What instructors think about teaching with Wikipedia AFTER having tried it?

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What instructors think about teaching with Wikipedia AFTER having tried it?

Piotr Konieczny-2
I am mulling over a new research topic: what researchers think about
teaching with Wikipedia type of assignment AFTER having tried it? AFAIK
we have a lot of papers on how to teach with Wikipedia, some on effects
on students and some about what instructors think about Wikipedia in
general, but correct me if I am wrong, nobody has actually asked
instructors about their experience with it? And from my personal
experience with seeing such projects on Wikipedia, I think there's a lot
of people who try it once and don't come back and well, do we know why
outside educated guesses?

Right now I am just brainstorming this idea, so any thoughts, up to and
including suggestions for what questions to ask, etc. are appreciated.

Also, I am generally conducting solo research, and all my prior papers
on 'teaching with Wikipedia' have been solo authored (and my goal is as
always to turn this research into publishable paper), but if someone
really, really, really would want to join this project because they love
the idea, and would want to be a co-author of the future paper, and/or
present the results at a WikiSym or such that I sadly go to every five
years or so, feel free to send me a private message. No promises, but I
don't bite :)

--
Piotr Konieczny, PhD
http://hanyang.academia.edu/PiotrKonieczny
http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=gdV8_AEAAAAJ
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Piotrus


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Re: What instructors think about teaching with Wikipedia AFTER having tried it?

Juliana Bastos Marques
I can add something to this, from my own experiences and from what
colleagues have told me. Here are some negative feedbacks to the experience
of teaching with Wikipedia. Not in any particular order:

1. Lack of support from the Wikipedia community (reversions, scaring
newbies - depends on the specifics of each language community)
2. Lack of teacher's experience in editing and dealing with the community
(leads to poor management fo issues in 1)
3. Problems with infrastructure in the university
4. Students lacking interest in editing, doing everything in the last
minute and not caring about the outcome after the end of classes.

Piotr, I'm very interested in following your research. I'd love to hear
about studies examining these issues, and how they were/can be overcome.

Greetings,
Juliana

On Fri, Feb 8, 2019 at 4:04 PM Piotr Konieczny <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I am mulling over a new research topic: what researchers think about
> teaching with Wikipedia type of assignment AFTER having tried it? AFAIK
> we have a lot of papers on how to teach with Wikipedia, some on effects
> on students and some about what instructors think about Wikipedia in
> general, but correct me if I am wrong, nobody has actually asked
> instructors about their experience with it? And from my personal
> experience with seeing such projects on Wikipedia, I think there's a lot
> of people who try it once and don't come back and well, do we know why
> outside educated guesses?
>
> Right now I am just brainstorming this idea, so any thoughts, up to and
> including suggestions for what questions to ask, etc. are appreciated.
>
> Also, I am generally conducting solo research, and all my prior papers
> on 'teaching with Wikipedia' have been solo authored (and my goal is as
> always to turn this research into publishable paper), but if someone
> really, really, really would want to join this project because they love
> the idea, and would want to be a co-author of the future paper, and/or
> present the results at a WikiSym or such that I sadly go to every five
> years or so, feel free to send me a private message. No promises, but I
> don't bite :)
>
> --
> Piotr Konieczny, PhD
> http://hanyang.academia.edu/PiotrKonieczny
> http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=gdV8_AEAAAAJ
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Piotrus
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wiki-research-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
>


--
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Re: What instructors think about teaching with Wikipedia AFTER having tried it?

Jonathan Morgan
Piotr,

I think this is an excellent topic, FWIW.

And I bet the Wikipedia Education Program would be interested in the
outcomes of this research. And they might be willing to point you to
potential interview candidates (tho, obviously, they have a strong
US/EnWiki bias, so it wouldn't be the complete picture).

Best,
J

On Fri, Feb 8, 2019 at 8:43 AM Juliana Bastos Marques <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> I can add something to this, from my own experiences and from what
> colleagues have told me. Here are some negative feedbacks to the experience
> of teaching with Wikipedia. Not in any particular order:
>
> 1. Lack of support from the Wikipedia community (reversions, scaring
> newbies - depends on the specifics of each language community)
> 2. Lack of teacher's experience in editing and dealing with the community
> (leads to poor management fo issues in 1)
> 3. Problems with infrastructure in the university
> 4. Students lacking interest in editing, doing everything in the last
> minute and not caring about the outcome after the end of classes.
>
> Piotr, I'm very interested in following your research. I'd love to hear
> about studies examining these issues, and how they were/can be overcome.
>
> Greetings,
> Juliana
>
> On Fri, Feb 8, 2019 at 4:04 PM Piotr Konieczny <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > I am mulling over a new research topic: what researchers think about
> > teaching with Wikipedia type of assignment AFTER having tried it? AFAIK
> > we have a lot of papers on how to teach with Wikipedia, some on effects
> > on students and some about what instructors think about Wikipedia in
> > general, but correct me if I am wrong, nobody has actually asked
> > instructors about their experience with it? And from my personal
> > experience with seeing such projects on Wikipedia, I think there's a lot
> > of people who try it once and don't come back and well, do we know why
> > outside educated guesses?
> >
> > Right now I am just brainstorming this idea, so any thoughts, up to and
> > including suggestions for what questions to ask, etc. are appreciated.
> >
> > Also, I am generally conducting solo research, and all my prior papers
> > on 'teaching with Wikipedia' have been solo authored (and my goal is as
> > always to turn this research into publishable paper), but if someone
> > really, really, really would want to join this project because they love
> > the idea, and would want to be a co-author of the future paper, and/or
> > present the results at a WikiSym or such that I sadly go to every five
> > years or so, feel free to send me a private message. No promises, but I
> > don't bite :)
> >
> > --
> > Piotr Konieczny, PhD
> > http://hanyang.academia.edu/PiotrKonieczny
> > http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=gdV8_AEAAAAJ
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Piotrus
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wiki-research-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
> >
>
>
> --
> www.domusaurea.org
> _______________________________________________
> Wiki-research-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
>


--
Jonathan T. Morgan
Senior Design Researcher
Wikimedia Foundation
User:Jmorgan (WMF) <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Jmorgan_(WMF)>
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Re: What instructors think about teaching with Wikipedia AFTER having tried it?

FULBERT-2
I agree, this would be fascinating research. Having used Wikipedia with a number of my classes and conducted research in related areas, this sound fascinating.

Happy to talk more about it or assist if you need anything.


-----

With Incredulity toward Metanarratives,

Jeffrey Keefer, PhD
User:FULBERT
[hidden email]

> On Feb 8, 2019, at 1:07 PM, Jonathan Morgan <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Piotr,
>
> I think this is an excellent topic, FWIW.
>
> And I bet the Wikipedia Education Program would be interested in the
> outcomes of this research. And they might be willing to point you to
> potential interview candidates (tho, obviously, they have a strong
> US/EnWiki bias, so it wouldn't be the complete picture).
>
> Best,
> J
>
> On Fri, Feb 8, 2019 at 8:43 AM Juliana Bastos Marques <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> I can add something to this, from my own experiences and from what
>> colleagues have told me. Here are some negative feedbacks to the experience
>> of teaching with Wikipedia. Not in any particular order:
>>
>> 1. Lack of support from the Wikipedia community (reversions, scaring
>> newbies - depends on the specifics of each language community)
>> 2. Lack of teacher's experience in editing and dealing with the community
>> (leads to poor management fo issues in 1)
>> 3. Problems with infrastructure in the university
>> 4. Students lacking interest in editing, doing everything in the last
>> minute and not caring about the outcome after the end of classes.
>>
>> Piotr, I'm very interested in following your research. I'd love to hear
>> about studies examining these issues, and how they were/can be overcome.
>>
>> Greetings,
>> Juliana
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 8, 2019 at 4:04 PM Piotr Konieczny <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> I am mulling over a new research topic: what researchers think about
>>> teaching with Wikipedia type of assignment AFTER having tried it? AFAIK
>>> we have a lot of papers on how to teach with Wikipedia, some on effects
>>> on students and some about what instructors think about Wikipedia in
>>> general, but correct me if I am wrong, nobody has actually asked
>>> instructors about their experience with it? And from my personal
>>> experience with seeing such projects on Wikipedia, I think there's a lot
>>> of people who try it once and don't come back and well, do we know why
>>> outside educated guesses?
>>>
>>> Right now I am just brainstorming this idea, so any thoughts, up to and
>>> including suggestions for what questions to ask, etc. are appreciated.
>>>
>>> Also, I am generally conducting solo research, and all my prior papers
>>> on 'teaching with Wikipedia' have been solo authored (and my goal is as
>>> always to turn this research into publishable paper), but if someone
>>> really, really, really would want to join this project because they love
>>> the idea, and would want to be a co-author of the future paper, and/or
>>> present the results at a WikiSym or such that I sadly go to every five
>>> years or so, feel free to send me a private message. No promises, but I
>>> don't bite :)
>>>
>>> --
>>> Piotr Konieczny, PhD
>>> http://hanyang.academia.edu/PiotrKonieczny
>>> http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=gdV8_AEAAAAJ
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Piotrus
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wiki-research-l mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> www.domusaurea.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wiki-research-l mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
>>
>
>
> --
> Jonathan T. Morgan
> Senior Design Researcher
> Wikimedia Foundation
> User:Jmorgan (WMF) <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Jmorgan_(WMF)>
> _______________________________________________
> Wiki-research-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l

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Re: What instructors think about teaching with Wikipedia AFTER having tried it?

Jesús Tramullas
In reply to this post by Piotr Konieczny-2
Dear colleagues:

I work with Wikipedia in classroom since 2015-2016
(https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Proyecto_educativo/WikiDoc,_Universidad_de_Zaragoza).
Of course, I agree with the common problems about this kind of approach...

..but now I'm working on a specific area, asking the students: As new
editor, What do you think about the help pages in Wikipedia? Have you
used them? Are they helpful? Are they readable? Are they understandable?

So, my approach is to analyze the "technical documentation", identify
problems and propose improvements.

Cheers,

Jesús
--
"Investigación básica es lo que hago cuando no sé lo que estoy haciendo."
"Basic research is what I am doing when I don't know what I am doing."
Wernher von Braun (1957)

--#------------------------------------------------------------
Ph.D. Jesús Tramullas
http://tramullas.com
Dept. Ciencias Documentación // Dept. of Information Studies
Universidad de Zaragoza 50009 Zaragoza (España)
------------------------------------------------------------#--

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Re: What instructors think about teaching with Wikipedia AFTER having tried it?

Ziko van Dijk-3
In reply to this post by Jonathan Morgan
Hello,

Most interesting. One of the works I came along for my paper "Wikis im
Unterricht reflektieren und bearbeiten" was this:

O’Donnell, Michael, 2014: Science Writing, Wikis, and Collaborative
Learning. In: Dougherty, Jack/O’Donnell, Tennyson (Hrsg.): *Web Writing:
Why and How for Liberal Arts Teaching and Learning*. University of Michigan
Press/Trinity College ePress edition 2014,
http://epress.trincoll.edu/webwriting/chap-ter/odonnell.

My personal opinion: It may be problematic to use Wikipedia (which is a
working and presentation platform) as a teaching platform. If you want to
use it anyway, the students must be extremely well prepared for this kind
of environment.

Kind regards
Ziko



Am Fr., 8. Feb. 2019 um 19:07 Uhr schrieb Jonathan Morgan <
[hidden email]>:

> Piotr,
>
> I think this is an excellent topic, FWIW.
>
> And I bet the Wikipedia Education Program would be interested in the
> outcomes of this research. And they might be willing to point you to
> potential interview candidates (tho, obviously, they have a strong
> US/EnWiki bias, so it wouldn't be the complete picture).
>
> Best,
> J
>
> On Fri, Feb 8, 2019 at 8:43 AM Juliana Bastos Marques <
> [hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > I can add something to this, from my own experiences and from what
> > colleagues have told me. Here are some negative feedbacks to the
> experience
> > of teaching with Wikipedia. Not in any particular order:
> >
> > 1. Lack of support from the Wikipedia community (reversions, scaring
> > newbies - depends on the specifics of each language community)
> > 2. Lack of teacher's experience in editing and dealing with the community
> > (leads to poor management fo issues in 1)
> > 3. Problems with infrastructure in the university
> > 4. Students lacking interest in editing, doing everything in the last
> > minute and not caring about the outcome after the end of classes.
> >
> > Piotr, I'm very interested in following your research. I'd love to hear
> > about studies examining these issues, and how they were/can be overcome.
> >
> > Greetings,
> > Juliana
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 8, 2019 at 4:04 PM Piotr Konieczny <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > I am mulling over a new research topic: what researchers think about
> > > teaching with Wikipedia type of assignment AFTER having tried it? AFAIK
> > > we have a lot of papers on how to teach with Wikipedia, some on effects
> > > on students and some about what instructors think about Wikipedia in
> > > general, but correct me if I am wrong, nobody has actually asked
> > > instructors about their experience with it? And from my personal
> > > experience with seeing such projects on Wikipedia, I think there's a
> lot
> > > of people who try it once and don't come back and well, do we know why
> > > outside educated guesses?
> > >
> > > Right now I am just brainstorming this idea, so any thoughts, up to and
> > > including suggestions for what questions to ask, etc. are appreciated.
> > >
> > > Also, I am generally conducting solo research, and all my prior papers
> > > on 'teaching with Wikipedia' have been solo authored (and my goal is as
> > > always to turn this research into publishable paper), but if someone
> > > really, really, really would want to join this project because they
> love
> > > the idea, and would want to be a co-author of the future paper, and/or
> > > present the results at a WikiSym or such that I sadly go to every five
> > > years or so, feel free to send me a private message. No promises, but I
> > > don't bite :)
> > >
> > > --
> > > Piotr Konieczny, PhD
> > > http://hanyang.academia.edu/PiotrKonieczny
> > > http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=gdV8_AEAAAAJ
> > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Piotrus
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wiki-research-l mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > www.domusaurea.org
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wiki-research-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
> >
>
>
> --
> Jonathan T. Morgan
> Senior Design Researcher
> Wikimedia Foundation
> User:Jmorgan (WMF) <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Jmorgan_(WMF)>
> _______________________________________________
> Wiki-research-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
>
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Re: What instructors think about teaching with Wikipedia AFTER having tried it?

Juliana Bastos Marques
In reply to this post by Jesús Tramullas
Jesús, I suppose the key to understanding effectiveness of help pages may
have big variations between language projects. As for the help sections on
WP:PT, they are simply overwhelming, and navigating through them can feel
like wandering through the Minotaur's maze.

Juliana

On Sat, Feb 9, 2019 at 10:39 AM Jesús Tramullas <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Dear colleagues:
>
> I work with Wikipedia in classroom since 2015-2016
> (
> https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Proyecto_educativo/WikiDoc,_Universidad_de_Zaragoza).
>
> Of course, I agree with the common problems about this kind of approach...
>
> ..but now I'm working on a specific area, asking the students: As new
> editor, What do you think about the help pages in Wikipedia? Have you
> used them? Are they helpful? Are they readable? Are they understandable?
>
> So, my approach is to analyze the "technical documentation", identify
> problems and propose improvements.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jesús
> --
> "Investigación básica es lo que hago cuando no sé lo que estoy haciendo."
> "Basic research is what I am doing when I don't know what I am doing."
> Wernher von Braun (1957)
>
> --#------------------------------------------------------------
> Ph.D. Jesús Tramullas
> http://tramullas.com
> Dept. Ciencias Documentación // Dept. of Information Studies
> Universidad de Zaragoza 50009 Zaragoza (España)
> ------------------------------------------------------------#--
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wiki-research-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
>


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Re: What instructors think about teaching with Wikipedia AFTER having tried it?

Kerry Raymond
In reply to this post by Jonathan Morgan
I supported a 2nd year Gender Studies course late last year. The lecturer had heard about the Gender Gap in terms of content on Wikipedia and decided that there would be a student assignment in which student could singly or in a group write or expand a Wikipedia article. The lecturer had broken the assignment down into a number of tasks to be completed by various dates, which were roughly. 1. Pick a topic and explain why you chose it. 2. Write an essay about the topic with citations  3. Write/expand the Wikipedia article.

The lecturer had no personal experience at contributing to Wikipedia, but assumed it would not be hard to do as it's the "encyclopedia anyone can edit" but was wondering if there needed to be a session to teach the students how  to contribute to Wikipedia. By sheer chance the lecturer happened to be chatting with one of the university librarians and mentioned this Wikipedia assignment and that librarian happened to have done Wikipedia training at UQ for groups of librarians and suggested that I might be contacted to do the Wikipedia training.

So I did a Wikipedia training session with the students (because of the timetabling it was not possible to do  hands-on training but I figured, rightly, undergraduates would pick on the "how to" with the Visual Editors just with a presentation) but also addressed the policy side of Wikipedia (of which the lecturer was completely unaware). This occurred before they had to submit their essays so I got to talk about writing a good lede in advance of them doing it (for those planning a new article). I also attend the "edit-a-thon" afternoon where the student actually created or expanded the Wikipedia articles (mostly copying and pasting their essay text but of course had to re-do their citations in Wikipedia format) where I dealit with all the usual event problems (people who did not create their account sufficiently in advance, 6 user limit, shifting new articles that were created as Draft into mainspace etc).  The outcome was that the lecturer and students were all happy at the end of the afternoon, feeling that there had been some "real" achievement from the assignment.  The articles were not too bad (I kept them on my watchlist and all have survived and in some cases have been expanded further by others). I did a bit of MoS tidying afterwards of course and, as photos had not been part of the assignment, I also found and added some photos where I could. About the worst thing that happened was a "essay" tag on one of them.

Like a number of edit-a-thons where I have been parachuted in mid-process, there is no doubt in my mind that having an experienced Wikipedian in the loop helps a lot as the known risks can be managed. I find undergraduate students (who are mostly young and digitally-savvy) take to the Visual Editor very easily (I gave them a one-page cheat sheet and most were fine with that, generally seeking "how to " help only to do some complex things they could see in other articles, "how do I make a table of contents" being the most common). When we hit the 6 new account limit on one IP address, they quickly grasped my explanation of what the problem was and that they should create their accounts from their phones via their mobile data not the Wifi (older people don't grasp this as easily in my experience). One student choosing to use her USB mobile dongle as an alternative. There were some middle-aged and older people in the group who tended to ask more "how to " questions but, on the flip side, had generally followed my early advice about creating their account in advance and practicing on their user page (so all were autoconfirmed users and didn't have those problems).

However, I can see that without an experienced Wikipedian in the loop that things could have gone very badly. And this is the problem for me. I can generally help out IF I know about the plan in the first place.

As you might have seen in Signpost recently, there was some upset over a proposed experiment over giving out random barnstars. As I commented there, instead of all the wailing and gnashing of teeth that goes on in the Wikipedia community about such things, we would be much better served if we tried to find a way to communicate with universities about both edit-a-thons and research projects and provide them with some entrypoints into our community so we could help them with such things to everyone's mutual benefit. Relying on serendipity and personal contacts (which is how things currently work) isn't an ideal solution.

Kerry



-----Original Message-----
From: Wiki-research-l [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jonathan Morgan
Sent: Saturday, 9 February 2019 4:07 AM
To: Research into Wikimedia content and communities <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Wiki-research-l] What instructors think about teaching with Wikipedia AFTER having tried it?

Piotr,

I think this is an excellent topic, FWIW.

And I bet the Wikipedia Education Program would be interested in the outcomes of this research. And they might be willing to point you to potential interview candidates (tho, obviously, they have a strong US/EnWiki bias, so it wouldn't be the complete picture).

Best,
J

On Fri, Feb 8, 2019 at 8:43 AM Juliana Bastos Marques <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> I can add something to this, from my own experiences and from what
> colleagues have told me. Here are some negative feedbacks to the
> experience of teaching with Wikipedia. Not in any particular order:
>
> 1. Lack of support from the Wikipedia community (reversions, scaring
> newbies - depends on the specifics of each language community) 2. Lack
> of teacher's experience in editing and dealing with the community
> (leads to poor management fo issues in 1) 3. Problems with
> infrastructure in the university 4. Students lacking interest in
> editing, doing everything in the last minute and not caring about the
> outcome after the end of classes.
>
> Piotr, I'm very interested in following your research. I'd love to
> hear about studies examining these issues, and how they were/can be overcome.
>
> Greetings,
> Juliana
>
> On Fri, Feb 8, 2019 at 4:04 PM Piotr Konieczny <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > I am mulling over a new research topic: what researchers think about
> > teaching with Wikipedia type of assignment AFTER having tried it?
> > AFAIK we have a lot of papers on how to teach with Wikipedia, some
> > on effects on students and some about what instructors think about
> > Wikipedia in general, but correct me if I am wrong, nobody has
> > actually asked instructors about their experience with it? And from
> > my personal experience with seeing such projects on Wikipedia, I
> > think there's a lot of people who try it once and don't come back
> > and well, do we know why outside educated guesses?
> >
> > Right now I am just brainstorming this idea, so any thoughts, up to
> > and including suggestions for what questions to ask, etc. are appreciated.
> >
> > Also, I am generally conducting solo research, and all my prior
> > papers on 'teaching with Wikipedia' have been solo authored (and my
> > goal is as always to turn this research into publishable paper), but
> > if someone really, really, really would want to join this project
> > because they love the idea, and would want to be a co-author of the
> > future paper, and/or present the results at a WikiSym or such that I
> > sadly go to every five years or so, feel free to send me a private
> > message. No promises, but I don't bite :)
> >
> > --
> > Piotr Konieczny, PhD
> > http://hanyang.academia.edu/PiotrKonieczny
> > http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=gdV8_AEAAAAJ
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Piotrus
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wiki-research-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
> >
>
>
> --
> www.domusaurea.org
> _______________________________________________
> Wiki-research-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
>


--
Jonathan T. Morgan
Senior Design Researcher
Wikimedia Foundation
User:Jmorgan (WMF) <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Jmorgan_(WMF)>
_______________________________________________
Wiki-research-l mailing list
[hidden email]
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Re: What instructors think about teaching with Wikipedia AFTER having tried it?

Kerry Raymond
In reply to this post by Jesús Tramullas
Young people in particular don't tend to look for Help or Instructions. They tend to just jump in. They are more likely to want "live chat" help when they are in the midst of their problem.

Kerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Wiki-research-l [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jesús Tramullas
Sent: Saturday, 9 February 2019 8:39 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Wiki-research-l] What instructors think about teaching with Wikipedia AFTER having tried it?

Dear colleagues:

I work with Wikipedia in classroom since 2015-2016 (https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Proyecto_educativo/WikiDoc,_Universidad_de_Zaragoza).
Of course, I agree with the common problems about this kind of approach...

..but now I'm working on a specific area, asking the students: As new editor, What do you think about the help pages in Wikipedia? Have you used them? Are they helpful? Are they readable? Are they understandable?

So, my approach is to analyze the "technical documentation", identify problems and propose improvements.

Cheers,

Jesús
--
"Investigación básica es lo que hago cuando no sé lo que estoy haciendo."
"Basic research is what I am doing when I don't know what I am doing."
Wernher von Braun (1957)

--#------------------------------------------------------------
Ph.D. Jesús Tramullas
http://tramullas.com
Dept. Ciencias Documentación // Dept. of Information Studies Universidad de Zaragoza 50009 Zaragoza (España)
------------------------------------------------------------#--

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Re: What instructors think about teaching with Wikipedia AFTER having tried it?

WereSpielChequers-2
Different people have different favoured learning styles. Some will copy others, some will ask others, and some actually go and read the instructions. Presumably some pay attention to lectures.

In order to make Wikipedia open to all goodfaith editors it is helpful to support all learning styles. That means encouraging use of meaningful edit summaries to make it easier to learn by copying others, running wiki surgeries and informal meetups so people can ask each other how to fix things, making the help pages clear comprehensive and up to date, and yes having lectures available to attend or watch on the internet.

Those of us who favour some learning styles over others would do well to try and remember that others may favour different learning styles. And when I fall asleep in a lecture it is probably time for a live example, or a nudge from my neighbour.

Jonathan

Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>

________________________________
From: Wiki-research-l <[hidden email]> on behalf of Kerry Raymond <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2019 2:20 am
To: 'Research into Wikimedia content and communities'
Subject: Re: [Wiki-research-l] What instructors think about teaching with Wikipedia AFTER having tried it?

Young people in particular don't tend to look for Help or Instructions. They tend to just jump in. They are more likely to want "live chat" help when they are in the midst of their problem.

Kerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Wiki-research-l [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jesús Tramullas
Sent: Saturday, 9 February 2019 8:39 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Wiki-research-l] What instructors think about teaching with Wikipedia AFTER having tried it?

Dear colleagues:

I work with Wikipedia in classroom since 2015-2016 (https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Proyecto_educativo/WikiDoc,_Universidad_de_Zaragoza).
Of course, I agree with the common problems about this kind of approach...

..but now I'm working on a specific area, asking the students: As new editor, What do you think about the help pages in Wikipedia? Have you used them? Are they helpful? Are they readable? Are they understandable?

So, my approach is to analyze the "technical documentation", identify problems and propose improvements.

Cheers,

Jesús
--
"Investigación básica es lo que hago cuando no sé lo que estoy haciendo."
"Basic research is what I am doing when I don't know what I am doing."
Wernher von Braun (1957)

--#------------------------------------------------------------
Ph.D. Jesús Tramullas
http://tramullas.com
Dept. Ciencias Documentación // Dept. of Information Studies Universidad de Zaragoza 50009 Zaragoza (España)
------------------------------------------------------------#--

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Re: What instructors think about teaching with Wikipedia AFTER having tried it?

Piotr Konieczny-2
In reply to this post by Kerry Raymond
Thank you for the very detailed story!

I don't know about US/Canada(?) where Wiki Edu operates, but recently I
heard the explanation for why there is almost no outreach to
universities in Poland despite (occasional) interest from the
universities themselves: no funds / will  to hire a dedicated person for
this, and the current salaried staff of the Polish chapter does not have
sufficient time to answer all requests.

--

Piotr Konieczny, PhD
http://hanyang.academia.edu/PiotrKonieczny
http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=gdV8_AEAAAAJ
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Piotrus

On 2/10/2019 3:16 AM, Kerry Raymond wrote:

> I supported a 2nd year Gender Studies course late last year. The lecturer had heard about the Gender Gap in terms of content on Wikipedia and decided that there would be a student assignment in which student could singly or in a group write or expand a Wikipedia article. The lecturer had broken the assignment down into a number of tasks to be completed by various dates, which were roughly. 1. Pick a topic and explain why you chose it. 2. Write an essay about the topic with citations  3. Write/expand the Wikipedia article.
>
> The lecturer had no personal experience at contributing to Wikipedia, but assumed it would not be hard to do as it's the "encyclopedia anyone can edit" but was wondering if there needed to be a session to teach the students how  to contribute to Wikipedia. By sheer chance the lecturer happened to be chatting with one of the university librarians and mentioned this Wikipedia assignment and that librarian happened to have done Wikipedia training at UQ for groups of librarians and suggested that I might be contacted to do the Wikipedia training.
>
> So I did a Wikipedia training session with the students (because of the timetabling it was not possible to do  hands-on training but I figured, rightly, undergraduates would pick on the "how to" with the Visual Editors just with a presentation) but also addressed the policy side of Wikipedia (of which the lecturer was completely unaware). This occurred before they had to submit their essays so I got to talk about writing a good lede in advance of them doing it (for those planning a new article). I also attend the "edit-a-thon" afternoon where the student actually created or expanded the Wikipedia articles (mostly copying and pasting their essay text but of course had to re-do their citations in Wikipedia format) where I dealit with all the usual event problems (people who did not create their account sufficiently in advance, 6 user limit, shifting new articles that were created as Draft into mainspace etc).  The outcome was that the lecturer and students were all happy at the end of the afternoon, feeling that there had been some "real" achievement from the assignment.  The articles were not too bad (I kept them on my watchlist and all have survived and in some cases have been expanded further by others). I did a bit of MoS tidying afterwards of course and, as photos had not been part of the assignment, I also found and added some photos where I could. About the worst thing that happened was a "essay" tag on one of them.
>
> Like a number of edit-a-thons where I have been parachuted in mid-process, there is no doubt in my mind that having an experienced Wikipedian in the loop helps a lot as the known risks can be managed. I find undergraduate students (who are mostly young and digitally-savvy) take to the Visual Editor very easily (I gave them a one-page cheat sheet and most were fine with that, generally seeking "how to " help only to do some complex things they could see in other articles, "how do I make a table of contents" being the most common). When we hit the 6 new account limit on one IP address, they quickly grasped my explanation of what the problem was and that they should create their accounts from their phones via their mobile data not the Wifi (older people don't grasp this as easily in my experience). One student choosing to use her USB mobile dongle as an alternative. There were some middle-aged and older people in the group who tended to ask more "how to " questions but, on the flip side, had generally followed my early advice about creating their account in advance and practicing on their user page (so all were autoconfirmed users and didn't have those problems).
>
> However, I can see that without an experienced Wikipedian in the loop that things could have gone very badly. And this is the problem for me. I can generally help out IF I know about the plan in the first place.
>
> As you might have seen in Signpost recently, there was some upset over a proposed experiment over giving out random barnstars. As I commented there, instead of all the wailing and gnashing of teeth that goes on in the Wikipedia community about such things, we would be much better served if we tried to find a way to communicate with universities about both edit-a-thons and research projects and provide them with some entrypoints into our community so we could help them with such things to everyone's mutual benefit. Relying on serendipity and personal contacts (which is how things currently work) isn't an ideal solution.
>
> Kerry
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wiki-research-l [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jonathan Morgan
> Sent: Saturday, 9 February 2019 4:07 AM
> To: Research into Wikimedia content and communities <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Wiki-research-l] What instructors think about teaching with Wikipedia AFTER having tried it?
>
> Piotr,
>
> I think this is an excellent topic, FWIW.
>
> And I bet the Wikipedia Education Program would be interested in the outcomes of this research. And they might be willing to point you to potential interview candidates (tho, obviously, they have a strong US/EnWiki bias, so it wouldn't be the complete picture).
>
> Best,
> J
>
> On Fri, Feb 8, 2019 at 8:43 AM Juliana Bastos Marques <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> I can add something to this, from my own experiences and from what
>> colleagues have told me. Here are some negative feedbacks to the
>> experience of teaching with Wikipedia. Not in any particular order:
>>
>> 1. Lack of support from the Wikipedia community (reversions, scaring
>> newbies - depends on the specifics of each language community) 2. Lack
>> of teacher's experience in editing and dealing with the community
>> (leads to poor management fo issues in 1) 3. Problems with
>> infrastructure in the university 4. Students lacking interest in
>> editing, doing everything in the last minute and not caring about the
>> outcome after the end of classes.
>>
>> Piotr, I'm very interested in following your research. I'd love to
>> hear about studies examining these issues, and how they were/can be overcome.
>>
>> Greetings,
>> Juliana
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 8, 2019 at 4:04 PM Piotr Konieczny <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> I am mulling over a new research topic: what researchers think about
>>> teaching with Wikipedia type of assignment AFTER having tried it?
>>> AFAIK we have a lot of papers on how to teach with Wikipedia, some
>>> on effects on students and some about what instructors think about
>>> Wikipedia in general, but correct me if I am wrong, nobody has
>>> actually asked instructors about their experience with it? And from
>>> my personal experience with seeing such projects on Wikipedia, I
>>> think there's a lot of people who try it once and don't come back
>>> and well, do we know why outside educated guesses?
>>>
>>> Right now I am just brainstorming this idea, so any thoughts, up to
>>> and including suggestions for what questions to ask, etc. are appreciated.
>>>
>>> Also, I am generally conducting solo research, and all my prior
>>> papers on 'teaching with Wikipedia' have been solo authored (and my
>>> goal is as always to turn this research into publishable paper), but
>>> if someone really, really, really would want to join this project
>>> because they love the idea, and would want to be a co-author of the
>>> future paper, and/or present the results at a WikiSym or such that I
>>> sadly go to every five years or so, feel free to send me a private
>>> message. No promises, but I don't bite :)
>>>
>>> --
>>> Piotr Konieczny, PhD
>>> http://hanyang.academia.edu/PiotrKonieczny
>>> http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=gdV8_AEAAAAJ
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Piotrus
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wiki-research-l mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
>>>
>>
>> --
>> www.domusaurea.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wiki-research-l mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
>>
>
> --
> Jonathan T. Morgan
> Senior Design Researcher
> Wikimedia Foundation
> User:Jmorgan (WMF) <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Jmorgan_(WMF)>
> _______________________________________________
> Wiki-research-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wiki-research-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
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Re: What instructors think about teaching with Wikipedia AFTER having tried it?

Kerry Raymond
I do it as a volunteer. There are no salaried staff at Wikimedia Australia.

Kerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Wiki-research-l [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Piotr Konieczny
Sent: Monday, 11 February 2019 1:20 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Wiki-research-l] What instructors think about teaching with Wikipedia AFTER having tried it?

Thank you for the very detailed story!

I don't know about US/Canada(?) where Wiki Edu operates, but recently I heard the explanation for why there is almost no outreach to universities in Poland despite (occasional) interest from the universities themselves: no funds / will  to hire a dedicated person for this, and the current salaried staff of the Polish chapter does not have sufficient time to answer all requests.

--

Piotr Konieczny, PhD
http://hanyang.academia.edu/PiotrKonieczny
http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=gdV8_AEAAAAJ
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Piotrus

On 2/10/2019 3:16 AM, Kerry Raymond wrote:

> I supported a 2nd year Gender Studies course late last year. The lecturer had heard about the Gender Gap in terms of content on Wikipedia and decided that there would be a student assignment in which student could singly or in a group write or expand a Wikipedia article. The lecturer had broken the assignment down into a number of tasks to be completed by various dates, which were roughly. 1. Pick a topic and explain why you chose it. 2. Write an essay about the topic with citations  3. Write/expand the Wikipedia article.
>
> The lecturer had no personal experience at contributing to Wikipedia, but assumed it would not be hard to do as it's the "encyclopedia anyone can edit" but was wondering if there needed to be a session to teach the students how  to contribute to Wikipedia. By sheer chance the lecturer happened to be chatting with one of the university librarians and mentioned this Wikipedia assignment and that librarian happened to have done Wikipedia training at UQ for groups of librarians and suggested that I might be contacted to do the Wikipedia training.
>
> So I did a Wikipedia training session with the students (because of the timetabling it was not possible to do  hands-on training but I figured, rightly, undergraduates would pick on the "how to" with the Visual Editors just with a presentation) but also addressed the policy side of Wikipedia (of which the lecturer was completely unaware). This occurred before they had to submit their essays so I got to talk about writing a good lede in advance of them doing it (for those planning a new article). I also attend the "edit-a-thon" afternoon where the student actually created or expanded the Wikipedia articles (mostly copying and pasting their essay text but of course had to re-do their citations in Wikipedia format) where I dealit with all the usual event problems (people who did not create their account sufficiently in advance, 6 user limit, shifting new articles that were created as Draft into mainspace etc).  The outcome was that the lecturer and students were all happy at the end of the afternoon, feeling that there had been some "real" achievement from the assignment.  The articles were not too bad (I kept them on my watchlist and all have survived and in some cases have been expanded further by others). I did a bit of MoS tidying afterwards of course and, as photos had not been part of the assignment, I also found and added some photos where I could. About the worst thing that happened was a "essay" tag on one of them.
>
> Like a number of edit-a-thons where I have been parachuted in mid-process, there is no doubt in my mind that having an experienced Wikipedian in the loop helps a lot as the known risks can be managed. I find undergraduate students (who are mostly young and digitally-savvy) take to the Visual Editor very easily (I gave them a one-page cheat sheet and most were fine with that, generally seeking "how to " help only to do some complex things they could see in other articles, "how do I make a table of contents" being the most common). When we hit the 6 new account limit on one IP address, they quickly grasped my explanation of what the problem was and that they should create their accounts from their phones via their mobile data not the Wifi (older people don't grasp this as easily in my experience). One student choosing to use her USB mobile dongle as an alternative. There were some middle-aged and older people in the group who tended to ask more "how to " questions but, on the flip side, had generally followed my early advice about creating their account in advance and practicing on their user page (so all were autoconfirmed users and didn't have those problems).
>
> However, I can see that without an experienced Wikipedian in the loop that things could have gone very badly. And this is the problem for me. I can generally help out IF I know about the plan in the first place.
>
> As you might have seen in Signpost recently, there was some upset over a proposed experiment over giving out random barnstars. As I commented there, instead of all the wailing and gnashing of teeth that goes on in the Wikipedia community about such things, we would be much better served if we tried to find a way to communicate with universities about both edit-a-thons and research projects and provide them with some entrypoints into our community so we could help them with such things to everyone's mutual benefit. Relying on serendipity and personal contacts (which is how things currently work) isn't an ideal solution.
>
> Kerry
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wiki-research-l
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
> Jonathan Morgan
> Sent: Saturday, 9 February 2019 4:07 AM
> To: Research into Wikimedia content and communities
> <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Wiki-research-l] What instructors think about teaching with Wikipedia AFTER having tried it?
>
> Piotr,
>
> I think this is an excellent topic, FWIW.
>
> And I bet the Wikipedia Education Program would be interested in the outcomes of this research. And they might be willing to point you to potential interview candidates (tho, obviously, they have a strong US/EnWiki bias, so it wouldn't be the complete picture).
>
> Best,
> J
>
> On Fri, Feb 8, 2019 at 8:43 AM Juliana Bastos Marques
> <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> I can add something to this, from my own experiences and from what
>> colleagues have told me. Here are some negative feedbacks to the
>> experience of teaching with Wikipedia. Not in any particular order:
>>
>> 1. Lack of support from the Wikipedia community (reversions, scaring
>> newbies - depends on the specifics of each language community) 2.
>> Lack of teacher's experience in editing and dealing with the
>> community (leads to poor management fo issues in 1) 3. Problems with
>> infrastructure in the university 4. Students lacking interest in
>> editing, doing everything in the last minute and not caring about the
>> outcome after the end of classes.
>>
>> Piotr, I'm very interested in following your research. I'd love to
>> hear about studies examining these issues, and how they were/can be overcome.
>>
>> Greetings,
>> Juliana
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 8, 2019 at 4:04 PM Piotr Konieczny <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> I am mulling over a new research topic: what researchers think about
>>> teaching with Wikipedia type of assignment AFTER having tried it?
>>> AFAIK we have a lot of papers on how to teach with Wikipedia, some
>>> on effects on students and some about what instructors think about
>>> Wikipedia in general, but correct me if I am wrong, nobody has
>>> actually asked instructors about their experience with it? And from
>>> my personal experience with seeing such projects on Wikipedia, I
>>> think there's a lot of people who try it once and don't come back
>>> and well, do we know why outside educated guesses?
>>>
>>> Right now I am just brainstorming this idea, so any thoughts, up to
>>> and including suggestions for what questions to ask, etc. are appreciated.
>>>
>>> Also, I am generally conducting solo research, and all my prior
>>> papers on 'teaching with Wikipedia' have been solo authored (and my
>>> goal is as always to turn this research into publishable paper), but
>>> if someone really, really, really would want to join this project
>>> because they love the idea, and would want to be a co-author of the
>>> future paper, and/or present the results at a WikiSym or such that I
>>> sadly go to every five years or so, feel free to send me a private
>>> message. No promises, but I don't bite :)
>>>
>>> --
>>> Piotr Konieczny, PhD
>>> http://hanyang.academia.edu/PiotrKonieczny
>>> http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=gdV8_AEAAAAJ
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Piotrus
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wiki-research-l mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
>>>
>>
>> --
>> www.domusaurea.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wiki-research-l mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
>>
>
> --
> Jonathan T. Morgan
> Senior Design Researcher
> Wikimedia Foundation
> User:Jmorgan (WMF)
> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Jmorgan_(WMF)>
> _______________________________________________
> Wiki-research-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wiki-research-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l


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Re: What instructors think about teaching with Wikipedia AFTER having tried it?

Juliana Bastos Marques
I managed to get funding from my university for grants to students, for our
outreach project. This was when the staff went on strike, from May to
December [sic!]. The student was very excited to work and help me, but we
couldn't have access to the computer labs...

Juliana

On Sun, Feb 10, 2019 at 9:36 PM Kerry Raymond <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> I do it as a volunteer. There are no salaried staff at Wikimedia
> Australia.
>
> Kerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wiki-research-l [mailto:[hidden email]]
> On Behalf Of Piotr Konieczny
> Sent: Monday, 11 February 2019 1:20 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Wiki-research-l] What instructors think about teaching with
> Wikipedia AFTER having tried it?
>
> Thank you for the very detailed story!
>
> I don't know about US/Canada(?) where Wiki Edu operates, but recently I
> heard the explanation for why there is almost no outreach to universities
> in Poland despite (occasional) interest from the universities themselves:
> no funds / will  to hire a dedicated person for this, and the current
> salaried staff of the Polish chapter does not have sufficient time to
> answer all requests.
>
> --
>
> Piotr Konieczny, PhD
> http://hanyang.academia.edu/PiotrKonieczny
> http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=gdV8_AEAAAAJ
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Piotrus
>
> On 2/10/2019 3:16 AM, Kerry Raymond wrote:
> > I supported a 2nd year Gender Studies course late last year. The
> lecturer had heard about the Gender Gap in terms of content on Wikipedia
> and decided that there would be a student assignment in which student could
> singly or in a group write or expand a Wikipedia article. The lecturer had
> broken the assignment down into a number of tasks to be completed by
> various dates, which were roughly. 1. Pick a topic and explain why you
> chose it. 2. Write an essay about the topic with citations  3. Write/expand
> the Wikipedia article.
> >
> > The lecturer had no personal experience at contributing to Wikipedia,
> but assumed it would not be hard to do as it's the "encyclopedia anyone can
> edit" but was wondering if there needed to be a session to teach the
> students how  to contribute to Wikipedia. By sheer chance the lecturer
> happened to be chatting with one of the university librarians and mentioned
> this Wikipedia assignment and that librarian happened to have done
> Wikipedia training at UQ for groups of librarians and suggested that I
> might be contacted to do the Wikipedia training.
> >
> > So I did a Wikipedia training session with the students (because of the
> timetabling it was not possible to do  hands-on training but I figured,
> rightly, undergraduates would pick on the "how to" with the Visual Editors
> just with a presentation) but also addressed the policy side of Wikipedia
> (of which the lecturer was completely unaware). This occurred before they
> had to submit their essays so I got to talk about writing a good lede in
> advance of them doing it (for those planning a new article). I also attend
> the "edit-a-thon" afternoon where the student actually created or expanded
> the Wikipedia articles (mostly copying and pasting their essay text but of
> course had to re-do their citations in Wikipedia format) where I dealit
> with all the usual event problems (people who did not create their account
> sufficiently in advance, 6 user limit, shifting new articles that were
> created as Draft into mainspace etc).  The outcome was that the lecturer
> and students were all happy at the end of the afternoon, feeling that there
> had been some "real" achievement from the assignment.  The articles were
> not too bad (I kept them on my watchlist and all have survived and in some
> cases have been expanded further by others). I did a bit of MoS tidying
> afterwards of course and, as photos had not been part of the assignment, I
> also found and added some photos where I could. About the worst thing that
> happened was a "essay" tag on one of them.
> >
> > Like a number of edit-a-thons where I have been parachuted in
> mid-process, there is no doubt in my mind that having an experienced
> Wikipedian in the loop helps a lot as the known risks can be managed. I
> find undergraduate students (who are mostly young and digitally-savvy) take
> to the Visual Editor very easily (I gave them a one-page cheat sheet and
> most were fine with that, generally seeking "how to " help only to do some
> complex things they could see in other articles, "how do I make a table of
> contents" being the most common). When we hit the 6 new account limit on
> one IP address, they quickly grasped my explanation of what the problem was
> and that they should create their accounts from their phones via their
> mobile data not the Wifi (older people don't grasp this as easily in my
> experience). One student choosing to use her USB mobile dongle as an
> alternative. There were some middle-aged and older people in the group who
> tended to ask more "how to " questions but, on the flip side, had generally
> followed my early advice about creating their account in advance and
> practicing on their user page (so all were autoconfirmed users and didn't
> have those problems).
> >
> > However, I can see that without an experienced Wikipedian in the loop
> that things could have gone very badly. And this is the problem for me. I
> can generally help out IF I know about the plan in the first place.
> >
> > As you might have seen in Signpost recently, there was some upset over a
> proposed experiment over giving out random barnstars. As I commented there,
> instead of all the wailing and gnashing of teeth that goes on in the
> Wikipedia community about such things, we would be much better served if we
> tried to find a way to communicate with universities about both
> edit-a-thons and research projects and provide them with some entrypoints
> into our community so we could help them with such things to everyone's
> mutual benefit. Relying on serendipity and personal contacts (which is how
> things currently work) isn't an ideal solution.
> >
> > Kerry
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Wiki-research-l
> > [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
> > Jonathan Morgan
> > Sent: Saturday, 9 February 2019 4:07 AM
> > To: Research into Wikimedia content and communities
> > <[hidden email]>
> > Subject: Re: [Wiki-research-l] What instructors think about teaching
> with Wikipedia AFTER having tried it?
> >
> > Piotr,
> >
> > I think this is an excellent topic, FWIW.
> >
> > And I bet the Wikipedia Education Program would be interested in the
> outcomes of this research. And they might be willing to point you to
> potential interview candidates (tho, obviously, they have a strong
> US/EnWiki bias, so it wouldn't be the complete picture).
> >
> > Best,
> > J
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 8, 2019 at 8:43 AM Juliana Bastos Marques
> > <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> I can add something to this, from my own experiences and from what
> >> colleagues have told me. Here are some negative feedbacks to the
> >> experience of teaching with Wikipedia. Not in any particular order:
> >>
> >> 1. Lack of support from the Wikipedia community (reversions, scaring
> >> newbies - depends on the specifics of each language community) 2.
> >> Lack of teacher's experience in editing and dealing with the
> >> community (leads to poor management fo issues in 1) 3. Problems with
> >> infrastructure in the university 4. Students lacking interest in
> >> editing, doing everything in the last minute and not caring about the
> >> outcome after the end of classes.
> >>
> >> Piotr, I'm very interested in following your research. I'd love to
> >> hear about studies examining these issues, and how they were/can be
> overcome.
> >>
> >> Greetings,
> >> Juliana
> >>
> >> On Fri, Feb 8, 2019 at 4:04 PM Piotr Konieczny <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I am mulling over a new research topic: what researchers think about
> >>> teaching with Wikipedia type of assignment AFTER having tried it?
> >>> AFAIK we have a lot of papers on how to teach with Wikipedia, some
> >>> on effects on students and some about what instructors think about
> >>> Wikipedia in general, but correct me if I am wrong, nobody has
> >>> actually asked instructors about their experience with it? And from
> >>> my personal experience with seeing such projects on Wikipedia, I
> >>> think there's a lot of people who try it once and don't come back
> >>> and well, do we know why outside educated guesses?
> >>>
> >>> Right now I am just brainstorming this idea, so any thoughts, up to
> >>> and including suggestions for what questions to ask, etc. are
> appreciated.
> >>>
> >>> Also, I am generally conducting solo research, and all my prior
> >>> papers on 'teaching with Wikipedia' have been solo authored (and my
> >>> goal is as always to turn this research into publishable paper), but
> >>> if someone really, really, really would want to join this project
> >>> because they love the idea, and would want to be a co-author of the
> >>> future paper, and/or present the results at a WikiSym or such that I
> >>> sadly go to every five years or so, feel free to send me a private
> >>> message. No promises, but I don't bite :)
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Piotr Konieczny, PhD
> >>> http://hanyang.academia.edu/PiotrKonieczny
> >>> http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=gdV8_AEAAAAJ
> >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Piotrus
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Wiki-research-l mailing list
> >>> [hidden email]
> >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
> >>>
> >>
> >> --
> >> www.domusaurea.org
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Wiki-research-l mailing list
> >> [hidden email]
> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
> >>
> >
> > --
> > Jonathan T. Morgan
> > Senior Design Researcher
> > Wikimedia Foundation
> > User:Jmorgan (WMF)
> > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Jmorgan_(WMF)>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wiki-research-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wiki-research-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wiki-research-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wiki-research-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
>


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Re: What instructors think about teaching with Wikipedia AFTER having tried it?

Marshall Miller
Hi everyone --

I'm Marshall Miller; I'm the product manager for the Growth team at the WMF
(https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Growth).  Our team is working on increasing
the retention of new editors in mid-size Wikipedias.  I wanted to chime in
because of the interesting things some of you are saying about what is
working and not working for new editors who are trying to learn.  Our team
is always looking for input and perspectives from all parts of our
community, and I hope that some of you could weigh in on our team's work.

Specifically, we have three projects in flight that we're looking for
guidance on.  Each of these projects is being piloted just in Czech,
Korean, and Vietnamese Wikipedias -- these are communities who have
volunteered to try out some new things.  We're hoping to start some
conversations on the talk pages of any of these projects, and we're looking
for opinions on any part of them, though some specific questions are listed
below.

   - Help panel (https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Growth/Focus_on_help_desk):
   in which we deployed the "help panel" to our pilot wikis so that newcomers
   can get answers to questions while they are editing.  Our main open
   question here is whether it is better to help users to find their answer on
   their own, or to encourage them to make contact with a community member and
   ask for help.
   - Engagement emails (
   https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Growth/Personalized_first_day/Engagement_emails):
   a project that is still being designed that would use email as a way to
   engage newcomers and encourage them to return to the wiki.  Our main open
   question here is how best to use email as a communication vector without
   being yet another annoying presence in a user's inbox.
   - Newcomer homepage (
   https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Growth/Personalized_first_day/Newcomer_homepage):
   a project that is still being designed that gives newcomers a clear
   "starting place" to help them achieve their goals.  Our main open question
   here is where to put the homepage, and how to connect it to the rest of the
   Wikipedia experience.

You can also sign up for our team's monthly newsletter here:
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Growth/Newsletters

Thank you,

Marshall


On Sun, Feb 10, 2019 at 1:39 PM Juliana Bastos Marques <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> I managed to get funding from my university for grants to students, for our
> outreach project. This was when the staff went on strike, from May to
> December [sic!]. The student was very excited to work and help me, but we
> couldn't have access to the computer labs...
>
> Juliana
>
> On Sun, Feb 10, 2019 at 9:36 PM Kerry Raymond <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > I do it as a volunteer. There are no salaried staff at Wikimedia
> > Australia.
> >
> > Kerry
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Wiki-research-l [mailto:
> [hidden email]]
> > On Behalf Of Piotr Konieczny
> > Sent: Monday, 11 February 2019 1:20 AM
> > To: [hidden email]
> > Subject: Re: [Wiki-research-l] What instructors think about teaching with
> > Wikipedia AFTER having tried it?
> >
> > Thank you for the very detailed story!
> >
> > I don't know about US/Canada(?) where Wiki Edu operates, but recently I
> > heard the explanation for why there is almost no outreach to universities
> > in Poland despite (occasional) interest from the universities themselves:
> > no funds / will  to hire a dedicated person for this, and the current
> > salaried staff of the Polish chapter does not have sufficient time to
> > answer all requests.
> >
> > --
> >
> > Piotr Konieczny, PhD
> > http://hanyang.academia.edu/PiotrKonieczny
> > http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=gdV8_AEAAAAJ
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Piotrus
> >
> > On 2/10/2019 3:16 AM, Kerry Raymond wrote:
> > > I supported a 2nd year Gender Studies course late last year. The
> > lecturer had heard about the Gender Gap in terms of content on Wikipedia
> > and decided that there would be a student assignment in which student
> could
> > singly or in a group write or expand a Wikipedia article. The lecturer
> had
> > broken the assignment down into a number of tasks to be completed by
> > various dates, which were roughly. 1. Pick a topic and explain why you
> > chose it. 2. Write an essay about the topic with citations  3.
> Write/expand
> > the Wikipedia article.
> > >
> > > The lecturer had no personal experience at contributing to Wikipedia,
> > but assumed it would not be hard to do as it's the "encyclopedia anyone
> can
> > edit" but was wondering if there needed to be a session to teach the
> > students how  to contribute to Wikipedia. By sheer chance the lecturer
> > happened to be chatting with one of the university librarians and
> mentioned
> > this Wikipedia assignment and that librarian happened to have done
> > Wikipedia training at UQ for groups of librarians and suggested that I
> > might be contacted to do the Wikipedia training.
> > >
> > > So I did a Wikipedia training session with the students (because of the
> > timetabling it was not possible to do  hands-on training but I figured,
> > rightly, undergraduates would pick on the "how to" with the Visual
> Editors
> > just with a presentation) but also addressed the policy side of Wikipedia
> > (of which the lecturer was completely unaware). This occurred before they
> > had to submit their essays so I got to talk about writing a good lede in
> > advance of them doing it (for those planning a new article). I also
> attend
> > the "edit-a-thon" afternoon where the student actually created or
> expanded
> > the Wikipedia articles (mostly copying and pasting their essay text but
> of
> > course had to re-do their citations in Wikipedia format) where I dealit
> > with all the usual event problems (people who did not create their
> account
> > sufficiently in advance, 6 user limit, shifting new articles that were
> > created as Draft into mainspace etc).  The outcome was that the lecturer
> > and students were all happy at the end of the afternoon, feeling that
> there
> > had been some "real" achievement from the assignment.  The articles were
> > not too bad (I kept them on my watchlist and all have survived and in
> some
> > cases have been expanded further by others). I did a bit of MoS tidying
> > afterwards of course and, as photos had not been part of the assignment,
> I
> > also found and added some photos where I could. About the worst thing
> that
> > happened was a "essay" tag on one of them.
> > >
> > > Like a number of edit-a-thons where I have been parachuted in
> > mid-process, there is no doubt in my mind that having an experienced
> > Wikipedian in the loop helps a lot as the known risks can be managed. I
> > find undergraduate students (who are mostly young and digitally-savvy)
> take
> > to the Visual Editor very easily (I gave them a one-page cheat sheet and
> > most were fine with that, generally seeking "how to " help only to do
> some
> > complex things they could see in other articles, "how do I make a table
> of
> > contents" being the most common). When we hit the 6 new account limit on
> > one IP address, they quickly grasped my explanation of what the problem
> was
> > and that they should create their accounts from their phones via their
> > mobile data not the Wifi (older people don't grasp this as easily in my
> > experience). One student choosing to use her USB mobile dongle as an
> > alternative. There were some middle-aged and older people in the group
> who
> > tended to ask more "how to " questions but, on the flip side, had
> generally
> > followed my early advice about creating their account in advance and
> > practicing on their user page (so all were autoconfirmed users and didn't
> > have those problems).
> > >
> > > However, I can see that without an experienced Wikipedian in the loop
> > that things could have gone very badly. And this is the problem for me. I
> > can generally help out IF I know about the plan in the first place.
> > >
> > > As you might have seen in Signpost recently, there was some upset over
> a
> > proposed experiment over giving out random barnstars. As I commented
> there,
> > instead of all the wailing and gnashing of teeth that goes on in the
> > Wikipedia community about such things, we would be much better served if
> we
> > tried to find a way to communicate with universities about both
> > edit-a-thons and research projects and provide them with some entrypoints
> > into our community so we could help them with such things to everyone's
> > mutual benefit. Relying on serendipity and personal contacts (which is
> how
> > things currently work) isn't an ideal solution.
> > >
> > > Kerry
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Wiki-research-l
> > > [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
> > > Jonathan Morgan
> > > Sent: Saturday, 9 February 2019 4:07 AM
> > > To: Research into Wikimedia content and communities
> > > <[hidden email]>
> > > Subject: Re: [Wiki-research-l] What instructors think about teaching
> > with Wikipedia AFTER having tried it?
> > >
> > > Piotr,
> > >
> > > I think this is an excellent topic, FWIW.
> > >
> > > And I bet the Wikipedia Education Program would be interested in the
> > outcomes of this research. And they might be willing to point you to
> > potential interview candidates (tho, obviously, they have a strong
> > US/EnWiki bias, so it wouldn't be the complete picture).
> > >
> > > Best,
> > > J
> > >
> > > On Fri, Feb 8, 2019 at 8:43 AM Juliana Bastos Marques
> > > <[hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> I can add something to this, from my own experiences and from what
> > >> colleagues have told me. Here are some negative feedbacks to the
> > >> experience of teaching with Wikipedia. Not in any particular order:
> > >>
> > >> 1. Lack of support from the Wikipedia community (reversions, scaring
> > >> newbies - depends on the specifics of each language community) 2.
> > >> Lack of teacher's experience in editing and dealing with the
> > >> community (leads to poor management fo issues in 1) 3. Problems with
> > >> infrastructure in the university 4. Students lacking interest in
> > >> editing, doing everything in the last minute and not caring about the
> > >> outcome after the end of classes.
> > >>
> > >> Piotr, I'm very interested in following your research. I'd love to
> > >> hear about studies examining these issues, and how they were/can be
> > overcome.
> > >>
> > >> Greetings,
> > >> Juliana
> > >>
> > >> On Fri, Feb 8, 2019 at 4:04 PM Piotr Konieczny <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> I am mulling over a new research topic: what researchers think about
> > >>> teaching with Wikipedia type of assignment AFTER having tried it?
> > >>> AFAIK we have a lot of papers on how to teach with Wikipedia, some
> > >>> on effects on students and some about what instructors think about
> > >>> Wikipedia in general, but correct me if I am wrong, nobody has
> > >>> actually asked instructors about their experience with it? And from
> > >>> my personal experience with seeing such projects on Wikipedia, I
> > >>> think there's a lot of people who try it once and don't come back
> > >>> and well, do we know why outside educated guesses?
> > >>>
> > >>> Right now I am just brainstorming this idea, so any thoughts, up to
> > >>> and including suggestions for what questions to ask, etc. are
> > appreciated.
> > >>>
> > >>> Also, I am generally conducting solo research, and all my prior
> > >>> papers on 'teaching with Wikipedia' have been solo authored (and my
> > >>> goal is as always to turn this research into publishable paper), but
> > >>> if someone really, really, really would want to join this project
> > >>> because they love the idea, and would want to be a co-author of the
> > >>> future paper, and/or present the results at a WikiSym or such that I
> > >>> sadly go to every five years or so, feel free to send me a private
> > >>> message. No promises, but I don't bite :)
> > >>>
> > >>> --
> > >>> Piotr Konieczny, PhD
> > >>> http://hanyang.academia.edu/PiotrKonieczny
> > >>> http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=gdV8_AEAAAAJ
> > >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Piotrus
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> Wiki-research-l mailing list
> > >>> [hidden email]
> > >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> www.domusaurea.org
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Wiki-research-l mailing list
> > >> [hidden email]
> > >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
> > >>
> > >
> > > --
> > > Jonathan T. Morgan
> > > Senior Design Researcher
> > > Wikimedia Foundation
> > > User:Jmorgan (WMF)
> > > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Jmorgan_(WMF)>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wiki-research-l mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wiki-research-l mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wiki-research-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wiki-research-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
> >
>
>
> --
> www.domusaurea.org
> _______________________________________________
> Wiki-research-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
>


--
Marshall Miller
[hidden email]
_______________________________________________
Wiki-research-l mailing list
[hidden email]
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