, i.e., put it at risk of censorship. The poll was evenly
> split, with half favoring launching the project given enough support
> (which it has), and the other half wanting the decision to be left to
> the Chinese Wikipedia community (which, incidentally, also voted 50/50):
>
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikinews/China
>
> Exactly one year later, I think it might be a good idea to relaunch
> this poll, with the old votes archived, given that the situation has
> changed fundamentally. According to
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blocking_of_Wikipedia_in_mainland_China
>
> Wikipedia has been censored in mainland China since October 2005.
> Furthermore, we have all seen large search engines cave in to the
> Chinese government in recent months. Interestingly enough, recent
> reports note that Google China is being censored in spite of filtering
> search results:
>
> http://www.forbes.com/technology/feeds/afx/2006/02/03/afx2498050.html
>
> To me, this indicates that it may simply not be possible to create an
> encyclopedia written from the neutral point of view which will be
> accepted by the current Chinese government. The question then becomes
> whether it is legitimate for us to continue to put a resource on hold
> that might be useful to millions of Chinese speakers outside the
> mainland, i.e. Chinese Wikinews.
>
> So, are there any objections to relaunching this poll, or alternative
> suggestions on how to proceed? I think the "wait and see" approach has
> gone on long enough.
>
> Best,
>
> Erik
> _______________________________________________
> Wikinews-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l
>
>

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[Foundation-l] Re: Relaunch Chinese Wikinews poll?

Jimmy Wales
In reply to this post by Erik Moeller-2
I would strongly support doing a new set of polls but before we do we
need to work out exactly what we are asking the community to decide, and
what the parameters of the decision will be.

The decision not to start Chinese Wikinews was, in my view, one which
the community took out of respect for the strength and openness of
Chinese Wikipedia, and the (valid) concerns of that community.  Things
have changed now, of course, and it is good to reassess.

What I'm personally looking for is broad support from both the Chinese
Wikipedia community *and* from the entire community before we start it.

Some Chinese Wikipedians may believe that the block will be lifted if we
continue the current strategy.  They would presumably argue that now is
the *worst* possible time to open Chinese Wikinews.  Others will argue
that "Well, we're blocked anyway, might as well go for it."

Anything we do should be thoughtful about what those community members need.

--Jimbo

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Re: [Foundation-l] Re: Relaunch Chinese Wikinews poll?

Erik Moeller-2
OK, I've created a brainstorming page on

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikinews/China_2

to design a poll or set of polls to deal with the issue. I think all
votes should take place on Meta rather than Wikipedia, since there
already is Chinese Wikiquote, Chinese Wikisource, Chinese Wiktionary,
Chinese Wikicommons, Chinese Wikispecies, and Chinese Wikibooks, and it
wouldn't be fair to potentially exclude people who are members of any of
these communities, but not of the Chinese Wikipedia.

Erik
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Re: Re: Relaunch Chinese Wikinews poll?

Brian Wolff
In reply to this post by Florence Devouard-3
I'm glad that the chinese wikinews is going forward. Eventhough I don't speak chinese, I feel its very important to have it in that language. There is still a huge chunk of people who speak chinese and use wikipedia.

--
- Bawolff
Caution: The mass of this product contains the energy equivalent of 85 million tons of TNT per net ounce of weight.

On 04/02/06, Anthere <[hidden email]> wrote:
Erik Moeller wrote:

> On February 7, 2005 we had a poll on Meta to gather opinions on how to
> deal with the particular problem of whether to launch a Chinese language
> edition of Wikinews or not. Back then, the main reason for not launching
> the project was that it might jeopardize the Chinese Wikipedia, i.e.,
> put it at risk of censorship. The poll was evenly split, with half
> favoring launching the project given enough support (which it has), and
> the other half wanting the decision to be left to the Chinese Wikipedia
> community (which, incidentally, also voted 50/50):
>
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikinews/China
>
> Exactly one year later, I think it might be a good idea to relaunch this
> poll, with the old votes archived, given that the situation has changed
> fundamentally. According to
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blocking_of_Wikipedia_in_mainland_China

>
> Wikipedia has been censored in mainland China since October 2005.
> Furthermore, we have all seen large search engines cave in to the
> Chinese government in recent months. Interestingly enough, recent
> reports note that Google China is being censored in spite of filtering
> search results:
>
> http://www.forbes.com/technology/feeds/afx/2006/02/03/afx2498050.html
>
> To me, this indicates that it may simply not be possible to create an
> encyclopedia written from the neutral point of view which will be
> accepted by the current Chinese government. The question then becomes
> whether it is legitimate for us to continue to put a resource on hold
> that might be useful to millions of Chinese speakers outside the
> mainland, i.e. Chinese Wikinews.
>
> So, are there any objections to relaunching this poll, or alternative
> suggestions on how to proceed? I think the "wait and see" approach has
> gone on long enough.
>
> Best,
>
> Erik


Admittedly, the previous attitude which consisted of "not opening" the
chinese speaking wikinews to avoid China censoring our projects... makes
little sense now...

Actually, I am concerned...

We currently claim this : "Imagine a world in which every single person
is given free access to the sum of all human knowledge. That's what
we're doing."

Unfortunately, I feel it is not true. That might be what we are *trying*
to do, or what we are *aiming* to do.

But if we are frank with ourselves, we are currently putting most of our
energy "in giving free access to a lot of knowledge to people who could
mostly access this knowledge without us".

Granted, we simplify the access to knowledge to many. We collect the
info. We organise it. We put all our attention in giving non biaised
information. And this is already really great.
But we mostly give information to those who have internet access and if
they made a bit of effort, they could actually find this information all
by themselves. At least for major languages.

In short, we facilitate access to information for those who *already*
can access it.


What we do not do is:
* We do not *improve* access to those who do not have access to
information now
* And we do not make *every effort* to collect the sum of human knowledge.

The best example being precisely chinese (main land) knowledge that we
do not collect and chinese (main land) end users which we do not inform.

ant

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Re: Re: Relaunch Chinese Wikinews poll?

divol
In reply to this post by Florence Devouard-3
Dear Anthere,

you're very right, but is it not the UNESCO job to help propagation  
and protect knowledge for everyone ?
Is it not a too BIG task for wikimédia ?

but i agree wikipédia and all the sisters projects are used and build  
by people having no problem with knowledge access . Not so Neutral ?

amitié,
jacques divol

Le 4 févr. 06 à 23:43, Anthere a écrit :

> Erik Moeller wrote:
>> On February 7, 2005 we had a poll on Meta to gather opinions on  
>> how to deal with the particular problem of whether to launch a  
>> Chinese language edition of Wikinews or not. Back then, the main  
>> reason for not launching the project was that it might jeopardize  
>> the Chinese Wikipedia, i.e., put it at risk of censorship. The  
>> poll was evenly split, with half favoring launching the project  
>> given enough support (which it has), and the other half wanting  
>> the decision to be left to the Chinese Wikipedia community (which,  
>> incidentally, also voted 50/50):
>> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikinews/China
>> Exactly one year later, I think it might be a good idea to  
>> relaunch this poll, with the old votes archived, given that the  
>> situation has changed fundamentally. According to
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blocking_of_Wikipedia_in_mainland_China
>> Wikipedia has been censored in mainland China since October 2005.  
>> Furthermore, we have all seen large search engines cave in to the  
>> Chinese government in recent months. Interestingly enough, recent  
>> reports note that Google China is being censored in spite of  
>> filtering search results:
>> http://www.forbes.com/technology/feeds/afx/2006/02/03/afx2498050.html
>> To me, this indicates that it may simply not be possible to create  
>> an encyclopedia written from the neutral point of view which will  
>> be accepted by the current Chinese government. The question then  
>> becomes whether it is legitimate for us to continue to put a  
>> resource on hold that might be useful to millions of Chinese  
>> speakers outside the mainland, i.e. Chinese Wikinews.
>> So, are there any objections to relaunching this poll, or  
>> alternative suggestions on how to proceed? I think the "wait and  
>> see" approach has gone on long enough.
>> Best,
>> Erik
>
>
> Admittedly, the previous attitude which consisted of "not opening"  
> the chinese speaking wikinews to avoid China censoring our  
> projects... makes little sense now...
>
> Actually, I am concerned...
>
> We currently claim this : "Imagine a world in which every single  
> person is given free access to the sum of all human knowledge.  
> That's what we're doing."
>
> Unfortunately, I feel it is not true. That might be what we are  
> *trying* to do, or what we are *aiming* to do.
>
> But if we are frank with ourselves, we are currently putting most  
> of our energy "in giving free access to a lot of knowledge to  
> people who could mostly access this knowledge without us".
>
> Granted, we simplify the access to knowledge to many. We collect  
> the info. We organise it. We put all our attention in giving non  
> biaised information. And this is already really great.
> But we mostly give information to those who have internet access  
> and if they made a bit of effort, they could actually find this  
> information all by themselves. At least for major languages.
>
> In short, we facilitate access to information for those who  
> *already* can access it.
>
>
> What we do not do is:
> * We do not *improve* access to those who do not have access to  
> information now
> * And we do not make *every effort* to collect the sum of human  
> knowledge.
>
> The best example being precisely chinese (main land) knowledge that  
> we do not collect and chinese (main land) end users which we do not  
> inform.
>
> ant
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikinews-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinews-l

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