WMF veto on geonotices?

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WMF veto on geonotices?

Fae-6
Hi,

Philipe (WMF head of reader relations) recently reverted a :en
geonotice added by Deryck Chan. This appears to run counter to the
previous position held by the WMF that they leave the decisions to the
Wikipedia community and would not interfere (presumably unless there
was a legal issue).

Raising on this email list in consideration of previous debate on this
topic when the chapter wanted to use a geonotice to encourage
applications from our Wikimedia UK community for the WMUK CEO position
and as most people will not follow WP:GN.

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Geonotice#WMF_veto_of_geonotices

Cheers,
Fae
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Re: WMF veto on geonotices?

Deryck Chan
Hi,

I was surprised when Fæ named me as the person who got reverted. Turns out it isn't me. The whole sequence of events should be summarised thus:

  1. Pharos added the original WLL (Wikipedia Loves Libraries) notice on 15 August http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Geonotice.js&diff=prev&oldid=444994376
  2. Jalexander reverted on 16 August, citing a comment by Philippe. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki%3AGeonotice.js&action=historysubmit&diff=445104210&oldid=444994376
  3. Pharos reverted again on the same day. The geonotice stayed. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Geonotice.js&diff=next&oldid=445104210
  4. Aude updated the WLL notice on 6 September. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Geonotice.js&diff=prev&oldid=448767021
  5. Philippe took down all WLL geonotices today. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki%3AGeonotice.js&action=historysubmit&diff=454347327&oldid=454207279
No UK geonotices were involved in this incident. However, since the UK community is a major user of en.wp geonotices, I do recommend that we participate in the discussion Fæ initiated on the talk-page.

Deryck

On 7 October 2011 09:13, Fae <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

Philipe (WMF head of reader relations) recently reverted a :en
geonotice added by Deryck Chan. This appears to run counter to the
previous position held by the WMF that they leave the decisions to the
Wikipedia community and would not interfere (presumably unless there
was a legal issue).

Raising on this email list in consideration of previous debate on this
topic when the chapter wanted to use a geonotice to encourage
applications from our Wikimedia UK community for the WMUK CEO position
and as most people will not follow WP:GN.

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Geonotice#WMF_veto_of_geonotices

Cheers,
Fae
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Guide to email tags: http://j.mp/faetags

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Re: WMF veto on geonotices?

HJ Mitchell
If I'm reading Philippe's edit summary right, he seems to be reverting because WLL is apparently covered by a centralnotice, and so it doesn't need a geonotice as well. If that's the case, then WMF or not, it's just housekeeping.

Harry


From: Deryck Chan <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Friday, 7 October 2011, 11:23
Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] WMF veto on geonotices?

Hi,

I was surprised when Fæ named me as the person who got reverted. Turns out it isn't me. The whole sequence of events should be summarised thus:

  1. Pharos added the original WLL (Wikipedia Loves Libraries) notice on 15 August http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Geonotice.js&diff=prev&oldid=444994376
  2. Jalexander reverted on 16 August, citing a comment by Philippe. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki%3AGeonotice.js&action=historysubmit&diff=445104210&oldid=444994376
  3. Pharos reverted again on the same day. The geonotice stayed. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Geonotice.js&diff=next&oldid=445104210
  4. Aude updated the WLL notice on 6 September. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Geonotice.js&diff=prev&oldid=448767021
  5. Philippe took down all WLL geonotices today. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki%3AGeonotice.js&action=historysubmit&diff=454347327&oldid=454207279
No UK geonotices were involved in this incident. However, since the UK community is a major user of en.wp geonotices, I do recommend that we participate in the discussion Fæ initiated on the talk-page.

Deryck

On 7 October 2011 09:13, Fae <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

Philipe (WMF head of reader relations) recently reverted a :en
geonotice added by Deryck Chan. This appears to run counter to the
previous position held by the WMF that they leave the decisions to the
Wikipedia community and would not interfere (presumably unless there
was a legal issue).

Raising on this email list in consideration of previous debate on this
topic when the chapter wanted to use a geonotice to encourage
applications from our Wikimedia UK community for the WMUK CEO position
and as most people will not follow WP:GN.

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Geonotice#WMF_veto_of_geonotices

Cheers,
Fae
--
http://enwp.org/user_talk:fae
Guide to email tags: http://j.mp/faetags

_______________________________________________
Wikimedia UK mailing list
[hidden email]
http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org


_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
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WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org



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Re: WMF veto on geonotices?

Fae-6
When Philippe uses his WMF account, per his user page, he is acting
for the WMF in his staff role. If this was a mistake then fair enough
but it should be explained by Philippe not assumed by everyone else.

I am unclear about the WLL central notice. Is there a discussion
somewhere that explains why this notice about a regional GLAM activity
would be a central notice rather than a USA specific Wikipedia
geonotice?

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Philippe_(WMF)

Cheers,
Fae

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Re: WMF veto on geonotices?

Andrew Gray-3
On 7 October 2011 13:02, Fae <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I am unclear about the WLL central notice. Is there a discussion
> somewhere that explains why this notice about a regional GLAM activity
> would be a central notice rather than a USA specific Wikipedia
> geonotice?

The centralnotice was requested by the same person who set up the
geonotice, and I'm guessing it's intended to ensure non-WP projects
are notified (Commons and WS are likely "interested parties"). It's
still targeted to the US and Canada only, but now running on multiple
projects.

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/CentralNotice/Calendar

There's no explicit policy I can see regarding not duplicating notices
globally and locally, but it's something I've always understood to be
discouraged.

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Re: WMF veto on geonotices?

Chris Keating-2
In reply to this post by Fae-6
I don't see how there can possibly be a problem with a Foundation staff member removing geonotices on the grounds that they are duplicated by CentralNotice.

I also think CentralNotice is being over-used a bit. While there are circumstances where I could see the chapter making use of it (so long as it didn't conflict with the annual fundraiser) I definitely wouldn't be keen on us using geolocated centralnotices to advertise meetups, etc...

Regards,

Chris

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Re: WMF veto on geonotices?

HJ Mitchell
Personally, I couldn't care less which of the various notices I see, but I wouldn't want to see two notices about the same thing. 

I guess the CentralNotice has the advantage of being cross-project; we could always request a cross-project geonotice, but I'm sure the devs have more important things to do (like installing new software that breaks everything...).

Harry 


From: Chris Keating <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Friday, 7 October 2011, 19:52
Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] WMF veto on geonotices?

I don't see how there can possibly be a problem with a Foundation staff member removing geonotices on the grounds that they are duplicated by CentralNotice.

I also think CentralNotice is being over-used a bit. While there are circumstances where I could see the chapter making use of it (so long as it didn't conflict with the annual fundraiser) I definitely wouldn't be keen on us using geolocated centralnotices to advertise meetups, etc...

Regards,

Chris

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Re: WMF veto on geonotices?

Fae-6
I think the original point is being diluted by repeated 'meh' opinions.

The issue here is that the WMF claimed no responsibility for the
lobbying notice raised on it.wiki and when I asked for clarification
were clear that they left these notices for the community. This
contradicts the actions of Philippe using his staff account to make
changes as he sees fit rather than taking the option of advising the
community. If WMF staff are taking responsibility for making
corrections or housekeeping for notices based on a WMF undeclared
policy (such as not having similar CN and GN running in parallel) then
they can no longer claim to have no responsibility when notices create
adverse publicity or are used for community approved lobbying for the
open movement.

Cheers,
Fae
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