Should MediaWiki CSS prefer non-free fonts?

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Re: Should MediaWiki CSS prefer non-free fonts?

Quim Gil-2
Ryan, *thank you* very much for the research, and for contacting the
Liberation Sans maintainers with specific bugs.

On 03/05/2014 02:00 PM, Ryan Kaldari wrote:
> What do people think of the following stack:
>
> Arimo, Liberation Sans, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;


After so much discussion, it would be useful to have a table showing
which fonts are rendered by the most popular browsers in the most
popular platforms [1] when you specify

a) sans-serif;

b) Arimo, Liberation Sans, sans-serif;

c) Arimo, Liberation Sans, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;


This way we can see what happens exactly when you define fonts or not,
when you define only free fonts or also proprietary. We will also be
able to see where exactly this picture differs from the vision of the
promoters of proprietary fonts.

I think this table is going to be useful to defend the decision,
regardless of which decision is made.

Based on the results we might conclude that e.g. there is no need to
specify Helvetica / Arial because they are already picked by the
browsers that would display them when explicitly specified.

We might also find out where does Helvetica Neue appear or not based on
each option, and this would open the possibility to file bugs or provide
feedback to the specific projects.

Imagine if all this discussion could be solved by proposing a patch to
the Webkit project, just defining Helvetica Neue as a fallback for Arimo
and Liberation Sans.


[1] Proposed browsers:

Chrome (Windows, Mac)
Firefox (Windows, Mac)
MSIE
Safari
Android
iPhone
iPad

http://stats.wikimedia.org/wikimedia/squids/SquidReportClients.htm

--
Quim Gil
Technical Contributor Coordinator @ Wikimedia Foundation
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Qgil


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Re: Should MediaWiki CSS prefer non-free fonts?

David Gerard-2
On 6 March 2014 20:21, Quim Gil <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Ryan, *thank you* very much for the research, and for contacting the
> Liberation Sans maintainers with specific bugs.


Seconded! Arguing is one thing - bothering to go out and finding out
what people actually think is quite another.

Would it be possible to run a test like this - for the squishy
subjective feelings that, nevertheless, are the results we actually
want to achieve - with a reasonable sample of ordinary users? I'm
surprised you got results like this from designers (who probably
*knew* what fonts they were looking at), but tests on normal people
would also be good. This would be *really good* usability data, highly
suitable to defend a decision from design obsessives, unreconstructed
Stallmanites or anyone between ...

(Veering off topic: So what does WMF use for a usability lab, anyway?)


- d.

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Re: Should MediaWiki CSS prefer non-free fonts?

Quim Gil-2
In reply to this post by Quim Gil-2
On 03/06/2014 12:21 PM, Quim Gil wrote:
> On 03/05/2014 02:00 PM, Ryan Kaldari wrote:
>> What do people think of the following stack:
>>
>> Arimo, Liberation Sans, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;
>
>
> it would be useful to have a table showing
> which fonts are rendered by the most popular browsers in the most
> popular platforms [1] when you specify

Please help filling this table:

https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Typography_refresh/Font_choice/Test

BUT BEFORE please check the wikitext code to assure that the syntax is
correct, and therefore the tests will be valid. Thank you!

PS: I don't have any of the "most popular browsers in the most popular
platforms". I have started a second table of Linux desktop combinations,
just for the fun of it.

--
Quim Gil
Technical Contributor Coordinator @ Wikimedia Foundation
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Qgil


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Re: Should MediaWiki CSS prefer non-free fonts?

Martijn Hoekstra
On Mar 7, 2014 2:12 AM, "Quim Gil" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On 03/06/2014 12:21 PM, Quim Gil wrote:
> > On 03/05/2014 02:00 PM, Ryan Kaldari wrote:
> >> What do people think of the following stack:
> >>
> >> Arimo, Liberation Sans, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;
> >
> >
> > it would be useful to have a table showing
> > which fonts are rendered by the most popular browsers in the most
> > popular platforms [1] when you specify
>
> Please help filling this table:
>
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Typography_refresh/Font_choice/Test
>
> BUT BEFORE please check the wikitext code to assure that the syntax is
> correct, and therefore the tests will be valid. Thank you!
>
> PS: I don't have any of the "most popular browsers in the most popular
> platforms". I have started a second table of Linux desktop combinations,
> just for the fun of it.
>

In the "mobile browsers" I'm missing chrome for Android. Is that getting
reported with something else? Maybe as "android"? It's hard to believe
chrome for android is less popular than all the others on the list.

> --
> Quim Gil
> Technical Contributor Coordinator @ Wikimedia Foundation
> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Qgil
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
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Re: Should MediaWiki CSS prefer non-free fonts?

Quim Gil-2
Thank you for the people that has already filled data and improved the page!

https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Typography_refresh/Font_choice/Test


On 03/07/2014 12:39 AM, Martijn Hoekstra wrote:
> In the "mobile browsers" I'm missing chrome for Android. Is that getting
> reported with something else? Maybe as "android"? It's hard to believe
> chrome for android is less popular than all the others on the list.

If you are missing a combination, just add it (as others have done).

We have already interesting data, although most likely distorted in some
cases by the free fonts installed by the users in Windows, either
directly or perhaps indirectly (I suspect that OpenOffice & LibreOffice
in Windows might carry Liberation Sans with them, and this is why it is
available for some browsers there).

--
Quim Gil
Technical Contributor Coordinator @ Wikimedia Foundation
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Qgil


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