Suggestion on details in scholarship emails

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Suggestion on details in scholarship emails

Rehman Abubakr
Hello,

I was a former Wikimania scholarship recipient. To put it briefly, the Wikimania experience was something that I deeply value and will forever cherish. Somewhat sadly though, it is only after quite some years after Wikimania that I actually realised the value of the scholarship award (in monetary terms), that too with loose estimates done by myself purely out of curiosity.

Would it make sense to include the approximate total monetary value of the scholarship award (airfare, lodging, insurance, logistics, etc) within the scholarship award emails to the recipients? I feel this would give much deserving weight in the award itself, as I'm sure many of us isn't aware of the actual amount of resources that is put in a given person's award.


Yours truly,


Rehman Abubakr (Roy)

OTRS agent, Admin (English Wikipedia, Commons), Contributor (Wikidata, Meta)


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Re: Suggestion on details in scholarship emails

Federico Leva (Nemo)
Rehman Abubakr, 17/04/19 12:10:
> Would it make sense to include the approximate total monetary value of
> the scholarship award (airfare, lodging, insurance, logistics, etc)
> within the scholarship award emails to the recipients?

This is a good suggestion, although it might be hard to give an exact
figure before the flights are booked (if WMF is booking them directly).

The total figure should also include the per capita cost for the overall
conference. Such calculations are easier to make if the budget is
published transparently after Wikimania, something that seems to have
stopped:
<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikimania_budget>

Federico

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Re: Suggestion on details in scholarship emails

Gnangarra
it's an ok idea but dollars spent doesnt equate to the value gained, and will vary between locations.  What we'll end up with Wikimanias in 3rd world countries because ts cheaper not because of potential impact. That is something we already see.

How do you measure impact when its about sharing of knowledge, WMF can ask for reports but a person who writes a good report may provide lower impact than a person who gets a one off opportunity and then builds and runs 100's of outreach projects over time but cant write a "good report".  We fail to value the relationships, and personal impact for measures that can be put into easy numbers immediately.  We do need to measure outcomes some how, all too often the numbers become centre of the universe not the sharing of knowledge.  We would do better to stretch the limits rather than to shrink the dollars per unit, no where should be impossible, to small, or too far.

On Wed, 17 Apr 2019 at 17:56, Federico Leva (Nemo) <[hidden email]> wrote:
Rehman Abubakr, 17/04/19 12:10:
> Would it make sense to include the approximate total monetary value of
> the scholarship award (airfare, lodging, insurance, logistics, etc)
> within the scholarship award emails to the recipients?

This is a good suggestion, although it might be hard to give an exact
figure before the flights are booked (if WMF is booking them directly).

The total figure should also include the per capita cost for the overall
conference. Such calculations are easier to make if the budget is
published transparently after Wikimania, something that seems to have
stopped:
<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikimania_budget>

Federico

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Re: Suggestion on details in scholarship emails

Federico Leva (Nemo)
Gnangarra, 17/04/19 13:23:
> What we'll end up with Wikimanias in 3rd world countries because ts cheaper

Is it? The budgets I've seen so far suggest otherwise, but we don't have
full data.

Federico

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Re: Suggestion on details in scholarship emails

Gabriel Thullen
Maybe we should give priority to countries who do not have a restrictive Visa policy. I guess that would rule out Europe, North America & Australia...

Gabe

On Wed, Apr 17, 2019 at 12:47 PM Federico Leva (Nemo) <[hidden email]> wrote:
Gnangarra, 17/04/19 13:23:
> What we'll end up with Wikimanias in 3rd world countries because ts cheaper

Is it? The budgets I've seen so far suggest otherwise, but we don't have
full data.

Federico

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Re: Suggestion on details in scholarship emails

Gnangarra
impact isnt what an event costs its what it can achieve... the more we measure the dollar as a ghod the less we value the communities, and less we set ourselves up to achieve a real impact.  We want to look at what a place can add not how cheaply the event can be, and regardless of the location some will be more than others as measure it fails. If the focus is just the dollar then we open up to corruption, and we will always end up with events in places that have the best US exchange rates much of that can be attributed the lack of social cohesion, and individual repressions.  An event US, EU, or Australia opens ups GLAM collections, opens the opportunity to meet with philanthropic corporates & individuals to promote our need for long term funding, they also be favorable for disabilities and other concerns.  Other communities need growth the event can bring that, its also brings status which is something we need to be careful of, we also need to balance safety somewhere like Bandar Seri Begawan wouldnt be a good idea at the moment.  Tokyo would be expensive but gaining better access to 1000+ years of knowledge would be worth it, likewise Rio or Santiago or Koranic Sankore University in Timbukto.  Every location comes with a set of issues, we need to balance them for what they can achieve for the movement, sometime it also means taking the easy options too where everything can be done with ease....  

I understand why Rehman is saying in showing people the physical cost of them attending to help appreciate what they are getting, but the people that get the opportunity via scholarship should already know the value of attending otherwise why are they going, and why are we even holing an event.  I know that for me to attend Sweden it'd cost me approximately 25% of my yearly income, I really dont need to be told that to appreciate the opportunity of attending. Hopefully people chosing to apply shouldn't be doing so just to have "jolly good time".  

There are lots of legitimate issues people can raise about Wikimanias, lets not added unnecessary noise about individuals who have no control over the decision of a committee.  

On Wed, 17 Apr 2019 at 19:19, Gabriel Thullen <[hidden email]> wrote:
Maybe we should give priority to countries who do not have a restrictive Visa policy. I guess that would rule out Europe, North America & Australia...

Gabe

On Wed, Apr 17, 2019 at 12:47 PM Federico Leva (Nemo) <[hidden email]> wrote:
Gnangarra, 17/04/19 13:23:
> What we'll end up with Wikimanias in 3rd world countries because ts cheaper

Is it? The budgets I've seen so far suggest otherwise, but we don't have
full data.

Federico

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Re: Suggestion on details in scholarship emails

Effe iets anders
In reply to this post by Rehman Abubakr
If the amount is privately shared with the recipient, I could see some value in that (appreciation, as you mention). However, please also consider the flipside: it may make some people feel guilty about accepting the money, or they may take it as a hint that they shouldn't accept the scholarship because it is so expensive. This would be a great pity. I'm not entirely sure whether the benefits would outweigh the risks - but it's a consideration worth making. 

Lodewijk

On Wed, Apr 17, 2019 at 2:11 AM Rehman Abubakr <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello,

I was a former Wikimania scholarship recipient. To put it briefly, the Wikimania experience was something that I deeply value and will forever cherish. Somewhat sadly though, it is only after quite some years after Wikimania that I actually realised the value of the scholarship award (in monetary terms), that too with loose estimates done by myself purely out of curiosity.

Would it make sense to include the approximate total monetary value of the scholarship award (airfare, lodging, insurance, logistics, etc) within the scholarship award emails to the recipients? I feel this would give much deserving weight in the award itself, as I'm sure many of us isn't aware of the actual amount of resources that is put in a given person's award.


Yours truly,


Rehman Abubakr (Roy)

OTRS agent, Admin (English Wikipedia, Commons), Contributor (Wikidata, Meta)

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Re: Suggestion on details in scholarship emails

Kerry Raymond
In reply to this post by Gabriel Thullen

Perhaps I am missing something in this conversation. The conference website clearly states what is funded by a scholarship (round trip travel, accommodation, registration):

 

https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/Scholarships#Scholarship_details

 

The accommodation and registration costs will be published on the Wikimania website. Divide the accommodation cost by the number sharing. A quick look at any online flight booking service or a visit to a local travel agent will get you the cost of cheapest airfares on  the relevant dates (I presume WMF uses the cheaper airfares).

 

As someone who has attended Wikimania at my own expense, I have had to do those same calculations to see if I can afford it. It’s not that hard to.

 

Kerry

 

 


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Re: Suggestion on details in scholarship emails

Deryck Chan
In reply to this post by Rehman Abubakr
Interesting thoughts. I received a WMF Wikimania scholarship in 2017. WMF's travel agent didn't redact the prices when they sent me the flight tickets and accommodation that they gave me. So I could calculate the exact price tag of my scholarship (flight price + accommodation price + registration price).

Is this a useful quantity to know? Yes - it does give some meat to one's gratitude, and it makes for a good argument for those of us academics who are eligible for multiple sources of funding ("hey, last time WMF sponsored me CA$1400 to go to Wikimania, so I'm a worthy applicant of this university's €500 travel award this year" etc). But I wouldn't place a burden on WMF to calculate this figure in cases where the amount isn't obvious, and we certainly shouldn't ask anyone to calculate the value of the award until the travel and accommodation have been purchased.

--Deryck

On Wed, 17 Apr 2019, 10:11 Rehman Abubakr, <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello,

I was a former Wikimania scholarship recipient. To put it briefly, the Wikimania experience was something that I deeply value and will forever cherish. Somewhat sadly though, it is only after quite some years after Wikimania that I actually realised the value of the scholarship award (in monetary terms), that too with loose estimates done by myself purely out of curiosity.

Would it make sense to include the approximate total monetary value of the scholarship award (airfare, lodging, insurance, logistics, etc) within the scholarship award emails to the recipients? I feel this would give much deserving weight in the award itself, as I'm sure many of us isn't aware of the actual amount of resources that is put in a given person's award.


Yours truly,


Rehman Abubakr (Roy)

OTRS agent, Admin (English Wikipedia, Commons), Contributor (Wikidata, Meta)

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Re: Suggestion on details in scholarship emails

Asaf Bartov-2
Rehman wasn't saying it's impossible, or even hard, to calculate.  He was pointing out a potential psychological benefit that would accrue to some participants (and I can attest they exist) who may *not* have given much thought to the magnitude of the investment in awarding them a scholarship.  As Lodewijk pointed out, however, it can only have an opposite, chilling effect.

   A.

On Thu, Apr 18, 2019 at 4:25 PM Deryck Chan <[hidden email]> wrote:
Interesting thoughts. I received a WMF Wikimania scholarship in 2017. WMF's travel agent didn't redact the prices when they sent me the flight tickets and accommodation that they gave me. So I could calculate the exact price tag of my scholarship (flight price + accommodation price + registration price).

Is this a useful quantity to know? Yes - it does give some meat to one's gratitude, and it makes for a good argument for those of us academics who are eligible for multiple sources of funding ("hey, last time WMF sponsored me CA$1400 to go to Wikimania, so I'm a worthy applicant of this university's €500 travel award this year" etc). But I wouldn't place a burden on WMF to calculate this figure in cases where the amount isn't obvious, and we certainly shouldn't ask anyone to calculate the value of the award until the travel and accommodation have been purchased.

--Deryck

On Wed, 17 Apr 2019, 10:11 Rehman Abubakr, <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello,

I was a former Wikimania scholarship recipient. To put it briefly, the Wikimania experience was something that I deeply value and will forever cherish. Somewhat sadly though, it is only after quite some years after Wikimania that I actually realised the value of the scholarship award (in monetary terms), that too with loose estimates done by myself purely out of curiosity.

Would it make sense to include the approximate total monetary value of the scholarship award (airfare, lodging, insurance, logistics, etc) within the scholarship award emails to the recipients? I feel this would give much deserving weight in the award itself, as I'm sure many of us isn't aware of the actual amount of resources that is put in a given person's award.


Yours truly,


Rehman Abubakr (Roy)

OTRS agent, Admin (English Wikipedia, Commons), Contributor (Wikidata, Meta)

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Re: Suggestion on details in scholarship emails

Michael Snow-5
In reply to this post by Effe iets anders
On 4/17/2019 10:16 AM, effe iets anders wrote:
> If the amount is privately shared with the recipient, I could see some
> value in that (appreciation, as you mention). However, please also
> consider the flipside: it may make some people feel guilty about
> accepting the money, or they may take it as a hint that they shouldn't
> accept the scholarship because it is so expensive. This would be a
> great pity. I'm not entirely sure whether the benefits would outweigh
> the risks - but it's a consideration worth making.

I agree that the amount could be shared privately with the recipient,
rather than published. Another possible benefit: people who are in (or
working toward) certain academic and professional roles may need this
information for disclosure purposes as it relates to seeking other
funding for their work. If any past recipients have needed this, they
may have reconstructed their own estimate as described, but it would be
helpful to provide an official calculation.

--Michael Snow


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Re: Suggestion on details in scholarship emails

Asaf Bartov-2
In reply to this post by Asaf Bartov-2
I must correct a meaningful typo:

On Thu, Apr 18, 2019 at 4:42 PM Asaf Bartov <[hidden email]> wrote:
Rehman wasn't saying it's impossible, or even hard, to calculate.  He was pointing out a potential psychological benefit that would accrue to some participants (and I can attest they exist) who may *not* have given much thought to the magnitude of the investment in awarding them a scholarship.  As Lodewijk pointed out, however, it can only have an opposite, chilling effect.

In that last sentence, the "only" should have been "also".  I do not think it can *only* have that effect, at all.

   A.
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