Wellcome Trust CC-BY images

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Wellcome Trust CC-BY images

Ed Summers
I imagine some of you may have seen that the Wellcome Library announced yesterday [1]  that they have made over 100,000 high resolution images of manuscripts, paintings, etchings, early photography, and advertisements available using a CC-BY license. I was wondering [2] if it is ok to upload CC-BY images to the Commons.

This is mostly in theory since the downloads are sitting behind reCAPTCHAs and several levels of click throughs — but you never know :-)

//Ed

[1] http://blog.wellcomelibrary.org/2014/01/thousands-of-years-of-visual-culture-made-free-through-wellcome-images/
[2] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Village_pump/Copyright#Can_I_upload_CC-BY_images.3F




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Re: Wellcome Trust CC-BY images

Gerard Meijssen-3
Hoi,
Would it not make more sense to talk to the Welcome Trust ?
Thanks,
     Gerard


On 21 January 2014 12:25, Edward Summers <[hidden email]> wrote:
I imagine some of you may have seen that the Wellcome Library announced yesterday [1]  that they have made over 100,000 high resolution images of manuscripts, paintings, etchings, early photography, and advertisements available using a CC-BY license. I was wondering [2] if it is ok to upload CC-BY images to the Commons.

This is mostly in theory since the downloads are sitting behind reCAPTCHAs and several levels of click throughs — but you never know :-)

//Ed

[1] http://blog.wellcomelibrary.org/2014/01/thousands-of-years-of-visual-culture-made-free-through-wellcome-images/
[2] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Village_pump/Copyright#Can_I_upload_CC-BY_images.3F




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Re: Wellcome Trust CC-BY images

David Gerard-2
In reply to this post by Ed Summers
Yes, probably the very first thing would be to ask Wellcome if they
can help us with the batch upload, with good metadata, etc. Fae
commented on the Commons thread and would be good to get you going.

On 21 January 2014 11:25, Edward Summers <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I imagine some of you may have seen that the Wellcome Library announced yesterday [1]  that they have made over 100,000 high resolution images of manuscripts, paintings, etchings, early photography, and advertisements available using a CC-BY license. I was wondering [2] if it is ok to upload CC-BY images to the Commons.
>
> This is mostly in theory since the downloads are sitting behind reCAPTCHAs and several levels of click throughs — but you never know :-)
>
> //Ed
>
> [1] http://blog.wellcomelibrary.org/2014/01/thousands-of-years-of-visual-culture-made-free-through-wellcome-images/
> [2] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Village_pump/Copyright#Can_I_upload_CC-BY_images.3F
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Commons-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/commons-l

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Re: Wellcome Trust CC-BY images

Ed Summers
In reply to this post by Gerard Meijssen-3
if it came to downloading them yes. But I was asking the more basic question of whether CC-BY images are OK to upload to the Wikimedia Commons, which isn’t really a question for Wellcome, right?  I’ve since been pointed at:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Image_copyright_tags/Free_licenses

which seems to indicate they are OK. If you like I could try to get in touch with someone at Wellcome to see if they could make them easier to upload.

//Ed

On Jan 21, 2014, at 6:29 AM, Gerard Meijssen <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hoi,
> Would it not make more sense to talk to the Welcome Trust ?
> Thanks,
>      Gerard
>
>
> On 21 January 2014 12:25, Edward Summers <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I imagine some of you may have seen that the Wellcome Library announced yesterday [1]  that they have made over 100,000 high resolution images of manuscripts, paintings, etchings, early photography, and advertisements available using a CC-BY license. I was wondering [2] if it is ok to upload CC-BY images to the Commons.
>
> This is mostly in theory since the downloads are sitting behind reCAPTCHAs and several levels of click throughs — but you never know :-)
>
> //Ed
>
> [1] http://blog.wellcomelibrary.org/2014/01/thousands-of-years-of-visual-culture-made-free-through-wellcome-images/
> [2] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Village_pump/Copyright#Can_I_upload_CC-BY_images.3F
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Commons-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/commons-l
>
> _______________________________________________
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Re: Wellcome Trust CC-BY images

Ed Summers
Frederico just pointed me (in IRC) to a vacancy announcement for a Wikipedian in Residence at the Wellcome Trust:

    https://cancer-research-uk-jobs.tal.net/vx/appcentre-External/brand-2/candidate/so/pm/1/pl/4/opp/482-Wikipedian-in-Residence/en-GB

So I guess if you are in the UK, looking for 6 months work, and interested in coordinating the upload a hundred thousand images to the commons that might be of interest. It’s certainly a strong indicator that they would be open to the idea.

//Ed

On Jan 21, 2014, at 6:38 AM, Edward Summers <[hidden email]> wrote:

> if it came to downloading them yes. But I was asking the more basic question of whether CC-BY images are OK to upload to the Wikimedia Commons, which isn’t really a question for Wellcome, right?  I’ve since been pointed at:
>
>    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Image_copyright_tags/Free_licenses
>
> which seems to indicate they are OK. If you like I could try to get in touch with someone at Wellcome to see if they could make them easier to upload.
>
> //Ed
>
> On Jan 21, 2014, at 6:29 AM, Gerard Meijssen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Hoi,
>> Would it not make more sense to talk to the Welcome Trust ?
>> Thanks,
>>     Gerard
>>
>>
>> On 21 January 2014 12:25, Edward Summers <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I imagine some of you may have seen that the Wellcome Library announced yesterday [1]  that they have made over 100,000 high resolution images of manuscripts, paintings, etchings, early photography, and advertisements available using a CC-BY license. I was wondering [2] if it is ok to upload CC-BY images to the Commons.
>>
>> This is mostly in theory since the downloads are sitting behind reCAPTCHAs and several levels of click throughs — but you never know :-)
>>
>> //Ed
>>
>> [1] http://blog.wellcomelibrary.org/2014/01/thousands-of-years-of-visual-culture-made-free-through-wellcome-images/
>> [2] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Village_pump/Copyright#Can_I_upload_CC-BY_images.3F
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Commons-l mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/commons-l
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/commons-l
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>
> _______________________________________________
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Re: Wellcome Trust CC-BY images

Hay (Husky)
What would be the problem with uploading CC-BY images to Commons? It's
compatible with CC-BY-SA, so i see no problems there...

-- Hay

On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 12:44 PM, Edward Summers <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Frederico just pointed me (in IRC) to a vacancy announcement for a Wikipedian in Residence at the Wellcome Trust:
>
>     https://cancer-research-uk-jobs.tal.net/vx/appcentre-External/brand-2/candidate/so/pm/1/pl/4/opp/482-Wikipedian-in-Residence/en-GB
>
> So I guess if you are in the UK, looking for 6 months work, and interested in coordinating the upload a hundred thousand images to the commons that might be of interest. It’s certainly a strong indicator that they would be open to the idea.
>
> //Ed
>
> On Jan 21, 2014, at 6:38 AM, Edward Summers <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> if it came to downloading them yes. But I was asking the more basic question of whether CC-BY images are OK to upload to the Wikimedia Commons, which isn’t really a question for Wellcome, right?  I’ve since been pointed at:
>>
>>    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Image_copyright_tags/Free_licenses
>>
>> which seems to indicate they are OK. If you like I could try to get in touch with someone at Wellcome to see if they could make them easier to upload.
>>
>> //Ed
>>
>> On Jan 21, 2014, at 6:29 AM, Gerard Meijssen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Hoi,
>>> Would it not make more sense to talk to the Welcome Trust ?
>>> Thanks,
>>>     Gerard
>>>
>>>
>>> On 21 January 2014 12:25, Edward Summers <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> I imagine some of you may have seen that the Wellcome Library announced yesterday [1]  that they have made over 100,000 high resolution images of manuscripts, paintings, etchings, early photography, and advertisements available using a CC-BY license. I was wondering [2] if it is ok to upload CC-BY images to the Commons.
>>>
>>> This is mostly in theory since the downloads are sitting behind reCAPTCHAs and several levels of click throughs — but you never know :-)
>>>
>>> //Ed
>>>
>>> [1] http://blog.wellcomelibrary.org/2014/01/thousands-of-years-of-visual-culture-made-free-through-wellcome-images/
>>> [2] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Village_pump/Copyright#Can_I_upload_CC-BY_images.3F
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Commons-l mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/commons-l
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Commons-l mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/commons-l
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Commons-l mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/commons-l
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Commons-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/commons-l

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Re: Wellcome Trust CC-BY images

Ed Summers
I didn’t say there was a problem, and am not an Intellectual Property expert so I thought I would ask :-) I will follow up with Wellcome asking if they can help, and will cc the list.

//Ed

On Jan 21, 2014, at 6:59 AM, Hay (Husky) <[hidden email]> wrote:

> What would be the problem with uploading CC-BY images to Commons? It's
> compatible with CC-BY-SA, so i see no problems there...
>
> -- Hay
>
> On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 12:44 PM, Edward Summers <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Frederico just pointed me (in IRC) to a vacancy announcement for a Wikipedian in Residence at the Wellcome Trust:
>>
>>    https://cancer-research-uk-jobs.tal.net/vx/appcentre-External/brand-2/candidate/so/pm/1/pl/4/opp/482-Wikipedian-in-Residence/en-GB
>>
>> So I guess if you are in the UK, looking for 6 months work, and interested in coordinating the upload a hundred thousand images to the commons that might be of interest. It’s certainly a strong indicator that they would be open to the idea.
>>
>> //Ed
>>
>> On Jan 21, 2014, at 6:38 AM, Edward Summers <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> if it came to downloading them yes. But I was asking the more basic question of whether CC-BY images are OK to upload to the Wikimedia Commons, which isn’t really a question for Wellcome, right?  I’ve since been pointed at:
>>>
>>>   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Image_copyright_tags/Free_licenses
>>>
>>> which seems to indicate they are OK. If you like I could try to get in touch with someone at Wellcome to see if they could make them easier to upload.
>>>
>>> //Ed
>>>
>>> On Jan 21, 2014, at 6:29 AM, Gerard Meijssen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hoi,
>>>> Would it not make more sense to talk to the Welcome Trust ?
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>    Gerard
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 21 January 2014 12:25, Edward Summers <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> I imagine some of you may have seen that the Wellcome Library announced yesterday [1]  that they have made over 100,000 high resolution images of manuscripts, paintings, etchings, early photography, and advertisements available using a CC-BY license. I was wondering [2] if it is ok to upload CC-BY images to the Commons.
>>>>
>>>> This is mostly in theory since the downloads are sitting behind reCAPTCHAs and several levels of click throughs — but you never know :-)
>>>>
>>>> //Ed
>>>>
>>>> [1] http://blog.wellcomelibrary.org/2014/01/thousands-of-years-of-visual-culture-made-free-through-wellcome-images/
>>>> [2] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Village_pump/Copyright#Can_I_upload_CC-BY_images.3F
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Commons-l mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/commons-l
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Commons-l mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/commons-l
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Commons-l mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/commons-l
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Commons-l mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/commons-l
>
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> [hidden email]
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Re: Wellcome Trust CC-BY images

Hay (Husky)
Cool, nice work Edward!

If somebody is asked to do a mass upload to Wikicommons it might make
sense to use the GLAMwiki toolset:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:GLAMwiki_Toolset_Project

-- Hay

On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 1:06 PM, Edward Summers <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I didn’t say there was a problem, and am not an Intellectual Property expert so I thought I would ask :-) I will follow up with Wellcome asking if they can help, and will cc the list.
>
> //Ed
>
> On Jan 21, 2014, at 6:59 AM, Hay (Husky) <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> What would be the problem with uploading CC-BY images to Commons? It's
>> compatible with CC-BY-SA, so i see no problems there...
>>
>> -- Hay
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 12:44 PM, Edward Summers <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Frederico just pointed me (in IRC) to a vacancy announcement for a Wikipedian in Residence at the Wellcome Trust:
>>>
>>>    https://cancer-research-uk-jobs.tal.net/vx/appcentre-External/brand-2/candidate/so/pm/1/pl/4/opp/482-Wikipedian-in-Residence/en-GB
>>>
>>> So I guess if you are in the UK, looking for 6 months work, and interested in coordinating the upload a hundred thousand images to the commons that might be of interest. It’s certainly a strong indicator that they would be open to the idea.
>>>
>>> //Ed
>>>
>>> On Jan 21, 2014, at 6:38 AM, Edward Summers <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> if it came to downloading them yes. But I was asking the more basic question of whether CC-BY images are OK to upload to the Wikimedia Commons, which isn’t really a question for Wellcome, right?  I’ve since been pointed at:
>>>>
>>>>   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Image_copyright_tags/Free_licenses
>>>>
>>>> which seems to indicate they are OK. If you like I could try to get in touch with someone at Wellcome to see if they could make them easier to upload.
>>>>
>>>> //Ed
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 21, 2014, at 6:29 AM, Gerard Meijssen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hoi,
>>>>> Would it not make more sense to talk to the Welcome Trust ?
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>    Gerard
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 21 January 2014 12:25, Edward Summers <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>> I imagine some of you may have seen that the Wellcome Library announced yesterday [1]  that they have made over 100,000 high resolution images of manuscripts, paintings, etchings, early photography, and advertisements available using a CC-BY license. I was wondering [2] if it is ok to upload CC-BY images to the Commons.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is mostly in theory since the downloads are sitting behind reCAPTCHAs and several levels of click throughs — but you never know :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> //Ed
>>>>>
>>>>> [1] http://blog.wellcomelibrary.org/2014/01/thousands-of-years-of-visual-culture-made-free-through-wellcome-images/
>>>>> [2] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Village_pump/Copyright#Can_I_upload_CC-BY_images.3F
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Commons-l mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/commons-l
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Commons-l mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/commons-l
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Commons-l mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/commons-l
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Commons-l mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/commons-l
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/commons-l
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Re: [GLAM] Wellcome Trust CC-BY images

Ed Summers
In reply to this post by Ed Summers
I was thinking it would be AmazonTurk-able, but that’s neat there is a service for it. Around $140.00 wouldn’t be a terrible price to pay. Still, it would be nice to avoid it, and have Wellcome be a partner in the effort.

What is “our stance on copyright”?

//Ed

On Jan 21, 2014, at 8:24 AM, Christoph Braun <[hidden email]> wrote:

> There are plenty of services out there offering to solve captchas for reasonable prices. Here's one of them: http://www.deathbycaptcha.com/
> Then again I think it might be more useful to approach the Wellcome Library, both for getting easier access to their collection and informing them about our stance on copyright.
>
> Regards, Christoph
>
>
> 2014/1/21 Edward Summers <[hidden email]>
> I imagine some of you may have seen that the Wellcome Library announced yesterday [1]  that they have made over 100,000 high resolution images of manuscripts, paintings, etchings, early photography, and advertisements available using a CC-BY license. I was wondering [2] if it is ok to upload CC-BY images to the Commons.
>
> This is mostly in theory since the downloads are sitting behind reCAPTCHAs and several levels of click throughs — but you never know :-)
>
> //Ed
>
> [1] http://blog.wellcomelibrary.org/2014/01/thousands-of-years-of-visual-culture-made-free-through-wellcome-images/
> [2] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Village_pump/Copyright#Can_I_upload_CC-BY_images.3F
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GLAM mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/glam
>
> _______________________________________________
> GLAM mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/glam


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Re: [GLAM] Wellcome Trust CC-BY images

Magnus Manske-2
So, we have the following options:

1. Ignore them (pity)
2. Upload them as public domain and re-iterate the National Portrait Gallery issue, and teach them that these open content wiki people are not to be trusted
3. Label them CC-BY so the Wellcome Trust can get a mandatory attribution, which we would do anyway

Personally, I'd go for #3. CC-BY is just one small step up from PD, so I really don't see the practical harm.

(Disclaimer: I am paid by the Wellcome Trust, though indirectly via a research institute, and nowhere near the image division;-)

Cheers,
Magnus



On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 2:22 PM, Christoph Braun <[hidden email]> wrote:
Our stance on copyright is that digital reproductions of public domain 2D source material is in the public domain, even if your laughable jurisdiction says otherwise.



2014/1/21 Edward Summers <[hidden email]>
I was thinking it would be AmazonTurk-able, but that’s neat there is a service for it. Around $140.00 wouldn’t be a terrible price to pay. Still, it would be nice to avoid it, and have Wellcome be a partner in the effort.

What is “our stance on copyright”?

//Ed

On Jan 21, 2014, at 8:24 AM, Christoph Braun <[hidden email]> wrote:

> There are plenty of services out there offering to solve captchas for reasonable prices. Here's one of them: http://www.deathbycaptcha.com/
> Then again I think it might be more useful to approach the Wellcome Library, both for getting easier access to their collection and informing them about our stance on copyright.
>
> Regards, Christoph
>
>
> 2014/1/21 Edward Summers <[hidden email]>
> I imagine some of you may have seen that the Wellcome Library announced yesterday [1]  that they have made over 100,000 high resolution images of manuscripts, paintings, etchings, early photography, and advertisements available using a CC-BY license. I was wondering [2] if it is ok to upload CC-BY images to the Commons.
>
> This is mostly in theory since the downloads are sitting behind reCAPTCHAs and several levels of click throughs — but you never know :-)
>
> //Ed
>
> [1] http://blog.wellcomelibrary.org/2014/01/thousands-of-years-of-visual-culture-made-free-through-wellcome-images/
> [2] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Village_pump/Copyright#Can_I_upload_CC-BY_images.3F
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GLAM mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/glam
>
> _______________________________________________
> GLAM mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/glam


_______________________________________________
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--
undefined

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Re: [GLAM] Wellcome Trust CC-BY images

Ed Summers
On Jan 21, 2014, at 11:53 AM, Magnus Manske <[hidden email]> wrote:
> So, we have the following options:
>
> 1. Ignore them (pity)
> 2. Upload them as public domain and re-iterate the National Portrait Gallery issue, and teach them that these open content wiki people are not to be trusted
> 3. Label them CC-BY so the Wellcome Trust can get a mandatory attribution, which we would do anyway
>
> Personally, I'd go for #3. CC-BY is just one small step up from PD, so I really don't see the practical harm.

Agreed, #3 definitely seems like the best course of action to try first.

Magnus, I suspect you already saw that I emailed Wellcome’s image folks [1]. If you have any other contacts at Wellcome that could help out please let me know and I will email them directly.

//Ed
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Re: [GLAM] Wellcome Trust CC-BY images

Ed Summers
oops, I forgot:

[1] http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/commons-l/2014-January/007014.html

On Jan 21, 2014, at 12:12 PM, Edward Summers <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Jan 21, 2014, at 11:53 AM, Magnus Manske <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> So, we have the following options:
>>
>> 1. Ignore them (pity)
>> 2. Upload them as public domain and re-iterate the National Portrait Gallery issue, and teach them that these open content wiki people are not to be trusted
>> 3. Label them CC-BY so the Wellcome Trust can get a mandatory attribution, which we would do anyway
>>
>> Personally, I'd go for #3. CC-BY is just one small step up from PD, so I really don't see the practical harm.
>
> Agreed, #3 definitely seems like the best course of action to try first.
>
> Magnus, I suspect you already saw that I emailed Wellcome’s image folks [1]. If you have any other contacts at Wellcome that could help out please let me know and I will email them directly.
>
> //Ed


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Re: [GLAM] Wellcome Trust CC-BY images

Jean-Frédéric
In reply to this post by Magnus Manske-2
Hi,

1. Ignore them (pity)
2. Upload them as public domain and re-iterate the National Portrait Gallery issue, and teach them that these open content wiki people are not to be trusted
3. Label them CC-BY so the Wellcome Trust can get a mandatory attribution, which we would do anyway

Personally, I'd go for #3. CC-BY is just one small step up from PD, so I really don't see the practical harm.

This is not the first time the Commons community deals with such a situation ; I believe standard practice is to use {{Licensed-PD-Art}} [1] which states both #2 & #3.

See for example its use for {{PD-Art-Yale}} [2]

(“Wikimedia Commons: there’s a template for that.”)


Hope that helps,
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Re: [GLAM] Wellcome Trust CC-BY images

David Gerard-2
On 21 January 2014 17:20, Jean-Frédéric <[hidden email]> wrote:

>> 1. Ignore them (pity)
>> 2. Upload them as public domain and re-iterate the National Portrait
>> Gallery issue, and teach them that these open content wiki people are not to
>> be trusted
>> 3. Label them CC-BY so the Wellcome Trust can get a mandatory attribution,
>> which we would do anyway

> This is not the first time the Commons community deals with such a situation
> ; I believe standard practice is to use {{Licensed-PD-Art}} [1] which states
> both #2 & #3.
> See for example its use for {{PD-Art-Yale}} [2]
> (“Wikimedia Commons: there’s a template for that.”)


Excellent! I'm glad we can do that now :-) I recall there was
resistance to doing something like this before ...


- d.

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Re: [GLAM] Wellcome Trust CC-BY images

Magnus Manske-2
In reply to this post by Ed Summers
FWIW, I think {{Licensed-PD-Art}} with CC-BY for the digital image is perfectly acceptable here.

And yes, in many countries, these are PD, period. Where I'm coming from is this: The Wellcome Trust didn't have to release these images under a free license at all. They had them under a CC-NC one, and many of their current ones still are. Yet, they invested time, money, effort, and probably quite some infighting with legal etc. to get them under a free license. They /try/ to open up as fast as they can. Slapping them in the face by screaming MOAR is, irrespective of the legal situation, unlikely to help.

If this goes well for them, they'll probably release more images under free licenses. Maybe even switch to CC-0 for some.


On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 9:15 PM, Christoph Braun <[hidden email]> wrote:
Personally, I'd go for #3. CC-BY is just one small step up from PD, so I really don't see the practical harm. 
Wiki Commons is used for a lot of things. Copyfraud promotion should not be one of them.

I explicitly advise against using #3 for this collection or any other. Using #3 would imply that we a) didn't care about the public domain and b) didn't understand the idea behind CC licences. 
If we acknowledge such copyright claims, we also acknowledge the possibility of legal action in case of copyright violations (e.g. by violating the terms of the licence). 
Apart from this ideological thought, the actual legal enforceability of these copyright claims depends on your local jurisdiction.
Yet, I don't think the Wellcome Library released this collection with the intention of pursuing licence breaches.

It's not like we didn't encounter this issue before.

Regards, Christoph



2014/1/21 Edward Summers <[hidden email]>
oops, I forgot:

[1] http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/commons-l/2014-January/007014.html

On Jan 21, 2014, at 12:12 PM, Edward Summers <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Jan 21, 2014, at 11:53 AM, Magnus Manske <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> So, we have the following options:
>>
>> 1. Ignore them (pity)
>> 2. Upload them as public domain and re-iterate the National Portrait Gallery issue, and teach them that these open content wiki people are not to be trusted
>> 3. Label them CC-BY so the Wellcome Trust can get a mandatory attribution, which we would do anyway
>>
>> Personally, I'd go for #3. CC-BY is just one small step up from PD, so I really don't see the practical harm.
>
> Agreed, #3 definitely seems like the best course of action to try first.
>
> Magnus, I suspect you already saw that I emailed Wellcome’s image folks [1]. If you have any other contacts at Wellcome that could help out please let me know and I will email them directly.
>
> //Ed


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Re: [GLAM] Wellcome Trust CC-BY images

Jean-Frédéric



2014/1/22 Magnus Manske <[hidden email]>
FWIW, I think {{Licensed-PD-Art}} with CC-BY for the digital image is perfectly acceptable here.

Per Magnus & Christoph, I went ahead and created <https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:PD-Art-Wellcome_Trust>

Feel free to comment on-wiki.

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Re: [GLAM] Wellcome Trust CC-BY images

Mathias Schindler-2
In reply to this post by Magnus Manske-2
On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 5:53 PM, Magnus Manske
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> 1. Ignore them (pity)
> 2. Upload them as public domain and re-iterate the National Portrait Gallery
> issue, and teach them that these open content wiki people are not to be
> trusted
> 3. Label them CC-BY so the Wellcome Trust can get a mandatory attribution,
> which we would do anyway

4. upload them, indicating that Wellcome Trust has labeled them CC-by
and add - wherever appropriate - PD-old tags. In the long run, we have
to deal anyway with stuff that has been (legitimately) released under
cc-by but has later turned into pd-old.

Regarding 3: In most cases, people are willing to attribute the source
because of their editorial or community standards.

Mathias

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Re: [GLAM] Wellcome Trust CC-BY images

Ed Summers
In reply to this post by Magnus Manske-2
Good news. I received an email back from Catherine Draycott who is the Head of Wellcome Images. She said that they were very much interested in uploading Wellcome's CC-BY images to the Commons, and suggested we talk on the phone. I was going to suggest that we:

a) get the project described at [1]
b) coordinate work here on commons-l
c) talk to the GLAMToolset [2] folks who have been working with Europeana and other GLAM organizations to bulk upload images
d) think about how Wellcome's Wikipedia in Residence [3] could help facilitate the upload

Does that sound like a reasonable way to proceed? If anyone else would like to be on the call let me know. If there is a Commons veteran who has experience with bulk uploading and is willing to work with the Wellcome Trust in a constructive way I’m willing to just tag along on the call and let them take the reigns as it were.

//Ed

PS. Congratulations on the wedding Liam :-D

[1] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Batch_uploading
[2] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:GLAMToolset_project
[3] https://cancer-research-uk-jobs.tal.net/vx/appcentre-External/brand-2/candidate/so/pm/1/pl/4/opp/482-Wikipedian-in-Residence/en-GB

On Jan 21, 2014, at 6:43 PM, Liam Wyatt <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I see this was also announced on the WM-UK blog - http://blog.wikimedia.org.uk/2014/01/wellcome-images-freely-releases-100000-images/ 
> I've copied in Jonathan who is the WMUK GLAM coordinator in case he's had any involvement in Wellcome's announcement. Perhaps he can lend insight?
>
> I've worked on quite a few image-release negotiations and it is possible that this has been done this way through honest mistake, through justifed fears, through meddling of the legal/marketing departments....  I quite like Andy Mabbett's comment on Wellcome's blog announcement, sums up the problems (legal and technological) quite well in my opinion:
>
> "It’s great to have these images available, digitally, but why are you claiming copyright over, and to be the original source of, artworks and images from books which are already in the public domain? Why have you added a strapline underneath each image? And why is the precess of downloading high resolution versions of these public-domain works so tortuous, with a CAPTCHA, irrelevant terms & condition, and zipped files – why not make them available directly?" - (comment no.3) http://blog.wellcomelibrary.org/2014/01/thousands-of-years-of-visual-culture-made-free-through-wellcome-images/ 
> I also agree with Andy's response here - to chose option 2b - take the images that we can, label them as PD and *politely* explain (preferably in person) why we do not legally recognise their CC-BY claim even though we WILL make every effort to attribute properly. While we're at it, I would point Wellcome to the Europeana PD charter http://pro.europeana.eu/web/europeana-project/public-domain-charter-en 
>
> -Liam
>
>
> wittylama.com
> Peace, love & metadata
>
>
> On 22 January 2014 09:42, Andy Mabbett <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On 21 January 2014 16:53, Magnus Manske <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > So, we have the following options:
> >
> > 1. Ignore them (pity)
>
> Not going to happen; note work-in-progress, and discussion, at:
>
>    https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Batch_uploading/Wellcome_Images_CC-BY
>
> > 2. Upload them as public domain and re-iterate the National Portrait Gallery
> > issue, and teach them that these open content wiki people are not to be
> > trusted
>
> 2b politely explain to WT that their licence statement is in error,
> and why, and that even if people in the UK abide by it, it is
> unenforceable internationally.
>
> > 3. Label them CC-BY so the Wellcome Trust can get a mandatory attribution,
> > which we would do anyway
>
> No, for the reasons stated by Christoph, and in the Commons discussion
> cited above. And we would not advise re-users that the attribution is
> mandatory.
>
> --
> Andy Mabbett
> @pigsonthewing
> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>
> _______________________________________________
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> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/glam
>
> _______________________________________________
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> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/glam


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Re: [GLAM] Wellcome Trust CC-BY images

Katie Chan
On 22/01/2014 14:12, Edward Summers wrote:
> d) think about how Wellcome's Wikipedia in Residence [3] could help facilitate the upload
>
> Does that sound like a reasonable way to proceed? If anyone else would like to be on the call let me know. If there is a Commons veteran who has experience with bulk uploading and is willing to work with the Wellcome Trust in a constructive way I’m willing to just tag along on the call and let them take the reigns as it were.
....
> [3] https://cancer-research-uk-jobs.tal.net/vx/appcentre-External/brand-2/candidate/so/pm/1/pl/4/opp/482-Wikipedian-in-Residence/en-GB
>

That post while funded by the Wellcome Trust, is with Cancer Research
UK, and targetted at cancer-related content.

KTC

--
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Any views or opinions presented in this e-mail are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent the view of any organisation the author is associated with or employed by.


Experience is a good school but the fees are high.
      - Heinrich Heine


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Re: [GLAM] Wellcome Trust CC-BY images

Ed Summers
Yes, I saw that, but thought perhaps they would be interested. I wanted to at least float the idea.

//Ed

On Jan 22, 2014, at 9:47 AM, Katie Chan <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 22/01/2014 14:12, Edward Summers wrote:
>> d) think about how Wellcome's Wikipedia in Residence [3] could help facilitate the upload
>>
>> Does that sound like a reasonable way to proceed? If anyone else would like to be on the call let me know. If there is a Commons veteran who has experience with bulk uploading and is willing to work with the Wellcome Trust in a constructive way I’m willing to just tag along on the call and let them take the reigns as it were.
> ....
>> [3] https://cancer-research-uk-jobs.tal.net/vx/appcentre-External/brand-2/candidate/so/pm/1/pl/4/opp/482-Wikipedian-in-Residence/en-GB
>>
>
> That post while funded by the Wellcome Trust, is with Cancer Research UK, and targetted at cancer-related content.
>
> KTC
>
> --
> Katie Chan
> Any views or opinions presented in this e-mail are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent the view of any organisation the author is associated with or employed by.
>
>
> Experience is a good school but the fees are high.
>     - Heinrich Heine
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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