WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?

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Re: WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?

Geoffrey Plourde
Correct, I meant announcement not press release. Announcing this move by placing a blurb on the foundation site, asking for assistance on the sf list, and letting the signpost know all would have headed this discussion off




________________________________
From: geni <[hidden email]>
To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, September 5, 2009 4:43:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?

2009/9/6 Thomas Dalton <[hidden email]>:

> 2009/9/6 Geoffrey Plourde <[hidden email]>:
>> The plan may have been mentioned ages ago, but a press release about the move would have eliminated the opportunity for trolling.
>
> Why would the press be interested in the WMF putting the offices they
> are about to move out of on the market? The move itself will be
> newsworthy and I'm sure there will be a press release about it, but it
> hasn't happened yet. A plan to move isn't worthy of a press release -
> it would only cover a single sentence ("The WMF has more staff than it
> has room for desks, so it is planning to move to new, larger
> offices.").

I'm sure signpost would be interested. It usually is. Press release is
probably the wrong term though.



--
geni

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Re: WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?

Anthony-73
In reply to this post by Thomas Dalton
On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 7:55 PM, Thomas Dalton <[hidden email]>wrote:

> 2009/9/6 Anthony <[hidden email]>:
> > On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 7:27 PM, Thomas Dalton <[hidden email]
> >wrote:
> >
> >> A plan to move isn't worthy of a press release -
> >> it would only cover a single sentence ("The WMF has more staff than it
> >> has room for desks, so it is planning to move to new, larger
> >> offices.").
> >
> >
> > Is that all they have, a plan?  They're offering to sublet their place
> based
> > on nothing but a plan?  They've only got a month to move out, and they
> > haven't even found the place they're moving into yet?
>
> Of course not. They have begun implementing that plan. At no point
> during that implementation until they actually move is there anything
> particularly newsworthy.


I'd consider their signing of a lease on a new place to be "newsworthy".  By
the time they actually move I'd consider the move to be "old news".  And if
they haven't yet signed a lease on a new place, I'd be quite surprised.  In
fact, I'm not even sure if they've started to "actually move" yet.

The completion of the move is what isn't worthy of a press release.

Personally I don't care whether the WMF tells us about its move or not.  But
waiting until after the move is completed to announce it is strange.
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Re: WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?

Domas Mituzas
In reply to this post by Thomas Dalton
> The move itself will be
> newsworthy and I'm sure there will be a press release about it, but it
> hasn't happened yet.

As Wikimedia (or.. Wikipedia!) office address isn't publicly announced  
or published, the press release would be fantastic:

"Wikipedia is moving from undisclosed location office to new  
undisclosed location office" :)

Very useful.

Domas

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Re: WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?

Gerard Meijssen-3
In reply to this post by Geoffrey Plourde
Hoi,
Remember, the Signpost is an en.wp publication. It is not really the place
to announce such things.
Thanks,
       GerardM

2009/9/6 Geoffrey Plourde <[hidden email]>

> Correct, I meant announcement not press release. Announcing this move by
> placing a blurb on the foundation site, asking for assistance on the sf
> list, and letting the signpost know all would have headed this discussion
> off
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: geni <[hidden email]>
> To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Saturday, September 5, 2009 4:43:57 PM
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?
>
> 2009/9/6 Thomas Dalton <[hidden email]>:
> > 2009/9/6 Geoffrey Plourde <[hidden email]>:
> >> The plan may have been mentioned ages ago, but a press release about the
> move would have eliminated the opportunity for trolling.
> >
> > Why would the press be interested in the WMF putting the offices they
> > are about to move out of on the market? The move itself will be
> > newsworthy and I'm sure there will be a press release about it, but it
> > hasn't happened yet. A plan to move isn't worthy of a press release -
> > it would only cover a single sentence ("The WMF has more staff than it
> > has room for desks, so it is planning to move to new, larger
> > offices.").
>
> I'm sure signpost would be interested. It usually is. Press release is
> probably the wrong term though.
>
>
>
> --
> geni
>
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Re: WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?

Domas Mituzas
Gerard,

> Remember, the Signpost is an en.wp publication. It is not really the  
> place
> to announce such things.

it is up for Signpost editors if they want to include it or not. Not  
your business :)

BR,
Domas

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Re: WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?

Gerard Meijssen-3
Hoi,
It is not my business what they care to write about ... what I ment is that
it is not a publication that is read by all our projects. At that Wikizine
would be a better choice. :)
Thanks.
     GerardM

2009/9/6 Domas Mituzas <[hidden email]>

> Gerard,
>
> > Remember, the Signpost is an en.wp publication. It is not really the
> > place
> > to announce such things.
>
> it is up for Signpost editors if they want to include it or not. Not
> your business :)
>
> BR,
> Domas
>
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Re: WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?

geni
2009/9/6 Gerard Meijssen <[hidden email]>:
> Hoi,
> It is not my business what they care to write about ... what I ment is that
> it is not a publication that is read by all our projects. At that Wikizine
> would be a better choice. :)
> Thanks.
>     GerardM

The signpost has versions in 19 languages. I think that can be said to
provide a reasonable level of coverage.

--
geni

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Re: WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?

Gerard Meijssen-3
Hoi,
As there is no "signpost" in Dutch, it may be one reason why I did not
notice that there are links to other publications. I checked out the one in
German and it is not a translation of the en.wp Signpost. Consequently the
assertion that there are 19 versions is suspect and my point stands.
Thanks,
      GerardM

2009/9/6 geni <[hidden email]>

> 2009/9/6 Gerard Meijssen <[hidden email]>:
> > Hoi,
> > It is not my business what they care to write about ... what I ment is
> that
> > it is not a publication that is read by all our projects. At that
> Wikizine
> > would be a better choice. :)
> > Thanks.
> >     GerardM
>
> The signpost has versions in 19 languages. I think that can be said to
> provide a reasonable level of coverage.
>
> --
> geni
>
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Re: WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?

geni
2009/9/6 Gerard Meijssen <[hidden email]>:
> Hoi,
> As there is no "signpost" in Dutch, it may be one reason why I did not
> notice that there are links to other publications. I checked out the one in
> German and it is not a translation of the en.wp Signpost. Consequently the
> assertion that there are 19 versions is suspect and my point stands.
> Thanks,
>      GerardM

If you want to get seriously formal there are signpost or signpost
like publications in 19 languages on wikipedia which means that
informing them is likely to result in significantly wider information
distribution among the wikimedia than "wikizine".

--
geni

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Re: WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?

David Gerard-2
2009/9/6 geni <[hidden email]>:

> If you want to get seriously formal there are signpost or signpost
> like publications in 19 languages on wikipedia which means that
> informing them is likely to result in significantly wider information
> distribution among the wikimedia than "wikizine".


Wikizine does pretty well for readership (particularly as it's now posted here).

The various Signposts are no more affiliated than the various Wikipedias.


- d.

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Re: WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?

Anthony-73
In reply to this post by Domas Mituzas
> > The move itself will be
> > newsworthy and I'm sure there will be a press release about it, but it
> > hasn't happened yet.
>
> As Wikimedia (or.. Wikipedia!) office address isn't publicly announced
> or published, the press release would be fantastic:
>
> "Wikipedia is moving from undisclosed location office to new
> undisclosed location office" :)
>
> Very useful.
>
> Domas


I just have to say that I think it is utter and complete nonsense for anyone
to ever accuse the Wikimedia Foundation in any serious way of being the kind
of organization that tries to hush things up.
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Re: WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?

David Gerard-2
2009/9/6 Anthony <[hidden email]>:

> I just have to say that I think it is utter and complete nonsense for anyone
> to ever accuse the Wikimedia Foundation in any serious way of being the kind
> of organization that tries to hush things up.


Too many people attribute to malice what is completely explained by
fuckups. WMF actually does better than most charities of comparable
staffing and funding ...


- d.

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Re: WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?

Anthony-73
On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 8:06 AM, David Gerard <[hidden email]> wrote:

> 2009/9/6 Anthony <[hidden email]>:
>
> > I just have to say that I think it is utter and complete nonsense for
> anyone
> > to ever accuse the Wikimedia Foundation in any serious way of being the
> kind
> > of organization that tries to hush things up.
>
>
> Too many people attribute to malice what is completely explained by
> fuckups.


Perhaps you should rethink this analysis.  You might be attributing
accusations of the latter for accusations of the former.


> WMF actually does better than most charities of comparable
> staffing and funding ...


I've never bothered comparing with regard to funding.  Which organizations
would be comparable?  And which comes first, the funding or the competence?

As for staffing, that's part of the problem.
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Re: WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?

David Gerard-2
2009/9/6 Anthony <[hidden email]>:
> On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 8:06 AM, David Gerard <[hidden email]> wrote:

>> Too many people attribute to malice what is completely explained by
>> fuckups.

> Perhaps you should rethink this analysis.  You might be attributing
> accusations of the latter for accusations of the former.


I think it's pretty clear in the case of the start of this particular
idiot thread.


- d.

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Re: WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?

Effe iets anders
Ok, not replying to anyone in particular, but please, can we stop this
thread? If it has ever been useful, it has lost that little bit by now I
guess. Thank you.

-- eia

2009/9/6 David Gerard <[hidden email]>

> 2009/9/6 Anthony <[hidden email]>:
> > On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 8:06 AM, David Gerard <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> >> Too many people attribute to malice what is completely explained by
> >> fuckups.
>
> > Perhaps you should rethink this analysis.  You might be attributing
> > accusations of the latter for accusations of the former.
>
>
> I think it's pretty clear in the case of the start of this particular
> idiot thread.
>
>
> - d.
>
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Re: WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?

Geoffrey Plourde
In reply to this post by geni
Why not the Signposts, Wikizine, and the SF mailing list? No need for "exclusives".






________________________________
From: geni <[hidden email]>
To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2009 1:43:41 AM
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?

2009/9/6 Gerard Meijssen <[hidden email]>:
> Hoi,
> It is not my business what they care to write about ... what I ment is that
> it is not a publication that is read by all our projects. At that Wikizine
> would be a better choice. :)
> Thanks.
>     GerardM

The signpost has versions in 19 languages. I think that can be said to
provide a reasonable level of coverage.

--
geni

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Re: WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?

Bod Notbod
In reply to this post by David Gerard-2
On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 1:06 PM, David Gerard<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Too many people attribute to malice what is completely explained by
> fuckups. WMF actually does better than most charities of comparable
> staffing and funding ...

Yes, that's the way I view it too.

Most of these attacking threads could be answered with something like
"the WMF hasn't quite found its feet and hasn't yet come to terms with
the expectations of some members of the community as regards
transparency of its internal workings".

I wonder what motivates this kind of thread. Do those who regularly
seek to pick out any inconsistency or "failure" to communicate
actually /like/ Wikipedia, or do they have some grudge against the
whole enterprise?

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Re: WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?

David Gerard-2
2009/9/7 Bod Notbod <[hidden email]>:

> I wonder what motivates this kind of thread. Do those who regularly
> seek to pick out any inconsistency or "failure" to communicate
> actually /like/ Wikipedia, or do they have some grudge against the
> whole enterprise?


That would describe the person who started this thread, who has stated
elsewhere that anything whatsoever he does on any WMF site is only for
the purpose of trolling.


- d.

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Re: WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?

Bod Notbod
On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 2:42 PM, David Gerard<[hidden email]> wrote:

> That would describe the person who started this thread, who has stated
> elsewhere that anything whatsoever he does on any WMF site is only for
> the purpose of trolling.

Was that the form of words used?

I'd be interested to know the exact quote.

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Re: WMF seeking to sub-lease office space?

Sage Ross
In reply to this post by Domas Mituzas
On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 4:05 AM, Domas Mituzas<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Gerard,
>
>> Remember, the Signpost is an en.wp publication. It is not really the
>> place
>> to announce such things.
>
> it is up for Signpost editors if they want to include it or not. Not
> your business :)
>
> BR,

I guess I shouldn't have stopped reading this thread so early on.

I wrote "News and notes" this week but I didn't end up mentioning the
sub-lease/move in this week's Signpost because it just didn't seem
very important. But I do consider it part of the Signpost's mission to
report on Foundation matters, and more than that, to help push for WMF
transparency and accountability to the community.

I don't like the idea that what the Signpost does is "our" business
and not "your" business, for various intracommunity values of us and
you.  Despite being based on en.wp, we're trying to become more useful
to the broader Wikimedia community/communities.  (To that end,
OhanaUnited is reviving the Sister Project Interviews series:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:OhanaUnited/Sister_Projects_Interview
.  And both news reports from other projects and reflective pieces
about what it's like to work on individual non-English projects versus
their English counterparts are very welcome.)

The "we" of the Signpost is anyone from the Wikimedia community who
wants to contribute.

-Sage

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