That other encyclopedia

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That other encyclopedia

David Gerard-2
Seen this?

http://store.britannica.com/jump.jsp?itemID=114&itemType=CATEGORY&iMainCat=4&iSubCat=114&sort=1&dpid=14

You can get the full Britannica DVD for US$25!

At that sort of price, I'm tempted to get one myself, not least to say
to journalists that I'm not only a fan but I bought a copy ...

And they're clearing this at US$20:

http://store.britannica.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=247&itemType=PRODUCT&iProductID=247

Anyone with dreams of a printed Wikipedia 1.0 should look at this and
think how we can get there.


- d.
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Re: That other encyclopedia

Keith Old
On 3/24/06, David Gerard <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Seen this?
> >
> >
> > http://store.britannica.com/jump.jsp?itemID=114&itemType=CATEGORY&iMainCat=4&iSubCat=114&sort=1&dpid=14
> >
> > You can get the full Britannica DVD for US$25!
> >
> > At that sort of price, I'm tempted to get one myself, not least to say
> > to journalists that I'm not only a fan but I bought a copy ...
> >
> > And they're clearing this at US$20:
> >
> >
> > http://store.britannica.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=247&itemType=PRODUCT&iProductID=247
> >
> > Anyone with dreams of a printed Wikipedia 1.0 should look at this and
> > think how we can get there.
> >
> >
> > - d.
> >
> _______________________________________________
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>
I can actually have access to the academic edition through the Canberra
public library system for free through my Library card. For me, Britannica
is the free encyclopedia that I can't edit. It comes in handy for
researching articles from time to time though.

Regards


*Keith Old*
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Re: That other encyclopedia

Darren Ray
In reply to this post by David Gerard-2
Good value, but do you see Britannica as a direct competitor that you feel
the need to make constant reference too. I see them as very different.

Darren Ray


On 3/24/06, David Gerard <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Seen this?
>
>
> http://store.britannica.com/jump.jsp?itemID=114&itemType=CATEGORY&iMainCat=4&iSubCat=114&sort=1&dpid=14
>
> You can get the full Britannica DVD for US$25!
>
> At that sort of price, I'm tempted to get one myself, not least to say
> to journalists that I'm not only a fan but I bought a copy ...
>
> And they're clearing this at US$20:
>
>
> http://store.britannica.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=247&itemType=PRODUCT&iProductID=247
>
> Anyone with dreams of a printed Wikipedia 1.0 should look at this and
> think how we can get there.
>
>
> - d.
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>
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Re: That other encyclopedia

Alphax (Wikipedia email)
In reply to this post by Keith Old
Keith Old wrote:

> On 3/24/06, David Gerard <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>Seen this?
>>
>>
>>http://store.britannica.com/jump.jsp?itemID=114&itemType=CATEGORY&iMainCat=4&iSubCat=114&sort=1&dpid=14
>>
>>You can get the full Britannica DVD for US$25!
>>
>>At that sort of price, I'm tempted to get one myself, not least to say
>>to journalists that I'm not only a fan but I bought a copy ...
>>
>>And they're clearing this at US$20:
>>
>>
>>http://store.britannica.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=247&itemType=PRODUCT&iProductID=247
>>
>>Anyone with dreams of a printed Wikipedia 1.0 should look at this and
>>think how we can get there.
>>
>
> I can actually have access to the academic edition through the Canberra
> public library system for free through my Library card. For me, Britannica
> is the free encyclopedia that I can't edit. It comes in handy for
> researching articles from time to time though.
>
Free as in beer, you mean. I've heard that 1911 was the best though, and
that lots of stuff that /was/ in that version has been trimmed or
removed since, due to a lack of paper.

--
Alphax - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax
Contributor to Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia
"We make the internet not suck" - Jimbo Wales
Public key: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax/OpenPGP

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Re: That other encyclopedia

Steve Bennett-4
On 3/24/06, Alphax (Wikipedia email) <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Free as in beer, you mean. I've heard that 1911 was the best though, and
> that lots of stuff that /was/ in that version has been trimmed or
> removed since, due to a lack of paper.

Yeah, I hear their article on neurolinguistic programming was much
less controversial than ours...

Steve
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Re: That other encyclopedia

Daniel Mayer
In reply to this post by David Gerard-2
--- David Gerard <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Seen this?
>
>
http://store.britannica.com/jump.jsp?itemID=114&itemType=CATEGORY&iMainCat=4&iSubCat=114&sort=1&dpid=14
>
> You can get the full Britannica DVD for US$25!
>
> At that sort of price, I'm tempted to get one myself, not least to say
> to journalists that I'm not only a fan but I bought a copy ...
>
> And they're clearing this at US$20:
>
>
http://store.britannica.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=247&itemType=PRODUCT&iProductID=247
>
> Anyone with dreams of a printed Wikipedia 1.0 should look at this and
> think how we can get there.

How they can continue to improve their product and make a profit with those prices is a bit
concerning. I bought last year's Deluxe Reference Edition for $89 and thought that was a good
price. But now it seems that price has dropped at least twice. Even more worrisome is that this
year's regular price is even lower than what they say on that page was last year’s regular price.
Hopefully this is just a special and not a sign that EB is becoming desperate in the face of
Encarta and the growing use of the Internet as people's first stop for reference information.

BTW, I a bit disappointed in what I got ; all this time we’ve been putting Britannica on some kind
of pedestal and yet almost all the articles I’ve looked at were stubs whose only value to me would
be to help improve lead sections in our articles. And most of those had corresponding Wikipedia
articles that were longer, often much longer. Length and size are not everything (accuracy for one
is also very important), but I was expecting more meat for something I pay for. Especially when
the purpose of buying was to make sure corresponding Wikipedia articles cover all the same points.
Of course, a select few of their articles are famously large and detailed, but those seem to be
the exception and stubs seem to be the rule.

Don't take my word for it ; buy the DVD and see for yourself. It certainly is worth the money now
and something almost all of us can afford. You should also consider buying the Concise edition -
it is great reference to check against to make sure lead sections cover the most vital points of a
topic. I've found that EB’s introductory sections in their regular articles are not a good model
for our lead sections.

-- mav

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Re: That other encyclopedia

geni
In reply to this post by David Gerard-2
On 3/24/06, David Gerard <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Seen this?
>
> http://store.britannica.com/jump.jsp?itemID=114&itemType=CATEGORY&iMainCat=4&iSubCat=114&sort=1&dpid=14
>
> You can get the full Britannica DVD for US$25!
>
> At that sort of price, I'm tempted to get one myself, not least to say
> to journalists that I'm not only a fan but I bought a copy ...
>
> And they're clearing this at US$20:
>
> >http://store.britannica.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=247&itemType=PRODUCT&iProductID=247

They appear to be trying to undercut us. They also appear to be suceeding.

--
geni
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Re: That other encyclopedia

Steve Bennett-4
On 3/24/06, geni <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> They appear to be trying to undercut us. They also appear to be suceeding.

What are they undercutting exactly? For a second there, I thought I
was going to find Britannica selling Wikipedia on DVD for $30, and
Britannica on DVD for $20. Now *that* would be an interesting
marketing strategy!

Steve
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Re: That other encyclopedia

David Gerard
In reply to this post by Daniel Mayer
Daniel Mayer ([hidden email]) [060325 00:02]:
> --- David Gerard <[hidden email]> wrote:

> > http://store.britannica.com/jump.jsp?itemID=114&itemType=CATEGORY&iMainCat=4&iSubCat=114&sort=1&dpid=14
> > You can get the full Britannica DVD for US$25!
 
> How they can continue to improve their product and make a profit with those prices is a bit
> concerning.


Simple answer: they've been in the red for fifteen years ... they're
currently privately held by a rich enthusiast. (Sort of like British car
companies, which are regularly bought by a rich enthusiast who rapidly
becomes rather less rich, then selling it to another rich enthusiast ...)


> Hopefully this is just a special and not a sign that EB is becoming desperate in the face of
> Encarta and the growing use of the Internet as people's first stop for reference information.
 

I'm telling everyone I know. I really want to see EBI's faces when all
these people buy an EB DVD and tell them they heard about it from
Wikipedia.


> BTW, I a bit disappointed in what I got ; all this time we’ve been putting Britannica on some kind
> of pedestal and yet almost all the articles I’ve looked at were stubs whose only value to me would
> be to help improve lead sections in our articles. And most of those had corresponding Wikipedia
> articles that were longer, often much longer. Length and size are not everything (accuracy for one
> is also very important), but I was expecting more meat for something I pay for.


A lot of EB's reputation is mystique: who can afford US$3000 for the
legendary encyclopedia? But lots of people can afford $25. From what you
say, they might be surprised to find how good it really is or isn't.


> Don't take my word for it ; buy the DVD and see for yourself. It certainly is worth the money now
> and something almost all of us can afford. You should also consider buying the Concise edition -
> it is great reference to check against to make sure lead sections cover the most vital points of a
> topic. I've found that EB’s introductory sections in their regular articles are not a good model
> for our lead sections.


The point for me in buying the Concise edition is that it's the sort of
thing we'd want from a single-volume Wikipedia 1.0, so may be a useful
model in terms of paper per topic and so forth.


- d.



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Re: That other encyclopedia

David Gerard
In reply to this post by geni
geni ([hidden email]) [060325 00:08]:
> On 3/24/06, David Gerard <[hidden email]> wrote:

> > http://store.britannica.com/jump.jsp?itemID=114&itemType=CATEGORY&iMainCat=4&iSubCat=114&sort=1&dpid=14
> > You can get the full Britannica DVD for US$25!
 
> They appear to be trying to undercut us. They also appear to be suceeding.


Undercutting? I'd say it's the price point for an DVD encyclopedia. The de:
DVD is EUR10,- (about US$12). Encarta is US$45. The regular price of the EB
DVD is US$50. If we put up ISOs of a finished product en:, US$10 plus
postage sounds like a price point someone could sell them at for
convenience (4.7GB is slooow even on common present broadband) and a small
profit.


- d.



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Re: That other encyclopedia

geni
On 3/24/06, David Gerard <[hidden email]> wrote:

> geni ([hidden email]) [060325 00:08]:
> > On 3/24/06, David Gerard <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > > http://store.britannica.com/jump.jsp?itemID=114&itemType=CATEGORY&iMainCat=4&iSubCat=114&sort=1&dpid=14
> > > You can get the full Britannica DVD for US$25!
>
> > They appear to be trying to undercut us. They also appear to be suceeding.
>
>
> Undercutting? I'd say it's the price point for an DVD encyclopedia. The de:
> DVD is EUR10,- (about US$12). Encarta is US$45. The regular price of the EB
> DVD is US$50. If we put up ISOs of a finished product en:, US$10 plus
> postage sounds like a price point someone could sell them at for
> convenience (4.7GB is slooow even on common present broadband) and a small
> profit.
>
>
> - d.

look at the price for the condensed paper version. We would have a
hard time matching that.

--
geni
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Re: That other encyclopedia

Sam Korn
On 3/24/06, geni <[hidden email]> wrote:
> look at the price for the condensed paper version. We would have a
> hard time matching that.

Well, let's not try until we're better than them then.  That gives us
an extra selling point.

--
Sam
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Re: That other encyclopedia

Daniel Mayer
In reply to this post by David Gerard
--- David Gerard <[hidden email]> wrote:
> The point for me in buying the Concise edition is that it's the sort of
> thing we'd want from a single-volume Wikipedia 1.0, so may be a useful
> model in terms of paper per topic and so forth.

Yep - and it would be very easy to create a concise version of Wikipedia by exporting all
section=0 from a selected group of articles. We'd just need to make sure those lead sections are
good. Comparing their size and content with EB Concise (which is a great product, BTW) would help
us a lot.

Speaking of which, I just proposed a change to our lead section guideline on size in order to give
us enough room in leads to create good concise encyclopedia articles:

See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Lead_section#Changing_max_size_of_lead_sections

-- mav


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