Separating Special:MyLanguage from Extension:Collection

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Separating Special:MyLanguage from Extension:Collection

Matthew Walker
Today, Kaldari wanted to have translate enabled on foundationwiki so that
Special:MyLanguage was available, but that would fall afoul of bug:44871
[1]. This is not a unique request, fundraising also has some use for
MyLanguage features on wikis that don't have (and wont have) translate.

Are there any concerns with separating out that special page into it's own
extension? The one that immediately jumps to mind is how the i18n team
bundles translate.

[1] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=44871

~Matt Walker
Wikimedia Foundation
Fundraising Technology Team
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Re: Separating Special:MyLanguage from Extension:Collection

Max Semenik
The page looks kinda small and useful, so why not just move it into core?


On Tue, Jun 17, 2014 at 4:20 PM, Matthew Walker <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Today, Kaldari wanted to have translate enabled on foundationwiki so that
> Special:MyLanguage was available, but that would fall afoul of bug:44871
> [1]. This is not a unique request, fundraising also has some use for
> MyLanguage features on wikis that don't have (and wont have) translate.
>
> Are there any concerns with separating out that special page into it's own
> extension? The one that immediately jumps to mind is how the i18n team
> bundles translate.
>
> [1] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=44871
>
> ~Matt Walker
> Wikimedia Foundation
> Fundraising Technology Team
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l




--
Best regards,
Max Semenik ([[User:MaxSem]])
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Re: Separating Special:MyLanguage from Extension:Collection

Ryan Kaldari-2
In reply to this post by Matthew Walker
On Tue, Jun 17, 2014 at 4:20 PM, Matthew Walker <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Today, Kaldari wanted to have translate enabled on foundationwiki so that
> Special:MyLanguage was available, but that would fall afoul of bug:44871
> [1]. This is not a unique request, fundraising also has some use for
> MyLanguage features on wikis that don't have (and wont have) translate.
>
> Are there any concerns with separating out that special page into it's own
> extension?
>

Or even better, moving Special:MyLanguage into core.

Ryan Kaldari
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Re: Separating Special:MyLanguage from Extension:Collection

MZMcBride-2
In reply to this post by Matthew Walker
Matthew Walker wrote:

>Today, Kaldari wanted to have translate enabled on foundationwiki so that
>Special:MyLanguage was available, but that would fall afoul of bug:44871
>[1]. This is not a unique request, fundraising also has some use for
>MyLanguage features on wikis that don't have (and wont have) translate.
>
>Are there any concerns with separating out that special page into it's own
>extension? The one that immediately jumps to mind is how the i18n team
>bundles translate.
>
>[1] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=44871

Hi.

I read your post and
<https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=44871#c19> and still can't
figure out what Kaldari wants to do. Can someone explain why
Special:MyLanguage is needed on wikimediafoundation.org?

I'm also a little confused about the reference to "Extension:Collection"
in the subject line. Did you mean "Extension:Translate"? (Also, its. :P)

Putting "Special:MyLanguage"-type functionality in MediaWiki core seems
fine to me. It just maps a user's language preference to a language code
subpage, right? So "Special:MyLanguage/Foo" for someone who's specified
that she speaks Spanish would redirect to "Foo/es".

MZMcBride



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Re: Separating Special:MyLanguage from Extension:Collection

Ryan Kaldari-2
The specific need is that I want to set the 'Mobile-frontend-terms-url'
message to '//m.wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Terms_of_Use'
via the WikimediaMessages extension, so that people clicking the 'Terms of
Use' link at the bottom of the page will get sent to the Terms of Use in
their own language. Right now, wiki administrators have to override this
message locally to point to the correct translation (after checking to see
if it actually exists).

(Added this information to the bug as well.)

Ryan Kaldari


On Tue, Jun 17, 2014 at 5:49 PM, MZMcBride <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Matthew Walker wrote:
> >Today, Kaldari wanted to have translate enabled on foundationwiki so that
> >Special:MyLanguage was available, but that would fall afoul of bug:44871
> >[1]. This is not a unique request, fundraising also has some use for
> >MyLanguage features on wikis that don't have (and wont have) translate.
> >
> >Are there any concerns with separating out that special page into it's own
> >extension? The one that immediately jumps to mind is how the i18n team
> >bundles translate.
> >
> >[1] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=44871
>
> Hi.
>
> I read your post and
> <https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=44871#c19> and still can't
> figure out what Kaldari wants to do. Can someone explain why
> Special:MyLanguage is needed on wikimediafoundation.org?
>
> I'm also a little confused about the reference to "Extension:Collection"
> in the subject line. Did you mean "Extension:Translate"? (Also, its. :P)
>
> Putting "Special:MyLanguage"-type functionality in MediaWiki core seems
> fine to me. It just maps a user's language preference to a language code
> subpage, right? So "Special:MyLanguage/Foo" for someone who's specified
> that she speaks Spanish would redirect to "Foo/es".
>
> MZMcBride
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
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Re: Separating Special:MyLanguage from Extension:Collection

Matthew Walker
In reply to this post by MZMcBride-2
On Tue, Jun 17, 2014 at 5:49 PM, MZMcBride <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Can someone explain why Special:MyLanguage is needed on
> wikimediafoundation.org?
>

I don't know why Kaldari wants it. But Fundraising can use it for our thank
you page. We would like to give a redirect like
wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Thank_You/fi and have it go
to the Finnish page, or English if that doesn't exist. Thereby taking some
amount of intelligence out of that process. We also have links in our
emails referencing reports / statements on foundationwiki that currently
just point to the English versions.


> I'm also a little confused about the reference to "Extension:Collection"
> in the subject line. Did you mean "Extension:Translate"? (Also, its. :P)
>

*sigh* Yes... /me apparently has context switching leakage.
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Re: Separating Special:MyLanguage from Extension:Collection

Matthew Flaschen-2
In reply to this post by Ryan Kaldari-2
On 06/17/2014 08:57 PM, Ryan Kaldari wrote:
> The specific need is that I want to set the 'Mobile-frontend-terms-url'
> message to '//m.wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Terms_of_Use'
> via the WikimediaMessages extension, so that people clicking the 'Terms of
> Use' link at the bottom of the page will get sent to the Terms of Use in
> their own language. Right now, wiki administrators have to override this
> message locally to point to the correct translation (after checking to see
> if it actually exists).

Side note, extensions can no longer override core messages.  I don't
know if extensions can override other extensions, but I doubt it.

So you might have to add on to the mechanism I did (reviews welcome,
especially from i18n people) at
https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/137528/ (after the patch is merged,
it's easy to just add one more key).

Matt Flaschen


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Re: Separating Special:MyLanguage from Extension:Collection

Kristian Kankainen
In reply to this post by Ryan Kaldari-2
Does the Special:MyLanguage support multiple languages? If not, I think
it ought, it would be a good fallback chain.

Kristian Kankainen

18.06.2014 03:57, Ryan Kaldari kirjutas:

> The specific need is that I want to set the 'Mobile-frontend-terms-url'
> message to '//m.wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Terms_of_Use'
> via the WikimediaMessages extension, so that people clicking the 'Terms of
> Use' link at the bottom of the page will get sent to the Terms of Use in
> their own language. Right now, wiki administrators have to override this
> message locally to point to the correct translation (after checking to see
> if it actually exists).
>
> (Added this information to the bug as well.)
>
> Ryan Kaldari
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 17, 2014 at 5:49 PM, MZMcBride <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Matthew Walker wrote:
>>> Today, Kaldari wanted to have translate enabled on foundationwiki so that
>>> Special:MyLanguage was available, but that would fall afoul of bug:44871
>>> [1]. This is not a unique request, fundraising also has some use for
>>> MyLanguage features on wikis that don't have (and wont have) translate.
>>>
>>> Are there any concerns with separating out that special page into it's own
>>> extension? The one that immediately jumps to mind is how the i18n team
>>> bundles translate.
>>>
>>> [1] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=44871
>> Hi.
>>
>> I read your post and
>> <https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=44871#c19> and still can't
>> figure out what Kaldari wants to do. Can someone explain why
>> Special:MyLanguage is needed on wikimediafoundation.org?
>>
>> I'm also a little confused about the reference to "Extension:Collection"
>> in the subject line. Did you mean "Extension:Translate"? (Also, its. :P)
>>
>> Putting "Special:MyLanguage"-type functionality in MediaWiki core seems
>> fine to me. It just maps a user's language preference to a language code
>> subpage, right? So "Special:MyLanguage/Foo" for someone who's specified
>> that she speaks Spanish would redirect to "Foo/es".
>>
>> MZMcBride
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikitech-l mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>


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Re: Separating Special:MyLanguage from Extension:Collection

Seb35
In reply to this post by Ryan Kaldari-2
Adding Special:MyLanguage on the foundationwiki will not achieve the  
feature you want: this special page redirects to the user language (of the  
user preferences), and nobody in the public has an account on this wiki,  
so everyone will be redirected to the English page (try on Meta with a  
private tab after setting the browser default language to 'de' or  
whatever).

This feature can be found in  
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:LanguageSelector and I’m not sure  
if it can be achieved with ULS (but I think such a feature would be great  
in core).

~ Seb35


Le Wed, 18 Jun 2014 02:57:08 +0200, Ryan Kaldari <[hidden email]>  
a écrit:

> The specific need is that I want to set the 'Mobile-frontend-terms-url'
> message to  
> '//m.wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Terms_of_Use'
> via the WikimediaMessages extension, so that people clicking the 'Terms  
> of
> Use' link at the bottom of the page will get sent to the Terms of Use in
> their own language. Right now, wiki administrators have to override this
> message locally to point to the correct translation (after checking to  
> see
> if it actually exists).
>
> (Added this information to the bug as well.)
>
> Ryan Kaldari
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 17, 2014 at 5:49 PM, MZMcBride <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Matthew Walker wrote:
>> >Today, Kaldari wanted to have translate enabled on foundationwiki so  
>> that
>> >Special:MyLanguage was available, but that would fall afoul of  
>> bug:44871
>> >[1]. This is not a unique request, fundraising also has some use for
>> >MyLanguage features on wikis that don't have (and wont have) translate.
>> >
>> >Are there any concerns with separating out that special page into it's  
>> own
>> >extension? The one that immediately jumps to mind is how the i18n team
>> >bundles translate.
>> >
>> >[1] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=44871
>>
>> Hi.
>>
>> I read your post and
>> <https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=44871#c19> and still  
>> can't
>> figure out what Kaldari wants to do. Can someone explain why
>> Special:MyLanguage is needed on wikimediafoundation.org?
>>
>> I'm also a little confused about the reference to "Extension:Collection"
>> in the subject line. Did you mean "Extension:Translate"? (Also, its. :P)
>>
>> Putting "Special:MyLanguage"-type functionality in MediaWiki core seems
>> fine to me. It just maps a user's language preference to a language code
>> subpage, right? So "Special:MyLanguage/Foo" for someone who's specified
>> that she speaks Spanish would redirect to "Foo/es".
>>
>> MZMcBride
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikitech-l mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

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Re: Separating Special:MyLanguage from Extension:Collection

Siebrand Mazeland-2
On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 12:37 PM, Seb35 <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Adding Special:MyLanguage on the foundationwiki will not achieve the
> feature you want: this special page redirects to the user language (of the
> user preferences), and nobody in the public has an account on this wiki, so
> everyone will be redirected to the English page (try on Meta with a private
> tab after setting the browser default language to 'de' or whatever).
>
> This feature can be found in
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:LanguageSelector and I’m not
> sure if it can be achieved with ULS (but I think such a feature would be
> great in core).


LanguageSelector is outdated and the last development work dates from end
of 2011. ULS does support this. On Wikimedia wikis, this feature has been
disabled.

Siebrand
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Re: Separating Special:MyLanguage from Extension:Collection

Mormegil
In reply to this post by Seb35
On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 1:37 PM, Seb35 <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Adding Special:MyLanguage on the foundationwiki will not achieve the
> feature you want: this special page redirects to the user language (of the
> user preferences), and nobody in the public has an account on this wiki, so
> everyone will be redirected to the English page (try on Meta with a private
> tab after setting the browser default language to 'de' or whatever).
>

I almost pointed out the same until I read Matthew’s mail, where he writes

I don't know why Kaldari wants it. But Fundraising can use it for our thank
> you page. We would like to give a redirect like
> wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Thank_You/fi and have it
> go
> to the Finnish page, or English if that doesn't exist.
>

And so I learned about another feature of Special:MyLanguage. However,
you’re right that detecting the user’s language from some other source than
just (local!) user preferences might be even better.

-- [[cs:User:Mormegil | Petr Kadlec]]
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Re: Separating Special:MyLanguage from Extension:Collection

Max Semenik
Aaaand this is implemented and is up for review:
https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/140765/

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Max Semenik ([[User:MaxSem]])
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