Scope of this mailing list

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Scope of this mailing list

Carcharoth
On Sat, Sep 17, 2011 at 1:13 AM, Phil Nash <[hidden email]> wrote:

<snip>

> [[User:Rodhullandemu]] - "still flying the flag for Wikipedia, for some
> inexplicable reason".

Does this refer to this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Rodhullandemu&diff=431917947&oldid=431917436

I'm not going to comment further, but I think others who respond to
your posts should be aware of this.

What the scope of this mailing list should be (given your recent posts
on BLP matters, all copied to Jimmy Wales), is something I'd like to
see discussed by the list moderators and those posting here. If there
is a reason or rationale behind the posts, attempting to demonstrate
something, then fine, but it would be courteous to state that rather
then just post randomly like this.

Carcharoth

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Re: Scope of this mailing list

Phil Nash-3
Carcharoth wrote:

> On Sat, Sep 17, 2011 at 1:13 AM, Phil Nash <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> [[User:Rodhullandemu]] - "still flying the flag for Wikipedia, for
>> some inexplicable reason".
>
> Does this refer to this?
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Rodhullandemu&diff=431917947&oldid=431917436
>
> I'm not going to comment further, but I think others who respond to
> your posts should be aware of this.

Actually, you did comment further, and on a personal level; see below. And
the lack of response in nearly nine hours to your post amply demonstrates,
to me at least, how you seems to have missed the point.

> What the scope of this mailing list should be (given your recent posts
> on BLP matters, all copied to Jimmy Wales), is something I'd like to
> see discussed by the list moderators and those posting here. If there
> is a reason or rationale behind the posts, attempting to demonstrate
> something, then fine, but it would be courteous to state that rather
> then just post randomly like this.

Starting at the back, and working forward, my posts are not random. They are
carefully selected examples based on my experience as (currently) a reader
of Wikipedia and my responses to what I found. I take it as obvious that if
I can read these articles, so can their subjects, and if they don't like
what they see, making appropriate noises, or (in extreme cases) litigating
against the Foundation.

We have BLP policies for that reason, and while I see editors on Wikipedia
competing to provide articles about bacon(!), fiddling about with templates
that are ostensibly fit for purpose as they are[1], and still arguing about
trivial issues, nobody seems to be committed to clearing backlogs of
articles that actually provide legal, if not journalistic, risk for WP and
its parent. And there are myriad similar examples.

My personal reasons are less important than making sure that this project
does, and can, continue without unnecessary diversions into legalities-
perhaps I've been spending too much time reading up Commons policies of
late, one of which (to paraphrase) says that "just because nobody will
notice a copyright violation is no reason to ignore policy"- and so it
should be with any policy on any WMF project that may have consequences for
the Foundation. I am available to discuss any non-apparent personal
motivations PRIVATELY by email rather than on a public list. But don't
assume that I don't have our project's viability at heart.

As a lawyer by training, qualifications, experience, and observation, I've
seen many operations thought to be acting blithely within the law crumble to
the ground when the courts have upheld unexpected, but valid challenges. I'm
not suggesting this is likely in our case; but neither is it beyond the
bounds of possibility, and at least if I bring risks to the attention of
others, my hands are clean.

Hope that helps.

[1] and consuming unnecessary resources in TfDs



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Re: Scope of this mailing list

Carcharoth
On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 1:31 AM, Phil Nash <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Starting at the back, and working forward, my posts are not random. They are
> carefully selected examples based on my experience as (currently) a reader
> of Wikipedia and my responses to what I found. I take it as obvious that if
> I can read these articles, so can their subjects, and if they don't like
> what they see, making appropriate noises, or (in extreme cases) litigating
> against the Foundation.

What you seem to be arguing for is a mailing list dedicated to the
issues you raise. The point I was making is that re-purposing this
mailing list (wiki-en-l) for that purpose is unlikely to succeed (or
be desirable), and that is what I meant by references to this being a
bit random. In other words, the venue(s) you are chosing for raising
these matters seem a bit random. What you seem to be looking for is a
mailing list version of the BLP Noticeboard. I've copied the WMF
mailing list on this post (as you added that mailing list when you
replied), but I won't see any replies to that mailing list as I'm not
subscribed there. I've removed Jimmy from the cc list, as the posts to
public mailing lists should be sufficient.

Carcharoth

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Re: Scope of this mailing list

Carcharoth
On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 1:51 AM, Carcharoth <[hidden email]> wrote:

> but I won't see any replies to that mailing list as I'm not
> subscribed there.

Seems like I should subscribe:

"Due to a large amount of spam, emails from non-members of this list
are now automatically rejected. If you have a valuable contribution to
the list but would rather not subscribe to it, please send an email to
<e-mail address> and we will forward your post to the list."

Has spam overwhelmed moderation of all the mailing lists, or is it
only the WMF mailing list?

Carcharoth

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Re: Scope of this mailing list

Phil Nash-3
In reply to this post by Carcharoth
Carcharoth wrote:

> On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 1:31 AM, Phil Nash <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> Starting at the back, and working forward, my posts are not random.
>> They are carefully selected examples based on my experience as
>> (currently) a reader of Wikipedia and my responses to what I found.
>> I take it as obvious that if I can read these articles, so can their
>> subjects, and if they don't like what they see, making appropriate
>> noises, or (in extreme cases) litigating against the Foundation.
>
> What you seem to be arguing for is a mailing list dedicated to the
> issues you raise. The point I was making is that re-purposing this
> mailing list (wiki-en-l) for that purpose is unlikely to succeed (or
> be desirable), and that is what I meant by references to this being a
> bit random. In other words, the venue(s) you are chosing for raising
> these matters seem a bit random. What you seem to be looking for is a
> mailing list version of the BLP Noticeboard. I've copied the WMF
> mailing list on this post (as you added that mailing list when you
> replied), but I won't see any replies to that mailing list as I'm not
> subscribed there. I've removed Jimmy from the cc list, as the posts to
> public mailing lists should be sufficient.
>
> Carcharoth

OK, Chris. Let's see what happens next.


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Re: Scope of this mailing list

Phil Nash-3
In reply to this post by Carcharoth
Carcharoth wrote:

> On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 1:51 AM, Carcharoth
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> but I won't see any replies to that mailing list as I'm not
>> subscribed there.
>
> Seems like I should subscribe:
>
> "Due to a large amount of spam, emails from non-members of this list
> are now automatically rejected. If you have a valuable contribution to
> the list but would rather not subscribe to it, please send an email to
> <e-mail address> and we will forward your post to the list."
>
> Has spam overwhelmed moderation of all the mailing lists, or is it
> only the WMF mailing list?
>
> Carcharoth

For operational reasons, I am subscribed to about 6 lists under the WMF
umbrella, and am only aware of the problem on the Foundation list itself.



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