Translate "Wikimedia Foundation" or not?

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Translate "Wikimedia Foundation" or not?

Habj
Different languages translate real names to varying degree. Do you
translate the name "Wikimedia Foundation" to your individual
languages, or do you leave it as it is?

For a start, I did translate "Foundation" to "Stiftelsen" ("Wikimedia
Foundation" => "stiftelsen Wikimedia"). I took Wikimedia for the name,
and "foundation" as a description. Then I was told that WMF
technically actually is not a foundation, but a non-commercial
company. If the WMF actually is not a foundation it seems misleading
to translate the word "Foundation", and anyhow translations of true
names is a troublesome business. Currently I most of the time
abbreviate it "WMF", which seems smoother than writing "Wikimedia
Foundation" over and over in Swedish text.

Has this been discussed anywhere? Has the Board, or anyone else,
voiced opinions?

/HB
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Re: Translate "Wikimedia Foundation" or not?

Pedro Sanchez-2
On 12/30/06, habj <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Different languages translate real names to varying degree. Do you
> translate the name "Wikimedia Foundation" to your individual
> languages, or do you leave it as it is?
>
> For a start, I did translate "Foundation" to "Stiftelsen" ("Wikimedia
> Foundation" => "stiftelsen Wikimedia"). I took Wikimedia for the name,
> and "foundation" as a description. Then I was told that WMF
> technically actually is not a foundation, but a non-commercial
> company. If the WMF actually is not a foundation it seems misleading
> to translate the word "Foundation", and anyhow translations of true
> names is a troublesome business. Currently I most of the time
> abbreviate it "WMF", which seems smoother than writing "Wikimedia
> Foundation" over and over in Swedish text.
>
> Has this been discussed anywhere? Has the Board, or anyone else,
> voiced opinions?
>
> /HB
> _______________________________________________
> Translators-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
>

In spanish we do translate it "Wikimedia Foundation" -> "Fundación Wikimedia"
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Re: Translate "Wikimedia Foundation" or not?

Jan Urbánek
In reply to this post by Habj
As far as my research goes "Wikimedia Foundation (Inc.)" is the name of the organisation. So I leave it untouched.

Because of need of the declension in Czech language, I use kind of pleonasm -- nadace Wikimedia Foundation (nadace = "foundation").

--
Zirland

On 12/30/06, habj <[hidden email]> wrote:
Different languages translate real names to varying degree. Do you
translate the name "Wikimedia Foundation" to your individual
languages, or do you leave it as it is?

For a start, I did translate "Foundation" to "Stiftelsen" ("Wikimedia
Foundation" => "stiftelsen Wikimedia"). I took Wikimedia for the name,
and "foundation" as a description. Then I was told that WMF
technically actually is not a foundation, but a non-commercial
company. If the WMF actually is not a foundation it seems misleading
to translate the word "Foundation", and anyhow translations of true
names is a troublesome business. Currently I most of the time
abbreviate it "WMF", which seems smoother than writing "Wikimedia
Foundation" over and over in Swedish text.

Has this been discussed anywhere? Has the Board, or anyone else,
voiced opinions?

/HB
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Re: Translate "Wikimedia Foundation" or not?

Mohamed Ibrahim
In reply to this post by Pedro Sanchez-2
In Arabic we do translate as well --> مؤسسة ويكيميديا
however, some people transliterate it into Arabic --> ويكيميديا فونداشين
but the main way used on Meta right now or on WMF site is the first
check [[Foundation (charity)]] [1] entry on Wikipedia, I can see WMF is defined as a foundation not a company.

A foundation is a type of philanthropic or charitable organization set up by individuals or institutions as a legal entity (a corporation or trust) with the purpose of distributing grants to support causes in line with the goals of the foundation or as a charitable entity that receives grants in order to support a specific activity or activities of charitable purpose. Wikimedia Foundation, Inc., parent organization of Wikipedia, is an example of the latter.

1.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundation_(charity)

On 12/30/06, Pedro Sanchez <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 12/30/06, habj <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Different languages translate real names to varying degree. Do you
> translate the name "Wikimedia Foundation" to your individual
> languages, or do you leave it as it is?
>
> For a start, I did translate "Foundation" to "Stiftelsen" ("Wikimedia
> Foundation" => "stiftelsen Wikimedia"). I took Wikimedia for the name,
> and "foundation" as a description. Then I was told that WMF
> technically actually is not a foundation, but a non-commercial
> company. If the WMF actually is not a foundation it seems misleading
> to translate the word "Foundation", and anyhow translations of true
> names is a troublesome business. Currently I most of the time
> abbreviate it "WMF", which seems smoother than writing "Wikimedia
> Foundation" over and over in Swedish text.
>
> Has this been discussed anywhere? Has the Board, or anyone else,
> voiced opinions?
>
> /HB
> _______________________________________________
> Translators-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
>

In spanish we do translate it "Wikimedia Foundation" -> "Fundación Wikimedia"
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Re: Translate "Wikimedia Foundation" or not?

A. Özgür Erdemli
In Turkish I translated it but also wrote the original name in parenthesis only one tıme where ıt fırst appears. Like:
Wikimedia Vakfı (Wikimedia Foundation)
then
"Wikimedia Vakfı" on rest of the text.

Dbl2010
On 12/30/06, Mohamed Ibrahim <[hidden email]> wrote:
In Arabic we do translate as well --> مؤسسة ويكيميديا
however, some people transliterate it into Arabic --> ويكيميديا فونداشين
but the main way used on Meta right now or on WMF site is the first
check [[Foundation (charity)]] [1] entry on Wikipedia, I can see WMF is defined as a foundation not a company.

A foundation is a type of philanthropic or charitable organization set up by individuals or institutions as a legal entity (a corporation or trust) with the purpose of distributing grants to support causes in line with the goals of the foundation or as a charitable entity that receives grants in order to support a specific activity or activities of charitable purpose. Wikimedia Foundation, Inc., parent organization of Wikipedia, is an example of the latter.

1.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundation_(charity)


On 12/30/06, Pedro Sanchez <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 12/30/06, habj <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Different languages translate real names to varying degree. Do you
> translate the name "Wikimedia Foundation" to your individual
> languages, or do you leave it as it is?
>
> For a start, I did translate "Foundation" to "Stiftelsen" ("Wikimedia
> Foundation" => "stiftelsen Wikimedia"). I took Wikimedia for the name,
> and "foundation" as a description. Then I was told that WMF
> technically actually is not a foundation, but a non-commercial
> company. If the WMF actually is not a foundation it seems misleading
> to translate the word "Foundation", and anyhow translations of true
> names is a troublesome business. Currently I most of the time
> abbreviate it "WMF", which seems smoother than writing "Wikimedia
> Foundation" over and over in Swedish text.
>
> Has this been discussed anywhere? Has the Board, or anyone else,
> voiced opinions?
>
> /HB
> _______________________________________________
> Translators-l mailing list
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> <a href="http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
>

In spanish we do translate it "Wikimedia Foundation" -> "Fundación Wikimedia"
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Re: Translate "Wikimedia Foundation" or not?

Brion Vibber
In reply to this post by Habj
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

habj wrote:
> Different languages translate real names to varying degree. Do you
> translate the name "Wikimedia Foundation" to your individual
> languages, or do you leave it as it is?

I've generally used/seen 'Fondaĵo Wikimedia' in Esperanto, though I'm
not certain that usage is current.

> For a start, I did translate "Foundation" to "Stiftelsen" ("Wikimedia
> Foundation" => "stiftelsen Wikimedia"). I took Wikimedia for the name,
> and "foundation" as a description. Then I was told that WMF
> technically actually is not a foundation, but a non-commercial
> company. If the WMF actually is not a foundation it seems misleading
> to translate the word "Foundation",

Well, being a foundation and being a non-commercial company are not
mutually exclusive.

As far as I understand (but I am *not* a lawyer!) there isn't really a
legal definition of 'foundation' as such in the US. A legal entity that
is what we'd call a foundation is going to be some sort of non-profit
corporation -- the incorporation is what gives it a legal existence --
and there will be some specific legal term for that which is not
"foundation".

That doesn't make it "not a foundation" any more than it makes it "not a
charity" or "not an organization"; it is all of those things.

In the particular case of "Wikimedia Foundation, Inc." it is considered
a domestic not-for-profit corporation under Florida state law.

But what the proper translation of that into other languages and, worse,
other legal systems might be, I couldn't really say. ;)

</ianal>

> and anyhow translations of true names is a troublesome business.

Too true. :P

> Has this been discussed anywhere? Has the Board, or anyone else,
> voiced opinions?

When the Foundation was young and dinosaurs ruled the earth, I tried to
get clear answers about how translations of project names and other such
names should be managed, but the board at the time was not really
interested in getting involved in the issue. (IMHO that's a problem when
it comes to branding and trademark management...)

Might be worth popping the question over at HQ, see what current
management thinks, but I would not be surprised if they don't consider
it that big an issue to muddle in either.

In theory this ought to be a question for the executive director
(presently Brad) rather than bugging individual board members, I suppose...

- -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com / brion @ wikimedia.org)
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Re: Translate "Wikimedia Foundation" or not?

KIZU Naoko
First, as for translation/transliteration, in Japanese we call WMF
Wikimedia "Zaidan" (in Kanji, 財団), transcript Wikimedia in katakana
and translate Foundation. Zaidan is both a part of Japanese civil code
terminology for non-profit corporates, and prefer to a translation of
"Fund", "Foundation" "Stiffung" etc.

On the other hand, if I recall correctly, German community prefer to
keep the English name "Wikimedia Foundation".

Again I say, it depends on highly your audience - and of course if WMF
Board/Office has an opinion, we are happy to hear from them (anyway it
is their name, or not?)

On 12/31/06, Brion Vibber <[hidden email]> wrote:
> When the Foundation was young and dinosaurs ruled the earth, I tried to
> get clear answers about how translations of project names and other such
> names should be managed, but the board at the time was not really
> interested in getting involved in the issue. (IMHO that's a problem when
> it comes to branding and trademark management...)

The time seems to be coming, or has come. Chinese community recently
has reported there are some possible transliteration of wiki into
Chinese, and any other transliterations than our Chinese friend has
been adopting could be registered by the third parties, if I recall
correctly; there are tons of letter which are pronounced "wi" and also
"ki" ...

> Might be worth popping the question over at HQ, see what current
> management thinks, but I would not be surprised if they don't consider
> it that big an issue to muddle in either.
>
> In theory this ought to be a question for the executive director
> (presently Brad) rather than bugging individual board members, I suppose...

Sure, I saw a Chinese editor asked one possible transliteration of
Wikiversity is okay to the Foundation. I thought Brad answered
affirmatively (and the transliteration seemed to me the most natural
candidate according to our current custom), but I am not sure if the
Foundation would go to register/claim that Chinese literation
(Wikiversity itself hasn't been registered IIRC...)

For further discussion, if we have a summary of this list of
translation/-literation, it might be helpful. Has anyone alreay begin
to summarize?

--
KIZU Naoko
  Wikiquote: http://wikiquote.org
  * Nessuna poesia prima di noi *
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Re: Translate "Wikimedia Foundation" or not?

Gianluigi Gamba
In reply to this post by Habj
habj ha scritto:
> Different languages translate real names to varying degree. Do you
> translate the name "Wikimedia Foundation" to your individual
> languages, or do you leave it as it is?
In Italian it's left as it is most of the times, also for avoiding
misunderstanding related to the slightly different legal definitions of
a "foundation" is the US and a "fondazione" in Italy.
Should it be translated, it should be more correctly specified that
Wikimedia is a "foundation according the US law" ("fondazione di diritto
statunitense").

Bye all,
G.
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Re: Translate "Wikimedia Foundation" or not?

Viktor N
In reply to this post by A. Özgür Erdemli
In Hungarian it's translated: "Wikimedia Alapítvány".
I think it is often up to the language customs. eg. the German
community prefers keeping the English originals.

AgentVic

2006/12/30, A. Özgür Erdemli <[hidden email]>:

> In Turkish I translated it but also wrote the original name in parenthesis
> only one tıme where ıt fırst appears. Like:
> Wikimedia Vakfı (Wikimedia Foundation)
> then
> "Wikimedia Vakfı" on rest of the text.
>
> Dbl2010
>
> On 12/30/06, Mohamed Ibrahim <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > In Arabic we do translate as well --> مؤسسة ويكيميديا
> > however, some people transliterate it into Arabic --> ويكيميديا فونداشين
> > but the main way used on Meta right now or on WMF site is the first
> > check [[Foundation (charity)]] [1] entry on Wikipedia, I can see WMF is
> defined as a foundation not a company.
> >
> >
> > A foundation is a type of philanthropic or charitable organization set up
> by individuals or institutions as a legal entity (a corporation or trust)
> with the purpose of distributing grants to support causes in line with the
> goals of the foundation or as a charitable entity that receives grants in
> order to support a specific activity or activities of charitable purpose.
> Wikimedia Foundation, Inc., parent organization of Wikipedia, is an example
> of the latter.
> >
> > 1.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundation_(charity)
> >
> >
> >
> > On 12/30/06, Pedro Sanchez < [hidden email]> wrote:
> > > On 12/30/06, habj <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > Different languages translate real names to varying degree. Do you
> > > > translate the name "Wikimedia Foundation" to your individual
> > > > languages, or do you leave it as it is?
> > > >
> > > > For a start, I did translate "Foundation" to "Stiftelsen" ("Wikimedia
> > > > Foundation" => "stiftelsen Wikimedia"). I took Wikimedia for the name,
> > > > and "foundation" as a description. Then I was told that WMF
> > > > technically actually is not a foundation, but a non-commercial
> > > > company. If the WMF actually is not a foundation it seems misleading
> > > > to translate the word "Foundation", and anyhow translations of true
> > > > names is a troublesome business. Currently I most of the time
> > > > abbreviate it "WMF", which seems smoother than writing "Wikimedia
> > > > Foundation" over and over in Swedish text.
> > > >
> > > > Has this been discussed anywhere? Has the Board, or anyone else,
> > > > voiced opinions?
> > > >
> > > > /HB
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Translators-l mailing list
> > > > [hidden email]
> > > >
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
> > > >
> > >
> > > In spanish we do translate it "Wikimedia Foundation" -> "Fundación
> Wikimedia"
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Translators-l mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > >
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > - [[user:Mido]]
> > - Arabic Wikipedia: http://ar.wikipedia.org/  "Share your knowledge"
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Translators-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/translators-l
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
>
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Re: Translate "Wikimedia Foundation" or not?

Habj
In reply to this post by KIZU Naoko
2006/12/31, Aphaia <[hidden email]>:

> For further discussion, if we have a summary of this list of
> translation/-literation, it might be helpful. Has anyone alreay begin
> to summarize?

Well, so far from this mailling list we have what I compiled below,
from translators to nine languages + what several of them have said
about the German speaking projects.

/habj

-----------

Arabic: translated to  مؤسسة ويكيميديا
sometimes translitterated  ويكيميديا فونداشين

Czech: Wikimedia Foundation left untranslated, explained as nadace
Wikimedia Foundation (nadace = "foundation")

Esperanto: translated to Fondaĵo Wikimedia

German: not translated

Hungarian: translated to Wikimedia Alapítvány

Italian: most of the times not translated, since the legal definitions
of US "foundation" and Italian "fondazione" are slightly different. If
translated, it should be more correctly specified that
Wikimedia is a "foundation according the US law" ("fondazione di diritto
statunitense").

Japanese: translated to Wikimedia Zaidan with wikimedia
translitterated in katakana, och Foundation translated to kanji for
zaidan 財団

Spanish: translated to Fundación Wikimedia

Swedish: both translated to Stiftelsen Wikimedia, and untranslated is used

Turkish: Wikimedia Vakfı (Wikimedia Foundation) the first time it
appears, then Wikimedia Vakfı on rest of the text
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Re: Translate "Wikimedia Foundation" or not?

Habj
In reply to this post by Brion Vibber
2006/12/31, Gianluigi Gamba <[hidden email]>:

> In Italian it's left as it is most of the times, also for avoiding
> misunderstanding related to the slightly different legal definitions of
> a "foundation" is the US and a "fondazione" in Italy.
> Should it be translated, it should be more correctly specified that
> Wikimedia is a "foundation according the US law" ("fondazione di diritto
> statunitense").

Unlike you, most of us people who try to translate probably don't
really have a clue about what our local laws consider a foundation,
and how this differs to the US definition. I certainly don't. I get
this kind of problem over and over again, when we get to terms that
are financial or  legal, regarding the WMF - the systems are so
different in the different countries. Even if I ask a Swede who is
informed about the field in Swedish context, he or she might not be
able to help me choose the right word because there is no direct
equivalent. I guess this is the same for most of the European
countries; for the rest of the world I have no clue.


2006/12/31, Brion Vibber <[hidden email]>:

> Well, being a foundation and being a non-commercial company are not
> mutually exclusive.

That sounds strange to my ears - but then this is not my field at all.
You've explained in enough, I think, for me to use the translated
version more happily than I have (I have avoided it for some time).


2006/12/30, A. Özgür Erdemli <[hidden email]>:
> In Turkish I translated it but also wrote the original name in parenthesis
> only one tıme where ıt fırst appears. Like:
> Wikimedia Vakfı (Wikimedia Foundation)
> then
> "Wikimedia Vakfı" on rest of the text.

I really like this solution! and I will probably copy it, at least for
now. Since it clearly shows how the Turkish/Swedish/whatever name is
not the actual name but merely a translation, the conclusion that
there might possibly be some legal differences is there for the reader
to make if he or she is concerned about such matters.

/habj
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Re: Translate "Wikimedia Foundation" or not?

Pedro Sanchez-2
On 12/31/06, habj <[hidden email]> wrote:

> 2006/12/31, Gianluigi Gamba <[hidden email]>:
>
> > In Italian it's left as it is most of the times, also for avoiding
> > misunderstanding related to the slightly different legal definitions of
> > a "foundation" is the US and a "fondazione" in Italy.
> > Should it be translated, it should be more correctly specified that
> > Wikimedia is a "foundation according the US law" ("fondazione di diritto
> > statunitense").
>
> Unlike you, most of us people who try to translate probably don't
> really have a clue about what our local laws consider a foundation,
> and how this differs to the US definition. I certainly don't. I get
> this kind of problem over and over again, when we get to terms that
> are financial or  legal, regarding the WMF - the systems are so
> different in the different countries. Even if I ask a Swede who is
> informed about the field in Swedish context, he or she might not be
> able to help me choose the right word because there is no direct
> equivalent. I guess this is the same for most of the European
> countries; for the rest of the world I have no clue.
>
>
> 2006/12/31, Brion Vibber <[hidden email]>:
>
> > Well, being a foundation and being a non-commercial company are not
> > mutually exclusive.
>
> That sounds strange to my ears - but then this is not my field at all.
> You've explained in enough, I think, for me to use the translated
> version more happily than I have (I have avoided it for some time).
>
>
> 2006/12/30, A. Özgür Erdemli <[hidden email]>:
> > In Turkish I translated it but also wrote the original name in parenthesis
> > only one tıme where ıt fırst appears. Like:
> > Wikimedia Vakfı (Wikimedia Foundation)
> > then
> > "Wikimedia Vakfı" on rest of the text.
>
> I really like this solution! and I will probably copy it, at least for
> now. Since it clearly shows how the Turkish/Swedish/whatever name is
> not the actual name but merely a translation, the conclusion that
> there might possibly be some legal differences is there for the reader
> to make if he or she is concerned about such matters.
>
> /habj
> _______________________________________________
> Translators-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
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>

Well, maybe wikilinking first appearance of "Wikimedia Foundation" (or
the local equivalent" to a proper place wehre it's pointed or
formarlly defined (maybe main page, it's wikimedia foundation wiki
after all). ?
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Re: Translate "Wikimedia Foundation" or not?

Fruggo
In reply to this post by Habj
Dutch: mostly not translated.

-Fruggo

On 12/31/06, habj <[hidden email]> wrote:
2006/12/31, Aphaia <[hidden email]>:

> For further discussion, if we have a summary of this list of
> translation/-literation, it might be helpful. Has anyone alreay begin
> to summarize?

Well, so far from this mailling list we have what I compiled below,
from translators to nine languages + what several of them have said
about the German speaking projects.

/habj

-----------

Arabic: translated to  مؤسسة ويكيميديا
sometimes translitterated  ويكيميديا فونداشين

Czech: Wikimedia Foundation left untranslated, explained as nadace
Wikimedia Foundation (nadace = "foundation")

Esperanto: translated to Fondaĵo Wikimedia

German: not translated

Hungarian: translated to Wikimedia Alapítvány

Italian: most of the times not translated, since the legal definitions
of US "foundation" and Italian "fondazione" are slightly different. If
translated, it should be more correctly specified that
Wikimedia is a "foundation according the US law" ("fondazione di diritto
statunitense").

Japanese: translated to Wikimedia Zaidan with wikimedia
translitterated in katakana, och Foundation translated to kanji for
zaidan 財団

Spanish: translated to Fundación Wikimedia

Swedish: both translated to Stiftelsen Wikimedia, and untranslated is used

Turkish: Wikimedia Vakfı (Wikimedia Foundation) the first time it
appears, then Wikimedia Vakfı on rest of the text
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