September London wikimeet and candidate WMUK chief execs

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September London wikimeet and candidate WMUK chief execs

Michael Peel-4
Hi all,

The 49th London Wikimeet will take place on Sunday 11th September:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetup/London/49

We're hoping that the finalist candidates for the position of Wikimedia UK's chief exec will be able to attend this wikimeet, although this is still to be confirmed. This will follow from the first stage of interviews on 1-2 September and the second (and final) set of interviews on 9th September. We'll be making the final decision on who to appoint to the position a few days after the wikimeet - and your views of the candidates at the wikimeet will be particularly important in making this decision.

In order to enable non-London wikimedians to attend this wikimeet and meet the candidates, WMUK is offering to cover travel costs to get to the wikimeet for up to 6 non-London wikimedians. To apply to have your travel costs covered, please send me an email by the 9th September, giving a brief rationale for why we should support your attendance (focusing on the presence of the future chief exec and questions you would like to ask them, the development of future wikimeets, or similar), and an estimation of your travel costs. Please note that we can't support attendance without prior approval by email.

Thanks,
Mike


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Re: September London wikimeet and candidate WMUK chief execs

Gordon Joly
On 31/08/2011 21:57, Michael Peel wrote:
> The 49th London Wikimeet will take place on Sunday 11th September:
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetup/London/49
>
> We're hoping that the finalist candidates for the position of Wikimedia UK's chief exec will be able to attend this wikimeet, although this is still to be confirmed.
Can I ask what is the timeframe is for this? I wanted to get along (to
discuss Wikimeet 50), but as you might recall, I tend to arrive
fashionably late!

The Wikimeet starts at 1pm, and AFAIK has never had any formal end time.....

Gordo


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Re: September London wikimeet and candidate WMUK chief execs

Thomas Dalton
In reply to this post by Michael Peel-4

Could we get some mini-CVs of the candidates so we can make more efficient use of their time?

On Aug 31, 2011 9:58 PM, "Michael Peel" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> The 49th London Wikimeet will take place on Sunday 11th September:
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetup/London/49
>
> We're hoping that the finalist candidates for the position of Wikimedia UK's chief exec will be able to attend this wikimeet, although this is still to be confirmed. This will follow from the first stage of interviews on 1-2 September and the second (and final) set of interviews on 9th September. We'll be making the final decision on who to appoint to the position a few days after the wikimeet - and your views of the candidates at the wikimeet will be particularly important in making this decision.
>
> In order to enable non-London wikimedians to attend this wikimeet and meet the candidates, WMUK is offering to cover travel costs to get to the wikimeet for up to 6 non-London wikimedians. To apply to have your travel costs covered, please send me an email by the 9th September, giving a brief rationale for why we should support your attendance (focusing on the presence of the future chief exec and questions you would like to ask them, the development of future wikimeets, or similar), and an estimation of your travel costs. Please note that we can't support attendance without prior approval by email.
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia UK mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
> WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org

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Re: September London wikimeet and candidate WMUK chief execs

HJ Mitchell
Yes, that's a great idea. In particualr, do any of them have any experience with Wikimedia or any similar experience?


From: Thomas Dalton <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Mon, 5 September, 2011 0:28:39
Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] September London wikimeet and candidate WMUK chief execs

Could we get some mini-CVs of the candidates so we can make more efficient use of their time?

On Aug 31, 2011 9:58 PM, "Michael Peel" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> The 49th London Wikimeet will take place on Sunday 11th September:
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetup/London/49
>
> We're hoping that the finalist candidates for the position of Wikimedia UK's chief exec will be able to attend this wikimeet, although this is still to be confirmed. This will follow from the first stage of interviews on 1-2 September and the second (and final) set of interviews on 9th September. We'll be making the final decision on who to appoint to the position a few days after the wikimeet - and your views of the candidates at the wikimeet will be particularly important in making this decision.
>
> In order to enable non-London wikimedians to attend this wikimeet and meet the candidates, WMUK is offering to cover travel costs to get to the wikimeet for up to 6 non-London wikimedians. To apply to have your travel costs covered, please send me an email by the 9th September, giving a brief rationale for why we should support your attendance (focusing on the presence of the future chief exec and questions you would like to ask them, the development of future wikimeets, or similar), and an estimation of your travel costs. Please note that we can't support attendance without prior approval by email.
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia UK mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
> WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org

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Re: September London wikimeet and candidate WMUK chief execs

Gordon Joly
On 05/09/2011 00:48, HJ Mitchell wrote:
Yes, that's a great idea. In particualr, do any of them have any experience with Wikimedia or any similar experience?


From: Thomas Dalton [hidden email]
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Mon, 5 September, 2011 0:28:39
Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] September London wikimeet and candidate WMUK chief execs

Could we get some mini-CVs of the candidates so we can make more efficient use of their time?

This is fun! An "interview" by an ad hoc committee on a Sunday afternoon in a pub in London....

Maybe the Wikimeet has become a "wiki meat market"?

:-)

Gordo


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Re: September London wikimeet and candidate WMUK chief execs

Deryck Chan

I'm guessing MeatballWiki is one of the items on display? [/offtopic]

On Sep 5, 2011 3:41 PM, "Gordon Joly" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 05/09/2011 00:48, HJ Mitchell wrote:
>> Yes, that's a great idea. In particualr, do any of them have any
>> experience with Wikimedia or any similar experience?
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> *From:* Thomas Dalton <[hidden email]>
>> *To:* [hidden email]
>> *Sent:* Mon, 5 September, 2011 0:28:39
>> *Subject:* Re: [Wikimediauk-l] September London wikimeet and candidate
>> WMUK chief execs
>>
>> Could we get some mini-CVs of the candidates so we can make more
>> efficient use of their time?
>>
> This is fun! An "interview" by an ad hoc committee on a Sunday afternoon
> in a pub in London....
>
> Maybe the Wikimeet has become a "wiki meat market"?
>
> :-)
>
> Gordo
>
>
> --
>
> Gordon Joly
> [hidden email]
> http://www.joly.org.uk/
> Don't Leave Space To The Professionals!
>

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Re: September London wikimeet and candidate WMUK chief execs

Gordon Joly
On 05/09/2011 08:51, Deryck Chan wrote:
> I'm guessing MeatballWiki is one of the items on display? [/offtopic]
OK. Let us get serious.

I humbly assert that this process (many Wikipedians, face to face, in a
pub in London) breaks any modern standards of the selection process
(e.g. all candidates being asked the same set of questions).



Gordo


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Re: September London wikimeet and candidate WMUK chief execs

Deryck Chan

Wikipedia has been doing things the non-standard way since 2001 :)

I think the London meetup is fine as part of the selection process, because everyone sees everyone, and the final decision is still with the board.

On Sep 5, 2011 4:13 PM, "Gordon Joly" <[hidden email]> wrote:

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Re: September London wikimeet and candidate WMUK chief execs

James Forrester-2
In reply to this post by Gordon Joly
On 5 September 2011 09:12, Gordon Joly <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I humbly assert that this process (many Wikipedians, face to face, in a
> pub in London) breaks any modern standards of the selection process
> (e.g. all candidates being asked the same set of questions).

Well, the way I see it it's more that it's an opportunity for the
potential Chiefs Executive to consider whether they really want to
serve our community - so best behaviour from all attendees, please!

Certainly, I wouldn't want the Board to make a decision based on a few
idle chats in a pub, but I'm sure they wouldn't.

Yours,
--
James D. Forrester
[hidden email] | [hidden email]
[[Wikipedia:User:Jdforrester|James F.]]

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Re: September London wikimeet and candidate WMUK chief execs

Thomas Morton
Don't forget, though, that some of the Wikipedians may have decent experience either as CEO's themselves, or in HR - or even working under CEO's!

So there may be important insight to gain from them and their advice :) Especially as it is likely to be a no BS assessment.

When I hire people I usually round up the final candidates and take them to lunch with some of the current employees - and then debrief informally later to see what they thought. This is almost always the best hiring advice you will ever get.

Tom

On 5 September 2011 10:19, James Forrester <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 5 September 2011 09:12, Gordon Joly <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I humbly assert that this process (many Wikipedians, face to face, in a
> pub in London) breaks any modern standards of the selection process
> (e.g. all candidates being asked the same set of questions).

Well, the way I see it it's more that it's an opportunity for the
potential Chiefs Executive to consider whether they really want to
serve our community - so best behaviour from all attendees, please!

Certainly, I wouldn't want the Board to make a decision based on a few
idle chats in a pub, but I'm sure they wouldn't.

Yours,
--
James D. Forrester
[hidden email] | [hidden email]
[[Wikipedia:User:Jdforrester|James F.]]

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Re: September London wikimeet and candidate WMUK chief execs

WereSpielChequers-2
Another organisation I'm involved in is doing something similar though a tad more formal this week. Their shortlisted candidates will be rotated round four tables so everyone gets to meet everyone else, and we don't wind up with a table of candidates. The candidates will be arriving a little later than the rest of us and leaving at a set time, that allows for a briefing beforehand and a debrief afterwards.  The London meetup usually winds up subdividing into two or more discussions simply because of the length of the table, and then folds back to one discussion by the evening as numbers dwindle. I'd hope the board will be  thinking of something like that, particularly giving the candidates a leaving time so that there is time to discuss them after they've all gone..

WSC

On 5 September 2011 10:24, Thomas Morton <[hidden email]> wrote:
Don't forget, though, that some of the Wikipedians may have decent experience either as CEO's themselves, or in HR - or even working under CEO's!

So there may be important insight to gain from them and their advice :) Especially as it is likely to be a no BS assessment.

When I hire people I usually round up the final candidates and take them to lunch with some of the current employees - and then debrief informally later to see what they thought. This is almost always the best hiring advice you will ever get.

Tom


On 5 September 2011 10:19, James Forrester <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 5 September 2011 09:12, Gordon Joly <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I humbly assert that this process (many Wikipedians, face to face, in a
> pub in London) breaks any modern standards of the selection process
> (e.g. all candidates being asked the same set of questions).

Well, the way I see it it's more that it's an opportunity for the
potential Chiefs Executive to consider whether they really want to
serve our community - so best behaviour from all attendees, please!

Certainly, I wouldn't want the Board to make a decision based on a few
idle chats in a pub, but I'm sure they wouldn't.

Yours,
--
James D. Forrester
[hidden email] | [hidden email]
[[Wikipedia:User:Jdforrester|James F.]]

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Re: September London wikimeet and candidate WMUK chief execs

HJ Mitchell
In reply to this post by James Forrester-2
That's no reason we can;t interrogate them! If they candle the chief exec's job, a bunch of Wikimedians chatting over a beer should be no problem.

Harry


From: James Forrester <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Mon, 5 September, 2011 10:19:27
Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] September London wikimeet and candidate WMUK chief execs

On 5 September 2011 09:12, Gordon Joly <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I humbly assert that this process (many Wikipedians, face to face, in a
> pub in London) breaks any modern standards of the selection process
> (e.g. all candidates being asked the same set of questions).

Well, the way I see it it's more that it's an opportunity for the
potential Chiefs Executive to consider whether they really want to
serve our community - so best behaviour from all attendees, please!

Certainly, I wouldn't want the Board to make a decision based on a few
idle chats in a pub, but I'm sure they wouldn't.

Yours,
--
James D. Forrester
[hidden email] | [hidden email]
[[Wikipedia:User:Jdforrester|James F.]]

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Re: September London wikimeet and candidate WMUK chief execs

Thomas Dalton
In reply to this post by Gordon Joly
On 5 September 2011 09:12, Gordon Joly <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 05/09/2011 08:51, Deryck Chan wrote:
>> I'm guessing MeatballWiki is one of the items on display? [/offtopic]
> OK. Let us get serious.
>
> I humbly assert that this process (many Wikipedians, face to face, in a
> pub in London) breaks any modern standards of the selection process
> (e.g. all candidates being asked the same set of questions).

Actually, I think it's fairly standard to do things this way. The
interview-in-a-pub technique is very well known, and it's perfectly
normal to have candidates for senior jobs meet the people they would
be working with before any final decisions are made. I don't see a
problem with merging the two.

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Re: September London wikimeet and candidate WMUK chief execs

Thomas Dalton
In reply to this post by James Forrester-2
On 5 September 2011 10:19, James Forrester <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 5 September 2011 09:12, Gordon Joly <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I humbly assert that this process (many Wikipedians, face to face, in a
>> pub in London) breaks any modern standards of the selection process
>> (e.g. all candidates being asked the same set of questions).
>
> Well, the way I see it it's more that it's an opportunity for the
> potential Chiefs Executive to consider whether they really want to
> serve our community - so best behaviour from all attendees, please!

We're always on our best behaviour at London meetups! ;)

> Certainly, I wouldn't want the Board to make a decision based on a few
> idle chats in a pub, but I'm sure they wouldn't.

The candidates going to the pub have already passed several stages of
the hiring process, so even if the final decision was made based only
on what happened in the pub (which I'm also sure won't be the case)
then much more is being implicitly taken into account just by the fact
that they've got this far.

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Re: September London wikimeet and candidate WMUK chief execs

Sebastian Moleski-3
In reply to this post by Thomas Dalton
On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 1:17 PM, Thomas Dalton <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I humbly assert that this process (many Wikipedians, face to face, in a
> pub in London) breaks any modern standards of the selection process
> (e.g. all candidates being asked the same set of questions).

Actually, I think it's fairly standard to do things this way. The
interview-in-a-pub technique is very well known, and it's perfectly
normal to have candidates for senior jobs meet the people they would
be working with before any final decisions are made. I don't see a
problem with merging the two.

We did do something similar when we interviewed Pavel Richter, WMDE's executive director. I think it can be useful in gauging some sense of compatibility between candidates and the people they might have to work with. At the same time, it would be prudent not to overestimate the value of this particular method since you're not hiring a manager to manage Wikipedians but someone to manage your chapter's staff.

Best regards,

Sebastian
President
Wikimedia Deutschland

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Re: September London wikimeet and candidate WMUK chief execs

Thomas Dalton
On 5 September 2011 13:07, Sebastian Moleski <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 1:17 PM, Thomas Dalton <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>>
>> > I humbly assert that this process (many Wikipedians, face to face, in a
>> > pub in London) breaks any modern standards of the selection process
>> > (e.g. all candidates being asked the same set of questions).
>>
>> Actually, I think it's fairly standard to do things this way. The
>> interview-in-a-pub technique is very well known, and it's perfectly
>> normal to have candidates for senior jobs meet the people they would
>> be working with before any final decisions are made. I don't see a
>> problem with merging the two.
>
> We did do something similar when we interviewed Pavel Richter, WMDE's
> executive director. I think it can be useful in gauging some sense of
> compatibility between candidates and the people they might have to work
> with. At the same time, it would be prudent not to overestimate the value of
> this particular method since you're not hiring a manager to manage
> Wikipedians but someone to manage your chapter's staff.

Indeed, it is important to distinguish between managing people (which
is what the CEO needs to be able to do with the staff) and working
with people (which is what the CEO needs to be able to do with the
volunteers). I expect all the shortlisted candidates have previous
experience of managing people, so there shouldn't be a problem there.
Working with volunteers is something altogether different and this
session should provide some useful information.

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Re: September London wikimeet and candidate WMUK chief execs

Gordon Joly
In reply to this post by Thomas Morton
On 05/09/2011 10:24, Thomas Morton wrote:
>
> When I hire people I usually round up the final candidates and take
> them to lunch with some of the current employees - and then debrief
> informally later to see what they thought. This is almost always the
> best hiring advice you will ever get.
Ah, yes, the old boy network...


Gordo


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Re: September London wikimeet and candidate WMUK chief execs

Gordon Joly
In reply to this post by Sebastian Moleski-3


Here is my question in advance: when will WMUK become a registered
charity, and what will you do to accelerate that process?

Gordo




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Re: September London wikimeet and candidate WMUK chief execs

Richard Symonds-2
Gordo,

Speaking as a volunteer, they might not be able to answer the first part of
that question, simply because they're not hired yet and so possibly not
privy to that information. I also think that, at present, the 'when' is as
much in the hands of the Charity Commission as it is WMUK! Again, I'm
speaking as a volunteer here.

Richard

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Gordon Joly
Sent: 05 September 2011 20:55
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] September London wikimeet and candidate WMUK
chief execs



Here is my question in advance: when will WMUK become a registered
charity, and what will you do to accelerate that process?

Gordo




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Re: September London wikimeet and candidate WMUK chief execs

Thomas Dalton
In reply to this post by Gordon Joly


On Sep 5, 2011 8:53 PM, "Gordon Joly" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 05/09/2011 10:24, Thomas Morton wrote:
> >
> > When I hire people I usually round up the final candidates and take
> > them to lunch with some of the current employees - and then debrief
> > informally later to see what they thought. This is almost always the
> > best hiring advice you will ever get.
> Ah, yes, the old boy network...

That's not the old boy network... You may want to look that up...


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