Vector extension naming

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Vector extension naming

Trevor Parscal-2
  Conversation has been taking place on CodeReview about whether people
(developer and system administrators) will find it confusing that
there's code in both "extensions/Vector" and "skins/vector" that are
related but not the same thing.

I personally find it simple to understand and don't expect most
developers and system administrators to feel otherwise, but in the
interest of upholding the community-driven decision making process that
has made MediaWiki what it is, I wanted to bring a little extra
attention to the matter so we can make a decision and move on with our
lives.

I'm interested in views on whether the Vector extension should be named
something else or remain as it is. If your view is that it should be
renamed, suggestions for what it should be named would be useful.

Apologies in advance for the sheer triviality of this matter;
unfortunately these kinds of bike shed problems [2] tend to be
infinitely exciting, while complex matters are more often met with
general disinterest.

- Trevor

[1] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/73030#c10054
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkinson%27s_Law_of_Triviality

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Re: Vector extension naming

Chad
On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 8:35 PM, Trevor Parscal <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I personally find it simple to understand and don't expect most
> developers and system administrators to feel otherwise,

People are still confused with Wikimedia/MediaWiki to this day.
You think skins/vector and extensions/Vector won't confuse
people?

> I'm interested in views on whether the Vector extension should be named
> something else or remain as it is. If your view is that it should be
> renamed, suggestions for what it should be named would be useful.
>

I think it should be merged into core. Full stop.

-Chad

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Re: Vector extension naming

Alex Zaddach
In reply to this post by Trevor Parscal-2
On 10/12/2010 8:35 PM, Trevor Parscal wrote:

>   Conversation has been taking place on CodeReview about whether people
> (developer and system administrators) will find it confusing that
> there's code in both "extensions/Vector" and "skins/vector" that are
> related but not the same thing.
>
> I personally find it simple to understand and don't expect most
> developers and system administrators to feel otherwise, but in the
> interest of upholding the community-driven decision making process that
> has made MediaWiki what it is, I wanted to bring a little extra
> attention to the matter so we can make a decision and move on with our
> lives.
>
> I'm interested in views on whether the Vector extension should be named
> something else or remain as it is. If your view is that it should be
> renamed, suggestions for what it should be named would be useful.
>
> Apologies in advance for the sheer triviality of this matter;
> unfortunately these kinds of bike shed problems [2] tend to be
> infinitely exciting, while complex matters are more often met with
> general disinterest.

I think its a bit disingenuous to say that the only issue is the naming
of the Vector extension. My opposition is to splitting the
UsabilityInitiative into separate extensions for what will very likely
be only a *single release*. And as Chad noted, there's also the question
of whether they should even continue to be an extension. Or to put it
another way, should we intentionally hold off on adding the usability
stuff to core until the next release because we're already adding
ResourceLoader in 1.17? That's hardly a bike shed problem.

--
Alex (wikipedia:en:User:Mr.Z-man)

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Re: Vector extension naming

Trevor Parscal-2
  On 10/12/10 6:10 PM, Alex wrote:

> On 10/12/2010 8:35 PM, Trevor Parscal wrote:
>>    Conversation has been taking place on CodeReview about whether people
>> (developer and system administrators) will find it confusing that
>> there's code in both "extensions/Vector" and "skins/vector" that are
>> related but not the same thing.
>>
>> I personally find it simple to understand and don't expect most
>> developers and system administrators to feel otherwise, but in the
>> interest of upholding the community-driven decision making process that
>> has made MediaWiki what it is, I wanted to bring a little extra
>> attention to the matter so we can make a decision and move on with our
>> lives.
>>
>> I'm interested in views on whether the Vector extension should be named
>> something else or remain as it is. If your view is that it should be
>> renamed, suggestions for what it should be named would be useful.
>>
>> Apologies in advance for the sheer triviality of this matter;
>> unfortunately these kinds of bike shed problems [2] tend to be
>> infinitely exciting, while complex matters are more often met with
>> general disinterest.
> I think its a bit disingenuous to say that the only issue is the naming
> of the Vector extension. My opposition is to splitting the
> UsabilityInitiative into separate extensions for what will very likely
> be only a *single release*. And as Chad noted, there's also the question
> of whether they should even continue to be an extension. Or to put it
> another way, should we intentionally hold off on adding the usability
> stuff to core until the next release because we're already adding
> ResourceLoader in 1.17? That's hardly a bike shed problem.
>
Nor is it the problem I am referring to as a bike shed problem.

- Trevor

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Re: Vector extension naming

Alex Zaddach
On 10/12/2010 9:58 PM, Trevor Parscal wrote:

>   On 10/12/10 6:10 PM, Alex wrote:
>> On 10/12/2010 8:35 PM, Trevor Parscal wrote:
>>>    Conversation has been taking place on CodeReview about whether people
>>> (developer and system administrators) will find it confusing that
>>> there's code in both "extensions/Vector" and "skins/vector" that are
>>> related but not the same thing.
>>>
>>> I personally find it simple to understand and don't expect most
>>> developers and system administrators to feel otherwise, but in the
>>> interest of upholding the community-driven decision making process that
>>> has made MediaWiki what it is, I wanted to bring a little extra
>>> attention to the matter so we can make a decision and move on with our
>>> lives.
>>>
>>> I'm interested in views on whether the Vector extension should be named
>>> something else or remain as it is. If your view is that it should be
>>> renamed, suggestions for what it should be named would be useful.
>>>
>>> Apologies in advance for the sheer triviality of this matter;
>>> unfortunately these kinds of bike shed problems [2] tend to be
>>> infinitely exciting, while complex matters are more often met with
>>> general disinterest.
>> I think its a bit disingenuous to say that the only issue is the naming
>> of the Vector extension. My opposition is to splitting the
>> UsabilityInitiative into separate extensions for what will very likely
>> be only a *single release*. And as Chad noted, there's also the question
>> of whether they should even continue to be an extension. Or to put it
>> another way, should we intentionally hold off on adding the usability
>> stuff to core until the next release because we're already adding
>> ResourceLoader in 1.17? That's hardly a bike shed problem.
>>
> Nor is it the problem I am referring to as a bike shed problem.
>

Correct, that's the problem you didn't even mention.

--
Alex (wikipedia:en:User:Mr.Z-man)

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Re: Vector extension naming

MZMcBride-2
In reply to this post by Trevor Parscal-2
Trevor Parscal wrote:
> Apologies in advance for the sheer triviality of this matter;
> unfortunately these kinds of bike shed problems [2] tend to be
> infinitely exciting, while complex matters are more often met with
> general disinterest.
>
> [1] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/73030#c10054
> [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkinson%27s_Law_of_Triviality

Naming and naming conventions aren't trivialities.

The issue here is not a color of the bike shed problem. The issue is that
almost everyone who has commented is in favor of getting rid of the bike
shed and putting the bikes in the garage. The opposition to putting this
extension (these extensions) in core seems to be largely focused on a lack
of written process for when and when not to merge extensions into core.

MZMcBride



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Re: Vector extension naming

Trevor Parscal-2
  On 10/12/10 7:42 PM, MZMcBride wrote:

> Trevor Parscal wrote:
>> Apologies in advance for the sheer triviality of this matter;
>> unfortunately these kinds of bike shed problems [2] tend to be
>> infinitely exciting, while complex matters are more often met with
>> general disinterest.
>>
>> [1] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/73030#c10054
>> [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkinson%27s_Law_of_Triviality
> Naming and naming conventions aren't trivialities.
>
Show me the convention for naming extensions and I will follow it. As
long as there is none, spending time going back and forth discussing the
name of something that users will never see is indeed spending time on a
trivial matter.
> The issue here is not a color of the bike shed problem. The issue is that
> almost everyone who has commented is in favor of getting rid of the bike
> shed and putting the bikes in the garage. The opposition to putting this
> extension (these extensions) in core seems to be largely focused on a lack
> of written process for when and when not to merge extensions into core.
>
That's an entirely different discussion, and the results of that
discussion have so far been that any such action is being deferred until
after 1.17.
> MZMcBride
>
>
>
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Re: Vector extension naming

Chad
On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 10:45 PM, Trevor Parscal <[hidden email]> wrote:

>  On 10/12/10 7:42 PM, MZMcBride wrote:
>> Trevor Parscal wrote:
>>> Apologies in advance for the sheer triviality of this matter;
>>> unfortunately these kinds of bike shed problems [2] tend to be
>>> infinitely exciting, while complex matters are more often met with
>>> general disinterest.
>>>
>>> [1] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/73030#c10054
>>> [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkinson%27s_Law_of_Triviality
>> Naming and naming conventions aren't trivialities.
>>
> Show me the convention for naming extensions and I will follow it. As
> long as there is none, spending time going back and forth discussing the
> name of something that users will never see is indeed spending time on a
> trivial matter.

There isn't one. Maybe it's because we haven't cared until now, or
maybe because we haven't needed it. Policy or not, concerns were
raised about the naming of *this* extension. Saying "well there's
no policy so it's pointless to discuss it" is a cop-out.

-Chad

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Re: Vector extension naming

Trevor Parscal-2
  On 10/12/10 8:03 PM, Chad wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 10:45 PM, Trevor Parscal<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>   On 10/12/10 7:42 PM, MZMcBride wrote:
>>> Trevor Parscal wrote:
>>>> Apologies in advance for the sheer triviality of this matter;
>>>> unfortunately these kinds of bike shed problems [2] tend to be
>>>> infinitely exciting, while complex matters are more often met with
>>>> general disinterest.
>>>>
>>>> [1] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/73030#c10054
>>>> [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkinson%27s_Law_of_Triviality
>>> Naming and naming conventions aren't trivialities.
>>>
>> Show me the convention for naming extensions and I will follow it. As
>> long as there is none, spending time going back and forth discussing the
>> name of something that users will never see is indeed spending time on a
>> trivial matter.
> There isn't one. Maybe it's because we haven't cared until now, or
> maybe because we haven't needed it. Policy or not, concerns were
> raised about the naming of *this* extension. Saying "well there's
> no policy so it's pointless to discuss it" is a cop-out.
>
I am explicitly requesting discussion about it so that I can take action
based on the desire of the community. What cop-out are you referring to?

The only response I've gotten so far is "merge into core", which is an
interesting response, but does not resolve the issue at hand, which is,
until we do so (assuming we do at some point after 1.17), what should
this extension be named?

I'm not defending the current name any more than stating it's my
preference. I'm not only open to naming it something else, but I'm
asking for input on what to name it.

Some people are being somewhat combatant or getting tangential in their
responses - fine, basically what I expect form this list - but I'm still
very interested in responses to do with my original question, "should we
rename it, and if so, what should we name it?".

- Trevor
> -Chad
>
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Re: Vector extension naming

Chad
On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 11:10 PM, Trevor Parscal <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I am explicitly requesting discussion about it so that I can take action
> based on the desire of the community. What cop-out are you referring to?
>

That would be this one:

> Show me the convention for naming extensions and I will follow it. As
> long as there is none, spending time going back and forth discussing the
> name of something that users will never see is indeed spending time on a
> trivial matter.

This is coming across as "no policy on naming, therefore naming does
not really matter."

> The only response I've gotten so far is "merge into core", which is an
> interesting response, but does not resolve the issue at hand, which is,
> until we do so (assuming we do at some point after 1.17), what should
> this extension be named?
>

Why does it have to wait until after 1.17, again?

> I'm not defending the current name any more than stating it's my
> preference. I'm not only open to naming it something else, but I'm
> asking for input on what to name it.
>

If it *has* to be its own extension and not a part of core of the
main UsabilityInitiative, my vote would be for something like
"VectorAddons" or similar.

-Chad

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Re: Vector extension naming

Ryan Lane-2
In reply to this post by Trevor Parscal-2
> The only response I've gotten so far is "merge into core", which is an
> interesting response, but does not resolve the issue at hand, which is,
> until we do so (assuming we do at some point after 1.17), what should
> this extension be named?
>
> I'm not defending the current name any more than stating it's my
> preference. I'm not only open to naming it something else, but I'm
> asking for input on what to name it.
>
> Some people are being somewhat combatant or getting tangential in their
> responses - fine, basically what I expect form this list - but I'm still
> very interested in responses to do with my original question, "should we
> rename it, and if so, what should we name it?".
>

Please, please, don't rename it again. Every time the name changes
things break. They break for us, they break for third parties using
SVN, and it breaks our ability to easily support the extensions when
people ask for help.

Leave the name alone, and merge it into core as soon as possible.

Respectfully,

Ryan Lane

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Re: Vector extension naming

Aaron Schulz
That's a simple, but compelling reason. It's just temporary :)

Ryan Lane-2 wrote
> The only response I've gotten so far is "merge into core", which is an
> interesting response, but does not resolve the issue at hand, which is,
> until we do so (assuming we do at some point after 1.17), what should
> this extension be named?
>
> I'm not defending the current name any more than stating it's my
> preference. I'm not only open to naming it something else, but I'm
> asking for input on what to name it.
>
> Some people are being somewhat combatant or getting tangential in their
> responses - fine, basically what I expect form this list - but I'm still
> very interested in responses to do with my original question, "should we
> rename it, and if so, what should we name it?".
>

Please, please, don't rename it again. Every time the name changes
things break. They break for us, they break for third parties using
SVN, and it breaks our ability to easily support the extensions when
people ask for help.

Leave the name alone, and merge it into core as soon as possible.

Respectfully,

Ryan Lane

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Re: Vector extension naming

Trevor Parscal-2
In reply to this post by Ryan Lane-2


On 10/12/10 10:29 PM, Ryan Lane wrote:

>> The only response I've gotten so far is "merge into core", which is an
>> interesting response, but does not resolve the issue at hand, which is,
>> until we do so (assuming we do at some point after 1.17), what should
>> this extension be named?
>>
>> I'm not defending the current name any more than stating it's my
>> preference. I'm not only open to naming it something else, but I'm
>> asking for input on what to name it.
>>
>> Some people are being somewhat combatant or getting tangential in their
>> responses - fine, basically what I expect form this list - but I'm still
>> very interested in responses to do with my original question, "should we
>> rename it, and if so, what should we name it?".
>>
> Please, please, don't rename it again. Every time the name changes
> things break. They break for us, they break for third parties using
> SVN, and it breaks our ability to easily support the extensions when
> people ask for help.
>
> Leave the name alone, and merge it into core as soon as possible.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Ryan Lane
>
+1... sounds very reasonable to me.
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Re: Vector extension naming

Maciej Jaros
In reply to this post by Trevor Parscal-2
  At 2010-10-13 05:10, Trevor Parscal wrote:

>    On 10/12/10 8:03 PM, Chad wrote:
>> On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 10:45 PM, Trevor Parscal<[hidden email]>   wrote:
>>>    On 10/12/10 7:42 PM, MZMcBride wrote:
>>>> Trevor Parscal wrote:
>>>>> Apologies in advance for the sheer triviality of this matter;
>>>>> unfortunately these kinds of bike shed problems [2] tend to be
>>>>> infinitely exciting, while complex matters are more often met with
>>>>> general disinterest.
>>>>>
>>>>> [1] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Code/MediaWiki/73030#c10054
>>>>> [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkinson%27s_Law_of_Triviality
>>>> Naming and naming conventions aren't trivialities.
>>>>
>>> Show me the convention for naming extensions and I will follow it. As
>>> long as there is none, spending time going back and forth discussing the
>>> name of something that users will never see is indeed spending time on a
>>> trivial matter.
>> There isn't one. Maybe it's because we haven't cared until now, or
>> maybe because we haven't needed it. Policy or not, concerns were
>> raised about the naming of *this* extension. Saying "well there's
>> no policy so it's pointless to discuss it" is a cop-out.
>>
> I am explicitly requesting discussion about it so that I can take action
> based on the desire of the community. What cop-out are you referring to?
>
> The only response I've gotten so far is "merge into core", which is an
> interesting response, but does not resolve the issue at hand, which is,
> until we do so (assuming we do at some point after 1.17), what should
> this extension be named?
>
> I'm not defending the current name any more than stating it's my
> preference. I'm not only open to naming it something else, but I'm
> asking for input on what to name it.
>
> Some people are being somewhat combatant or getting tangential in their
> responses - fine, basically what I expect form this list - but I'm still
> very interested in responses to do with my original question, "should we
> rename it, and if so, what should we name it?".

IF it should be renamed then I think it has to follow two rules:
1. Should be unique (should not collide with other people ideas)
2. Should tell you a bit about the extension.

In this case "Vector" is wrong. "Vector" might be an extension for SVG
editing or something like that. To my understanding this extension is
about usability of Vector skin and so it might be called VectorUsability
or something more exact.

Having said that I also think Ryan Lane made a very valid point.
Personally I'm still using the extension as part of "Usability
Initiative" and if it is to be integrated into the core I'm not moving
anywhere from that ;-).

Regards,
Nux.

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Re: Vector extension naming

MZMcBride-2
In reply to this post by Trevor Parscal-2
Trevor Parscal wrote:

> On 10/12/10 10:29 PM, Ryan Lane wrote:
>>> The only response I've gotten so far is "merge into core", which is an
>>> interesting response, but does not resolve the issue at hand, which is,
>>> until we do so (assuming we do at some point after 1.17), what should
>>> this extension be named?
>>>
>>> I'm not defending the current name any more than stating it's my
>>> preference. I'm not only open to naming it something else, but I'm
>>> asking for input on what to name it.
>>>
>>> Some people are being somewhat combatant or getting tangential in their
>>> responses - fine, basically what I expect form this list - but I'm still
>>> very interested in responses to do with my original question, "should we
>>> rename it, and if so, what should we name it?".
>>>
>> Please, please, don't rename it again. Every time the name changes
>> things break. They break for us, they break for third parties using
>> SVN, and it breaks our ability to easily support the extensions when
>> people ask for help.
>>
>> Leave the name alone, and merge it into core as soon as possible.
>>
> +1... sounds very reasonable to me.

I contribute to MediaWiki development mostly through the #mediawiki IRC
channel, answering simple questions that users have when they're trying to
install or use MediaWiki. Being the most popular MediaWiki installation in
the world, people often want to emulate features that they see on Wikipedia.

My frustration from this thread (and from the code review comments) is that
you're creating a mess. And you're doing it for the second time.

There was already a skin named "Vector" and a sub-extension named
"UsabilityInitiative/Vector". This caused a lot of confusion for a lot of
people. It caused confusion when users asked questions and it caused
confusion when their questions were answered.

You've now introduced a third concept, a separate extension, called
"Vector". Instead of saying "just install MediaWiki and you'll have the
basic tools you need," we now have to say "well, MediaWiki comes with the
Vector skin, but there's also 'UsabilityInitiative/Vector' and 'Vector' (the
extension just called 'Vector') that you may or may not need to install
based on the version of MediaWiki you're running."

You don't answer these questions (or any support questions). That's fine,
nobody's asking you to. But I do. And in my mind, you're needlessly adding a
lot of confusion to what's already not the simplest installation process in
the world. And even worse in my mind, you're making the _exact same mistake_
that you've already made. So when you've moved on to other projects, I'll
still be trying to explain to new MediaWiki users what the difference is
between all of these different concepts called "Vector".

It's bad enough to create a giant mess that everyone else is forced to live
with, but please don't waste people's time with discussion for the sake of
saying you had a discussion. From your responses to this mailing list
thread, it's pretty clear that come hell or high water, you're not going to
revert yourself. In the time you've spent discussing this, you could have
_easily_ merged this into core and moved on.

I realize you don't respect me and my opinions, but what's absolutely
mind-boggling is that plenty of people who you should respect have said the
exact same thing as me, and you're still turning a deaf ear. I think your
views and actions here are a showcase of the general current Wikimedia
Foundation staff approach and attitude toward the community. I don't see how
this approach and attitude is in any way acceptable, but I do see how, if it
continues, it will ultimately kill the community behind these
community-driven projects.

MZMcBride



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Re: Vector extension naming

Andrew Garrett-4
In reply to this post by Ryan Lane-2
My take:
1. Vector is a terrible name for the extension, because it overloads
terminology. Now when somebody asks about Vector, we won't know if
they're talking about the skin or the extra features. The number one
thing that we engineers can do to make things simpler for users and
administrators is being consistent about having a one-to-one
correspondence between terminology and concepts/features. You can see
how much of a mess this makes with my own mistakes in LiquidThreads'
thread/post terminology confusion.
2. I agree with Ryan that yet another name change is a bad idea. It
broke all of my wikis when you separated the extension, and it will
break everything again if you rename it. Let's get it into core as
soon as possible.

--
Andrew Garrett
http://werdn.us/

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Re: Vector extension naming

Roan Kattouw-2
In reply to this post by Trevor Parscal-2
2010/10/13 Trevor Parscal <[hidden email]>:
> That's an entirely different discussion, and the results of that
> discussion have so far been that any such action is being deferred until
> after 1.17.
With pretty much every participant in this thread (including myself,
for the record) saying we should move these extensions into core ASAP
(which I interpret to mean before 1.17), I think that statement is
outdated at best. I realize you're hesitant to move Vector and
WikiEditor into core, let alone do so before the 1.17 release, but I
haven't seen anyone share that belief, and frankly I don't think any
new commenters will.

Let's just move Vector and WikiEditor into core soon and be done with it.

Roan Kattouw (Catrope)

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Re: Vector extension naming

Chad
In reply to this post by Ryan Lane-2
On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 1:29 AM, Ryan Lane <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Please, please, don't rename it again. Every time the name changes
> things break. They break for us, they break for third parties using
> SVN, and it breaks our ability to easily support the extensions when
> people ask for help.
>
> Leave the name alone, and merge it into core as soon as possible.
>

This. Renames are bad, period. Just look at the issues surrounding
trying to standardize extension include files as Foo/Foo.php for the
new installer[0]. That being said, I don't *think* we have a lot of people
using the Vector extension (WMF sites, Translatewiki?), so a rename
in this case shouldn't inconvenience a lot of people. If there is some
compelling reason to keep this as an extension, a rename *is* in
order, since Vector simply will not do.

I do see that Roan (just now) has replied to the thread indicating his
support for merging this stuff to core as well, so I wonder if it's all
a moot point now and the extension can go the way of the Dodo.

-Chad

[0] See r65238-40, other revs from siebrand around 17th-18th of
April this year

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Re: Vector extension naming

Maciej Jaros
In reply to this post by Roan Kattouw-2
  At 2010-10-13 09:12, Roan Kattouw wrote:

> 2010/10/13 Trevor Parscal<[hidden email]>:
>> That's an entirely different discussion, and the results of that
>> discussion have so far been that any such action is being deferred until
>> after 1.17.
> With pretty much every participant in this thread (including myself,
> for the record) saying we should move these extensions into core ASAP
> (which I interpret to mean before 1.17), I think that statement is
> outdated at best. I realize you're hesitant to move Vector and
> WikiEditor into core, let alone do so before the 1.17 release, but I
> haven't seen anyone share that belief, and frankly I don't think any
> new commenters will.
>
> Let's just move Vector and WikiEditor into core soon and be done with it.

WikiEditor is a different thing at current stage. It breaks WYSIWYG made
from FCKeditor and don't give anything important in exchange. Vector
extension is ready to work while WikiEditor still needs a lot of work if
you ask me.

Regards,
Nux.

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Re: Vector extension naming

Trevor Parscal-2
  Thank you, everyone, for responding so far (not trying to stop you
here). Here's where it seems we're at.

   1. Having an extension called "Vector" is neither descriptive or
      clear, and it is anticipated to cause confusion.
   2. System administrators are not enjoying things being switched
      around on them, and would prefer the name either not change or for
      the extension to be merged into core.
   3. 3 out of 5 code reviewers are voting that it should be merged into
      core (Brion and Tim have not weighed in yet).

My original hesitation to merge Vector (not to be lumped together with
WikiEditor) into core was always that we were going to be extremely lean
on CodeReview prior to 1.17 due to Tim Starling's limited availability
right now. Since then we've added Roan, Chad, and me, and even brought
Brion back for a bit part time to help out, thus increasing our capacity
beyond what was originally expected. I think under these new
circumstances, if we have Roan and Chad willing to help me integrate it
into core and sign off on it, it will likely be of very little
additional effort for our release manager (Tim Starling) to sign off as
well, thus alleviating my apprehension about merging it prior to 1.17.

So, unless there's any objection, I will go ahead and merge the Vector
extension into core as part of the Vector skin immediately, rather than
waiting until after 1.17.

- Trevor

On 10/13/10 12:38 AM, Maciej Jaros wrote:

>    At 2010-10-13 09:12, Roan Kattouw wrote:
>> 2010/10/13 Trevor Parscal<[hidden email]>:
>>> That's an entirely different discussion, and the results of that
>>> discussion have so far been that any such action is being deferred until
>>> after 1.17.
>> With pretty much every participant in this thread (including myself,
>> for the record) saying we should move these extensions into core ASAP
>> (which I interpret to mean before 1.17), I think that statement is
>> outdated at best. I realize you're hesitant to move Vector and
>> WikiEditor into core, let alone do so before the 1.17 release, but I
>> haven't seen anyone share that belief, and frankly I don't think any
>> new commenters will.
>>
>> Let's just move Vector and WikiEditor into core soon and be done with it.
> WikiEditor is a different thing at current stage. It breaks WYSIWYG made
> from FCKeditor and don't give anything important in exchange. Vector
> extension is ready to work while WikiEditor still needs a lot of work if
> you ask me.
>
> Regards,
> Nux.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
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