Requesting input and feedback about a suggestion concerning providing access to Special:ImportTranslations to translators

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Requesting input and feedback about a suggestion concerning providing access to Special:ImportTranslations to translators

Haytham Aly

Dear translators,

I have a suggestion which requires feedback from fellow translators.

One of the features that translators can use on Meta is to export pages for off-line translation. This provides an opportunity to use term bases and translation memory to improve the quality of translations. The pages are exported into a .po file which can be translated by a variety of open-source and proprietary software.

The next step is to export the file to Meta. Since access to the page Special:ImportTranslations is only granted to Translation Administrators, and since I am not a Translation Administrator, I have to copy and paste the strings manually, which is a needlessly time-consuming process. There would be three ways to solve this issue. The first is to send the files to a Translation Administrator to be imported. This will mean that credit for translation will be given to the Administrator, and it will add more burdens to Translation Administrators and delay publication of translated pages. The second is to grant Translation Administrator rights to the translators who will need access to such page. This means that additional administration rights will be given to translators who will not be using them. The third is to create a group/category that grants access to translators to Special:ImportTranslations, which I consider the best option.

The purpose of this email to seek input from translators for this issue and try to reach a consensus about what would be the suitable way to address this issue.

Regards,

-- 
Haytham Abulela Aly

Freelance Translator
Creative Translation
"Creative & Confident"


Certified member of the Society of Translators and Interpreters of British Columbia (STIBC) (EN>AR)
Arab Professional Translators' Society member (#10850)
Certified member at Egyptian Translators Association (EGYTA)
Registered at ProZ.com and LinkedIn.com

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Re: Requesting input and feedback about a suggestion concerning providing access to Special:ImportTranslations to translators

Benoît Evellin (Trizek)
Hello Haytham

Thank you for that proposal. I'm replying in my personal capacity, not giving you a formal reply. 

I think the best option is to have more Translation Administrators (TA). Get that right is not really difficult, and it is justified to give access to advanced tools for advanced translators. That would also go faster than splitting an user right in smaller fragments. 

TA rights will also give you access to more tools that may be very useful: for instance if you fix a typo or add a translation variable in the source text, be a TA would allow you to mark the page for translation to immediately update the matching translation. 

I also think it would be great to have at least one TA for every language. That would help a lot to create small language thematic groups of translators with a certain autonomy - a future topic for that mailing-list.

Beginners who need to import/export translation elements would be required to show their talent and expertise first, with our good old translation system. Then they can ask for an extended tool (or be supported by a translation admin).

Best,
Benoît

On Wed, Mar 14, 2018 at 7:27 PM, Haytham Aly <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear translators,

I have a suggestion which requires feedback from fellow translators.

One of the features that translators can use on Meta is to export pages for off-line translation. This provides an opportunity to use term bases and translation memory to improve the quality of translations. The pages are exported into a .po file which can be translated by a variety of open-source and proprietary software.

The next step is to export the file to Meta. Since access to the page Special:ImportTranslations is only granted to Translation Administrators, and since I am not a Translation Administrator, I have to copy and paste the strings manually, which is a needlessly time-consuming process. There would be three ways to solve this issue. The first is to send the files to a Translation Administrator to be imported. This will mean that credit for translation will be given to the Administrator, and it will add more burdens to Translation Administrators and delay publication of translated pages. The second is to grant Translation Administrator rights to the translators who will need access to such page. This means that additional administration rights will be given to translators who will not be using them. The third is to create a group/category that grants access to translators to Special:ImportTranslations, which I consider the best option.

The purpose of this email to seek input from translators for this issue and try to reach a consensus about what would be the suitable way to address this issue.

Regards,

-- 
Haytham Abulela Aly

Freelance Translator
Creative Translation
"Creative & Confident"


Certified member of the Society of Translators and Interpreters of British Columbia (STIBC) (EN>AR)
Arab Professional Translators' Society member (#10850)
Certified member at Egyptian Translators Association (EGYTA)
Registered at ProZ.com and LinkedIn.com

_______________________________________________
Translators-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l




--
Benoît Evellin (Trizek)
Community Liaison
Wikimedia Foundation

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Re: Requesting input and feedback about a suggestion concerning providing access to Special:ImportTranslations to translators

Haytham Aly

Hi Benoît,

I wanted to avoid this option since it might confer additional rights to translators that they might not use, and also to avoid issues during annual audits. I do agree that creating an additional group that offers access to Special:ImportTranslations only will fragment user rights, but I thought this fragmentation is better than offering rights that will not be used.

Let's seek more input from other translators, and if we reach a consensus we can turn it into a proposal on Meta.

Regards,

Haytham Abulela Aly

Freelance Translator
Creative Translation
"Creative & Confident"


Certified member of the Society of Translators and Interpreters of British Columbia (STIBC) (EN>AR)
Arab Professional Translators' Society member (#10850)
Certified member at Egyptian Translators Association (EGYTA)
Registered at ProZ.com and LinkedIn.com
On 15/03/2018 2:06 AM, Benoît Evellin (Trizek) wrote:
Hello Haytham

Thank you for that proposal. I'm replying in my personal capacity, not giving you a formal reply. 

I think the best option is to have more Translation Administrators (TA). Get that right is not really difficult, and it is justified to give access to advanced tools for advanced translators. That would also go faster than splitting an user right in smaller fragments. 

TA rights will also give you access to more tools that may be very useful: for instance if you fix a typo or add a translation variable in the source text, be a TA would allow you to mark the page for translation to immediately update the matching translation. 

I also think it would be great to have at least one TA for every language. That would help a lot to create small language thematic groups of translators with a certain autonomy - a future topic for that mailing-list.

Beginners who need to import/export translation elements would be required to show their talent and expertise first, with our good old translation system. Then they can ask for an extended tool (or be supported by a translation admin).

Best,
Benoît

On Wed, Mar 14, 2018 at 7:27 PM, Haytham Aly <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear translators,

I have a suggestion which requires feedback from fellow translators.

One of the features that translators can use on Meta is to export pages for off-line translation. This provides an opportunity to use term bases and translation memory to improve the quality of translations. The pages are exported into a .po file which can be translated by a variety of open-source and proprietary software.

The next step is to export the file to Meta. Since access to the page Special:ImportTranslations is only granted to Translation Administrators, and since I am not a Translation Administrator, I have to copy and paste the strings manually, which is a needlessly time-consuming process. There would be three ways to solve this issue. The first is to send the files to a Translation Administrator to be imported. This will mean that credit for translation will be given to the Administrator, and it will add more burdens to Translation Administrators and delay publication of translated pages. The second is to grant Translation Administrator rights to the translators who will need access to such page. This means that additional administration rights will be given to translators who will not be using them. The third is to create a group/category that grants access to translators to Special:ImportTranslations, which I consider the best option.

The purpose of this email to seek input from translators for this issue and try to reach a consensus about what would be the suitable way to address this issue.

Regards,

-- 
Haytham Abulela Aly

Freelance Translator
Creative Translation
"Creative & Confident"


Certified member of the Society of Translators and Interpreters of British Columbia (STIBC) (EN>AR)
Arab Professional Translators' Society member (#10850)
Certified member at Egyptian Translators Association (EGYTA)
Registered at ProZ.com and LinkedIn.com

_______________________________________________
Translators-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l




--
Benoît Evellin (Trizek)
Community Liaison
Wikimedia Foundation

Virus-free. www.avg.com


_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
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Re: Requesting input and feedback about a suggestion concerning providing access to Special:ImportTranslations to translators

Pols12

Hi All,

I don’t know all features provided by Translation Admin. I would find nice that all autopatrolled user have Translation Admin rights. Mark a page for translation could be done by anyone, I think.

Regards,
Pols12


Le 15/03/2018 à 17:17, Haytham Aly a écrit :

Hi Benoît,

I wanted to avoid this option since it might confer additional rights to translators that they might not use, and also to avoid issues during annual audits. I do agree that creating an additional group that offers access to Special:ImportTranslations only will fragment user rights, but I thought this fragmentation is better than offering rights that will not be used.

Let's seek more input from other translators, and if we reach a consensus we can turn it into a proposal on Meta.

Regards,

Haytham Abulela Aly

Freelance Translator
Creative Translation
"Creative & Confident"


Certified member of the Society of Translators and Interpreters of British Columbia (STIBC) (EN>AR)
Arab Professional Translators' Society member (#10850)
Certified member at Egyptian Translators Association (EGYTA)
Registered at ProZ.com and LinkedIn.com
On 15/03/2018 2:06 AM, Benoît Evellin (Trizek) wrote:
Hello Haytham

Thank you for that proposal. I'm replying in my personal capacity, not giving you a formal reply. 

I think the best option is to have more Translation Administrators (TA). Get that right is not really difficult, and it is justified to give access to advanced tools for advanced translators. That would also go faster than splitting an user right in smaller fragments. 

TA rights will also give you access to more tools that may be very useful: for instance if you fix a typo or add a translation variable in the source text, be a TA would allow you to mark the page for translation to immediately update the matching translation. 

I also think it would be great to have at least one TA for every language. That would help a lot to create small language thematic groups of translators with a certain autonomy - a future topic for that mailing-list.

Beginners who need to import/export translation elements would be required to show their talent and expertise first, with our good old translation system. Then they can ask for an extended tool (or be supported by a translation admin).

Best,
Benoît

On Wed, Mar 14, 2018 at 7:27 PM, Haytham Aly <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear translators,

I have a suggestion which requires feedback from fellow translators.

One of the features that translators can use on Meta is to export pages for off-line translation. This provides an opportunity to use term bases and translation memory to improve the quality of translations. The pages are exported into a .po file which can be translated by a variety of open-source and proprietary software.

The next step is to export the file to Meta. Since access to the page Special:ImportTranslations is only granted to Translation Administrators, and since I am not a Translation Administrator, I have to copy and paste the strings manually, which is a needlessly time-consuming process. There would be three ways to solve this issue. The first is to send the files to a Translation Administrator to be imported. This will mean that credit for translation will be given to the Administrator, and it will add more burdens to Translation Administrators and delay publication of translated pages. The second is to grant Translation Administrator rights to the translators who will need access to such page. This means that additional administration rights will be given to translators who will not be using them. The third is to create a group/category that grants access to translators to Special:ImportTranslations, which I consider the best option.

The purpose of this email to seek input from translators for this issue and try to reach a consensus about what would be the suitable way to address this issue.

Regards,

-- 
Haytham Abulela Aly

Freelance Translator
Creative Translation
"Creative & Confident"


Certified member of the Society of Translators and Interpreters of British Columbia (STIBC) (EN>AR)
Arab Professional Translators' Society member (#10850)
Certified member at Egyptian Translators Association (EGYTA)
Registered at ProZ.com and LinkedIn.com

_______________________________________________
Translators-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l




--
Benoît Evellin (Trizek)
Community Liaison
Wikimedia Foundation

Virus-free. www.avg.com


_______________________________________________
Translators-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l



_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
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Re: Requesting input and feedback about a suggestion concerning providing access to Special:ImportTranslations to translators

Sylvain Chiron
In reply to this post by Haytham Aly
Hi,

Le 15/03/2018 à 17:17, Haytham Aly a écrit :
> I wanted to avoid this option since it might confer additional rights to
> translators that they might not use, and also to avoid issues during
> annual audits. I do agree that creating an additional group that offers
> access to Special:ImportTranslations only will fragment user rights, but
> I thought this fragmentation is better than offering rights that will
> not be used.

Why are you actually afraid about those unused rights? When a right
exists and is provided selectively, it’s just a flag for every user.
Each user can have the flag raised or not. If and only if it’s raised,
the user can use the right, but is not obliged to do so. The right can
also be coded as a tag that a user can have or not; it’s still few data.

Law also offers many rights to citizens that are, in the same manner,
never used.

Best regards,
--
Sylvain

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Re: Requesting input and feedback about a suggestion concerning providing access to Special:ImportTranslations to translators

mathieu lovato stumpf guntz
In reply to this post by Haytham Aly

An other option would be to allow anyone to upload the translated file, but require a validation to make it merged.

Thus said, this was just to add a larger set of options. Now I would surely warmly welcome any step that diminish any needless privilege to edit. If problems with a free edit/upload for all arise, it's fine to take apropriat measures, but blocking user contributions just because something might be abused is not fine, IMHO.

Cheers

Le 14/03/2018 à 19:27, Haytham Aly a écrit :

Dear translators,

I have a suggestion which requires feedback from fellow translators.

One of the features that translators can use on Meta is to export pages for off-line translation. This provides an opportunity to use term bases and translation memory to improve the quality of translations. The pages are exported into a .po file which can be translated by a variety of open-source and proprietary software.

The next step is to export the file to Meta. Since access to the page Special:ImportTranslations is only granted to Translation Administrators, and since I am not a Translation Administrator, I have to copy and paste the strings manually, which is a needlessly time-consuming process. There would be three ways to solve this issue. The first is to send the files to a Translation Administrator to be imported. This will mean that credit for translation will be given to the Administrator, and it will add more burdens to Translation Administrators and delay publication of translated pages. The second is to grant Translation Administrator rights to the translators who will need access to such page. This means that additional administration rights will be given to translators who will not be using them. The third is to create a group/category that grants access to translators to Special:ImportTranslations, which I consider the best option.

The purpose of this email to seek input from translators for this issue and try to reach a consensus about what would be the suitable way to address this issue.

Regards,

-- 
Haytham Abulela Aly

Freelance Translator
Creative Translation
"Creative & Confident"


Certified member of the Society of Translators and Interpreters of British Columbia (STIBC) (EN>AR)
Arab Professional Translators' Society member (#10850)
Certified member at Egyptian Translators Association (EGYTA)
Registered at ProZ.com and LinkedIn.com


_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
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Re: Requesting input and feedback about a suggestion concerning providing access to Special:ImportTranslations to translators

Johan Jönsson-2
In reply to this post by Sylvain Chiron
On Sat, Mar 17, 2018 at 11:40 PM, Sylvain Chiron <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

Le 15/03/2018 à 17:17, Haytham Aly a écrit :
> I wanted to avoid this option since it might confer additional rights to
> translators that they might not use, and also to avoid issues during
> annual audits. I do agree that creating an additional group that offers
> access to Special:ImportTranslations only will fragment user rights, but
> I thought this fragmentation is better than offering rights that will
> not be used.

Why are you actually afraid about those unused rights? When a right
exists and is provided selectively, it’s just a flag for every user.
Each user can have the flag raised or not. If and only if it’s raised,
the user can use the right, but is not obliged to do so. The right can
also be coded as a tag that a user can have or not; it’s still few data.

Law also offers many rights to citizens that are, in the same manner,
never used.

Also, the status quo is also an example of unused rights – I'm a translation admin and have never used Special:ImportTranslations, since that's not why I've got the rights. This is fairly common in the Wikimedia world. It's rare for a Wikimedia wiki admin to do everything one can do with the general sysop rights, for example. With that said, someone wanting to get the translation admin rights will normally be asked to demonstrate general knowledge of how to add translation tags and mark a page for translation, which might be a bit unnecessary to read up on if it's not what one wants to do. 

//Johan Jönsson
--

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Re: Requesting input and feedback about a suggestion concerning providing access to Special:ImportTranslations to translators

Haytham Aly

Dear translators,

Further to the below message exchange, I have decided to apply on Meta for Translation Administration rights. Please fell free to vote at https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meta:Requests_for_translation_adminship/Haytham_abulela.

Regards,

Haytham Abulela Aly

Freelance Translator
Creative Translation
"Creative & Confident"


Certified member of the Society of Translators and Interpreters of British Columbia (STIBC) (EN>AR)
Arab Professional Translators' Society member (#10850)
Certified member at Egyptian Translators Association (EGYTA)
Registered at ProZ.com and LinkedIn.com
On 27/03/2018 11:37 AM, Johan Jönsson wrote:
On Sat, Mar 17, 2018 at 11:40 PM, Sylvain Chiron <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

Le 15/03/2018 à 17:17, Haytham Aly a écrit :
> I wanted to avoid this option since it might confer additional rights to
> translators that they might not use, and also to avoid issues during
> annual audits. I do agree that creating an additional group that offers
> access to Special:ImportTranslations only will fragment user rights, but
> I thought this fragmentation is better than offering rights that will
> not be used.

Why are you actually afraid about those unused rights? When a right
exists and is provided selectively, it’s just a flag for every user.
Each user can have the flag raised or not. If and only if it’s raised,
the user can use the right, but is not obliged to do so. The right can
also be coded as a tag that a user can have or not; it’s still few data.

Law also offers many rights to citizens that are, in the same manner,
never used.

Also, the status quo is also an example of unused rights – I'm a translation admin and have never used Special:ImportTranslations, since that's not why I've got the rights. This is fairly common in the Wikimedia world. It's rare for a Wikimedia wiki admin to do everything one can do with the general sysop rights, for example. With that said, someone wanting to get the translation admin rights will normally be asked to demonstrate general knowledge of how to add translation tags and mark a page for translation, which might be a bit unnecessary to read up on if it's not what one wants to do. 

//Johan Jönsson
--

Virus-free. www.avg.com


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