What will happen with the Toolserver domain?

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What will happen with the Toolserver domain?

Emilio J. Rodríguez-Posada
Hi all;

I'm not sure if this has been discussed anywhere but, what will happen with the Toolserver domain?

I'm not sure if ALL servers are going to be removed or a basic Apache is going to run in the domain the next years.

Perhaps we can mantain a basic site, with the wiki, and a little museum?

Regards,
emijrp

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Re: What will happen with the Toolserver domain?

Marc-Andre
On 12/25/2013 03:05 PM, Emilio J. Rodríguez-Posada wrote:
> I'm not sure if ALL servers are going to be removed or a basic Apache is
> going to run in the domain the next years.

Last I heard, the plan is to decommission and donate all the hardware.

If WMDE wants, the Foundation can take the domain and keep the redirects
up indefinitely so that old links remain valid.

-- Marc


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Re: What will happen with the Toolserver domain?

Marlen Caemmerer-3
Hello,


On Wed, 25 Dec 2013, Marc A. Pelletier wrote:

>> I'm not sure if ALL servers are going to be removed or a basic Apache is
>> going to run in the domain the next years.
>
> Last I heard, the plan is to decommission and donate all the hardware.
>
> If WMDE wants, the Foundation can take the domain and keep the redirects
> up indefinitely so that old links remain valid.

This is what we planned and why amette implemented the htaccess variant.
You can put it into your home and even if you remove all your stuff with burnbridges the htaccess file will stay there if it has a labs url in it.
WMF can get the files and the domain and host the redirects.

Cheers
  Marlen/nosy

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Re: What will happen with the Toolserver domain?

Manuel Schneider-3
Hi,

Am 25.12.2013 22:45, schrieb Marlen Caemmerer:

> On Wed, 25 Dec 2013, Marc A. Pelletier wrote:

>> Last I heard, the plan is to decommission and donate all the hardware.
>>
>> If WMDE wants, the Foundation can take the domain and keep the redirects
>> up indefinitely so that old links remain valid.

as the domain registrar I may add that this has already been discussed
with me. We are prepared to transfer the domain if needed. But there are
also alternatives:

> This is what we planned and why amette implemented the htaccess variant.
> You can put it into your home and even if you remove all your stuff with
> burnbridges the htaccess file will stay there if it has a labs url in it.
> WMF can get the files and the domain and host the redirects.

We may either keep one simple webserver running and point the old domain
there in order to maintain redirects of the old URLs to the new scripts.
We could also move this late to another server, eg. of Wikimedia CH
which I could provide, so we can decomission the toolserver completely
and save costs and management time while still maintain the redirects.

/Manuel
--
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Lausanne, +41 (21) 34066-22 - www.wikimedia.ch

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Re: What will happen with the Toolserver domain?

Marc-Andre
On 12/25/2013 04:57 PM, Manuel Schneider wrote:
> We may either keep one simple webserver running and point the old domain
> there in order to maintain redirects of the old URLs to the new scripts.
> We could also move this late to another server, eg. of Wikimedia CH
> which I could provide, so we can decomission the toolserver completely
> and save costs and management time while still maintain the redirects.

Either way, the WMF with collaborate with whatever is decided in the end.

-- Marc


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Re: What will happen with the Toolserver domain?

Tim Landscheidt
In reply to this post by Manuel Schneider-3
Manuel Schneider <[hidden email]> wrote:

> [...]

>> This is what we planned and why amette implemented the htaccess variant.
>> You can put it into your home and even if you remove all your stuff with
>> burnbridges the htaccess file will stay there if it has a labs url in it.
>> WMF can get the files and the domain and host the redirects.

> We may either keep one simple webserver running and point the old domain
> there in order to maintain redirects of the old URLs to the new scripts.
> We could also move this late to another server, eg. of Wikimedia CH
> which I could provide, so we can decomission the toolserver completely
> and save costs and management time while still maintain the redirects.

I'm currently working on puppetizing tools-webproxy and the
redirect server is just a few extra lines of configuration.
So no servers outside of Labs are needed.

What would be interesting is a mail forwarder for the exist-
ing toolserver.org addresses as a) WMF may be hesitant to
provide this and b) mails with the senders' assumption on
them being forwarded in Amsterdam instead being relayed in
the US could be the source for endless drama.

Tim


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Re: What will happen with the Toolserver domain?

Manuel Schneider-3
Hi Tim,

Am 25.12.2013 23:14, schrieb Tim Landscheidt:
> What would be interesting is a mail forwarder for the exist-
> ing toolserver.org addresses as a) WMF may be hesitant to
> provide this and b) mails with the senders' assumption on
> them being forwarded in Amsterdam instead being relayed in
> the US could be the source for endless drama.

should be no problem. WMCH is providing this service for its members
anyway already, so it would be just a one-time setup effort, something I
could easily do.

The mail addresses @toolserver.org are all just simple forwarders?


/Manuel
--
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Lausanne, +41 (21) 34066-22 - www.wikimedia.ch

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Re: What will happen with the Toolserver domain?

Dr. Trigon
In reply to this post by Emilio J. Rodríguez-Posada
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I would vote strongly to keep the wiki and also JIRA somewhere
accessible. Both contain a serious amount of history and documentation.

Can that be done?

Greetings
DrTrigon


On 25.12.2013 21:05, Emilio J. Rodríguez-Posada wrote:

> Hi all;
>
> I'm not sure if this has been discussed anywhere but, what will
> happen with the Toolserver domain?
>
> I'm not sure if ALL servers are going to be removed or a basic
> Apache is going to run in the domain the next years.
>
> Perhaps we can mantain a basic site, with the wiki, and a little
> museum?
>
> Regards, emijrp
>
>
> _______________________________________________ Toolserver-l
> mailing list ([hidden email])
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/toolserver-l Posting
> guidelines for this list:
> https://wiki.toolserver.org/view/Mailing_list_etiquette
>

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Re: What will happen with the Toolserver domain?

Marlen Caemmerer-3
Hey,

this would be very easy from the technical side. The host that does this is not part of the cluster but sits in the US.
Still this host needs some sort of maintenance as long as its online so the perspective would probably be to reimport the data somewhere.
Adding Coren so he can keep it in mind.

Cheers
  Marlen/nosy

On Sat, 18 Jan 2014, Dr. Trigon wrote:

> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2014 21:29:27
> From: Dr. Trigon <[hidden email]>
> Reply-To: Wikimedia Toolserver <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Toolserver-l] What will happen with the Toolserver domain?
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> I would vote strongly to keep the wiki and also JIRA somewhere
> accessible. Both contain a serious amount of history and documentation.
>
> Can that be done?
>
> Greetings
> DrTrigon
>
>
> On 25.12.2013 21:05, Emilio J. Rodríguez-Posada wrote:
>> Hi all;
>>
>> I'm not sure if this has been discussed anywhere but, what will
>> happen with the Toolserver domain?
>>
>> I'm not sure if ALL servers are going to be removed or a basic
>> Apache is going to run in the domain the next years.
>>
>> Perhaps we can mantain a basic site, with the wiki, and a little
>> museum?
>>
>> Regards, emijrp
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________ Toolserver-l
>> mailing list ([hidden email])
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/toolserver-l Posting
>> guidelines for this list:
>> https://wiki.toolserver.org/view/Mailing_list_etiquette
>>
>
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>
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> HFQAmwd2pAy8lJiR4mX+Zh/PH3FIuVuk
> =OmfH
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Re: What will happen with the Toolserver domain?

Marc-Andre
In reply to this post by Dr. Trigon
On 01/18/2014 03:29 PM, Dr. Trigon wrote:
> I would vote strongly to keep the wiki and also JIRA somewhere
> accessible. Both contain a serious amount of history and documentation.

There is an issue about both living on non-free platforms we have to
address before that's possible (I very much doubt that we can reasonably
maintain either Jira or Confluence on our infrastructure).

I don't know how /useful/ they would be, but static copies might be
appropriate; or we might need to find some other method by which to keep
those for history.

-- Marc


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Re: What will happen with the Toolserver domain?

Marc-Andre
On 01/18/2014 08:43 PM, Marc A. Pelletier wrote:
> or Confluence on our infrastructure

For some reason, I was convinced that Confluence was used as wiki
software on Toolserver.  Given that this is in fact Mediawiki, keeping a
historical copy for historical reasons is relatively simple and quite okay.

-- Marc



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Re: What will happen with the Toolserver domain?

K. Peachey-2
It was (or attempted) I believe at one stage, which is why you might of had that thought (see, you're not crazy!)


On 19 January 2014 11:54, Marc A. Pelletier <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 01/18/2014 08:43 PM, Marc A. Pelletier wrote:
> or Confluence on our infrastructure

For some reason, I was convinced that Confluence was used as wiki
software on Toolserver.  Given that this is in fact Mediawiki, keeping a
historical copy for historical reasons is relatively simple and quite okay.

-- Marc



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Re: What will happen with the Toolserver domain?

Tim Landscheidt
In reply to this post by Dr. Trigon
(anonymous) wrote:

> I would vote strongly to keep the wiki and also JIRA somewhere
> accessible. Both contain a serious amount of history and documentation.

> Can that be done?

> [...]

These are two very different problems.

AFAICS the wiki can be moved rather easily; your mail trig-
gered me to finally create the bug from my notes written
long ago :-) (cf. https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/60220).
The Toolserver admins need to decouple the wiki from the
Toolserver SSO and dump users and data, the WMF admins need
to set up a (= just another) wiki without CentralAuth
(wmgUseCentralAuth = false IIRC), load users and data, reset
the/mail out new users' passwords and then
wiki.toolserver.org needs to be set as a CNAME for text-lb.

JIRA however is much more complicated.  You know from your
own experience (https://jira.toolserver.org/browse/TS-748
has now been unresolved for over three years) that few of
the Toolserver admins have time and knowledge with regard to
JIRA, while in the WMF camp they have probably zero.  So
compared with MediaWiki where (security) updates will be
regularly deployed with the rest of the cluster, someone
would have to keep a dedicated eye on a totally foreign sys-
tem.  And we only have a free licence from Atlassian which
could at some point be discontinued.  On the other hand the
benefits are very small as Merlijn wrote the fantastic JIRA/
Bugzilla importer which handles almost all cases.

Tim


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Re: What will happen with the Toolserver domain?

Dr. Trigon
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On 19.01.2014 03:21, Tim Landscheidt wrote:

> These are two very different problems.
>
> AFAICS the wiki can be moved rather easily; your mail trig- gered
> me to finally create the bug from my notes written long ago :-)
> (cf. https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/60220). The Toolserver admins
> need to decouple the wiki from the Toolserver SSO and dump users
> and data, the WMF admins need to set up a (= just another) wiki
> without CentralAuth (wmgUseCentralAuth = false IIRC), load users
> and data, reset the/mail out new users' passwords and then
> wiki.toolserver.org needs to be set as a CNAME for text-lb.

That is good to hear! :) Thanks for your effort regarding this.

> JIRA however is much more complicated.  You know from your own
> experience (https://jira.toolserver.org/browse/TS-748 has now been
> unresolved for over three years) that few of the Toolserver admins
> have time and knowledge with regard to JIRA, while in the WMF camp
> they have probably zero.  So compared with MediaWiki where
> (security) updates will be regularly deployed with the rest of the
> cluster, someone would have to keep a dedicated eye on a totally
> foreign sys- tem.  And we only have a free licence from Atlassian
> which could at some point be discontinued.  On the other hand the
> benefits are very small as Merlijn wrote the fantastic JIRA/
> Bugzilla importer which handles almost all cases.

Yes I know those issues... ;) It is/was a pitty...

As far as I know, the JIRA/Bugzilla importer has issues as well,
please confer https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=55673.
It does e.g. NOT preserve relations between tickets and thus
drops a serious amount of the history too. As I understand from
the buzilla ticket this will not be resolved.

In my oppinion 1 of the 2 problems should be tackeled;
* either keep a static copy of JIRA (may be just the DB along with
  a simple viewer written by us)
* or improve JIRA/Bugzilla importer to a point where it can
  migrate relations between tickets and other stuff as well

Thanks for all your comments! Greetings
DrTrigon
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Re: What will happen with the Toolserver domain?

Tim Landscheidt
(anonymous) wrote:

> [...]

>> JIRA however is much more complicated.  You know from your own
>> experience (https://jira.toolserver.org/browse/TS-748 has now been
>> unresolved for over three years) that few of the Toolserver admins
>> have time and knowledge with regard to JIRA, while in the WMF camp
>> they have probably zero.  So compared with MediaWiki where
>> (security) updates will be regularly deployed with the rest of the
>> cluster, someone would have to keep a dedicated eye on a totally
>> foreign sys- tem.  And we only have a free licence from Atlassian
>> which could at some point be discontinued.  On the other hand the
>> benefits are very small as Merlijn wrote the fantastic JIRA/
>> Bugzilla importer which handles almost all cases.

> Yes I know those issues... ;) It is/was a pitty...

> As far as I know, the JIRA/Bugzilla importer has issues as well,
> please confer https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=55673.
> It does e.g. NOT preserve relations between tickets and thus
> drops a serious amount of the history too. As I understand from
> the buzilla ticket this will not be resolved.

> In my oppinion 1 of the 2 problems should be tackeled;
> * either keep a static copy of JIRA (may be just the DB along with
>   a simple viewer written by us)
> * or improve JIRA/Bugzilla importer to a point where it can
>   migrate relations between tickets and other stuff as well

As I wrote last month in
http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.org.wikimedia.toolserver/6450,
you can export an XML dump of your project's issues (you'll
have to download attachments manually (or write a script for
that)).  This contains the links between issues.  You can
then store it in your software's repository or any other
place and convert it to HTML, wiki pages, a book or one of
those bubble movies - the world is your oyster.

Tim


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Re: What will happen with the Toolserver domain?

Dr. Trigon
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On 20.01.2014 17:26, Tim Landscheidt wrote:
>
> As I wrote last month in
> http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.org.wikimedia.toolserver/6450, you
> can export an XML dump of your project's issues (you'll have to
> download attachments manually (or write a script for that)).  This
> contains the links between issues.  You can then store it in your
> software's repository or any other place and convert it to HTML,
> wiki pages, a book or one of those bubble movies - the world is
> your oyster.

Please confer https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=55673#c26

[...]

I have now written an XSLT script - a viewer - that imitates [4], you
can find it at [5]. An Example concerning this bug here is [6]. The
entries can be linked directly as e.g. for DRTRIGON-68 [7] in order to
be easily integrated with the bugs and bugzilla here.

[4]
https://jira.toolserver.org/sr/jira.issueviews:searchrequest-fullcontent/temp/SearchRequest.html?jqlQuery=project+%3D+%22[migrated+to+bugzilla%2C+do+not+use]+DrTrigon%27s+tools%22+OR+summary+~+drtrigon+OR+description+~+drtrigon+OR+comment+~+drtrigon+OR+environment+~+drtrigon+ORDER+BY+key+DESC&tempMax=1000
[5]
http://tools.wmflabs.org/drtrigonbot/cgi-bin/xsalt.py?xslt=jira2html.xslt
[6]
http://tools.wmflabs.org/drtrigonbot/cgi-bin/xsalt.py?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftools.wmflabs.org%2Fdrtrigonbot%2FSearchRequest.xml&xslt=jira2html.xslt
[7]
http://tools.wmflabs.org/drtrigonbot/cgi-bin/xsalt.py?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftools.wmflabs.org%2Fdrtrigonbot%2FSearchRequest.xml&xslt=jira2html.xslt#DRTRIGON-68

At the moment all links are still pointing to TS JIRA as this can
easily be changed after its shutdown. Then it might also be needed to
replace the used icons by other ones from commons e.g.

As mentioned in [1], attachments, patches and the like have to be
downloaded manually if needed. They can then e.g. be added here as well.

Just to make it VERY clear: EVERYBODY (on tool-labs) can use [5] with
their exported xml files from jira. Please enjoy!

Greetings
DrTrigon
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