Taipei chosen to host Wikimania 2007

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Re: Taipei chosen to host Wikimania 2007

James Hare
One thing we could do is have the bidding process, then determine which one
would be 2008, 2009, etc, or if a certain place will be chosen at all. That
way, all effort is utilized.

On 10/1/06, David Gerard <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On 01/10/06, Birgitte SB <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > --- David Gerard <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > > As I said, a competitive process will be inherently
> > > damaging. If
> > > there's really no other way than a competitive
> > > process, then fine, but
> > > don't be surprised when it has the side effects it's
> > > *obviously* going
> > > to have.
>
> > I intially disagreed with you, david, but now I am
> > coming around to your way of thinking.   Everyone is a
> > volunteer doing there best in this.  I do not doubt
> > that this is true.  But I am beginning to think a
> > competitive process requires a higher level of
> > professionalism than can be provided by volunteers
> > doing their best.
>
>
> Unfortunately, I can't see another way than a competitive bid either,
> so the people saying this are right too. How annoying ...
>
>
> > Not that I think people should continue fighting over
> > the Wikimania 2007 selection.  But we should not stop
> > talking about this process.  We should start talking
> > about how future Wikimania's should be selected.
> > Perhaps the first task is to really define the
> > relationship between Wikimania and Wikimedia.  Is it
> > dealt with through a commitee?  Are there any Board
> > Resolutions that pertain to Wikimania?  What exactly
> > is the connection?
>
>
> That is a very interesting and deep question - i.e., what are the
> assumptions each person (or team or project) have made so far?
>
>
> - d.
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Re: Taipei chosen to host Wikimania 2007

rfrangi@libero.it
In reply to this post by phoebe ayers-3
Sorry, since it was the only logo I saw on the two pages, I incorrectly presumed that Gattonero was referring to it.

He was speaking about the similarity between the two headers with "Wikimania2007Torino" and "Wikimania2007Taipei".

Roberto (Snowdog)


> I wish to let you know that the logo is the official logo of Wikimania,
> which you can find in
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Wikimania_(blue-red).svg
>
> H.T.
>



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Re: Taipei chosen to host Wikimania 2007

valdelli@bluemail.ch
In reply to this post by phoebe ayers-3
IMHO it could be very important to have you in Italy in summer 2007.

Ilario
~~~~~~~~~~
President of Wikimedia CH
Member of Wikimedia Italy
~~~~~~~~~~

----Messaggio originale----
Da: [hidden email]
Data: 01.10.06 19.33
A: <[hidden email]>, "Wikimedia Foundation Mailing
List"<[hidden email]>
Oggetto: Re: [Foundation-l] Taipei chosen to host Wikimania 2007

Alison Wheeler wrote:
> Brad's support for Torino during the selection period, and
Jimbo's recent
> comment here are, to my mind, very out of place and could easily
suggest
> to many that there is pressure being brought on them.

Allow me to clarify that I did not vote in this years selection
process,
and have no intention of voting in next years.  My comment about
Torino
was based on two things: the closeness of the competition this
year, and
my own love of visiting Italy in the summer, which I don't get to
do
very often.  It was intended as a personal remark only... to cheer
up
the Italians. :)

--Jimbo

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Re: Taipei chosen to host Wikimania 2007

valdelli@bluemail.ch
In reply to this post by phoebe ayers-3
I strong support three different Wikimania: one for Europe/Africa,
one for Asia/Australia, one form America.

The Asia has got many problems and one Wikimania cannot solve them,
but also the core of Wikipedians are in the Europe, but also the
Digital Divide is a big problem in Africa, etc.

Any choose will be always a "long long" discussion.

Ilario


----Messaggio originale----
Da: [hidden email]
Data: 02.10.06 2.19
A: "Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List"<[hidden email]>
Oggetto: Re: [Foundation-l] Taipei chosen to host Wikimania 2007

Birgitte SB wrote:


I support the principle of rotating Wikimania around three broad
geographical regions (Europe/Africa, The Americas, Asia/Australia),
but
this should not create a situation where we must accept a city's
clearly
inferior bid just because it is the only one from its region.


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Re: Taipei chosen to host Wikimania 2007

Stephen Bain
In reply to this post by valdelli@bluemail.ch
On 10/2/06, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> To go in Taipei or in Boston or in Sidney is very expensive for a
> wikipedian, and most of all wikipedians are students with a little
> bit of money.

"For a Wikipedian"? I presume you meant to say "for a Wikipedian in
Europe". There are plenty of contributors in other parts of the world,
including an emergent community across Asia for whom Taipei is a
highly accessible location.

It's expensive both ways to travel long distances, remember, so
choosing location based on population is a surefire way to guarantee
that huge numbers of Wikimedians will never attend a Wikimania.

--
Stephen Bain
[hidden email]
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Re: Taipei chosen to host Wikimania 2007

valdelli@bluemail.ch
In reply to this post by phoebe ayers-3
I reply as the previous year... it depends.

How many persons must make a long journey? How many persons are
lucky?

I said that the previous year about the choose of Boston: how many
participants has had Wikimania 2006?

To partecipate is important but not mandatory.

Ilario



----Messaggio originale----
Da: [hidden email]
Data: 02.10.06 11.10
A: <[hidden email]>, "Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List"
<[hidden email]>
Oggetto: Re: [Foundation-l] Taipei chosen to host Wikimania 2007

On 10/2/06, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> To go in Taipei or in Boston or in Sidney is very expensive for
a
> wikipedian, and most of all wikipedians are students with a
little
> bit of money.

"For a Wikipedian"? I presume you meant to say "for a Wikipedian
in
Europe". There are plenty of contributors in other parts of the
world,
including an emergent community across Asia for whom Taipei is a
highly accessible location.

It's expensive both ways to travel long distances, remember, so
choosing location based on population is a surefire way to
guarantee
that huge numbers of Wikimedians will never attend a Wikimania.

--
Stephen Bain
[hidden email]



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Re: Taipei chosen to host Wikimania 2007

Effe iets anders
In reply to this post by valdelli@bluemail.ch
I think it is evry good to orginize local events. As well national (as
the polish did, the Dutch and the chinese this year at least)  but
maybe also per continent. But that has to be *besides* the Wikimania,
as it is another type of event imho. It would be nice to have one
event in august, one in november, december (national?) and one in
march (continental?). Then you spread it, and people can go where-ever
they want. It is of course a question whether there will be enough
people attending then. As people can only spend their money once...

effe

2006/10/2, [hidden email] <[hidden email]>:

> I strong support three different Wikimania: one for Europe/Africa,
> one for Asia/Australia, one form America.
>
> The Asia has got many problems and one Wikimania cannot solve them,
> but also the core of Wikipedians are in the Europe, but also the
> Digital Divide is a big problem in Africa, etc.
>
> Any choose will be always a "long long" discussion.
>
> Ilario
>
>
> ----Messaggio originale----
> Da: [hidden email]
> Data: 02.10.06 2.19
> A: "Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List"<[hidden email]>
> Oggetto: Re: [Foundation-l] Taipei chosen to host Wikimania 2007
>
> Birgitte SB wrote:
>
>
> I support the principle of rotating Wikimania around three broad
> geographical regions (Europe/Africa, The Americas, Asia/Australia),
> but
> this should not create a situation where we must accept a city's
> clearly
> inferior bid just because it is the only one from its region.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
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Re: Taipei chosen to host Wikimania 2007

Lars Aronsson
In reply to this post by valdelli@bluemail.ch
[hidden email] wrote:

> To go in Taipei or in Boston or in Sidney is very expensive for
> a wikipedian, and most of all wikipedians are students with a
> little bit of money.
>
> To have a Wikimania in each continent could be good to offer an
> opportunity to all wikipedians without claims.

On the other hand, all wikipedians have an Internet connection and
many wikipedians have *good* Internet connections through their
universities.  The conclusion must be that *online participation*
should be facilitated as far as possible.  Two-way video
participation in workshops, video broadcast of presentations,
direct chat, still photos, transcriptions and written summaries,
translations, etc.  Some don't have enough bandwidth to use
streaming video, but for those who can, it is more affordable than
visiting in person.

In fact, we don't have to wait until Wikimania.  Regular local
meetings of wikipedians could be shared over the Internet.  Has
anybody tried this already?  I don't mean simple IRC sessions, but
something like a video link between two local Wikipedia meet-ups?


--
  Lars Aronsson ([hidden email])
  Aronsson Datateknik - http://aronsson.se
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Re: Taipei chosen to host Wikimania 2007

Ray Saintonge
In reply to this post by Jimmy Wales
Jimmy Wales wrote:

>Ray Saintonge wrote:
>  
>
>>I don't think that it helps the transparency of the process when someone
>>like Jimbo begins by supporting a bid before the bidding has seriously
>>started.  It's the kind of prejudicial comment that tells everyone else
>>to give up before they even try.  It casts doubt on whether he believes
>>that the community has enough maturity to make good choices.
>>    
>>
>Hmm, I seem to have been very misunderstood.  I said "It isn't up to me,
>nor should it be" (or words to that effect, you'd have to look it up).
>I really meant that.
>
>The committee did a great job this year, and next year's committee will
>do a great job too.
>
>I know that my opinions are often viewed as carrying a lot of weight,
>and for that I sincerely apologize.  I just like Italy. :)  It was just
>a personal comment.
>
That's a big problem with theology.  Churches would be a lot poorer if
they didn't consistently misunderstand their God.

In the long run it's not the disclaimer that will be remembered, but the
core comment in that message.  I clearly prefer to assume good faith,
and I recognize that you must often walk on eggshells.  Unfortunately
the weight of your opinions goes well beyond what you anticipate.  I
don't know what the proper solution would be.  Being completely silent
does not seem like a good option either.

Ec

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Re: Taipei chosen to host Wikimania 2007

Ray Saintonge
In reply to this post by valdelli@bluemail.ch
[hidden email] wrote:

>I strong support three different Wikimania: one for Europe/Africa,
>one for Asia/Australia, one form America.
>
>The Asia has got many problems and one Wikimania cannot solve them,
>but also the core of Wikipedians are in the Europe, but also the
>Digital Divide is a big problem in Africa, etc.
>
>Any choose will be always a "long long" discussion.
>  
>
I have no objections to these regional meetups in addition to one big
worldwide event.  Having people meet internationally is very good for
getting to know each other.  There are several countries in Asia which
could handle the conference.  Australia too has several capable cities,
as does South America.

As for Africa and the digital divide it could be a humbling experience
for those of us from developed countries to go to a conference there.  
We could have first hand experience of the difficulties in bringing
knowledge to the people of that continent.

Ec

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Re: Taipei chosen to host Wikimania 2007

metasj
+++ Ray Saintonge [03/10/06 01:25 -0700]:

>[hidden email] wrote:
>
>>I strong support three different Wikimania: one for Europe/Africa,
>>one for Asia/Australia, one form America.
>>
>>The Asia has got many problems and one Wikimania cannot solve them,
>>but also the core of Wikipedians are in the Europe, but also the
>>Digital Divide is a big problem in Africa, etc.
>>
>As for Africa and the digital divide it could be a humbling experience
>for those of us from developed countries to go to a conference there.  
>We could have first hand experience of the difficulties in bringing
>knowledge to the people of that continent.

A very real digital divide exists; but your last statement could come
across as patronizing.  More interesting than 'bringing information to'
is receiving information from less technologically developed regions...
countering 'systemic bias' in a way that is only recently imaginable.

SJ
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Re: Taipei chosen to host Wikimania 2007

Gerard Meijssen-3
In reply to this post by valdelli@bluemail.ch
[hidden email] wrote:

> I strong support three different Wikimania: one for Europe/Africa,
> one for Asia/Australia, one form America.
>
> The Asia has got many problems and one Wikimania cannot solve them,
> but also the core of Wikipedians are in the Europe, but also the
> Digital Divide is a big problem in Africa, etc.
>
> Any choose will be always a "long long" discussion.
>
> Ilario
>
>
> ----Messaggio originale----
> Da: [hidden email]
> Data: 02.10.06 2.19
> A: "Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List"<[hidden email]>
> Oggetto: Re: [Foundation-l] Taipei chosen to host Wikimania 2007
>
> Birgitte SB wrote:
>
>
> I support the principle of rotating Wikimania around three broad
> geographical regions (Europe/Africa, The Americas, Asia/Australia),
> but
> this should not create a situation where we must accept a city's
> clearly
> inferior bid just because it is the only one from its region.
Hoi,
Apparently Wikimania is only for Wikipedians or people with an interest
in Wiktionary, Wikinews or Wikibooks have more money to spend. Truly
Wikimania is NOT about Wikipedia. Both Frankfurt and Boston welcomed the
other projects as warmly..  I am sure they will be as warmly welcomed in
Taipei.
Thanks,
    GerardM
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Re: Taipei chosen to host Wikimania 2007

R.O.C
Sorry but I cannot enjoy more Eurocentric languages. You may say as
well the first two Wikimanias are only for a few richer Asians.

Regards,

roc
--

2006/10/5, Gerard Meijssen <[hidden email]>:

> [hidden email] wrote:
> > I strong support three different Wikimania: one for Europe/Africa,
> > one for Asia/Australia, one form America.
> >
> > The Asia has got many problems and one Wikimania cannot solve them,
> > but also the core of Wikipedians are in the Europe, but also the
> > Digital Divide is a big problem in Africa, etc.
> >
> > Any choose will be always a "long long" discussion.
> >
> > Ilario
> >
> >
> > ----Messaggio originale----
> > Da: [hidden email]
> > Data: 02.10.06 2.19
> > A: "Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List"<[hidden email]>
> > Oggetto: Re: [Foundation-l] Taipei chosen to host Wikimania 2007
> >
> > Birgitte SB wrote:
> >
> >
> > I support the principle of rotating Wikimania around three broad
> > geographical regions (Europe/Africa, The Americas, Asia/Australia),
> > but
> > this should not create a situation where we must accept a city's
> > clearly
> > inferior bid just because it is the only one from its region.
> Hoi,
> Apparently Wikimania is only for Wikipedians or people with an interest
> in Wiktionary, Wikinews or Wikibooks have more money to spend. Truly
> Wikimania is NOT about Wikipedia. Both Frankfurt and Boston welcomed the
> other projects as warmly..  I am sure they will be as warmly welcomed in
> Taipei.
> Thanks,
>     GerardM
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
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Re: Taipei chosen to host Wikimania 2007

Birgitte_sb
In reply to this post by Gerard Meijssen-3

I don't know what happened with snipping of this
message but I did not write the text in support of
rotating Wikimania.  I don't have a firm opinion on
that issue.  

Birgitte SB

--- Gerard Meijssen <[hidden email]> wrote:

> [hidden email] wrote:
> > I strong support three different Wikimania: one
> for Europe/Africa,
> > one for Asia/Australia, one form America.
> >
> > The Asia has got many problems and one Wikimania
> cannot solve them,
> > but also the core of Wikipedians are in the
> Europe, but also the
> > Digital Divide is a big problem in Africa, etc.
> >
> > Any choose will be always a "long long"
> discussion.
> >
> > Ilario
> >
> >
> > ----Messaggio originale----
> > Da: [hidden email]
> > Data: 02.10.06 2.19
> > A: "Wikimedia Foundation Mailing
> List"<[hidden email]>
> > Oggetto: Re: [Foundation-l] Taipei chosen to host
> Wikimania 2007
> >
> > Birgitte SB wrote:
> >
> >
> > I support the principle of rotating Wikimania
> around three broad
> > geographical regions (Europe/Africa, The Americas,
> Asia/Australia),
> > but
> > this should not create a situation where we must
> accept a city's
> > clearly
> > inferior bid just because it is the only one from
> its region.
> Hoi,
> Apparently Wikimania is only for Wikipedians or
> people with an interest
> in Wiktionary, Wikinews or Wikibooks have more money
> to spend. Truly
> Wikimania is NOT about Wikipedia. Both Frankfurt and
> Boston welcomed the
> other projects as warmly..  I am sure they will be
> as warmly welcomed in
> Taipei.
> Thanks,
>     GerardM
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
>
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>


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Re: Taipei chosen to host Wikimania 2007

R.O.C
In reply to this post by R.O.C
I probably have misunderstood GerardM, and I would like to retract my
previous message and offer my apologies.

Indeed, as an international conference for an international
organization and its global projects, attending Wikimania in person
would always be expensive for some of us.

Best regards,

roc
--

2006/10/5, roc <[hidden email]>:

> Sorry but I cannot enjoy more Eurocentric languages. You may say as
> well the first two Wikimanias are only for a few richer Asians.
>
> Regards,
>
> roc
> --
>
> 2006/10/5, Gerard Meijssen <[hidden email]>:
> > [hidden email] wrote:
> > > I strong support three different Wikimania: one for Europe/Africa,
> > > one for Asia/Australia, one form America.
> > >
> > > The Asia has got many problems and one Wikimania cannot solve them,
> > > but also the core of Wikipedians are in the Europe, but also the
> > > Digital Divide is a big problem in Africa, etc.
> > >
> > > Any choose will be always a "long long" discussion.
> > >
> > > Ilario
> > >
> > >
> > > ----Messaggio originale----
> > > Da: [hidden email]
> > > Data: 02.10.06 2.19
> > > A: "Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List"<[hidden email]>
> > > Oggetto: Re: [Foundation-l] Taipei chosen to host Wikimania 2007
> > >
> > > Birgitte SB wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > I support the principle of rotating Wikimania around three broad
> > > geographical regions (Europe/Africa, The Americas, Asia/Australia),
> > > but
> > > this should not create a situation where we must accept a city's
> > > clearly
> > > inferior bid just because it is the only one from its region.
> > Hoi,
> > Apparently Wikimania is only for Wikipedians or people with an interest
> > in Wiktionary, Wikinews or Wikibooks have more money to spend. Truly
> > Wikimania is NOT about Wikipedia. Both Frankfurt and Boston welcomed the
> > other projects as warmly..  I am sure they will be as warmly welcomed in
> > Taipei.
> > Thanks,
> >     GerardM
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
>
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