Short message for translation – let users know why they can't access our wikis

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Short message for translation – let users know why they can't access our wikis

Johan Jönsson-2
Hi everyone,

For security reasons, some old browsers won't won't work with the Wikimedia wikis in the future. This only affects a very small amount of our readers, but given the number of readers we have, we still need to tell them so they know what is happening and how to fix it.

Thank you – your help is much appreciated


//Johan Jönsson
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Re: Short message for translation – let users know why they can't access our wikis

Philippe Verdy
"more details below", but no content "below", and no link to the information page.

2018-06-12 0:10 GMT+02:00 Johan Jönsson <[hidden email]>:
Hi everyone,

For security reasons, some old browsers won't won't work with the Wikimedia wikis in the future. This only affects a very small amount of our readers, but given the number of readers we have, we still need to tell them so they know what is happening and how to fix it.

Thank you – your help is much appreciated


//Johan Jönsson
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Re: Short message for translation – let users know why they can't access our wikis

Johan Jönsson-2
On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 4:31 PM, Philippe Verdy <[hidden email]> wrote:
"more details below", but no content "below", and no link to the information page.

Yes, that's because the translation will be used on another page, much like https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Johan_(WMF)/IE8XP was.

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Re: Short message for translation – let users know why they can't access our wikis

Philippe Verdy
But then the word to translate "below" is inaccurate, you should include words like or "Read more" surounded by a wikilink with a placeholder variable so that it can be substitude later.

Also avoid terms like "below", "click here", especially when the location will not be the same page, or even if it will finally be the same page (which may be restructured/reordered later). Use descriptive links as much as possible (this includes avoiding the term "click" when users may "tap", or navigate with TAB or select links from a list).

2018-06-13 16:36 GMT+02:00 Johan Jönsson <[hidden email]>:
On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 4:31 PM, Philippe Verdy <[hidden email]> wrote:
"more details below", but no content "below", and no link to the information page.

Yes, that's because the translation will be used on another page, much like https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Johan_(WMF)/IE8XP was.

//Johan Jönsson
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Re: Short message for translation – let users know why they can't access our wikis

Philippe Verdy
So the last paragraph should should read as:

    You can read a  [[$AES128-SHA-on-Wikimedia|longer and more technical update]] (in English).

The "(in English)" terms may be dropped in transaltions if the target is translated too, it can be easily removed from this translation (if the target page is created later with its own translation).

Thanks. Philippe.

2018-06-13 18:46 GMT+02:00 Philippe Verdy <[hidden email]>:
But then the word to translate "below" is inaccurate, you should include words like or "Read more" surounded by a wikilink with a placeholder variable so that it can be substitude later.

Also avoid terms like "below", "click here", especially when the location will not be the same page, or even if it will finally be the same page (which may be restructured/reordered later). Use descriptive links as much as possible (this includes avoiding the term "click" when users may "tap", or navigate with TAB or select links from a list).

2018-06-13 16:36 GMT+02:00 Johan Jönsson <[hidden email]>:
On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 4:31 PM, Philippe Verdy <[hidden email]> wrote:
"more details below", but no content "below", and no link to the information page.

Yes, that's because the translation will be used on another page, much like https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Johan_(WMF)/IE8XP was.

//Johan Jönsson
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Re: Short message for translation – let users know why they can't access our wikis

Johan Jönsson-2
On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 6:54 PM, Philippe Verdy <[hidden email]> wrote:
So the last paragraph should should read as:

    You can read a  [[$AES128-SHA-on-Wikimedia|longer and more technical update]] (in English).

The "(in English)" terms may be dropped in transaltions if the target is translated too, it can be easily removed from this translation (if the target page is created later with its own translation).


Sorry if I was unclear. We're not talking about a target page. We're talking about a text below the translations. But the translations will be moved.

//Johan Jönsson
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Re: Short message for translation – let users know why they can't access our wikis

Philippe Verdy
So this transalted text will be posted on several pages with the same English content below? Or will be in an autotranslated template that will be posted only a single page?
Why should not this message appear as an announcement posted on any page of the wiki, or part of a newfeed posted by email or on several talk pages or forums?

For me it's jut look like a summary for another page, ideal for inclusion in an autotranslated template and what is below is unrelated. If this is used only a single page, you don"t need the template, but you would translate the full article directly. Then a separate summary announcement could be made.

2018-06-13 21:18 GMT+02:00 Johan Jönsson <[hidden email]>:
On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 6:54 PM, Philippe Verdy <[hidden email]> wrote:
So the last paragraph should should read as:

    You can read a  [[$AES128-SHA-on-Wikimedia|longer and more technical update]] (in English).

The "(in English)" terms may be dropped in transaltions if the target is translated too, it can be easily removed from this translation (if the target page is created later with its own translation).


Sorry if I was unclear. We're not talking about a target page. We're talking about a text below the translations. But the translations will be moved.

//Johan Jönsson
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Re: Short message for translation – let users know why they can't access our wikis

Pols12

I think we should trust the WMF staff to organize this. The given messages will be copied to appropriate places.

You can look at the phabricator task if you need contextual information about these messages.

The staff probably don’t want the “longer and more technical update” to be translated in order to keep it really precise.

Pols12


Le 13/06/2018 à 21:37, Philippe Verdy a écrit :
So this transalted text will be posted on several pages with the same English content below? Or will be in an autotranslated template that will be posted only a single page?
Why should not this message appear as an announcement posted on any page of the wiki, or part of a newfeed posted by email or on several talk pages or forums?

For me it's jut look like a summary for another page, ideal for inclusion in an autotranslated template and what is below is unrelated. If this is used only a single page, you don"t need the template, but you would translate the full article directly. Then a separate summary announcement could be made.

2018-06-13 21:18 GMT+02:00 Johan Jönsson <[hidden email]>:
On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 6:54 PM, Philippe Verdy <[hidden email]> wrote:
So the last paragraph should should read as:

    You can read a  [[$AES128-SHA-on-Wikimedia|longer and more technical update]] (in English).

The "(in English)" terms may be dropped in transaltions if the target is translated too, it can be easily removed from this translation (if the target page is created later with its own translation).


Sorry if I was unclear. We're not talking about a target page. We're talking about a text below the translations. But the translations will be moved.

//Johan Jönsson
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Re: Short message for translation – let users know why they can't access our wikis

Johan Jönsson-2
In reply to this post by Philippe Verdy
On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 9:37 PM, Philippe Verdy <[hidden email]> wrote:
So this transalted text will be posted on several pages with the same English content below? Or will be in an autotranslated template that will be posted only a single page?
Why should not this message appear as an announcement posted on any page of the wiki, or part of a newfeed posted by email or on several talk pages or forums?

For me it's jut look like a summary for another page, ideal for inclusion in an autotranslated template and what is below is unrelated. If this is used only a single page, you don"t need the template, but you would translate the full article directly. Then a separate summary announcement could be made.

As they won't be able to access the wikis, it won't be on a wiki page at all, but on a very simple landing page. See see https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T196371 and https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T147202 for context. (:

//Johan Jönsson
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Re: Short message for translation – let users know why they can't access our wikis

Philippe Verdy
Not able to even read the wiki in an enforced incognito mode (removing all private session keys, disabling some scripts, just render the content)?

Then we should revert them to use some alternate read-only mirrors (but most of these mirrors are augmented with advertizing and do not preserve the privacy of their visitors, unless they follow the new European RGPD rules strictly: we copuld divert them by sending them to a mirror hosted in a respectable site in the EU where at least RGPD is respected and enforced).

If we don't, then users will just see some contents cached by Google (and with various site trackers enabled).

We can also send them to a WM promotional website managed by some chapters (or by the Wikipedia Zero program), or send them to an offline archive (possibly via an external application and a downloadable database of contents).

Blocking simple visitors only is IMHO very brutal and opposed to our sommon objectives: making the data available to anyone anywhere. OK we can block contributors (including spseudo-anonymous IP users).

We could also promote the use of a web proxy for read-only access to the live content.


2018-06-14 14:42 GMT+02:00 Johan Jönsson <[hidden email]>:
On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 9:37 PM, Philippe Verdy <[hidden email]> wrote:
So this transalted text will be posted on several pages with the same English content below? Or will be in an autotranslated template that will be posted only a single page?
Why should not this message appear as an announcement posted on any page of the wiki, or part of a newfeed posted by email or on several talk pages or forums?

For me it's jut look like a summary for another page, ideal for inclusion in an autotranslated template and what is below is unrelated. If this is used only a single page, you don"t need the template, but you would translate the full article directly. Then a separate summary announcement could be made.

As they won't be able to access the wikis, it won't be on a wiki page at all, but on a very simple landing page. See see https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T196371 and https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T147202 for context. (:

//Johan Jönsson
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Re: Short message for translation – let users know why they can't access our wikis

Philippe Verdy
Also I propose creating a read-only instance of each wikimedia project (e.g. the domain "en.wikipedia.org" becomes "read.en.wipedia.org") and connects to a proxy that will only deliver the content, will deliver no access to the various tools around, no preferences, no logon, just a basic search bar at top of page, no edits and a side bar limited to visit some read-only portals or pointing to other related websites not restricted by this limitation.
This website would just have a local standard cache of generated pages, with long expiration date (about one week is a minimum), it would be semi-live. But at least we continue delivering the content.

And to preserve privacy, this red-only edition should propose to extract some large navigatable extract (e.g. by collecting pages from a start page, plus some randomly selected start pages, up to some level of depth or a maximum downloadable file size) that can be browsed offline (with the existing offline Wikipedia reader apps). Users could then navigate freely from some wellknown Wikipedia portals of from any subject they are interested in. This extraction can be made on top of the caching proxy, maximizing the use of its cache (filled by contents requested by any other random visitors).

Which format will be used for the download ? Basically a collection of prerendered HTML pages, plus images and some common CSS stylesheets, no javascript at all or a minimal one not absolutely necessary for using it, packed in an archive and freely installable on any webserver, or in a desktop storage folder. The metadata of these pages would only contain the date of production, no history at all. It could also contain the licence info (and for listing the contributors, one would have to browse them online with a decently secured browser, we would just display the URL to follow to get that history list online).


2018-06-14 15:23 GMT+02:00 Philippe Verdy <[hidden email]>:
Not able to even read the wiki in an enforced incognito mode (removing all private session keys, disabling some scripts, just render the content)?

Then we should revert them to use some alternate read-only mirrors (but most of these mirrors are augmented with advertizing and do not preserve the privacy of their visitors, unless they follow the new European RGPD rules strictly: we copuld divert them by sending them to a mirror hosted in a respectable site in the EU where at least RGPD is respected and enforced).

If we don't, then users will just see some contents cached by Google (and with various site trackers enabled).

We can also send them to a WM promotional website managed by some chapters (or by the Wikipedia Zero program), or send them to an offline archive (possibly via an external application and a downloadable database of contents).

Blocking simple visitors only is IMHO very brutal and opposed to our sommon objectives: making the data available to anyone anywhere. OK we can block contributors (including spseudo-anonymous IP users).

We could also promote the use of a web proxy for read-only access to the live content.


2018-06-14 14:42 GMT+02:00 Johan Jönsson <[hidden email]>:
On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 9:37 PM, Philippe Verdy <[hidden email]> wrote:
So this transalted text will be posted on several pages with the same English content below? Or will be in an autotranslated template that will be posted only a single page?
Why should not this message appear as an announcement posted on any page of the wiki, or part of a newfeed posted by email or on several talk pages or forums?

For me it's jut look like a summary for another page, ideal for inclusion in an autotranslated template and what is below is unrelated. If this is used only a single page, you don"t need the template, but you would translate the full article directly. Then a separate summary announcement could be made.

As they won't be able to access the wikis, it won't be on a wiki page at all, but on a very simple landing page. See see https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T196371 and https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T147202 for context. (:

//Johan Jönsson
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Re: Short message for translation – let users know why they can't access our wikis

Johan Jönsson-2
In reply to this post by Philippe Verdy
On Thu, Jun 14, 2018 at 3:23 PM, Philippe Verdy <[hidden email]> wrote:
Not able to even read the wiki in an enforced incognito mode (removing all private session keys, disabling some scripts, just render the content)?

Then we should revert them to use some alternate read-only mirrors (but most of these mirrors are augmented with advertizing and do not preserve the privacy of their visitors, unless they follow the new European RGPD rules strictly: we copuld divert them by sending them to a mirror hosted in a respectable site in the EU where at least RGPD is respected and enforced).

If we don't, then users will just see some contents cached by Google (and with various site trackers enabled).

We can also send them to a WM promotional website managed by some chapters (or by the Wikipedia Zero program), or send them to an offline archive (possibly via an external application and a downloadable database of contents).

Blocking simple visitors only is IMHO very brutal and opposed to our sommon objectives: making the data available to anyone anywhere. OK we can block contributors (including spseudo-anonymous IP users).

We could also promote the use of a web proxy for read-only access to the live content.

Hi,

That's probably a discussion for the linked Phab task, rather than translators-l.

//Johan Jönsson
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