Requiring PHP >= 5.3.3 for MediaWiki core

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Requiring PHP >= 5.3.3 for MediaWiki core

Legoktm
Hi,

As part of the librarization project[1], we are planning on taking the
CSSJanus library that is currently in includes/lib/ and bringing it in
with composer. However, it requires PHP >=5.3.3 in its composer.json[2].
Krinkle has stated[3] that is due to the fact that it has only been
tested on 5.3.3 and higher, and it's also what travis-ci provides.

After doing some research[4], it appears that we would be dropping
support for Ubuntu 10.04LTS, which has security support until April
2015. MediaWiki 1.25.0 is expected to be released in May 2015.

Does anyone have any objections to dropping 5.3.2 support? I've uploaded
[5] that actually increments the required version number.

Thanks,
-- Legoktm


[1] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Library_infrastructure_for_MediaWiki
[2] https://github.com/cssjanus/php-cssjanus/blob/master/composer.json
[3] https://github.com/cssjanus/php-cssjanus/pull/5#issuecomment-60069126
[4] https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T839#14160
[5] https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/168535


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Re: Requiring PHP >= 5.3.3 for MediaWiki core

MZMcBride-2
Legoktm wrote:
>Does anyone have any objections to dropping 5.3.2 support?

Hi.

Are there statistics about what versions of PHP exist in the wild among
MediaWiki users or users of other large PHP applications (Drupal,
WordPress, etc.)?

I'd prefer that we find/get PHP version metrics and set a usage threshold,
similar to what we do with Web browser support. I think this would
simplify future PHP compatibility discussions.

MZMcBride



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Re: Requiring PHP >= 5.3.3 for MediaWiki core

Daniel Friesen-2
On 2014-10-23 7:55 PM, MZMcBride wrote:
> Are there statistics about what versions of PHP exist in the wild among
> MediaWiki users or users of other large PHP applications (Drupal,
> WordPress, etc.)?
https://wikiapiary.com/wiki/PHP_Versions
https://wikiapiary.com/wiki/PHP_Versions/non-wmf

~Daniel Friesen (Dantman, Nadir-Seen-Fire) [http://danielfriesen.name/]


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Re: Requiring PHP >= 5.3.3 for MediaWiki core

Legoktm
In reply to this post by MZMcBride-2
On 10/23/14 7:55 PM, MZMcBride wrote:
> Are there statistics about what versions of PHP exist in the wild among
> MediaWiki users or users of other large PHP applications (Drupal,
> WordPress, etc.)?

WordPress has some graphs at [1]. They have a minimum requirement of 5.2.4.

For Drupal I found [2], but it doesn't say which PHP version is being
used. Drupal 7 requires 5.2.5 (but recommends 5.3), and Drupal 8
requires 5.4.

-- Legoktm

[1] https://wordpress.org/about/stats/
[2] https://www.drupal.org/project/usage/drupal

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Re: Requiring PHP >= 5.3.3 for MediaWiki core

Brian Wolff
In reply to this post by Daniel Friesen-2
On 10/24/14, Daniel Friesen <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 2014-10-23 7:55 PM, MZMcBride wrote:
>> Are there statistics about what versions of PHP exist in the wild among
>> MediaWiki users or users of other large PHP applications (Drupal,
>> WordPress, etc.)?
> https://wikiapiary.com/wiki/PHP_Versions
> https://wikiapiary.com/wiki/PHP_Versions/non-wmf
>
> ~Daniel Friesen (Dantman, Nadir-Seen-Fire) [http://danielfriesen.name/]
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

Specifically
https://wikiapiary.com/w/index.php?title=Special:SearchByProperty&offset=0&limit=500&property=Has+PHP+Version&value=5.3.2
specificly suggests there's currently about 489 such wikis that this
change could potentially affect (Unclear how many of those are active
or how many of those use even remotely modern versions of MW. My
SMW-fu is not strong enough to figure out how to query that)

--bawolff

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Re: Requiring PHP >= 5.3.3 for MediaWiki core

Stephan Gambke-2
https://wikiapiary.com/w/index.php?title=Special:Ask&offset=0&limit=500&q=[[Has+PHP+Version%3A%3A5.3.2]]&p=format%3Dbroadtable%2Flink%3Dall%2Fheaders%3Dshow%2Fsearchlabel%3D...-20further-20results%2Fclass%3Dsortable-20wikitable-20smwtable&po=%3FHas+MediaWiki+version%0A&sort=Has+MediaWiki+version&order=descending&eq=no

On 24 October 2014 05:52, Brian Wolff <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 10/24/14, Daniel Friesen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On 2014-10-23 7:55 PM, MZMcBride wrote:
>>> Are there statistics about what versions of PHP exist in the wild among
>>> MediaWiki users or users of other large PHP applications (Drupal,
>>> WordPress, etc.)?
>> https://wikiapiary.com/wiki/PHP_Versions
>> https://wikiapiary.com/wiki/PHP_Versions/non-wmf
>>
>> ~Daniel Friesen (Dantman, Nadir-Seen-Fire) [http://danielfriesen.name/]
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikitech-l mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
> Specifically
> https://wikiapiary.com/w/index.php?title=Special:SearchByProperty&offset=0&limit=500&property=Has+PHP+Version&value=5.3.2
> specificly suggests there's currently about 489 such wikis that this
> change could potentially affect (Unclear how many of those are active
> or how many of those use even remotely modern versions of MW. My
> SMW-fu is not strong enough to figure out how to query that)
>
> --bawolff
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

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Re: Requiring PHP >= 5.3.3 for MediaWiki core

Stephan Gambke-2
In reply to this post by Brian Wolff
Maybe somewhat more useful as distribution:
https://wikiapiary.com/w/index.php?title=Special:Ask&q=[[Has+PHP+Version%3A%3A5.3.2]]&p=format%3Djqplotchart%2Flink%3Dall%2Fheaders%3Dshow%2Fmainlabel%3D-2D%2Fsearchlabel%3D...-20further-20results%2Fdistribution%3D1%2Fdistributionsort%3Dnone%2Faggregation%3Dsubject%2Fdirection%3Dvertical%2Fheight%3D400%2Fwidth%3D100-25%2Fvalueformat%3D-25d%2Fticklabels%3D1%2Ffilling%3D1%2Fchartlegend%3Dnone%2Fdatalabels%3Dvalue%2Fcharttype%3Dbar&po=%3FHas+MediaWiki+version%0A&sort=Has+MediaWiki+version&order=descending&limit=500&eq=no

On 24 October 2014 05:52, Brian Wolff <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 10/24/14, Daniel Friesen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On 2014-10-23 7:55 PM, MZMcBride wrote:
>>> Are there statistics about what versions of PHP exist in the wild among
>>> MediaWiki users or users of other large PHP applications (Drupal,
>>> WordPress, etc.)?
>> https://wikiapiary.com/wiki/PHP_Versions
>> https://wikiapiary.com/wiki/PHP_Versions/non-wmf
>>
>> ~Daniel Friesen (Dantman, Nadir-Seen-Fire) [http://danielfriesen.name/]
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikitech-l mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
> Specifically
> https://wikiapiary.com/w/index.php?title=Special:SearchByProperty&offset=0&limit=500&property=Has+PHP+Version&value=5.3.2
> specificly suggests there's currently about 489 such wikis that this
> change could potentially affect (Unclear how many of those are active
> or how many of those use even remotely modern versions of MW. My
> SMW-fu is not strong enough to figure out how to query that)
>
> --bawolff
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

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Re: Requiring PHP >= 5.3.3 for MediaWiki core

Lewis Cawte
I was just thinking that'd be a good stat to look at.
So about 20 wikis running on REL_23 and 5 wikis that are running 5.3.2 that
are up to date on security releases for all current supported branches (+
one on an old WMF 1.24 branch)? Can we make assumptions based on that chart
if those wikis are likely to upgrade anyway?

-- Lewis Cawte

On 24 October 2014 08:56, Stephan Gambke <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Maybe somewhat more useful as distribution:
>
> https://wikiapiary.com/w/index.php?title=Special:Ask&q=[[Has+PHP+Version%3A%3A5.3.2]]&p=format%3Djqplotchart%2Flink%3Dall%2Fheaders%3Dshow%2Fmainlabel%3D-2D%2Fsearchlabel%3D...-20further-20results%2Fdistribution%3D1%2Fdistributionsort%3Dnone%2Faggregation%3Dsubject%2Fdirection%3Dvertical%2Fheight%3D400%2Fwidth%3D100-25%2Fvalueformat%3D-25d%2Fticklabels%3D1%2Ffilling%3D1%2Fchartlegend%3Dnone%2Fdatalabels%3Dvalue%2Fcharttype%3Dbar&po=%3FHas+MediaWiki+version%0A&sort=Has+MediaWiki+version&order=descending&limit=500&eq=no
>
> On 24 October 2014 05:52, Brian Wolff <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > On 10/24/14, Daniel Friesen <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> On 2014-10-23 7:55 PM, MZMcBride wrote:
> >>> Are there statistics about what versions of PHP exist in the wild among
> >>> MediaWiki users or users of other large PHP applications (Drupal,
> >>> WordPress, etc.)?
> >> https://wikiapiary.com/wiki/PHP_Versions
> >> https://wikiapiary.com/wiki/PHP_Versions/non-wmf
> >>
> >> ~Daniel Friesen (Dantman, Nadir-Seen-Fire) [http://danielfriesen.name/]
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Wikitech-l mailing list
> >> [hidden email]
> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> >
> > Specifically
> >
> https://wikiapiary.com/w/index.php?title=Special:SearchByProperty&offset=0&limit=500&property=Has+PHP+Version&value=5.3.2
> > specificly suggests there's currently about 489 such wikis that this
> > change could potentially affect (Unclear how many of those are active
> > or how many of those use even remotely modern versions of MW. My
> > SMW-fu is not strong enough to figure out how to query that)
> >
> > --bawolff
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
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Re: Requiring PHP >= 5.3.3 for MediaWiki core

James Forrester-4
In reply to this post by Legoktm
On 23 October 2014 18:39, Legoktm <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> As part of the librarization project[1], we are planning on taking the
> CSSJanus library that is currently in includes/lib/ and bringing it in
> with composer. However, it requires PHP >=5.3.3 in its composer.json[2].
> Krinkle has stated[3] that is due to the fact that it has only been
> tested on 5.3.3 and higher, and it's also what travis-ci provides.
>
> After doing some research[4], it appears that we would be dropping
> support for Ubuntu 10.04LTS, which has security support until April
> 2015. MediaWiki 1.25.0 is expected to be released in May 2015.
>
> Does anyone have any objections to dropping 5.3.2 support? I've uploaded
> [5] that actually increments the required version number.
>

​I understood that the vague plan was to switch over to 5.4.x requirement,
and that we'd only waited because Wikimedia wasn't ready yet. Has this
changed? I know a number of people have talked about wanting to use PHP
traits.

​J.​
--
James D. Forrester
Product Manager, Editing
Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.

[hidden email] | @jdforrester
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Re: Requiring PHP >= 5.3.3 for MediaWiki core

Chad
On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 8:12 AM, James Forrester <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> On 23 October 2014 18:39, Legoktm <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > As part of the librarization project[1], we are planning on taking the
> > CSSJanus library that is currently in includes/lib/ and bringing it in
> > with composer. However, it requires PHP >=5.3.3 in its composer.json[2].
> > Krinkle has stated[3] that is due to the fact that it has only been
> > tested on 5.3.3 and higher, and it's also what travis-ci provides.
> >
> > After doing some research[4], it appears that we would be dropping
> > support for Ubuntu 10.04LTS, which has security support until April
> > 2015. MediaWiki 1.25.0 is expected to be released in May 2015.
> >
> > Does anyone have any objections to dropping 5.3.2 support? I've uploaded
> > [5] that actually increments the required version number.
> >
>
> ​I understood that the vague plan was to switch over to 5.4.x requirement,
> and that we'd only waited because Wikimedia wasn't ready yet. Has this
> changed? I know a number of people have talked about wanting to use PHP
> traits.
>
>
Yes, but that's longer term.

This minor bump still in the 5.3.x branch I think we can do immediately.

-Chad
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Re: Requiring PHP >= 5.3.3 for MediaWiki core

James Forrester-4
On 24 October 2014 08:41, Chad <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 8:12 AM, James Forrester <[hidden email]
> >
> wrote:
>
> > On 23 October 2014 18:39, Legoktm <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > As part of the librarization project[1], we are planning on taking the
> > > CSSJanus library that is currently in includes/lib/ and bringing it in
> > > with composer. However, it requires PHP >=5.3.3 in its
> composer.json[2].
> > > Krinkle has stated[3] that is due to the fact that it has only been
> > > tested on 5.3.3 and higher, and it's also what travis-ci provides.
> > >
> > > After doing some research[4], it appears that we would be dropping
> > > support for Ubuntu 10.04LTS, which has security support until April
> > > 2015. MediaWiki 1.25.0 is expected to be released in May 2015.
> > >
> > > Does anyone have any objections to dropping 5.3.2 support? I've
> uploaded
> > > [5] that actually increments the required version number.
> > >
> >
> > ​I understood that the vague plan was to switch over to 5.4.x
> requirement,
> > and that we'd only waited because Wikimedia wasn't ready yet. Has this
> > changed? I know a number of people have talked about wanting to use PHP
> > traits.
> >
> >
> Yes, but that's longer term.
>

​How much longer? 1.25 is May 2015; Wikimedia's ZAP -> HAT migration is
nominally to be finished within a month…​



> This minor bump still in the 5.3.x branch I think we can do immediately.
>

​Sure, if announcing a 1.25 dependency change and then changing the change
later won't disrupt people too much.

(Copying the main MediaWiki-l list for those who don't follow wikitech-l)

​J.​
--
James D. Forrester
Product Manager, Editing
Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.

[hidden email] | @jdforrester
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Re: Requiring PHP >= 5.3.3 for MediaWiki core

Krinkle
On 24 Oct 2014, at 17:31, James Forrester <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> ​How much longer? 1.25 is May 2015; Wikimedia's ZAP -> HAT migration is
> nominally to be finished within a month…​
>


Since neither ZAP or HAT is defined anywhere on wikitech or mediawiki.org, created:
https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Zap/Hat

(with ZAP and HAT redirects.)

-- Krinkle
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Re: Requiring PHP >= 5.3.3 for MediaWiki core

Matthew Flaschen-2
On 10/27/2014 03:05 PM, Krinkle wrote:
> On 24 Oct 2014, at 17:31, James Forrester <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>
>> ​How much longer? 1.25 is May 2015; Wikimedia's ZAP -> HAT migration is
>> nominally to be finished within a month…​

I think we're now using HHVM most places in production (which supports
almost all PHP 5.4).  Bryan Davis mentioned something about the misc
servers still running PHP 5.3.

Are those the only ones running neither HHVM nor PHP 5.4?

What do we have to do to upgrade them?

Once the WMF cluster is 5.4-safe, we can then think about when to change
core to require 5.4.

This has caused some issues, e.g.
https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/192380/ caused a lint failure during
a deployment (since an unused but committed file had a 5.4-only feature).

There's a related bug, https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T32092 
("MediaWiki PHP 5.4 compatibility (tracking)")..

Matt Flaschen

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Re: Requiring PHP >= 5.3.3 for MediaWiki core

Brian Wolff
On Apr 7, 2015 1:26 PM, "Matthew Flaschen" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 10/27/2014 03:05 PM, Krinkle wrote:
>>
>> On 24 Oct 2014, at 17:31, James Forrester <[hidden email]>
wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> ​How much longer? 1.25 is May 2015; Wikimedia's ZAP -> HAT migration is
>>> nominally to be finished within a month…​
>
>
> I think we're now using HHVM most places in production (which supports
almost all PHP 5.4).  Bryan Davis mentioned something about the misc
servers still running PHP 5.3.
>
> Are those the only ones running neither HHVM nor PHP 5.4?
>
> What do we have to do to upgrade them?
>
> Once the WMF cluster is 5.4-safe, we can then think about when to change
core to require 5.4.
>
> This has caused some issues, e.g.
https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/192380/ caused a lint failure during a
deployment (since an unused but committed file had a 5.4-only feature).
>
> There's a related bug, https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T32092
("MediaWiki PHP 5.4 compatibility (tracking)")..
>
> Matt Flaschen
>
>
>

Image and video scalars are still not updated unfortunately (i say
unfortunately as its a pre-req to having any sort of modern a/v support and
we are seriously behind the times in terms of free video codec support)

--bawolff
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Re: Requiring PHP >= 5.3.3 for MediaWiki core

Paladox
I think we should update core to 5.4 after next lts release or the one after next lts release. Since lots of people are still using php 5.3 more then what 5.2 was when the core was switched. and 5.4 would be a big change.


     On Tuesday, 7 April 2015, 17:58, Brian Wolff <[hidden email]> wrote:
   

 On Apr 7, 2015 1:26 PM, "Matthew Flaschen" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 10/27/2014 03:05 PM, Krinkle wrote:
>>
>> On 24 Oct 2014, at 17:31, James Forrester <[hidden email]>
wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> ​How much longer? 1.25 is May 2015; Wikimedia's ZAP -> HAT migration is
>>> nominally to be finished within a month…​
>
>
> I think we're now using HHVM most places in production (which supports
almost all PHP 5.4).  Bryan Davis mentioned something about the misc
servers still running PHP 5.3.
>
> Are those the only ones running neither HHVM nor PHP 5.4?
>
> What do we have to do to upgrade them?
>
> Once the WMF cluster is 5.4-safe, we can then think about when to change
core to require 5.4.
>
> This has caused some issues, e.g.
https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/192380/ caused a lint failure during a
deployment (since an unused but committed file had a 5.4-only feature).
>
> There's a related bug, https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T32092
("MediaWiki PHP 5.4 compatibility (tracking)")..
>
> Matt Flaschen
>
>
>

Image and video scalars are still not updated unfortunately (i say
unfortunately as its a pre-req to having any sort of modern a/v support and
we are seriously behind the times in terms of free video codec support)

--bawolff
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