Taipei chosen to host Wikimania 2007

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Re: Taipei chosen to host Wikimania 2007

Titan Deng
>
>
> Should we deny that a bid has been choosen that copied even the idea
> of a logo from the Torino's bid? Even.
>


Excuse me. Could you clarify what is the "logo from the Torino's bid" you
mentioned? Do you mean the WM with a green W and red M on the left-under
corner of Torino's banner?

THD
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Re: Taipei chosen to host Wikimania 2007

Gatto Nero
2006/9/30, THD <[hidden email]>:

> >
> >
> > Should we deny that a bid has been choosen that copied even the idea
> > of a logo from the Torino's bid? Even.
> >
>
>
> Excuse me. Could you clarify what is the "logo from the Torino's bid" you
> mentioned? Do you mean the WM with a green W and red M on the left-under
> corner of Torino's banner?
>
> THD

How can we say...? Maybe the rectangular logo with a black band on the
bottom, the logo of wikimania on the left, the choose to write
"Wikimania2007Taipei" just like "Wikimania2007Torino" (and you were
not obliged to write it in that way: you could write "Taipei 2007" and
"Wikimania" in a lot of different way).
Surely you have not copied the idea of different photos combined, yes,
but all this copying thing is so evident...
I'm not saying that you were not allowed to copy or to take
inspiration from the other bids.
I just find it sad to make it in this way.
Personally, knowing that there were a bid with a logo sooooo strangely
similar to mine (that put it on the page before of me), I had tried to
work more and invent a logo totally different from the other.
It's not that difficult to understand.

Gatto Nero
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Re: Taipei chosen to host Wikimania 2007

Sabine Cretella
In reply to this post by Titan Deng
Ok, could we please all calm down on that now?

Taipei was chosen - that is a fact. They did great work like all other
bidding teams did. Instead of creating problems could we please look
forewards and help them to make it a great event? There is always only
one winner.

Are we a community or not?

Other events can be programmed of course - and having things on a
national level, for example something like an after Wikimaina (like it
was done in the Netherlands this year) would make sense, but I don't see
any sense to now discuss about obvious things. The Jury was known before
and I believe it was composed of people who know what they did and why.

So please: help Taipei or if you are not interested do nothing - but
don't hinder them from doing their work.

Thank you!!!

Sabine


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Re: Taipei chosen to host Wikimania 2007

rfrangi@libero.it
In reply to this post by phoebe ayers-3
Yes. That Logo.

Snowdog

> Excuse me. Could you clarify what is the "logo from the Torino's bid" you
> mentioned? Do you mean the WM with a green W and red M on the left-under
> corner of Torino's banner?
>
> THD
> _______________________________________________
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Re: Taipei chosen to host Wikimania 2007

Hsiang-Tai Chien
In reply to this post by phoebe ayers-3
I wish to let you know that the logo is the official logo of Wikimania,
which you can find in
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Wikimania_(blue-red).svg

H.T.

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of [hidden email]
Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 6:40 PM
To: foundation-l
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Taipei chosen to host Wikimania 2007

Yes. That Logo.

Snowdog

> Excuse me. Could you clarify what is the "logo from the Torino's bid"
> you mentioned? Do you mean the WM with a green W and red M on the
> left-under corner of Torino's banner?
>
> THD



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Re: Taipei chosen to host Wikimania 2007

phoebe ayers-3
FYI, that lovely logo was designed by Ben Yates (tlogmer) for Wikimania
2006, and the red and blue colors were chosen for 2006 out of a whole
spectrum of possibilities. AFAIK there's not been talk of making it "the
official logo" for future Wikimanias, though there's no reason why it
couldn't be -- it seemed to print and scale quite well, and I heard quite a
bit of unsolicited praise for it :)

best,
phoebe


On 9/30/06, Hsiang-Tai Chien <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> I wish to let you know that the logo is the official logo of Wikimania,
> which you can find in
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Wikimania_(blue-red).svg
> <http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Wikimania_%28blue-red%29.svg>
>
> H.T.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email] ] On Behalf Of
> [hidden email]
> Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 6:40 PM
> To: foundation-l
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Taipei chosen to host Wikimania 2007
>
> Yes. That Logo.
>
> Snowdog
>
> > Excuse me. Could you clarify what is the "logo from the Torino's bid"
> > you mentioned? Do you mean the WM with a green W and red M on the
> > left-under corner of Torino's banner?
> >
> > THD
>
>
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Re: Taipei chosen to host Wikimania 2007

Hsiang-Tai Chien
In reply to this post by phoebe ayers-3
Hi Phoebe,

Thanks for the clairification, really appreciate. I think I should correct
my words as "It's the logo for Wikimania 2006".

Thanks and regards,
H.T.

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of phoebe ayers
Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 11:41 PM
To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Taipei chosen to host Wikimania 2007

FYI, that lovely logo was designed by Ben Yates (tlogmer) for Wikimania
2006, and the red and blue colors were chosen for 2006 out of a whole
spectrum of possibilities. AFAIK there's not been talk of making it "the
official logo" for future Wikimanias, though there's no reason why it
couldn't be -- it seemed to print and scale quite well, and I heard quite a
bit of unsolicited praise for it :)

best,
phoebe


On 9/30/06, Hsiang-Tai Chien <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> I wish to let you know that the logo is the official logo of
> Wikimania, which you can find in
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Wikimania_(blue-red).svg
> <http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Wikimania_%28blue-red%29.svg>
>
> H.T.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email] ] On Behalf Of
> [hidden email]
> Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 6:40 PM
> To: foundation-l
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Taipei chosen to host Wikimania 2007
>
> Yes. That Logo.
>
> Snowdog
>
> > Excuse me. Could you clarify what is the "logo from the Torino's bid"
> > you mentioned? Do you mean the WM with a green W and red M on the
> > left-under corner of Torino's banner?
> >
> > THD



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Re: Taipei chosen to host Wikimania 2007

Alison M. Wheeler
In reply to this post by Gatto Nero
On Sat, September 30, 2006 07:45, Gatto Nero wrote:
> I'm not saying that you were not allowed to copy or to take
> inspiration from the other bids.
> I just find it sad to make it in this way.

Could you just get a reality check here, and there's also a bit of the pot
calling the kettle back here. Your bid *also* copied ideas from other
bids, including london's, yet you haven't seen us complain. All the bids
were GFDL (because of where they were placed on meta - personally I'd have
been much much happier if the bids were developed in private by the
various teams and then submitted by email).

For instance; For London I added links to the articles about London on
every language's wp [1] timestamped 10:56, 10 September 2006. The next
evening you copied this! (21:36, 11 September 2006 [2]). Taipei waited
until [3] then at 07:54, 14 September 2006 you moved your list to the
exact same position [4] on the bid as ours!

On 20:10, 10 September 2006 we added a gallery of images of London already
in commons [5]. A gallery was added by Taipei at 00:54, 13 September 2006
[6] but then removed in favour of including the images individually.

Or maybe I should mention the use of flags? At 18:35, 14 September 2006
[7] I added them to our bid (indeed I had to create one! [8]) yet at
05:23, 16 September 2006 there was Taiwan using them too [9]!

We were surprised though that no other bid copied our welcome in multiple
languages [10] at the top of the bid (English, French, German, Italian and
Japanese) to make the point that London is very much a multi-lingual city
as we believe that Wikimania should reflect the babel of languages that
are spoken world-wide.

There are other examples too of bids taking ideas from each other (but I
don't intend to go through every diff - life is too short) but the point
is Wikimania - like all the other WMF projects - is a collaborative thing
too. I found it very flattering that many of my ideas were copied quickly
- it is the 'wiki way'.

Alison Wheeler


[1]
http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikimania_2007/London&diff=next&oldid=430653
[2]
http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikimania_2007/Torino&diff=next&oldid=431780
[3]
http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikimania_2007/Taipei&diff=next&oldid=433195
[4]
http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikimania_2007/Torino&diff=next&oldid=433825
[5]
http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikimania_2007/London&diff=prev&oldid=431053
[6]
http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikimania_2007/Taipei&diff=prev&oldid=432816
[7]
http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikimania_2007/London&diff=next&oldid=433903
[8] http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Icons-flag-eu.png
[9]
http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikimania_2007/Taipei&diff=next&oldid=434991
[10]
http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikimania_2007/London&diff=next&oldid=432060


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Re: Taipei chosen to host Wikimania 2007

Effe iets anders
Please... Why are we having these fights? Taipei has been chosen now,
and we can i think do two things: Accept that or not. If we do the
second, we will be fighting over this for weeks, months and maybe
longer. I think Taipei made a good bid, and I am not in the position
to decide whether it was the best. It has been chosen, please let the
bidding team now proove that their bid was good indeed (we will never
know a comparison with Turin or London or Alexandria)
Please stop fighting over who copied something from someone else. It
is NO use! In wiki it is *good* to copy the good things right? As long
as it is the idea of improoving your bid, it is OK imho. The bid it is
copied from won't be less good by that. The idea is not to *win* with
your bid, but the idea should be to let the jury offer as much as
possible material to be able to make a fair choise for the best bid.
So please leave the harass behind, and let the Taipei people do their
job, let them work their bid out to a real wikimania. Please let's all
hope it will be a great conference, and don't make it harder for them
with all these fights.

Greetings,

Lodewijk

2006/9/30, Alison Wheeler <[hidden email]>:

> On Sat, September 30, 2006 07:45, Gatto Nero wrote:
> > I'm not saying that you were not allowed to copy or to take
> > inspiration from the other bids.
> > I just find it sad to make it in this way.
>
> Could you just get a reality check here, and there's also a bit of the pot
> calling the kettle back here. Your bid *also* copied ideas from other
> bids, including london's, yet you haven't seen us complain. All the bids
> were GFDL (because of where they were placed on meta - personally I'd have
> been much much happier if the bids were developed in private by the
> various teams and then submitted by email).
>
> For instance; For London I added links to the articles about London on
> every language's wp [1] timestamped 10:56, 10 September 2006. The next
> evening you copied this! (21:36, 11 September 2006 [2]). Taipei waited
> until [3] then at 07:54, 14 September 2006 you moved your list to the
> exact same position [4] on the bid as ours!
>
> On 20:10, 10 September 2006 we added a gallery of images of London already
> in commons [5]. A gallery was added by Taipei at 00:54, 13 September 2006
> [6] but then removed in favour of including the images individually.
>
> Or maybe I should mention the use of flags? At 18:35, 14 September 2006
> [7] I added them to our bid (indeed I had to create one! [8]) yet at
> 05:23, 16 September 2006 there was Taiwan using them too [9]!
>
> We were surprised though that no other bid copied our welcome in multiple
> languages [10] at the top of the bid (English, French, German, Italian and
> Japanese) to make the point that London is very much a multi-lingual city
> as we believe that Wikimania should reflect the babel of languages that
> are spoken world-wide.
>
> There are other examples too of bids taking ideas from each other (but I
> don't intend to go through every diff - life is too short) but the point
> is Wikimania - like all the other WMF projects - is a collaborative thing
> too. I found it very flattering that many of my ideas were copied quickly
> - it is the 'wiki way'.
>
> Alison Wheeler
>
>
> [1]
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikimania_2007/London&diff=next&oldid=430653
> [2]
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikimania_2007/Torino&diff=next&oldid=431780
> [3]
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikimania_2007/Taipei&diff=next&oldid=433195
> [4]
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikimania_2007/Torino&diff=next&oldid=433825
> [5]
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikimania_2007/London&diff=prev&oldid=431053
> [6]
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikimania_2007/Taipei&diff=prev&oldid=432816
> [7]
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikimania_2007/London&diff=next&oldid=433903
> [8] http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Icons-flag-eu.png
> [9]
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikimania_2007/Taipei&diff=next&oldid=434991
> [10]
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikimania_2007/London&diff=next&oldid=432060
>
>
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Re: Taipei chosen to host Wikimania 2007

David Gerard-2
On 30/09/06, effe iets anders <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Please... Why are we having these fights?


Because this is the sort of thing that can come from setting it up as
a competitive process.


> Taipei has been chosen now,
> and we can i think do two things: Accept that or not. If we do the
> second, we will be fighting over this for weeks, months and maybe
> longer.


I suspect at least some of those not chosen question the transparency
of the selection criteria and process. Saying "stop talking about
this" doesn't stop them thinking about it.


> Please stop fighting over who copied something from someone else. It
> is NO use! In wiki it is *good* to copy the good things right? As long
> as it is the idea of improoving your bid, it is OK imho. The bid it is
> copied from won't be less good by that.


I do like the idea of the wiki process being applied to bids. It means
at least some effort is preserved for use by others.


> The idea is not to *win* with
> your bid,


If that is the case, it is at odds with the word "win" being used all
the way through the process, and with it being a competitive process.


>  Please let's all
> hope it will be a great conference, and don't make it harder for them
> with all these fights.


The competitive process by definition has a winner and several losers.
The losers will be upset if the selection process and criteria appear
not to have been transparent. Telling people to stop talking about it
won't stop them thinking about it, especially if they feel their
concerns are being dismissed rather than addressed. (I have no idea if
their concerns are valid, but they certainly think they are.) And
volunteers who feel ill-treated leave the project, which is damage to
the project caused by using a competitive process.

As I said, a competitive process will be inherently damaging. If
there's really no other way than a competitive process, then fine, but
don't be surprised when it has the side effects it's *obviously* going
to have.


- d.
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Re: Taipei chosen to host Wikimania 2007

Alison M. Wheeler
In reply to this post by Effe iets anders
On Sat, September 30, 2006 21:20, effe iets anders wrote:
> Please... Why are we having these fights? ...
> Please stop fighting over who copied something from someone else. It
> is NO use! In wiki it is *good* to copy the good things right?

I'm sorry, Lodewijk, but did you actually read my post?

I quote ...
> 2006/9/30, Alison Wheeler <[hidden email]>:
> Your bid *also* copied ideas from other bids, including london's, yet
> you haven't seen us complain.

> but the point is Wikimania - like all the other WMF projects - is a
> collaborative thing too. I found it very flattering that many of my
> ideas were copied quickly - it is the 'wiki way'.

Please don't see "fights" where none exist!

Alison Wheeler
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Re: Taipei chosen to host Wikimania 2007

Birgitte_sb
In reply to this post by David Gerard-2


--- David Gerard <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 30/09/06, effe iets anders
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Please... Why are we having these fights?
>
>
> Because this is the sort of thing that can come from
> setting it up as
> a competitive process.
>
>
> > Taipei has been chosen now,
> > and we can i think do two things: Accept that or
> not. If we do the
> > second, we will be fighting over this for weeks,
> months and maybe
> > longer.
>
>
> I suspect at least some of those not chosen question
> the transparency
> of the selection criteria and process. Saying "stop
> talking about
> this" doesn't stop them thinking about it.
>
>
> > Please stop fighting over who copied something
> from someone else. It
> > is NO use! In wiki it is *good* to copy the good
> things right? As long
> > as it is the idea of improoving your bid, it is OK
> imho. The bid it is
> > copied from won't be less good by that.
>
>
> I do like the idea of the wiki process being applied
> to bids. It means
> at least some effort is preserved for use by others.
>
>
> > The idea is not to *win* with
> > your bid,
>
>
> If that is the case, it is at odds with the word
> "win" being used all
> the way through the process, and with it being a
> competitive process.
>
>
> >  Please let's all
> > hope it will be a great conference, and don't make
> it harder for them
> > with all these fights.
>
>
> The competitive process by definition has a winner
> and several losers.
> The losers will be upset if the selection process
> and criteria appear
> not to have been transparent. Telling people to stop
> talking about it
> won't stop them thinking about it, especially if
> they feel their
> concerns are being dismissed rather than addressed.
> (I have no idea if
> their concerns are valid, but they certainly think
> they are.) And
> volunteers who feel ill-treated leave the project,
> which is damage to
> the project caused by using a competitive process.
>
> As I said, a competitive process will be inherently
> damaging. If
> there's really no other way than a competitive
> process, then fine, but
> don't be surprised when it has the side effects it's
> *obviously* going
> to have.
>
>
> - d.

I intially disagreed with you, david, but now I am
coming around to your way of thinking.   Everyone is a
volunteer doing there best in this.  I do not doubt
that this is true.  But I am beginning to think a
competitive process requires a higher level of
professionalism than can be provided by volunteers
doing their best.

Not that I think people should continue fighting over
the Wikimania 2007 selection.  But we should not stop
talking about this process.  We should start talking
about how future Wikimania's should be selected.
Perhaps the first task is to really define the
relationship between Wikimania and Wikimedia.  Is it
dealt with through a commitee?  Are there any Board
Resolutions that pertain to Wikimania?  What exactly
is the connection?


Birgitte SB

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Re: Taipei chosen to host Wikimania 2007

Gordon Joly
In reply to this post by Angela-5
At 22:20 +1000 25/9/06, Angela wrote:

>  > It was almost certain that a decent bid from Asia would be successful.
>
>No it wasn't and I wish people didn't have this misconception.
>
>All of the bids were considered against a range of criteria, not only
>location. Amongst many other factors, Taipei offered the venue and
>accommodation on a single site, and their organizing team had prior
>experience from running the Chinese Wikimania this year. It's unfair
>to them to suggest they only won because they're in Asia.
>
>If Asia was a sure winner from the start, we wouldn't have needed a
>meeting lasting more than 4 hours on Saturday to determine which city
>would be successful. A few people seem to think that the others were
>rejected purely for being in Europe, but that was not the case, and we
>would have said from the start if we were only accepting bids from
>other continents so as not to waste people's time.
>
>Angela.


I apologize for any suggestion that the Taipei team won on anything but merit.

Gordo

--
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http://pobox.com/~gordo/
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Re: Taipei chosen to host Wikimania 2007

Gordon Joly
In reply to this post by Gatto Nero
At 14:22 +0200 25/9/06, Gatto Nero wrote:

>2006/9/25, Gordon Joly <[hidden email]>:
>>
>>
>>  It was almost certain that a decent bid from Asia would be successful.
>>
>>  We look forward to Wikimania 2007 and hope that Wikimania will swing
>>  back to Europe in 2008!
>>
>>  Gordo
>
>Then why did they open a WorldWide Contest?
>They knew they were going to choose a city in Asia, then why
>shortlisting 3 city out of Asia (and only one in it)?
>That's ridicolous.
>If "turnation" was that important, they would have told in a very
>clear way by the begin: "We are gonna choose Asia, cities from Asia
>can make a bid. Others not".
>
>Gatto Nero
>(that's what I talk about when I use the verb "be fooled")


OK. My mistake. I guess I was aware of a the discussions being about
rotating the venues.

Gordo

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Re: Taipei chosen to host Wikimania 2007

Jimmy Wales
In reply to this post by Alison M. Wheeler
Alison Wheeler wrote:
> Brad's support for Torino during the selection period, and Jimbo's recent
> comment here are, to my mind, very out of place and could easily suggest
> to many that there is pressure being brought on them.

Allow me to clarify that I did not vote in this years selection process,
and have no intention of voting in next years.  My comment about Torino
was based on two things: the closeness of the competition this year, and
my own love of visiting Italy in the summer, which I don't get to do
very often.  It was intended as a personal remark only... to cheer up
the Italians. :)

--Jimbo

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Re: Taipei chosen to host Wikimania 2007

Jimmy Wales
In reply to this post by Ray Saintonge
Ray Saintonge wrote:
> I don't think that it helps the transparency of the process when someone
> like Jimbo begins by supporting a bid before the bidding has seriously
> started.  It's the kind of prejudicial comment that tells everyone else
> to give up before they even try.  It casts doubt on whether he believes
> that the community has enough maturity to make good choices.

Hmm, I seem to have been very misunderstood.  I said "It isn't up to me,
nor should it be" (or words to that effect, you'd have to look it up).
I really meant that.

The committee did a great job this year, and next year's committee will
do a great job too.

I know that my opinions are often viewed as carrying a lot of weight,
and for that I sincerely apologize.  I just like Italy. :)  It was just
a personal comment.

--Jimbo

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Re: Taipei chosen to host Wikimania 2007

valdelli@bluemail.ch
In reply to this post by phoebe ayers-3
This could be a good idea.

To go in Taipei or in Boston or in Sidney is very expensive for a
wikipedian, and most of all wikipedians are students with a little
bit of money.

To have a Wikimania in each continent could be good to offer an
opportunity to all wikipedians without claims.

Ilario


----Messaggio originale----
Da: [hidden email]
Data: 29.09.06 2.07
A: "Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List"<[hidden email]>
Oggetto: Re: [Foundation-l] Taipei chosen to host Wikimania 2007

>
> Yes... we have small local meetups, and the international
conference.
> Something in between would be good.
>

Wikimania Europe, Asia, America perhaps?


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Re: Taipei chosen to host Wikimania 2007

Birgitte_sb
In reply to this post by Jimmy Wales
Perhaps you do not realize this, but you are listed as
being on the jury.  This is probably what led to such
confusion regarding you role in the selection.  This
is the only mention I could find on the composition of
the jury.  In all fairness I stopped looking when I
found this assuming it was correct.

"Original jury comprises of the members of the Board :
Angela, Anthere, Jimmy Wales, Michael Davis, Tim
Shell, to which will be added the new Board member
elected in September to replace Angela, and also the
core organisation team of Wikimania 2006: Phoebe
Ayers, Austin Hair, Samuel Klein and Delphine Ménard.
Other members are: Andrew Lih. Other members may be
added later."
[http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2007/Bids#Shortlist]


Birgitte SB

--- Jimmy Wales <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Ray Saintonge wrote:
> > I don't think that it helps the transparency of
> the process when someone
> > like Jimbo begins by supporting a bid before the
> bidding has seriously
> > started.  It's the kind of prejudicial comment
> that tells everyone else
> > to give up before they even try.  It casts doubt
> on whether he believes
> > that the community has enough maturity to make
> good choices.
>
> Hmm, I seem to have been very misunderstood.  I said
> "It isn't up to me,
> nor should it be" (or words to that effect, you'd
> have to look it up).
> I really meant that.
>
> The committee did a great job this year, and next
> year's committee will
> do a great job too.
>
> I know that my opinions are often viewed as carrying
> a lot of weight,
> and for that I sincerely apologize.  I just like
> Italy. :)  It was just
> a personal comment.
>
> --Jimbo
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
>
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>


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Re: Taipei chosen to host Wikimania 2007

David Gerard-2
In reply to this post by Birgitte_sb
On 01/10/06, Birgitte SB <[hidden email]> wrote:
> --- David Gerard <[hidden email]> wrote:

> > As I said, a competitive process will be inherently
> > damaging. If
> > there's really no other way than a competitive
> > process, then fine, but
> > don't be surprised when it has the side effects it's
> > *obviously* going
> > to have.

> I intially disagreed with you, david, but now I am
> coming around to your way of thinking.   Everyone is a
> volunteer doing there best in this.  I do not doubt
> that this is true.  But I am beginning to think a
> competitive process requires a higher level of
> professionalism than can be provided by volunteers
> doing their best.


Unfortunately, I can't see another way than a competitive bid either,
so the people saying this are right too. How annoying ...


> Not that I think people should continue fighting over
> the Wikimania 2007 selection.  But we should not stop
> talking about this process.  We should start talking
> about how future Wikimania's should be selected.
> Perhaps the first task is to really define the
> relationship between Wikimania and Wikimedia.  Is it
> dealt with through a commitee?  Are there any Board
> Resolutions that pertain to Wikimania?  What exactly
> is the connection?


That is a very interesting and deep question - i.e., what are the
assumptions each person (or team or project) have made so far?


- d.
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Re: Taipei chosen to host Wikimania 2007

Ray Saintonge
In reply to this post by Birgitte_sb
Birgitte SB wrote:

>I intially disagreed with you, david, but now I am
>coming around to your way of thinking.   Everyone is a
>volunteer doing there best in this.  I do not doubt
>that this is true.  But I am beginning to think a
>competitive process requires a higher level of
>professionalism than can be provided by volunteers
>doing their best.
>
I can understand that some people are disappointed by not winning the
bid, but now that a decision is made supporting the winning bid serves
well in maintaining general harmony.

This is not the kind of decision that can be effectively made by votes
at broad volunteer level.  There are too many factors that cannot be
properly communicated even if a heroic effort is made by the committee
to do so.  Much can depend on technical considerations about the
facility that can only be answered by very direct and specific questions
from the committee.  It would probably be a good idea to leave time for
feedback from the general membership about the shortlisted bids; perhaps
a month would do.  This would give time for concerns of various sorts to
be raised.  I don't think that this was possible for 2005-7 because of
the tighter time line for making the decision.  It should be possible
for 2008 and later since we do want a longer planning cycle.

I support the principle of rotating Wikimania around three broad
geographical regions (Europe/Africa, The Americas, Asia/Australia), but
this should not create a situation where we must accept a city's clearly
inferior bid just because it is the only one from its region.

>Not that I think people should continue fighting over
>the Wikimania 2007 selection.  But we should not stop
>talking about this process.  We should start talking
>about how future Wikimania's should be selected.
>Perhaps the first task is to really define the
>relationship between Wikimania and Wikimedia.  Is it
>dealt with through a commitee?  Are there any Board
>Resolutions that pertain to Wikimania?  What exactly
>is the connection?
>
I think that the Foundation's connection with Wikimania should be closer
than its links with any of the other sister projects.  Wikimania's
objectives have more to do with marshalling physical assets than trying
to build something on-line.  There is still the task of putting together
a programme for the conference, but I don't see that as a big logistical
problem.  As long as the programmers are respectful of the diversity of
Wikimedia projects serious difficulties are unlikely.

Perhaps a separate, but closely linked non-profit corporation needs to
be set up to deal with Wikimania.  It could be the one responsible for
any possible liabilities that could arise from operating real-world
rather than virtual events.

Ec

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