Understanding multi-language versions of wiki

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Understanding multi-language versions of wiki

Hugh Prior
I want to have a wiki in (say) English and French .  Does that mean I have
to have 2 copies of the wiki software?!?

When I define, on my (shared hosting) host, I get by default a seperate
directory for each sub-domain, e.g.
en.mysite.com  => /home/www/en.mysite.com
fr.mysite.com => /home/www/fr.mysite.com

I suppose therefore all I have to then do is install a version of the wiki
software in each of these subdirectories, define an entry in the interwiki
link table which says that a link like [[fr:My French Page]] is really a
link to [[http://fr.mysite.com]], and bingo, the new wiki code in each
directory will deal with it.

BUT, if I have 50 languages, I don't really want 50 copies of the wiki
software!  Or is this the way I need to do it?  I can imagine setting up a
single generic language version, such as:
generic.mysite.com => /home/www/generic.mysite.com
but then all my links go to that version, such that [[en:My English Page]]
becomes a link to [[http://generic.mysite.com]] and [[fr:My French Page]]
becomes a link to [[http://generic.mysite.com]] and I have lost the language
information that "My English Page" is "en" and "My French Page" is "fr".

I hope I have explained clearly enough.  Thanks for any pointers.



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Re: Understanding multi-language versions of wiki

Elliott F. Cable
symlink the directories. werked 4 mee. phoniks did, I meen.

On May 13, 2006, at 3:28 AM, Hugh Prior wrote:

> I want to have a wiki in (say) English and French .  Does that mean  
> I have
> to have 2 copies of the wiki software?!?
>
> When I define, on my (shared hosting) host, I get by default a  
> seperate
> directory for each sub-domain, e.g.
> en.mysite.com  => /home/www/en.mysite.com
> fr.mysite.com => /home/www/fr.mysite.com
>
> I suppose therefore all I have to then do is install a version of  
> the wiki
> software in each of these subdirectories, define an entry in the  
> interwiki
> link table which says that a link like [[fr:My French Page]] is  
> really a
> link to [[http://fr.mysite.com]], and bingo, the new wiki code in each
> directory will deal with it.
>
> BUT, if I have 50 languages, I don't really want 50 copies of the wiki
> software!  Or is this the way I need to do it?  I can imagine  
> setting up a
> single generic language version, such as:
> generic.mysite.com => /home/www/generic.mysite.com
> but then all my links go to that version, such that [[en:My English  
> Page]]
> becomes a link to [[http://generic.mysite.com]] and [[fr:My French  
> Page]]
> becomes a link to [[http://generic.mysite.com]] and I have lost the  
> language
> information that "My English Page" is "en" and "My French Page" is  
> "fr".
>
> I hope I have explained clearly enough.  Thanks for any pointers.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> MediaWiki-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l

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Re: Understanding multi-language versions of wiki

Hugh Prior
Thanks for the quick reply.  Though I don't really understand it at all.

Can you explain what you mean by "symlink the directories"?  I suppose
somehow you mean that you pointed all of the languages at a single mediawiki
directory, but how?  And how does this preserve the different languages?

Can you give an example of how you set it up?

Thanks.

"Elliott F. Cable" <[hidden email]> wrote in message
news:[hidden email]...
> symlink the directories. werked 4 mee. phoniks did, I meen.



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Re: Understanding multi-language versions of wiki

Rob Church
On 13/05/06, Hugh Prior <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Thanks for the quick reply.  Though I don't really understand it at all.
>
> Can you explain what you mean by "symlink the directories"?  I suppose
> somehow you mean that you pointed all of the languages at a single mediawiki
> directory, but how?  And how does this preserve the different languages?
>
> Can you give an example of how you set it up?

Have a look at http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki_FAQ#How_do_I_create_a_small_wiki_farm.3F,
which contains pointers on getting started with multiple installations
running off the same code.

Be aware that there are vast possibilities, however; Wikimedia does it
in a more complex manner, and I bet Wikitravel and Wikia do it with
slight variations too. Many of our regulars in the #mediawiki IRC
channel run multiple wikis, and each seems to have developed an
evolved solution fitted to his/her needs.


Rob Church
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Re: Understanding multi-language versions of wiki

Rotem Liss
In reply to this post by Hugh Prior
See
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki_FAQ#How_do_I_create_a_small_wiki_farm.3F


Hugh Prior wrote:

>Thanks for the quick reply.  Though I don't really understand it at all.
>
>Can you explain what you mean by "symlink the directories"?  I suppose
>somehow you mean that you pointed all of the languages at a single mediawiki
>directory, but how?  And how does this preserve the different languages?
>
>Can you give an example of how you set it up?
>
>Thanks.
>
>"Elliott F. Cable" <[hidden email]> wrote in message
>news:[hidden email]...
>  
>
>>symlink the directories. werked 4 mee. phoniks did, I meen.
>>    
>>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
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>[hidden email]
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>
>  
>
--
#define Name RotemLiss
#define Mail mailSTRUDELrotemlissDOTcom
#define Site www.rotemliss.com


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Re: Understanding multi-language versions of wiki

Hugh Prior
In reply to this post by Rob Church
Thanks, that's just what I was looking for.

> Have a look at
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki_FAQ#How_do_I_create_a_small_wiki_farm.3F,

Now, a little rant (also put on
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help_talk:FAQ#Why_is_the_non-meta_page_missing_information_found_on_meta.3F):

Why is the meta version of this page
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki_FAQ much better (i.e. much more
comprehensive) than this page? For example, I was looking for ages for info
on how to create a multi-lingual site, of course read this page, then via
the forums got the answer from the Rob Church and Rotem Liss posts (13th May
2006) that I should check:

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki_FAQ#How_do_I_create_a_small_wiki_farm.3F

If the old meta page is really supposed to be replaced by this mediawiki
version then shouldn't we just stick a redirect on it? Otherwise we have the
classic horror of duplicated data.

As it is, the information which I was looking for appears to be only on the
(supposedly replaced) meta page and not on the (supposedly better)
replacement page. I also made a minor correction to the old version because
the correction had nowhere else to go.





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Re: Understanding multi-language versions of wiki

Rob Church
On 13/05/06, Hugh Prior <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Why is the meta version of this page
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki_FAQ much better (i.e. much more
> comprehensive) than this page? For example, I was looking for ages for info
> on how to create a multi-lingual site, of course read this page, then via
> the forums got the answer from the Rob Church and Rotem Liss posts (13th May
> 2006) that I should check:
>
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki_FAQ#How_do_I_create_a_small_wiki_farm.3F
>
> If the old meta page is really supposed to be replaced by this mediawiki
> version then shouldn't we just stick a redirect on it? Otherwise we have the
> classic horror of duplicated data.

A lot of that page, however, is old, crap, out of date, badly written
or contains too many questions that AREN'T frequently asked.

The problem is a lack of time to move the stuff across; I was in the
process of slowly rewriting the FAQ using headings from the old one as
ideas on what should be covered, but ran out of time.


Rob Church
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Re: Understanding multi-language versions of wiki

Hugh Prior
OK, let's do this in a wiki way.  I have thrown a first draft into the wiki
world and will let wiki evolution take care of the rest:
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:FAQ2

Who needs time?! ;-)

"Rob Church" <[hidden email]> wrote in
message news:[hidden email]...
> A lot of that page, however, is old, crap, out of date, badly written
> or contains too many questions that AREN'T frequently asked.
>
> The problem is a lack of time to move the stuff across; I was in the
> process of slowly rewriting the FAQ using headings from the old one as
> ideas on what should be covered, but ran out of time.
>
>
> Rob Church



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Re: Understanding multi-language versions of wiki

admin Yellowikis
A multilingual version of MediaWiki is underdevelopment at the moment.

See: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Multilingual_MediaWiki

Still a few weeks away though.

PaulY



On 5/13/06, Hugh Prior <[hidden email]> wrote:

> OK, let's do this in a wiki way.  I have thrown a first draft into the wiki
> world and will let wiki evolution take care of the rest:
> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:FAQ2
>
> Who needs time?! ;-)
>
> "Rob Church" <[hidden email]> wrote in
> message news:[hidden email]...
> > A lot of that page, however, is old, crap, out of date, badly written
> > or contains too many questions that AREN'T frequently asked.
> >
> > The problem is a lack of time to move the stuff across; I was in the
> > process of slowly rewriting the FAQ using headings from the old one as
> > ideas on what should be covered, but ran out of time.
> >
> >
> > Rob Church
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> MediaWiki-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
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>


--
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Re: Understanding multi-language versions of wiki

Hugh Prior
Thanks for the link.  I would like to propose some important changes to the
new system before it is too late:



http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Multilingual_MediaWiki#Language_set_proposal





"admin Yellowikis" <[hidden email]>
wrote in message
news:[hidden email]...
>A multilingual version of MediaWiki is underdevelopment at the moment.
>
> See: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Multilingual_MediaWiki
>
> Still a few weeks away though.
>
> PaulY



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Re: Understanding multi-language versions of wiki

Hugh Prior
The proposal below has seemingly zero reaction.  Does this mean I AM too
late?

"Hugh Prior" <[hidden email]> wrote in
message news:e49lp8$ib4$[hidden email]...
> Thanks for the link.  I would like to propose some important changes to
> the new system before it is too late:
>
>
>
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Multilingual_MediaWiki#Language_set_proposal
>
>



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Re: Understanding multi-language versions of wiki

Erik Moeller-3
On 5/16/06, Hugh Prior <[hidden email]> wrote:
> The proposal below has seemingly zero reaction.  Does this mean I AM too
> late?

No. Development on this part of the specs has not yet begun, so we can
still choose a different approach.

I've read your comments. You make some valid points, though your
alternative also has some issues (maintenance of an additional page
per set of language versions, ease of editability, choice of an
arbitrary title for the Lang: page, etc.). It also has some advantages
which you did not name: single history of all language link
transactions, ease of bot updates.

I think you're right about the problems of intuitively understanding
the linked list approach. I'll have to think a bit more about it,
especially the UI issues of editing two pages, but I tend to side with
your proposal. I'll talk it over with Dominic (the contracted
developer of MLMW) later today, and post something on Meta soon.

Erik
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