The systematic and codified bias against non-Western articles on Wikinews

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
39 messages Options
12
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

The systematic and codified bias against non-Western articles on Wikinews

Shii
I am an American Wikipedia administrator living in Japan. Recently, as
you may have seen on the news (but not Wikinews), Japan got a new
prime minister. I watched his press conference and decided to grace
Wikinews with this breaking story within minutes after it happened.
The review process might delay it a few hours, but as it was 4AM EST,
I figured Wikinews would probably still scoop Reuters and the AP.

Five hours later (hmm, 9AM EST...), a reviewer finally looked at my
article and failed me on one count: THE FACT THAT THE EVENT TOOK PLACE
IN A FOREIGN COUNTRY. No joke. He informed me that because the people
at the press conference were not speaking English, and the reporting
on the article was not in English, it was likely the article would not
pass anyone's review. I asked for clarification on this astounding
statement, requested another review for the article, and waited.

And waited.

And waited.

And waited.

No changes were suggested to the article.

Nobody questioned the article's writing quality or accuracy.

It was simply ignored by every single reviewer on Wikinews.

Four days later, the article was junked, because it was "no longer
news". That's right: when I asked Wikinews to explain their policy of
denying all articles that had not been reported on in English, they
shut me out of their review system, with utter silence on the
discussion page, until my article was safely past an arbitrary
expiration date.

Naturally, I was pissed, because I put a good hour of work into the
article. I bothered the reviewers with new intensity, and finally they
told me that if I were to remove all the Japanese sources from the
article, it WOULD have been able to pass four days ago, but of course
their silent treatment had its intended effect of preventing this from
happening at all, so as far as Wikinews is concerned Japan has no new
prime minister and never will.

What did we learn from this? Wikinews does not permit articles about
non-Western events. If you attempt to submit such an article, even if
the event is obviously newsworthy, you will be ignored until your
submission is old enough that it is no longer news. This is how they
deal with "problem" articles.

In other words: DO NOT WRITE ANYTHING FOR WIKINEWS. YOU ARE WASTING YOUR TIME.

Of course, their front page doesn't say anything so blatant-- you have
to dig into the policies to find this statement. But what a Goddamn
waste of bandwidth! I certainly won't be donating to Wikimedia as long
as they are hosting such wastes of time like this.

The whole, Kafkaesque discussion can be found here:

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Talk:Yoshihiko_Noda_appointed_Prime_Minister_of_Japan

Shii

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: The systematic and codified bias against non-Western articles on Wikinews

Tom Morris-5
On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 05:53, Shii <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Five hours later (hmm, 9AM EST...), a reviewer finally looked at my
> article and failed me on one count: THE FACT THAT THE EVENT TOOK PLACE
> IN A FOREIGN COUNTRY. No joke. He informed me that because the people
> at the press conference were not speaking English, and the reporting
> on the article was not in English, it was likely the article would not
> pass anyone's review. I asked for clarification on this astounding
> statement, requested another review for the article, and waited.
>
> And waited.
>
> And waited.
>
> And waited.
>

Wikinews doesn't have a systematic bias against non-Western topics.

Wikinews has a systematic bias towards bureaucracy.

I wrote a story about the Israel Philarmonic Orchestra being protested
in London and it took four days to be published.

The Wikinews review process is slow and broken but it handles
non-Western topics: see http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Category:Chile

--
Tom Morris
<http://tommorris.org/>

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: The systematic and codified bias against non-Western articles on Wikinews

metasj
In reply to this post by Shii
Yikes.  I think the actual issue here is that we need to drive more
editors and contributors to Wikinews (or find an appropriate similar
project to merge with).

I am a fan of the Project -- I've had two people in the community-news
business in the last two weeks chat me up about wikinews because
either they'd seen something on it they liked or they wanted to engage
more field and local reporters with some similar platform.  But en:wn
is currently suffering from a chronic backlog.  this is only the most
egregious of a number of long delays.  While the "no english sources"
comment is awful, it's more about overwork and lack of multiple sets
of eyes to fix bugs of bad decisions, than it is a specific type of
bias.

SJ

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: The systematic and codified bias against non-Western articles on Wikinews

metasj
In reply to this post by Tom Morris-5
Right.  Switching back to an actual wiki model (hello nupedia ;) would
likely bring back many, many more editors as well.

S

On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 1:21 AM, Tom Morris <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 05:53, Shii <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Five hours later (hmm, 9AM EST...), a reviewer finally looked at my
>> article and failed me on one count: THE FACT THAT THE EVENT TOOK PLACE
>> IN A FOREIGN COUNTRY. No joke. He informed me that because the people
>> at the press conference were not speaking English, and the reporting
>> on the article was not in English, it was likely the article would not
>> pass anyone's review. I asked for clarification on this astounding
>> statement, requested another review for the article, and waited.
>>
>> And waited.
>>
>> And waited.
>>
>> And waited.
>>
>
> Wikinews doesn't have a systematic bias against non-Western topics.
>
> Wikinews has a systematic bias towards bureaucracy.
>
> I wrote a story about the Israel Philarmonic Orchestra being protested
> in London and it took four days to be published.
>
> The Wikinews review process is slow and broken but it handles
> non-Western topics: see http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Category:Chile
>
> --
> Tom Morris
> <http://tommorris.org/>
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>



--
Samuel Klein          identi.ca:sj           w:user:sj          +1 617 529 4266

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: The systematic and codified bias against non-Western articles on Wikinews

rupert THURNER-2
In reply to this post by Shii
can I vote for you as reviewer?
On Sep 6, 2011 6:55 AM, "Shii" <[hidden email]> wrote:
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: The systematic and codified bias against non-Western articles on Wikinews

rupert THURNER-2
In reply to this post by Shii
yes! and the rating of articles would then allow to drop all other quality
gates in place ....
On Sep 6, 2011 7:27 AM, "Samuel Klein" <[hidden email]> wrote:
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: The systematic and codified bias against non-Western articles on Wikinews

John Mark Vandenberg
In reply to this post by metasj
On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 3:26 PM, Samuel Klein <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Yikes.  I think the actual issue here is that we need to drive more
> editors and contributors to Wikinews (or find an appropriate similar
> project to merge with).

It would be great if the WMF put some resources behind sister projects .. ;-)

If WMF already is doing this, it isnt being heard on the blog or other
communication mechanisms.

--
John Vandenberg

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: The systematic and codified bias against non-Western articles on Wikinews

Fajro
In reply to this post by Tom Morris-5
The "In the news" section in the main page of Wikipedia should be a
Wikinews one.

Once I meet a teacher of a journalism school. He was interested in
using es.wikinews with their students.
I could not recommend them to use Wikinews, because the rules and
bureaucracy of Wikinoticias would have been a nightmare for them.

On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 2:21 AM, Tom Morris <[hidden email]> wrote:
> non-Western topics: see http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Category:Chile

Chile non-western?
Fixed! http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Chile&diff=prev&oldid=448703219

--
Fajro

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: The systematic and codified bias against non-Western articles on Wikinews

Tom Morris-5
On Tuesday, September 6, 2011, Fajro wrote:

> On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 2:21 AM, Tom Morris <[hidden email]<javascript:;>>
> wrote:
> > non-Western topics: see http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Category:Chile
>
> Chile non-western?
> Fixed!
> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Chile&diff=prev&oldid=448703219
>
>
Oh, I took it to mean Western as in (Europe + USA). Cultural imperialist, I
know.

--
Tom Morris
<http://tommorris.org/>


--
Tom Morris
<http://tommorris.org/>
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: The systematic and codified bias against non-Western articles on Wikinews

theo10011
English Wikinews has been broken for a while. The entire system is
predicated on the judgement of reviewers, and a handful of rather rude
admins. I saw some rather aggressive posture and a pretty threatening
demeanor employed towards others when I tried contributing early last year.

I once tried to submit an article on Wiknews a couple of years ago. It was
something about a Blue moon on New year's eve at the end of 2009, the story
at the time had a thousand legitimate sources on google news which
apparently wasn't deemed notable enough by a reviewer, several hours later
when the event itself had passed.

Now, compared to contributing on English Wikipedia which has a much higher
visibility rate, activity, and a giant repository of related articles,
Wikinews seemed less and less relevant. The entire policy of editorial
content on Wikinews is counter-productive when anyone can go and contribute
to the larger sister project much easily.

It's pitiful when you realize what it can be in the age of micro-blogging
with a diverse contributor base like ours. We already have more reporter and
contributors in every country than any news/wire service. We just can't
figure out how to use it.

Theo

On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 12:17 PM, Tom Morris <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Tuesday, September 6, 2011, Fajro wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 2:21 AM, Tom Morris <[hidden email]
> <javascript:;>>
> > wrote:
> > > non-Western topics: see http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Category:Chile
> >
> > Chile non-western?
> > Fixed!
> >
> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Chile&diff=prev&oldid=448703219
> >
> >
> Oh, I took it to mean Western as in (Europe + USA). Cultural imperialist, I
> know.
>
> --
> Tom Morris
> <http://tommorris.org/>
>
>
> --
> Tom Morris
> <http://tommorris.org/>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: The systematic and codified bias against non-Western articles on Wikinews

M. Williamson
In reply to this post by Tom Morris-5
Note that Google News, a popular news aggregator, often includes a link to
the Wikipedia article about breaking news and recent events, but never links
to Wikinews. Wikipedia is already largely accomplishing in many high-profile
cases what Wikinews aims to do. Also note that Chile is considered by many
to be a Western country; within a handful of years it will probably be in
the list of countries with "Very High" HDIs (barring any unforseen event),
joining the Western European countries, US, Canada, Japan, South Korea, Hong
Kong and a couple of gulf states. It seems the criteria for "the west" are
that you are a developed country in Europe or the Americas, and Chile is
both a developed country and it is located in the Americas. Despite the
often monolithic characterization of Latin America, it's not the case that
all Latin American countries are the same; some are struggling with grinding
poverty, such as Guatemala, Nicaragua, Honduras, Bolivia, while others are
high-income countries with developed economies, such as Chile, Argentina,
and Uruguay. I would definitely consider Chile, Argentina and Uruguay to be
part of "the west".

2011/9/6 Theo10011 <[hidden email]>

> English Wikinews has been broken for a while. The entire system is
> predicated on the judgement of reviewers, and a handful of rather rude
> admins. I saw some rather aggressive posture and a pretty threatening
> demeanor employed towards others when I tried contributing early last year.
>
> I once tried to submit an article on Wiknews a couple of years ago. It was
> something about a Blue moon on New year's eve at the end of 2009, the story
> at the time had a thousand legitimate sources on google news which
> apparently wasn't deemed notable enough by a reviewer, several hours later
> when the event itself had passed.
>
> Now, compared to contributing on English Wikipedia which has a much higher
> visibility rate, activity, and a giant repository of related articles,
> Wikinews seemed less and less relevant. The entire policy of editorial
> content on Wikinews is counter-productive when anyone can go and contribute
> to the larger sister project much easily.
>
> It's pitiful when you realize what it can be in the age of micro-blogging
> with a diverse contributor base like ours. We already have more reporter
> and
> contributors in every country than any news/wire service. We just can't
> figure out how to use it.
>
> Theo
>
> On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 12:17 PM, Tom Morris <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > On Tuesday, September 6, 2011, Fajro wrote:
> >
> > > On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 2:21 AM, Tom Morris <[hidden email]
> > <javascript:;>>
> > > wrote:
> > > > non-Western topics: see http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Category:Chile
> > >
> > > Chile non-western?
> > > Fixed!
> > >
> >
> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Chile&diff=prev&oldid=448703219
> > >
> > >
> > Oh, I took it to mean Western as in (Europe + USA). Cultural imperialist,
> I
> > know.
> >
> > --
> > Tom Morris
> > <http://tommorris.org/>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Tom Morris
> > <http://tommorris.org/>
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: The systematic and codified bias against non-Western articles on Wikinews

John Mark Vandenberg
On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 6:28 PM, M. Williamson <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Note that Google News, a popular news aggregator, often includes a link to
> the Wikipedia article about breaking news and recent events, but never links
> to Wikinews.

'never' is not quite correct.  Wikinews is aggregated into Google News.

http://www.google.com/search?aq=f&hl=en&gl=au&tbm=nws&btnmeta_news_search=1&q=wikinews

--
John Vandenberg

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: The systematic and codified bias against non-Western articles on Wikinews

Thomas Dalton
In reply to this post by Shii
On 6 September 2011 05:53, Shii <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I am an American Wikipedia administrator living in Japan. Recently, as
> you may have seen on the news (but not Wikinews), Japan got a new
> prime minister. I watched his press conference and decided to grace
> Wikinews with this breaking story within minutes after it happened.
> The review process might delay it a few hours, but as it was 4AM EST,
> I figured Wikinews would probably still scoop Reuters and the AP.
>
> Five hours later (hmm, 9AM EST...), a reviewer finally looked at my
> article and failed me on one count: THE FACT THAT THE EVENT TOOK PLACE
> IN A FOREIGN COUNTRY. No joke. He informed me that because the people
> at the press conference were not speaking English, and the reporting
> on the article was not in English, it was likely the article would not
> pass anyone's review. I asked for clarification on this astounding
> statement, requested another review for the article, and waited.

While I agree this isn't a good situation to be in, I'm not sure what
the alternative is. The reviewers need to be able to understand the
sources and there probably aren't many (any?) reviewers on the English
Wikinews that speak Japanese. They could do away with the review
system entirely (what purpose does it serve? Wikipedia doesn't require
things to be reviewed before being published and it seems to be doing
rather better...), but that's the only option I can see. I doubt
they'll be able to find reviewers that speak fluent English and
understand all the languages sources could possibly be in well enough
to review articles based on them.

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: The systematic and codified bias against non-Western articles on Wikinews

Nikola Smolenski-2
On 06/09/11 13:32, Thomas Dalton wrote:

> On 6 September 2011 05:53, Shii<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>> I am an American Wikipedia administrator living in Japan. Recently, as
>> you may have seen on the news (but not Wikinews), Japan got a new
>> prime minister. I watched his press conference and decided to grace
>> Wikinews with this breaking story within minutes after it happened.
>> The review process might delay it a few hours, but as it was 4AM EST,
>> I figured Wikinews would probably still scoop Reuters and the AP.
>>
>> Five hours later (hmm, 9AM EST...), a reviewer finally looked at my
>> article and failed me on one count: THE FACT THAT THE EVENT TOOK PLACE
>> IN A FOREIGN COUNTRY. No joke. He informed me that because the people
>> at the press conference were not speaking English, and the reporting
>> on the article was not in English, it was likely the article would not
>> pass anyone's review. I asked for clarification on this astounding
>> statement, requested another review for the article, and waited.
>
> While I agree this isn't a good situation to be in, I'm not sure what
> the alternative is. The reviewers need to be able to understand the

I have been reading about this new "wiki" technology: http://c2.com/

Apparently, this "wiki" thing enables its visitors, even unregistered
ones, to create new pages without any need for review! I therefore
suggest that "wiki" is installed on Wikinews and that would solve all
Shii's problems.

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: The systematic and codified bias against non-Western articles on Wikinews

Tom Morris-5
In reply to this post by Thomas Dalton
On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 12:32, Thomas Dalton <[hidden email]> wrote:
> While I agree this isn't a good situation to be in, I'm not sure what
> the alternative is. The reviewers need to be able to understand the
> sources and there probably aren't many (any?) reviewers on the English
> Wikinews that speak Japanese. They could do away with the review
> system entirely (what purpose does it serve? Wikipedia doesn't require
> things to be reviewed before being published and it seems to be doing
> rather better...),

Wikipedia does review In The News submissions before they go on the homepage.

Wikinews articles get syndicated out to Google News and posted on
Twitter, Facebook and other social media sites. There's something of a
responsibility to make sure they are good before doing so.

That said, there are ways to fix the problems: mainly by having a more
lightweight review process before publication. Have it so that the
story only has to be newsworthy and not have blatant sourcing/copyvio
problems, then modify the story after publication as new facts come
out for the next day or so.

Basically, this is how sites like BBC News operate: they'll often get
the story out within five minutes of getting it off the wire, then
rewrite it as they get more information. We may prefer to have a
slightly slower approach for sourcing reasons, but ideally it'd be
closer to half an hour than 72 hours.

English Wikinews' problems can be fixed with more reviewers. To get
more reviewers, we need more editors. To get more editors, we actually
have to publish their stories relatively quickly so they don't get
disenchanted and frustrated with the whole process. And to do that, we
need more reviewers. Chicken and egg problem...

--
Tom Morris
<http://tommorris.org/>

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: The systematic and codified bias against non-Western articles on Wikinews

Thomas Morton
n 6 September 2011 12:49, Tom Morris <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 12:32, Thomas Dalton <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > While I agree this isn't a good situation to be in, I'm not sure what
> > the alternative is. The reviewers need to be able to understand the
> > sources and there probably aren't many (any?) reviewers on the English
> > Wikinews that speak Japanese. They could do away with the review
> > system entirely (what purpose does it serve? Wikipedia doesn't require
> > things to be reviewed before being published and it seems to be doing
> > rather better...),
>
> Wikipedia does review In The News submissions before they go on the
> homepage.
>
> Wikinews articles get syndicated out to Google News and posted on
> Twitter, Facebook and other social media sites. There's something of a
> responsibility to make sure they are good before doing so.
>
> That said, there are ways to fix the problems: mainly by having a more
> lightweight review process before publication. Have it so that the
> story only has to be newsworthy and not have blatant sourcing/copyvio
> problems, then modify the story after publication as new facts come
> out for the next day or so.
>
> Basically, this is how sites like BBC News operate: they'll often get
> the story out within five minutes of getting it off the wire, then
> rewrite it as they get more information. We may prefer to have a
> slightly slower approach for sourcing reasons, but ideally it'd be
> closer to half an hour than 72 hours.
>
> English Wikinews' problems can be fixed with more reviewers. To get
> more reviewers, we need more editors. To get more editors, we actually
> have to publish their stories relatively quickly so they don't get
> disenchanted and frustrated with the whole process. And to do that, we
> need more reviewers. Chicken and egg problem...
>
> --
> Tom Morris
> <http://tommorris.org/>
>
>
Tom's comment here is *spot on*.

I contributed to WN way back in 2006; none of this process was really in
place then (there were reviews, but not as a technical implementation).
Content made it to the front page quite quickly, but there were quality
issues.

There are good reasons news publishers adopt an editorial policy that
involves someone experienced reading the piece. WikiNews seems to have
adopted this process - which is quite logical, and largely a good thing.

But as Tom say, online media has quickly found that the traditional
editorial process doesn't work so well on the internet. On the other hand
the net does allow very quick rewrite & expansion for a developing story.

It's this last step that WN perhaps hasn't learned or adopted yet.

Tom
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: The systematic and codified bias against non-Western articles on Wikinews

David Gerard-2
On 6 September 2011 12:56, Thomas Morton <[hidden email]> wrote:

> But as Tom say, online media has quickly found that the traditional
> editorial process doesn't work so well on the internet. On the other hand
> the net does allow very quick rewrite & expansion for a developing story.
> It's this last step that WN perhaps hasn't learned or adopted yet.


So how to get there from here?

Is anyone from Wikinews reading this discussion?


- d.

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: The systematic and codified bias against non-Western articles on Wikinews

Andre Engels
In reply to this post by Thomas Morton
On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 1:56 PM, Thomas Morton
<[hidden email]>wrote:


> But as Tom say, online media has quickly found that the traditional
> editorial process doesn't work so well on the internet. On the other hand
> the net does allow very quick rewrite & expansion for a developing story.
>
> It's this last step that WN perhaps hasn't learned or adopted yet.
>

That sounds weird. Basically what you're saying is that Wikinews is less
wiki-like than traditional news venues.

--
André Engels, [hidden email]
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: The systematic and codified bias against non-Western articles on Wikinews

Thomas Morton
On 6 September 2011 13:54, Andre Engels <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 1:56 PM, Thomas Morton
> <[hidden email]>wrote:
>
>
> > But as Tom say, online media has quickly found that the traditional
> > editorial process doesn't work so well on the internet. On the other hand
> > the net does allow very quick rewrite & expansion for a developing story.
> >
> > It's this last step that WN perhaps hasn't learned or adopted yet.
> >
>
> That sounds weird. Basically what you're saying is that Wikinews is less
> wiki-like than traditional news venues.
>
> --
> André Engels, [hidden email]
>

Well, yes, in some ways certainly!

The BBC is definitely the poster boy for this situation - as a traditional
news vendor (as opposed to some of the blogs turned media outlets) they have
masterfully converted from the old to the new. There is a lot to be learned
from them.

On the other hand, sure, WikiNews is more open to random edits :)

Tom
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: The systematic and codified bias against non-Western articles on Wikinews

Kim Bruning
In reply to this post by Shii
On Tue, Sep 06, 2011 at 01:53:53PM +0900, Shii wrote:
> And waited.
>
> And waited.
>
> And waited.
>

I think that's par for the course. I managed to find someone for
wikinews who lived 2 blocks away from the bangkok protests!

They dropped that ball too, sadly. (And I'm very pro-wikinews in
general)

Wikinews' slowness was less of an issue a few years ago, (but
still somewhat present)  when we _nearly_ scooped the NSA domestic
wiretapping story. :-/

So the process is definitely something worth working on!

sincerely,
        Kim Bruning


_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
12