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What are the assets of the Foundation, anyway?

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Re: What are the assets of the Foundation, anyway?

George Herbert
On 4/19/07, Alison Wheeler <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Thu, April 19, 2007 11:15, Erik Moeller wrote:
> > On 4/19/07, Alison Wheeler <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> it greatly worries me that the majority
> >> of them have absolutely no idea how to run a business.
> > ...
> >> Please, people, stop the in-fighting
> >
> > I agree with the second part of your message; in-fighting is harmful.
> > Unfortunately the first part of it seems to contribute to more of the
> > same.
>
> Maybe it is because I am actually stating the facts about the present
> distasterous situation instead of supporting the complacency that the
> present Board appear to be all too happy with?

We're now seeing a small trend of new (to me) business type concerns
related to the operation of the Foundation.

Raising the topic area for consideration by a wider audience is
useful.  We don't right now have anything like a coherent picture
presented of what all the detractors feel is wrong.

Could you (plural; Alison, Kelly, anyone else interested) please
coordinate a bit off list and then post us all a combined concerns
report, with high level goal / management technique / structure
concerns and specific business or legal structure, operations, or
whatever tactical concerns?  If you don't all agree then just bundle
them all together, but I've been away from my desk for 7 hrs today and
don't have the bandwidth to engage separately to try and pull together
a coherent picture of all the concerns.

Thank you.


--
-george william herbert
[hidden email]

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Re: Some views with regard to current discussion

Ray Saintonge
In reply to this post by Jan-Bart de Vreede
Jan-Bart de Vreede wrote:

>Ray Saintonge wrote:
>  
>
>>The opinions may be a little raw, and though Florence and Erik may
>>differ significantly, they are at least open enough to let us know their
>>opinions without dancing about in cryptic diplomatic niceties.  It would
>>be of benefit to hear from other board members as well.
>>    
>>
>Hi All,
>
>As a non-elected board member of the Board of Trustees I try to stay out
>community discussions. You have four board members who are doing a very
>good job at this (even if this is not always public). However, recent
>events prompt to at least post a message here explaining my viewpoints
>on certain issues.
>
As the person who asked for input from other board members, let me thank
you for your contribution.  The differences that appear when two very
strong board members seem to be taking opposing positions can make
things look worse than they really are.

>With regards to the current discussion going on Foundation-l between
>board members and Danny as a former employee I can say that I feel it is
>distracting from the really important discussion. In my view the
>community is the most important asset (not the brand, not the content).
>Trying to find a way to run a non-profit entity within the law and
>trying to harness the power that this community has at the same time is
>very important. We do this in order to make sure that the foundation is
>doing the things that the community needs to make the different projects
>prosper.
>
Excellent.  When some others raise alarmist points about the imminent
collapse of the WMF the general membership becomes justifiably worried.  
The risks that have been mentioned do deserve serious consideration, but
not to the point where hastily considered actions dominate what we do.  
The frequent suggestion that the logos and domain names are more
valuable than the community too easily leaves the impression that the
board has lost its direction.  Viewed in strictly monetized terms these
assets are obviously worth more, but there are ways of looking at value
that do not involve money.

>On a different matter I have expressed my opinion that I do not feel
>that former employees should be able to run for an elected board
>position within a year of their departure.
>
>Lets be very clear on this. Although this is my point of view I feel
>that you can only make this kind of decision after elections have just
>taken place. So if Danny feels that he wishes to run he is of course
>free to do so.
>
I agree with this.  Perhaps it could also apply to appointed board
members, and employees could include other persons who have had
significant contracts with WMF.   In short any situation that might give
the impression of a conflict of interest.  The decision should not need
to wait until after the next election as long as it's clear that the
effective date of the provision will be after the election.

>Feel free to mail me privately with your thoughts or post them to this
>public forum. I will probably not be posting a lot of public replies if
>we get into a lot of details. As mentioned before I try to stay out of
>community discussions as this is simply not my role but in this case I
>wanted to make an exception.
>
I perfectly understand this.  Nevertheless, occasional interventions by
less vocal board members can help the rest of us to keep perspective on
the issues of the day.

Ec



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Re: Some views with regard to current discussion

Mark Ryan
In reply to this post by Jan-Bart de Vreede
On 20/04/07, Jan-Bart de Vreede <[hidden email]> wrote:
> 4) Several positions with the foundation office allow people to get a
> lot of exposure within the community as part of their duties. One of the
> unfortunate aspects of elections is that a lot of people simply vote for
> "known" candidates without always considering their plans or vision.
> This means that if a former employee runs for the board, he or she has
> effectively used foundation time and money to build their support, that
> does not seem right.

Extending your logic here just a bit, this would seem to suggest that
current board members should not be able to run in future elections
either, because they have unfairly benefited from their exposure as a
result of this position. Which I don't think would go down too well
with the board members.

~Mark Ryan

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Re: Some views with regard to current discussion

daniwo59
In reply to this post by Jan-Bart de Vreede
 
In a message dated 4/19/2007 4:01:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time,  
[hidden email] writes:

The  sudden departure Danny without a
proper transfer of knowledge, combined  with the start of new employees
and a lot of new things happening make  this an especially trying time
for them.


I do not feel it would be right to answer this entire email, though I do  
find it questionable whether a board member should single out one person, by  
name or insinuation, as somehow ineligible to run for the board. I am hoping I  
misunderstood your email.
 
On the other hand, I want to be clear about this allegation. After my  
departure, I appeared in the office on several occasions and sat with Carolyn to  
relay any information that I had. I went through all of the information on my  
whiteboard, and I gave her each of my files, explaining to her what they  
contained. She was always and is always free to call me with questions. As  Carolyn
will surely agree, I considered her a friend more than just a  colleague, and
will continue to do so. Note that my Rolodex is also in the  office with all
my important phone numbers.
 
Just this morning, long before you sent your email, Carolyn called me  asking
for access to my old work email, which is on Mark Bergsma's personal  server.
I had asked Mark for this in the past, but he was reluctant because of  
privacy concerns. When Carolyn asked, I immediately sent an email to Mark   (at
4/19/2007 9:06:34 AM Eastern Daylight Time) releasing all my emails to  Carolyn
(only).
 
As for fundraising for Wikimania, I agreed to speak with the intern who is  
currently working on it and cleared an entire afternoon to pass on information  
to him. I found it unfortunate that when we met, he told me he had only
twenty  minutes so "make it quick."  I have been working at this and similar  
professions since before that intern was born, and found it insulting both to me  
and to the foundation that hired me for my expertise to think that this  
experience could be condensed into a twenty-minute cheat sheet. However, as I  
explained to Carolyn later that day, I am always available to answer questions  and
share ideas.
 
I regret that you feel this was inadequate and can only hope that other  
employees acted in the same way, with the same sense of responsibility, when  they
left.
 
Danny



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Re: Some views with regard to current discussion

Gerard Meijssen-3
In reply to this post by Mark Ryan
Hoi,
Board members may be re-elected. This is explicit in the rules of this game.
A board member build up his/her initial reputation in their own time and
then got elected. By doing a good job they maintain this reputation.
Therefore their reputation is their own doing. The community value is, that
by selecting a known good board member for a next term in office we have the
option to choose for stability in our organisation.

When you say that it is an advantage to them in an election, damn right, but
it is their community reputation, their reputation as a board member. There
is even a word for someone who is up for re-election: "incumbent" and
incumbents are known to have an advantage. It is good for the system.

Thanks,
    GerardM

On 4/20/07, Mark Ryan <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On 20/04/07, Jan-Bart de Vreede <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > 4) Several positions with the foundation office allow people to get a
> > lot of exposure within the community as part of their duties. One of the
> > unfortunate aspects of elections is that a lot of people simply vote for
> > "known" candidates without always considering their plans or vision.
> > This means that if a former employee runs for the board, he or she has
> > effectively used foundation time and money to build their support, that
> > does not seem right.
>
> Extending your logic here just a bit, this would seem to suggest that
> current board members should not be able to run in future elections
> either, because they have unfairly benefited from their exposure as a
> result of this position. Which I don't think would go down too well
> with the board members.
>
> ~Mark Ryan
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
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Re: Some views with regard to current discussion

Gerard Meijssen-3
In reply to this post by daniwo59
Hoi,
Well again there is more to the story where you paint yourself so rosy...

Let me quote Anthere from an e-mail dated April 1:
"Next step was tuesday morning, one hour way from taking my flight. We were
in Carolyn office. You entered the room and gave Carolyn your resignation
letter. I told you, "please enter the room, close the door and let us talk
together about that". You looked at me in a bland fashion, said nothing,
went out of the room, closed the door and left the office. Carolyn run after
you to ask you what was going on and the only message she brought back is
that we were all crazy. Bottom line: you refused to talk to me when I
proposed that we talk. It is not normal
that you claim I never asked you an explanation, I did and you chose to not
answer."

I will not say that you did not talk to Carolyn, you probably did. But
saying that you were so wonderful in being open and helpful about your
sudden departure is a misrepresentation of the facts. You may have helped
Carolyn who you consider a friend. It is pretty clear that you did not do a
sterling job in reporting to and collaborating with the board (also but not
only) in the April 1 mail. This is also clear in your mail of March 22 where
you write: "That said, at present, I am unwilling to discuss the  reasons
for my resignation from the WMF office team"

The rules allow you to run for the position of board member, you are the
only one who being a former employee indicates that he intends to run for a
position. You are the only one who is already waging a political campaign.
Your campaign is considered to be negative by many people. You are in a
position to do whatever you like within the limits of the law there is even
room for brinkmanship because the WMF wants to spend its money on other
things than a civil suit. The existing board members have to function in
their role and, they are not necessarily in a position to refute your
claims. They also have more to do that humour you.

Having you start a campaign distracts from the business at hand. You abuse
your privileged information by "kiss and tell". To me this is unethical.
Where you are of the opinion that certain things are not correct, that there
is an abuse of donor money, I would say that there is room for discretionary
spending. The extend of which is not for you or me to decide.

Given all this I think you should not run for a board position. I think you
are not qualified. I think you will, once elected, prove to be headstrong
and unable to cooperate with other board members. You have a problem in
accepting authority, when you were to be elected, you would not have
authority as the authority is in the whole of the board. I fear that your
presence on the board would make the board more argumentative, less
cooperative and less effective. I believe strongly that you should desist
and not run for a position.

Thanks,
    GerardM



On 4/20/07, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> In a message dated 4/19/2007 4:01:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> [hidden email] writes:
>
> The  sudden departure Danny without a
> proper transfer of knowledge, combined  with the start of new employees
> and a lot of new things happening make  this an especially trying time
> for them.
>
>
> I do not feel it would be right to answer this entire email, though I do
> find it questionable whether a board member should single out one person,
> by
> name or insinuation, as somehow ineligible to run for the board. I am
> hoping I
> misunderstood your email.
>
> On the other hand, I want to be clear about this allegation. After my
> departure, I appeared in the office on several occasions and sat with
> Carolyn to
> relay any information that I had. I went through all of the information on
> my
> whiteboard, and I gave her each of my files, explaining to her what they
> contained. She was always and is always free to call me with questions.
> As  Carolyn
> will surely agree, I considered her a friend more than just a  colleague,
> and
> will continue to do so. Note that my Rolodex is also in the  office with
> all
> my important phone numbers.
>
> Just this morning, long before you sent your email, Carolyn called
> me  asking
> for access to my old work email, which is on Mark Bergsma's
> personal  server.
> I had asked Mark for this in the past, but he was reluctant because of
> privacy concerns. When Carolyn asked, I immediately sent an email to
> Mark   (at
> 4/19/2007 9:06:34 AM Eastern Daylight Time) releasing all my emails
> to  Carolyn
> (only).
>
> As for fundraising for Wikimania, I agreed to speak with the intern who is
> currently working on it and cleared an entire afternoon to pass on
> information
> to him. I found it unfortunate that when we met, he told me he had only
> twenty  minutes so "make it quick."  I have been working at this and
> similar
> professions since before that intern was born, and found it insulting both
> to me
> and to the foundation that hired me for my expertise to think that this
> experience could be condensed into a twenty-minute cheat sheet. However,
> as I
> explained to Carolyn later that day, I am always available to answer
> questions  and
> share ideas.
>
> I regret that you feel this was inadequate and can only hope that other
> employees acted in the same way, with the same sense of responsibility,
> when  they
> left.
>
> Danny
>
>
>
> ************************************** See what's free at
> http://www.aol.com.
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
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Re: Transparency (was: What are the assets of the Foundation, anyway?)

Birgitte_sb
In reply to this post by Erik Moeller-4

--- Erik Moeller <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I do think we've made some progress in
> becoming more
> participatory:
> - Sandra has opened up the ComCom by creating a
> separate, more
> participatory, open communications group.
> - Internal Wiki / List have a proper access request
> procedure now and
> many new people have been added recently.
>


Considering the question about transparency, have
these things been annouced widely?  I don't remember
ever seeing these items publicized on this list, but I
have stopped reading the list a few times out of
frustration and could have missed them.  Transparency
is crucial problem in my eyes, because lack of
transparency impedes informal communication.  And most
of the problems I have seen here are either caused or
worsened by poor communication.  

I must say that I think Anthere has consistantly
brought better transparency and communication to the
table than any other board members.  She has always
done this since long before she was chair, but she has
done even better at it since becoming chair.  Erik, I
understand your proposal to use blogs, but I must say
your posts are more likely to propose big ideas than
to offer any real communications on active issues.
However you are the most likely speak up in threads
started by other boardmembers and help clarify issues,
which is the only sort of behaivour that will stop the
infighting.  Kat certainly took the lead communicating
about the resolution on media copyrights which does
her great credit as it was hardly a pleasant task.

I will also say that I do not think I have ever seen a
communication from board members outside of those
either given a strong negative response or next to no
response at all.  This list is very effective at
training boardmembers to remain silent.  If everytime
your dog brought his ball to you, you either ignored
him or yelled at him; he would never show you that
ball again.  So it does not surprise me that
transparency and communication remain problems even
after they were a large part of popular platforms in
the last election.


Birgitte SB

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Re: Transparency (was: What are the assets of the Foundation, anyway?)

Erik Moeller-4
On 4/20/07, Birgitte SB <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Considering the question about transparency, have
> these things been annouced widely?

Not really. But consider that, in a perfect world, the Board would be
meeting 4-6 times a year, exchange maybe a hundred emails in that time
period, and write some strategy ("ends") documents on BoardWiki and
Meta. Board members would most frequently participate in their
function as regular community members. This current Board is actually
communicating at about the level that I would expect for official
Board communications, if not more so.  More of this responsibility
needs to be moved to operations -- the VolCo, the future ED, the Com.
Director, and so on.

As for who has done what, please note that the Board typically decides
internally who is going to coordinate a particular process or make
some announcement. So I was picked to lead the discussion about
mission & vision statement, Kat was asked to coordinate the licensing
policy debate, and so forth. The Chair can act more autonomously here,
as doing so is less likely to cause disruption on the Board level.

I think blogs for Board members could have value for larger scale
announcements & communications than these mailing lists permit. They
may also be less likely to cause hair loss, ulcers, rashes, and broken
furniture. ;-)
--
Peace & Love,
Erik

DISCLAIMER: This message does not represent an official position of
the Wikimedia Foundation or its Board of Trustees.

"An old, rigid civilization is reluctantly dying. Something new, open,
free and exciting is waking up." -- Ming the Mechanic

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Re: Transparency (was: What are the assets of the Foundation, anyway?)

Birgitte_sb

--- Erik Moeller <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 4/20/07, Birgitte SB <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
*<previously snipped>

*> I do think we've made some progress in
*> becoming more
*> participatory:
*> - Sandra has opened up the ComCom by creating a
*> separate, more
*> participatory, open communications group.
*> - Internal Wiki / List have a proper access request
*> procedure now and
*> many new people have been added recently.



> > Considering the question about transparency, have
> > these things been annouced widely?
>
> Not really.


Since it hasn't be previously annouced, would you care
to share more information about this progress in
becoming more participatory at this point?  If those
reading is interested in particapating what should
they do?


Birgitte SB

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